NEW!! Alienware Area-51M LAPTOP!! (to replace alienware 15 and 17)

Not really. If upper management says freeze, then they don't care if it is 1 watt. It's just not going to happen.

We offered this in a conference call with heads of Dell. During the M18X 1 & 2 days.... As you can see...That never panned out unfortunately.

So true! And that IS their main focus here. Gaming @ 144hz 1080P. But making claims that it's the fastest in the world, is a bit of a stretch right now. And yes, I did ask. And i'm 100 percent sure it's not the fastest in the world. And they surely do not have the fastest factory clocked mobile 2080 either(Meaning factory clocks running and staying above 1700mhz on core. Roughly. More in the high 1800's). Another fact unfortunately, but that didn't interfere with gaming whatsoever. That is more of what most should be looking at in the end.

True! I really do hope so, but with just about any company out there dealing with Nvidia and Intel. They must follow what they signed up for on the dotted line to do. No amount of us complaining is going to make them jump up this second and change that. We tried. And what happen? We are the main reason why the AW15 and AW17 where worse than anything else. Bios is pretty limited, but that doesn't mean you can't use something else to make changes...

This part is purely speculation...
I think they have taken data from the past 5 years and run it up the chain and through Intel and Nvidia to see about offering something a tiny bit better in terms of what these machines are allowed to draw.....And the A15M is not something they decided on over night. Believe that!

 

Well put... it goes both ways... if there are issues at stock, then that's a real problem for sure... just to clarify what I was saying in the previous post, what I had meant was that how a lot of bashers focus solely on the stock TDP and work around that to fuel their bashing. Having a higher ceiling is good for the sake of having head room, but a lot of people don't understand that when we tune, we are not after trying to hit the highest wattage. It's the complete opposite. Yes, sometimes we need more power to achieve some OC's, but the goal is to get it as efficient as possible.

This is why I think even though the Area 51M doesn't not have a 9872384739742398729347W PSU x 10000, or whatever it is that people are wanting, it'll be sufficient once tuned to get a nice running system. