*Prospective* News/Discussion: Alienware M18x R3

Mr. Fox - a dual e-gpu wouldn't be a performance compromise. You'd still get top end performance but also have a mobile notebook. Since you like to take everything on the road, you could pack up the e-gpu to go with you but the rest of us could elect to leave it at home. They could design the e-gpu enclosure to have excellent cooling + be powered by a separate PSU (maybe 400W) that would satisfy hardcore gamers + those that want mobility alike.

Think about it, AW would be pushing 13", 15" and 17" line of computers that ALL have the same performance using their external gpu solution. That would draw in a lot more customers to the AW brand than they currently have and it would be a coup against their competitors who have nothing like it. Anyhow, I do not think there will be a redesigned M18x, I'm pretty sure svl7 had a conversation with a Dell engineer a while back that confirmed as much.

Edit: One other thing that occurred to me is that MS now has an Xbox program for tablets that interfaces with the 360. Dell could make a deal with MS to port it over to their M13x line of systems with detachable displays. It's just another value added feature they could use.

 

Well, not if you start adding more power-drawing stuff, like 3-way SLI, 6 drives, plus an ODD and desktop CPU. If you read my entire post, it would require about 1000W to power those things. Cutting corners on a PSU and having barely enough is never a good idea. 500W would do awesomely for the current M18x, but to me, more than enough is better. And, the size would not be very much different than what we have now. As I pointed out, an ATX PSU is not much larger.

 

Well are we discussing what is realistically possible or just dreaming? Because AW has never made a desktop CPU based notebook and they never will.

 

Yeah... clevo is the only one around that makes a laptop with a desktop CPU. Its an unportable monster. My phonebook is thinner.

the heat a 6 core desktop CPU puts out just doesn't belong in something trying to by a mobile machine. the clevo is more of a "carryable" machine.

 

Actually, they could go this way and make the Ultimate Mobile Station, say, 20x.. Why not

 

because there isn't a large enough market.
they did a 20 inch station once. It sold so bad they quit after 6 months.

 

I think Dell has power, and has some profit from selling many other systems. Has power I mean to build that killer system, sell and service without financial loss. I imagine top config could be around 10K of money or so.., so not many customers, right, does not correspond with policy. but such a strong brand can afford this to offer. To satisfy some customers and to show that flagship off

 

They made a 20 inch xps once. Was huge. Even had a built in handle. It could have three graphics cards, more than three hard drives oodles of ram, etc... It started at 3000$ and could top out well over 8. They discontinued it because there simply was, and isn't a large enough market for a full dtr like it was to be profitable. Dell is an international multibillion dollar corporation. They put millions into the RND and updating of their products. If they don't see a product pulling its weight and making its RND funding back and then some, they pull the plug it.

They will not be trying it again. The thing came out, and fell on its face in 2010. If they do try a massive dtr again it won't be for several more years when parts are smaller, more power efficient and above all else, more affordable. Intel will help that along because they now have serious competition from ARM, and AMD/nvidia will help to because their position, and the possition of graphics cards makers in general, is threatened by the aggressive increase in processor onboard graphical performance Intel is pushing.

The big issue is that while a 10k laptop would be nice, the higher laptop prices go, the more out of whack they are with desktops in power.

 

I don't like it, but I agree another 18+ inch laptop will not happen again for a long period of time. I own both HDX dragon and M2010 XPS both are amazing laptops too bad theres not enough firepower in these, hardware gets old fast.

 

just a question - why would you need 6 drives? I'd rather wait for SSD technology to become even cheaper and for companies to churn out larger-capacity SSDs at a cheaper price. 6 drives is overkill imo. desktop cpu's are best left for desktops; besides, either in the Haswell iteration or the one after that, I believe desktop cpu's will become soldered as well, gone is the age where the professional consumer is kept in mind - now we're back to the age of "the masses" and of the ignorant consumer. Dell knows about this - it won't spend millions on create an even more heat-efficient chassis to accommodate a desktop CPU just to realise that future CPUs won't be compatible

if I were Dell, I'd go for a redesign of the chassis and encase it wholly in metal or carbon-fibre, or a mix of both. I wouldn't change the winning formula of dual GPUs and extreme mobile processors. also, higher-end screens with a higher colour spectrum and higher resolutions, it's ridiculous that lower-end ,models have better screens than the AW

 

6 drives not entirely for storage, for the speed. 3 or 4 SSDs in raid 0? I would want that kind of performance. why would I stick to 500MB/s when I could go for 1.5gb/s+. I mean, with 6 drives you can choose a bunch of setup, two SSDs in raid 0, and 4 HDD in raid 10, or two sets of 3 SSDs in raid 0 so both operation drive and backup storage are both fast, theres a tons of advantage to this.

Haswell should still be socketed CPU, can't really say for broadwell but I think theres a good chance extreme edition for both notebook/desktop broadwell CPU will likely be socketed because no one would pay 1k+ CPU just because a 300 dollar mobo goes bad.

but really, they only need to give upgradable options in screen type, size, or even a different interior design as an upgrade for better hardware.

 

This thread was made with the intention of seeing what everyone realistically wanted to see. I did not make that clear in the first place, but I also did not anticipate suggestions to become so outrageous.

For example, a realistic feature would be every storage bay is SATA III. Stuff like that - not 6 bays, dual monitors, triple GPU's. Perhaps one day we will see some of that, but the R3 is only half a year away, those things are quite unlikely to be implemented.

 

I had it firmly ingrained in my mind that, after AMD finally gets it together with their drivers and 7970m CF starts working properly I would upgrade my M18xR1 with two 7970m's in CF.
But all this talk of an M18xR3 makes me think it may be better to just sell my M18xR1 and buy an M18xR3 instead..

 

If you want to sell it, now is the time.

 

rather, every storage bay is SATA III is not based on dell, its based on the chipset. doesnt matter if Dell wanted it, if M18x R3 uses 6 series or 7 series chipset, it'll not be all SATA III, which means its not latest chipset, and will not support latest CPU thus we will not buy the system.

we are suggesting these because they have not happened and may not happen, and sure 6 bay sounds completely fine, all msata SATA port, which doesnt take up very much space at all, how is that unrealistic? two 2.5" sata port with rest all msata, I don't see how it's not possible.

 

Do you honestly believe I didn't know this? I never said it was Dell, haha. I only said that is a realistic feature for the R3, at least more so than dual monitors.

And it is unrealistic given the time frame and cost, not unrealistic because it isn't possible to do. Do you honestly believe Alienware would redesign the m18x so drastically that they might as well introduce a whole new system within 12 months? That's absurd, and unrealistic.

There is certain amount of money invested in each design and each design is given a time frame of which this initial investment is supposed to be made up, and profits gathered. It would be a hasty and irrational decision to make such drastic changes to a system like the m18x on only the third revision.

 

Dell somehow stuffed in a msata and changed HDD caddy, it's cable, mediacard and entire mobo, from R1 to R2, thats a lot of changes, I don't see how they can't change again.

a screen change would make it thicker, perhaps the only real problem I can see is provide enough power to it, a 330w PSU will not be enough for next gen's hardware.

 

What does turbo boost have to do with SATA III? You are going off topic in your argument. And I never ever said having a screen upgrade wasn't likely or reasonable - I myself would like this. What I said was that dual monitors is unrealistic compared to having all SATA III for storage.

Do you have trouble reading or understanding what I am saying, haha? Maybe you read them too quickly and jump to conclusions.

 

I think you are onto something here. The M18x can handle games really well, but it's not something you just pop into a back pack and run around with. I also think that a large number of M18x owners keep the M18x at one place for gaming (as in is being treated more like a desktop that can be moved easily rather than a laptop), but I could be wrong. So perhaps one direction Dell/AW can take is something along the lines of what you suggested. Create a sort of split system. A 17 incher that shares some of the switchblades thin and light features (they don't need to go crazy with gimmicks, I think we can live with just a good keyboard and a good trackpad). They can have that be a single mobile GPU system but then create docking stations that become part of the laptop (as in the dock can be moved with the system if you so wish to) and incorporate high end GPUs (desktop or mobile) and/or the optical drive. Then you can just leave the dock at home when you need to take notes for class or go to a coffee shop and only carry the dock with you when you intend to game. There can even be different types of docks for different uses, battery life, professional graphics, monster dual desktop GPU docks, etc.

Just a thought

 

Oh? The M18xR3 hasn't been confirmed yet.. don't want to be left Alienware-less for an indeterminate period of time lol. I tried it once when I sold my M15xR2, I started going crazy.

 

I meant this time of year is good to sell.

 

That kind of fancy gadgetry would be nifty for those that like gadgetry, but would be a gigantic disappointment to me and I would not consider purchasing that kind of product from Alienware or any other company. That would basically force me into having to lug another peripheral device on my trips if I wanted to do serious gaming or benching on the road, and that would really suck.

The point that you and many others that make such comments consistently miss is that it absolutely is something you pop into a back pack and run around with, and because it is, that is one of its biggest selling points. We have already seen multiple threads with posts from M18x owners (and, in fact, a whole bunch of us are out there) that travel with the M18x extensively. I actually have thin and light products available for use when I travel... they collect dust sitting at home because I despise them for anything except web browsing.

So again, size is only a problem for folks that prefer something thin and light versus something that performs extremely well. I think that a large number of us M18x fanboys buy it specifically because it is such an awesome beast that travels very easily wherever we go. If they stop making it, or an equivalent, a large percentage, if not all of us, will move on to another product sold by a competitor that is the closest match in terms of size and performance.

What would be cool, if we are going to see gimmicks, is something like the current M18x with a docking station for 3-way SLI or 3-way CF using flagship desktop GPUs. So, you would lose zero performance and compromise nothing while on the road, but then be able to go off the charts nuts with it connected to a docking station.

I don't care about losing an inch of display area by downgrading to a 17" display. I just don't want to lose the XM CPU overclocking and dual-GPU and anodized aluminum chassis. If I wanted small, thin and light I would be overclocking my Android instead of my Alienware. If they do this, guaranteed, they will lose and not gain business... and I will be among the first to bail on them, even though I am a huge fanboy right now.

 

I understand what you are saying but what I'm suggesting is to create something that, with the dock, is about the size of a current M18x and with the dock can be carried around (like the dock can be made part of the laptop). But also come apart when you just need lightness. I guess I can't see why it would bother you if the size is about the same, has more power (or the same power) and can be made really light and portable if you so want to.

Also, personally, I feel like I'm forced to lug another peripheral device now, with the current M18x because most of the times my M11x has to come with me in addition to the M18x.

I'm also very curious, where do you guys take the M18x all the time (I'm not questioning that you do, I'm just curious)? I move it from home to my lab sometimes when I need some processing power, it goes from my bedroom to the living-room sometimes for big screen gaming and when I move to a new place/apartment (which is every year or so) it becomes easy to pack and carry.

 

It's simple bro. I would hate that. I don't want that. A lot of M18x fans would hate it. Some would like it and I am not saying that either opinion is right or wrong. It is what it is. I don't want a product that offers any compromise whatsoever. That should not be difficult to understand, and I know I am not alone. I already have lightweight options available to me and don't want or need a compromise. Those options will fit comfortably into the same backpack as my M18x. Something that comes apart and transforms into thin and light (lethargic) tablet is going to be more prone to problems and I would never use the product in lethargic mode, LOL. So, it would be useless to me.

I am not saying it would not be nice for them to offer something like that to folks that are interested in it. I just don't want people like me to be left in the cold because of a fad that excludes us and our interests. And, what you are speaking of does so. I want a bulky, metal chassis, XM powered dual-GPU beast. Nothing less, and I don't want it to be a transformer, LOL. It's that simple.

Where does it go? Everywhere. Upstairs, downstairs, across town and across the country. I do not travel internationally, but I travel extensively within the US due to my career, and that takes me from coast-to-coast. And, my M18x is always with me. I carry a separate laptop for work that belongs to my employer. I don't find it to be difficult to manage. The only thing difficult is tolerating the pathetic performance and horribly low 720p display resolution of the T420 that I am required to use for work. If I could have an M18x or a 17" Dell Precision for work, I would take both of them on my trips.

 

the reason I bought the M18x is because I'm lazy. I don't want to spend hours passing and setting up wires and everything in my bedroom to set up a desktop GPU, I don't want to sit in a chair all the time, and I wouldn't want to fiddle with a docking station when all I want to do is sit down/stay in bed, open the lid, turn on the laptop and that's it. there's a reason why people buy laptops and not desktops - let's not try and form some sort of ridiculous hybrid. the only thing I see worth getting out of bed for and doing some exercise are football games 3 times a week... anything else than that is wasted energy haha.

seriously though - let's keep the AW as a gaming laptop and not a literal desktop replacement. I wouldn't think of buying an M18x r3 if it means a sacrifice of power for portability... I have my m11x for portability, suits me great

 

FIne, you don't like it, you don't like it.

