*OFFICIAL* Alienware 17 R5 Owner's Lounge

Yeah in my opinion this CPU is even a worse choice compared to a 7700HQ who can keep its clock at 3.4ghz steady without downclocking. Its only nice on paper...

 

Well, an extra +-250$ for a CPU which can theoretically hold those clocks ... not sure you can call that a better choice.
We still don't know much about this Intel Turbo Boost 2.0, and we don't even know if the 17R5 cooling system can handle it.
Until now, the only thing I saw was a 17R5 repasted with Kryonaut throttling back to 800MHz and reaching 99°C in-game.
IMO, Dell should've at least listed the 8850H as a possible choice.

 

8850H base clock is 2.2 ghz. Exceed TDP after 28 seconds and you're running at 2.2 ghz. We will see if it will be easier for an 8850H to maintain its 6 core turbo multiplier than a 7700HQ, or if you will have to undervolt it to stop it from throttling to 2.2 ghz from TDP limit.

The 8950HK is just a 6 core 7820HK. Technically since the 8950HK comes from the same dies as the 8700K, just failed LGA bins mean they are worse quality, it should have higher maximum overclocks slightly than 7850HK, if you can keep it cool. And most likely you won't be able to.

 

The thermal velocity boost can be disabled in advanced bios menus completely, making it identical to a 6 core 7820HK. But accessing those menus can be a problem. One TVP option has to be disabled already just to allow manual multiplier adjustment higher than max turbo multiplier.

 

Intel doesn’t inform about all cores Turbo boost anymore. Only max boost and base clocks for ALL their chips. Mentioned everywhere on the web last year when they pushed out their new HEDT processors.

You pay the extra for the new Intel feature “ Thermal Velocity Boost (TVB)”.

 

Thanks @Papusan , I couldn't find this ! I was looking for "Terminal Velocity Boost"

 

Yeah, Intel use nice language for this brand new ‘mobile” i9 BGA Scammers feature.

 

it is really necessary to spam every new thread with your ,,i dont like BGA,, posts? Everyone knows that u dont like BGA... but not all of us want a bulky, plastic clevo so buy your clevo... thats ok... and let us buy BGA Notebooks ok? Nobody forces you to buy the new alienwares

 

Thats the problem with intel, also for their desktop cpu's by the way. Problem of having no competitor on the market. Amd isnt pushing enough.

 

I have gone ahead and ordered an Alienware 17 R5 with i9-8950HK, UHD, 32GB 2666MHz, and the GTX 1080. Expecting it next month, although was ordered 10 days ago.

However I am now considering pros and cons:

1)
Cons: It is a brand new design - it may have faults that need ironing out and it's never clever to buy version 1.0 of anything.
Pros: On the other hand it is not really a new design, it is R5 and there have been many improvements to the previous versions.

2)
Cons: The Intel CPUs are new and untested inside the laptop frames
Pros: But they have been tested in other chassis so not really "untested" as such

3)
Cons: the GTX-1080 is powerful but a bit "old" now - is a new series just around the corner? And will the Geforce 10 series prices drop as soon as the announcement is made?
Pros: the 1080 is very powerful and should offer me a few years of gaming, considering my current laptop uses the GTX-970M and was purchased in 2014.

4)
Cons: Have Dell botched it with the new cooling fans and tech and will the laptop run hot (and throttle) ?
Pros: Got to have faith in Dell not having made a terrible design mistake and trust in the warranty to return it if it keeps throttling under "normal" use. Like games. It is a Gaming laptop after all.

 

Thats the point. As long as the 8950HK can hold an decent boost under normal gaming and rendering, everything is fine for me. Prime95+Furmark is not the benchmark for me

 

They are not the benchmark for 90% of people, BUT knowing your machine can withstand those tests with flying colors mean that you probably never have to worry.

Nothing wrong in preparing for the worse IMO.

 

I would cancel the order because as you have gone 4k the gpu will be the limiting factor. 7820hk is still a capable cpu.

I’d order 1 off the outlet with 4k GSYNC and 7820hk ( I have 1 ) and love the colours of the AUO panel. Few good deals on the outlet now given the r5 has launched.

And later versions (post nov 17) have the 2nd or 4th revision motherboard (very less likely to have heat issues).

And yes the gtx1180 is round the corner (august 18) ...

 

My current, 4 year old laptop, rests permanently on a cooling base, I presume a proper test should be contacted on a good quality cooling base ?

 

Tests should be done in the conditions the laptop will usually be, for the average user.

In your case, if the laptop is 24/7 on a cooling base do your tests on said base.

No points in doing test in an extreme environment if the laptop won't be.

 

Too late to cancel now, they have sent me a "has been shipped" email... However you only live once, so what the h*ll, let's have it anyway!


The below is what I could get second hand, very tempting!

Alienware 17 - R4 Windows 10 Pro (64bit) Unit Price £2,281.03

Alienware 17 - R4 88C6N
Killer 1535 802.11ac 2x2 WiFi and Bluetooth 4.1 08Y8M
1 TB SATA Hard Drive (7200 RPM) 0DM40
Software 0P1H1
Info Mod 1222K
Power Supply : 330W AC Adapter 29DP7
Software Driver 2HF94
512GB PCIe Solid State Drive 2V067
Label 3GFD6
Shipping 3KWGW
Software 417KX
Info Mod 76471
Primary 6-cell 99W/HR Battery 7FTT8
Software Driver 7Y8JC
Windows 10 Pro (64bit) 8G8J6
Internal Qwerty Backlit Keyboard CJR8M
NVIDIA GTX 1080 8GB CK9JG
17.3inch UHD (3840 x 2160) IPS Anti-Glare 300-nits Display D08Y7
Label J09W5
Placemats J2NC6
Internal Qwerty Backlit Keyboard J3XRM
Additional Software J9XJF
Software JJ8DK
Info Mod KHCK5
32GB (2x16GB) DDR4 SDRAM 2400MHz Non-ECC KW93C
Shipping Material M4NJ8
Info Mod MX962
Info Mod N3PC0
Software P4V68
Software Driver PPG83
Power Cord : 250V R355H
Processor: Intel® Core™ i7-7820HK (Quad Core, up to 3.90 GHz, 8MB Cache, 45W) R92PX
Label TPMW5
Software V8410
Info Mod XF2TC
LCD UHD Cover with Tobii Eye-tracking Y3YWM
Software Driver YHX09
Certified Refurbished
1Yr Premium Support with Onsite Qty 1
Unit Price £0.00
TOTAL :£2,281.03

 

Did you really read my post? I talk about the new Intel tech.

 

There. attack me now too. I'm waiting.

 

What is this BGA ?

 

Everything soldered on MB. But not ram, Wifi and ssd’s. Have been like this since Dell started with soldered hardware for Alienware models early 2015.

 

You mean the CPU and GPU are both soldered? Because almost everything else, usually is.

If true, it reminds me of the XBOΧ whose fault was this soldering going wrong something about stresses with hot/cold etc, I cannot remember exactly?

In the case of Dell, what's wrong with this practice?

 

@doofus99 Yes, that's BGA.
LGA stands for land grid array. Those are chips you can BUY at Frys, Amazon, Newegg, etc, and install into a motherboard with a socket.
MXM GPU's are also "Slotted" and installed via MXM slots (sort of like a vertical PCIE card). Those are both good.

Currently the only laptops using full LGA AND full MXM slots are Clevos (including rebadged Clevos-example, Origin PC sells rebranded clevos, so does Xotic PC. HIDevolution sells them under their own EVOC brand), and some MSI barebones systems.

The problem with the practice of selling BGA CPU's, is that BGA CPU's are basically made from the same master "Silicon die" as LGA CPU's, but they have *FAILED BINNING* for QA testing for LGA tiers (example: 7700K and 8700K). Since they aren't high enough quality (silicon purity is bad) to be put into LGA and desktop processors, they get rebinned as lower tier where they will meet a lower quality standard, like 7920HQ parts, then 7820HK then 7700HQ. Note: 7600K (7700K's without hyperthreading) parts are still higher quality than 7820HK, however I am not sure where the 7700 non K (locked multiplier but a desktop part) ranks here.

Not familiar enough with 8700K series bins to give information on that, but 8950HK is LOWER quality silicon than 8700K.