This is actually more difficult to understand than you think because you are making the explicit assumption that there will be a compromise which is not definite here. The compromise argument could possibly be valid (or not, we don't know) but then what you are really saying is that you are worried that such designs could lead to poorer performance (or some other issue/compromise). That being said, if there is no compromise then you shouldn't be worried about this particular part, which I'm not sure you would agree with (and thus it's not simple).

So the simple and peaceful summary of your argument would be: I don't trust transforming designs, their complexity could lead to compromises and other problems. In addition, why risk any compromise when I can't see much benefit, at least for me, from a detachable lower power notebook. I don't have much use for it.

Cool!, I agree with that.

 

Assuming there is an R3, it will have the 4th generation intel core i7 processors (code named: Haswell) which use less power and provide better performance, which means there is even more room for overclocking both CPU's and GPU's. This may also mean the 330W power supply will not be replaced by a larger PSU afterall. Is this a good thing? Yes, and no. But I think it is! This means the PSU will have extra unused wattage to support a higher resolution screen running 120Hz, still being able to run dual GPU's (700 series) without substantially effecting overall battery life. The best of both worlds? I think so.

I'm excited and anxious to see what is in store for 2013.

 

Hey Brother Zachari, your summary is correct. It's not really an argument or a debate. It is just a difference in values and I am stating simple facts about what I, and others that share my views, value most in a high performance gaming laptop. I'm very difficult to please when it comes to computers.

Let's circle back on this when it's more than a figment of our imaginations and I will tell you if I am OK with it when I actually see it. Right now, I am extremely skeptical it will meet my standards, but it's not worth burning any calories on it until there is a real example that we can pick apart and see if it turns out to be something good or a piece of trash.

To use an automotive analogy, it will be acceptable to me if...

​

it runs like this...	...or like this...	...not a joke like this
High-Performance Desktop (8000 HP monster)	Alienware M18x (4000 HP beast)	Thin and light compromise (650 HP "child's toy")

...and it still needs to be built like this for me to consider it to be a winner.



It doesn't need switchable graphics or good battery life to make me happy. If I have to give something up, both of those are the first things I am willing to let go. As long as the battery works for roughly an hour it will work well enough as a UPS, I'm good with it.

 

At least the "child's toy" is street legal.

I agree with you though, Mr. Fox. Built like a tank, and powerful as hell.

 

that's the reason I bought the m18x, mobility!

 

Gosh, these conversations are so much fun.

This is street legal, too. And, a whole lot better than the child's toy.

This should be the automotive equivalent of the bare minimum for an M18x R3.

<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/bAE6rp4ant4?version=3&hl=en_US&rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width='640' height="480" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true">

 

That's the right analogy Mr. Fox!:thumbsup:

 

Haha. I like it! American muscle, can't go wrong there.

 

We should create a betting pool to see who comes closest to predicting future AW models. I am almost certain that the time of bulky computers is coming to an end, like it or not, at least by 2014.

Sent from my GT-N7000

 

The time of bulky computers is indeed coming to an end but it will take a few more years after 2014 before we see something real. One of the main compromises is the screen size, there's no way around it. Even for ultraportables, the hot spot is in the 13-14" range and still more and more people find it limiting and inconvenient like netbooks. I have used ultrabooks extensively (MBA's, Carbon X1, etc) and couldn't convert my needs into such a small "form factor". I don't want to give away the versatility and power, don't want to limit my options to what the vendor has decided to be the best for me. I don't want to bend my shoulders and strain my eyes trying to enjoy the mobility + high rez of a 15" (and under) FHD laptop.

The ultrabooks and tablets will perish just as netbooks did (palm pilots anyone? ), another flawed idea, albeit in the right direction. We will truly move away from laptops when interactive holographic screens are perfected and paired with new I\O concepts, such as touchless typing. That of course, would require an insane level of die shrink combined with passive cooling, so instead of lugging around an oversized smartphone, you'd have a couple of tiny bracelets and implants to create a complete user experience. Until then, nah, I'll be happy with 17/18" behemoths

 

the same reason i bought m18x only hoped it'd be bigger. gonna get this m18x backpack to fit my 20inch laptop +m18x, only real problem is if bag would be big enough for both laptop.

@J.Dre haswell could use more power than ivy because of the retarded IGP, although that maybe disabled on alienware because we have dedicated graphics but at least desktop counter part TDP is about 7-8 watts higher. and no, theres no guarantee we have more room to overclock GPU, it'll be based on the card we're getting. it doesnt look like theres more room for any extra copper for any of the GPU heatsink so in the end its all based on the card.

imo if they could somehow reduce battery life/size it'd be great. lose weight, put in extra storage bays. not sure how many of you uses m18x without battery, i never do. although I would at least expect it to have a 15-20mins battery life that way helps during power outage when im in a middle of work/game.