 

Low quality, high quality, doesn't matter for most users, everyone has different needs and the forum title is "notebookreview" under clevo/sager category not "lga category" the spam is everywhere

 

It does matter.
Low quality= needs +1 higher multiplier bin for same bench scores as LGA ( @Papusan proved this with multiple people testing), and needs HIGHER VOLTAGE and RUNS HOTTER.
That means it OVERHEATS faster.
You can't tell me that most users like overheating chips. Do you really think we are stupid enough to believe that?

No---the answer is--most users don't think BGA vs LGA is important. But MOST users *DO* care once they are educated and do their research.
There is a reason why brother @Papusan has over 20,000 reputations on this forum. because people believe him and they show it.

 

People usualy like it to jump on a flame train...

Nevermind... dont want to warm up this discussion... i think everthing has been said many times there are pros and cons for lga and bga

 

I know my research but people do tend to forget, those Clevo barebone systems etc are not for everyone. They are thick, less well made for on the road and hardly can be used away from a powersocket. Thats what mos tpeople by laptops for. So the balance of most BGA gaming laptops is more towards portability and use on battery. I have said it many times and I respect the opinion of Mr Fox, Papusan etc but different user needs, different machines. Not Better or worse. If you dont move your laptop and pretty much use it on the same desk for 80% of the time those Clevo's are just fine. But if you want take your laptop with you everyday, people tend to prefer other compromises.

 

I have checked and it seems you can BGA or LGA or PGA depending on the motherboard and CPU combination, Intel uses LGA, whereas AMD uses PGA, which is what Intel used to use afew years ago, and notebooks and consoles use BGA - BGA is like LGA only it is soldered on the board rather than using a socket.

In that respect I do not understand how the CPU/socket type (pins or pads) solely determines the "quality" of the die ? I know from the world of electronics, decades ago, that manufacturers put their transistors and other components into different bins and mark them appropriately, eg for transistors you used to have "A", "B" and "C" based on the beta - so do we have similar markings on CPUs? Or can we just assume for example that 4700MQ, 4702MQ, 4710MQ and 4712MQ are all the same just different speeds just like the transistors?

 

Wow this forum is going downhill

 

No there are around 8 users on this forum that flame this topic, and they cycle reps between each other everyday, thats how papusan got 10k not 20 in only 2 years, don't make me laugh
Whats next? socketed cpu phones cause they run cooler? Hell even clevo has heatsink issues which is bashed when discussed. It seems that having the most contributions on the forum means that you can never be absurdly biased while being aware of it, but ya knaw hype train eh?

 

at the end of the day the only important question is: Can this CPU feed the 1080GTX during gaming to 100% load? Sure it can.

Is it lower quality? Maybe. Does it need 1 multiplier more than a similar desktop CPU for the same workload? Maybe. but is it important? No. 1 Multiplier at 4,3ghz is like 2%... You guys complain about 2%...

Sure. You can swap an socket cpu with an better one. But who are the guys complaining about BGA and buying LGA Notebooks? Right: Enthusiasts. And they usualy buy the best available cpu out of the box. And now, what is the reason to have this cpu socket? You don't need to answer...

@Papusan This is the last post from me in this discussion, but if you want we can continue writing PM in this thread its OT

 

I own two Clevo laptops, bought in 2014, FHD 17" with i7-4700MQ / 4710MQ and GTX-970M / GTX-780M.

From the start they have run hot, and very loud. I have cleaned fins and re-pasted a few times each laptop. Not to great success. They are "plasticky" and do not compare to my wife's aluminium 13" Mac Pro, or to my son's XPS-15 with carbon fibre body and a UHD touch screen! The XPS-15 has to be seen to be believed! They both suffer faults with their head phone sockets and with the SD card readers, and my ONKYO speakers are completely unbalanced! They do get hot and throttle from time to time, and when I am bothered to check, even though they are running on a Zalman cooling laptop base.

They are great laptops *for the price* when you compare specs on paper. But they could have used better case materials and better and more silent cooling!

I do hope the Alienware 17 R5 will run circles around them - both on the build quality, body materials, the UHD IPS screen, and of course the speed, which is to be expected, comparing a i9-8950HK with an i7-4710MQ.

 

Comparing 4 years old tech vs brand new one, damn, are we really here?

As a owner of both an AW 15 R3 and a Clevo P751TM-G I can tell you that while the Clevo is ugly as hell, it run circles around the AW.