 

The Haswell generation does not consume more power, go read up on it. Unless the four articles I read were wrong, it doesn't use more power. In fact, the articles mentioned 10% power increase on average with up to 20x less power consumption (not sure if this was during use or in an idle state, but I read it). It may have mentioned the 20x during idle states and sleep states, but the articles are informative and describe an overall better CPU because it provides better performance while using less energy.

 

i said it could use more, never said it would. plus more TDP would mean more heat release and that means it probably uses more. again higher TDP could be because of IGP which we dont use in AW anyway but who knows what intel would and could do. and even if it's overall a better CPU, if it uses more power, it uses more even if its more power efficient. btw, its power efficiency mostly came from when idle anyway, during stress it maybe very same.

 

And, it might run hotter even if it is more efficient, just as Ivy Bridge processors run hotter than Sandy Bridge. We will need to wait and see how it works out. Hopefully, at least with the Extreme processor, it will turn out good with a focus almost exclusively on performance rather than energy efficiency and power-saving crap. As long as it can be effectively cooled, it would be nice to see them forget the notion of trying to strike a balance with the Extreme CPU. I'd love to see a mobile CPU that can sustain a 5.5 to 6.0GHz overclock with manageable temps, even if it chews through the battery like a knife through hot butter.

 

agreed! although im happy with just 5.0ghz maybe i need to raise my standards lol. no one really knows until these CPU are out, and tested with provided heatsink in the laptop. until then we could only guess, intel can say w/e they want but true results show when people doing real benchmark and tests in the real world.

 

btw cpu-world has it out. Core i7-4930MX 4 8 3 GHz / 3.9 GHz 8 MB HD 4600 400 MHz / 1350 MHz 57 Watt

2 watt TDP more than ivy not that bad but looks like it will run hotter than ivybridge. http://www.cpu-world.com/news_2012/2012121601_Specifications_of_mobile_Haswell_CPUs.html. even with chipset being cooler, CPU is hotter.. sucks

edit: with how intel do things, probably wait for 4940xm, 50xm or 60xm is out lol

 

In case you missed this. Hint for the upcoming AMD 8000m series GPUs

Retailer leaks next-gen AMD Radeon HD 8000 mobile graphics inside Asus Vivobook

 

AWW MAN was hoping to see some spec on the new AMD mobile GPU. it seems next gen desktop GPU will be quite a boost over current ones, hope this hold true for mobile too, render that 680mx useless LOL

 

if the m18x r3 has an option for 120hz screen, will definitely sell my m17x R4 for that.

 

here it is man, 8000m AMD AMD Radeon HD 8000M series gets detailed, numbers and specs galore :: TweakTown USA Edition

OH YAHH

 

oh no. looks like the low end cards are first....

 

Doesn't seem all that likely. It might not perform as well as 7970M. It is clocked lower than 7970M. Plus, after what we have seen with the 7970M, I would not expect it to work properly and have decent driver support for at least 6 months. After watching all of the 7970M issues here in our forum, some of which remain unresolved even today, are you sure you want to go down that road? Red pill or blue pill, LOL.

 

i have learned to never buy anything fresh, as much as I love new hardware/SSDs even intel CPU I usually wait for half a year but I get you. AMD might not release good driver AT ALL this time around, the issues with 7970m could be just a stroke of luck, big one at that.

wellll, there is one good thing, if you look at the chart for Q2 releases, 8800m is placed on the 3rd row, going up one would and should be 8900, but theres another one above that.. hopefully something like 8990m ? =D

 

Yeah, I hear you. They might release something better. We will have to wait and see. It makes sense to wait sometimes, but it's a balancing act between striking while the iron is hot and procrastination. People speculated that 7990M was going to be even better than 7970M. Some are still waiting for that product to materialize and using yesterday's hardware. Now they have 8870M in the works, and that looks like it might be a performance downgrade compared to what 7970M owners have now.

 

haha yep, for the R1, 6990m wasn't that much better than 6970m, and was still 15% behind 580m. I really don't wish to spend extra 600 on Nvidia cards because of them support Apple with the best mobile cards, curse you apple! but if I think of it this way 680mx is something like the extreme desktop intel CPU, comes way after mainstream performance card and by the time people got it (apple) its almost time for next gen card. with that in mind made me feel better.