Really, the only thing the AW has for himself is the aesthetic.

Let's not mention that if you want to repads/repaste or simply play in the Clevo, remove 5 screws, slide the panel and you're inside the machine.

Oh, you want to repad and repaste the brand new AW who's overhearting right out of the box? Sure thing, let me just having disconnect the wireless card, the battery, flip the mobo over and make sure you don't break anything while doing it.

The argument of "BGA laptops are for people who wants to move their laptop and have a huge battery life!" is true, if we're not talking about a gaming laptop.

Who pay 2-4k for a gaming laptop for its battery life or its portability? I don't move my AW often because it's bulky, same thing for the Clevo.

Both have ****ty battery life while gaming because those kind of laptops with this kind of hardware is not meant to have 5 hours battery life.

I do hope you enjoy your new laptop and yeah, there's a high probability that your 2018 laptop is faster than your 2014 one!

 

>> I do hope the Alienware 17 R5 will run circles around them - both on the build quality, body materials, the UHD IPS screen, and of course the speed, which is to be expected, comparing a i9-8950HK with an i7-4710MQ.

>> Comparing 4 years old tech vs brand new one, damn, are we really here?

Yes, we are comparing build quality, screen, what works and what is flaky right out of the box (eg my speakers and headphone sockets and SD card) - not just the CPU/GPU which of course is better on a newer machine...

On the Clevos the CPU/GPU is soldered, I think, because when I removed the coolers I did not spot an obvious lever or any latch/release mechanism. I am going to repaste the second Clevo soon and will pay more attention. I do not care it is soldered, but I do care about ease of repasting if it's something that needs to be done twice a year! On the other hand we are messing with exposed and sensitive electronics (on the Clevo at least) and I would not want to jeopardise the warranty by repasting myself.

I do hope the AW does not need repasting right out of the box, and I am not sure why it should - if I as an amateur can buy the thermal paste on Amazon and repaste and achieve better results, why can't Dell/MSI/Asus etc themselves with all their resources? Sounds crazy. I would want to see it with my eyes to believe it. Anyway if it does get hot and unplayable I plan to give them h*ell and call on their collect warranty, if not a straight refund, especially as they advertise proudly the new, improved cooling system! You have really scared me now...

 

It may need repasting depending on the configuration and your personal preference. I have two 7700HQ / GTX 1070 configurations and neither of them throttle at stock speeds and voltages using the factory paste job. However I have also owned a 7820HK / GTX 1080 configuration in the past and it did have stuttering issues out of the box. Hopefully some of the extra costs of the i9 goes into the double or triple checking that the paste job is acceptable from the factory. It will never be as good as something you get from a place like HIDEvolution but you should at least be able to hold the base frequencies out of the box on the CPU / GPU without issues.

 

The paste come pre-applied on the heatsink.

I'm guessing the guys placing the heatsink simply check that there's thermal paste, slap it, screw it then move to the other one.

 

The performance are in general the same. The GPU's in the Clevo's dont perform magically better, they all perform on par with eachother. So I consider them equal for gaming. But you have upgradebility of you dont move the laptop. They dont even fit in my cabin suitcase for in a plane..... Its true though that the current AW15 inch laptops are heavy, bit too heavy but they still fit in slim backpacks and cabin cases. But also have the durability to survive the daily moving. WHich I do by the way. I take my laptop everyday with me from work and back. 180minutes of commuting every day. When I just want to browse I get almost 8 hours of battery time even.

My AW didnt overheat out of the box also.

Just the Clevo's sacrifice case quality and construction there is I think no denying that. Maybe if you only game on it it feels different but for me personally there are no better options on the market at this time. If I did not need to move my system and if I did not want to game when away from home I would just have bought a Dell XPS13 and kept my desktop system up to date. But Now I prefer have 1 machine on which I do everything and cane take anywhere with me. No plastic fantastic laptops for me that might lose part of the fan grills when bumped by accident.

 

I game, only, most of the time the laptop is on my desk and when I move it it's to game so battery wasn't a concern.

If you get 8 hours out of your AW I'm guessing your screen is not g sync and you played in the settings, because out of the box, 4-5 hours is usually the max (that's what I had with mine without anything changed)

But then again, most people will not tweak as much as people here.

 

I thought I made this extremely clear in my last post, but maybe i didn't. I mean. I can only explain something so precisely and if people don't understand simple english, then the problem isn't me anymore. It's you.

So let me explain it like a grade school teacher does.

Intel has a FAB Where all the dies are manufactured in a sterile environment. They come from a huge gigantic wafer in a lab cleaner than the most clean sterile hospital room you've ever seen.
Then the chips are tested based on their silicon purity. Higher purity dies run the coolest and require the least voltage to run. These are usually the ones that can push high clocks at low voltages. With high purity and low imperfections, they can handle the increased on/off cycles without "bit corruption" (errors) without needing to boost the signal (more voltage=more heat) to do it.

The chips are tested not by how which runs can run at 5 ghz (that's Silicon Lottery binning here) but based on silicon purity and quality and how they respond to very low voltages. The ones which perform the best get programmed with "low" default "VID" (voltage identification) values for each multiplier up to the max turbo boost, and then sorted and put into LGA processors (let's say, 7700K, then 7600K for hyperthreading and non hyperthreading SKU's). The ones which made the highest cut get put as 7700K's, then any leftovers, or ones which failed the first tier of silicon quality, get put as 7600K's.

Then the worse ones, the ones which failed quality testing for both, get put into 7700 non K (locked processors), still LGA, but usually for SFF and other integrated systems, and then the mobile dies get sorted with the 'failures'. Starting with 7920HQ and 7820HK. The 7920HQ I believe has higher silicon quality than 7820HK ( @Papusan ?) because it has to support 4100 mhz (1 core) and 3700 mhz (4 cores) stable, although I am not 100% sure of that since this is still a locked processor. Then the unlocked 7820HK, with 3500 mhz on all 4 cores. Then there is some other low quality silicon part, then there is the lowest of the low, the 7700HQ (the worst of the mainstream mobile processors), followed by the low voltage parts, like the 7600U and 7500U.

Higher quality silicon runs at a lower default VID, can overclock higher on less voltage, and runs cooler. Higher quality silicon gets put into desktop LGA processors.

The failures, the ones which ride the shortbus, the "Special" processors, the ones that need special education, get put into BGA packages and soldered on mobile laptop boards.

is that clear, now?

 

Yeah i bought the optimis version and cap the processor so it doesnt turbo. But if i absolutely go minimum i can get 11 hours but that's at minimum brightness and max 25%cpu but with wifi on.

Got a gsync monitor at home so i use that there instead.

 

I wonder if the 15R4 / 17R5 will support optimus mode on the GSync configurations. If they could do that and offer the Chimei 15 inch / 17 inch 120hz 94% NTSC TN panels they would have a very good setup for this model.

 

Why cap the turbo? Do you mean it runs at base clock? the i7-7700hq?

 

so far, the only one that managed that is the zephyrus M, so perhaps soon others will follow.

 

Ordered mine today from HID (thanks so much to @Donald@HIDevolution)

Think i should be happy

 

I wonder if they could make that happen. Asus could but Asus doesnt have the AGA switch circuit as well.

Would be great though.

 

On battery yes. I configured my laptops battery profile that it will only use about 10 to 15watts on battery.

 

Hi Guys,

I have got mine yesterday which again I order as soon as it is released when the R4, so had to give back and now just ordered again r5 with i9 and gtx 1080 hoping with two years after they ahve solved the problem of heating specially after advertising about the new cooling system 2.0 cryp something.... but anyway since I got the machine yesterday been running lots of real tests... as I do 3d rendering too so I have rendering some images on Maya with Arnold as well as with some benchamarks programs such as Cinebench, vray benchnmarks and other extended extreme tests and the CPU keep the temperature pretty much all the time around 90 degree celcius vary between 95 and the clock speed in those temperature cant even get to 4 ghz... so been a bit stressful again with it, so will chat soon with tech guys and remotelly do they test too but I will know where it will end up... I do hope they have fixed this problem unless they didnt build my machine right...

Guys, please as soon as you get your r5 i9-8950hk and 1080gtx please let me know what is the temperature and clock speed.

 

This is terrible news. What was the clock speed? And what is the GTX-1080 role in this?

 

that 95C, is that R4 or R5?

 

He's talking about the i9 part, the r5.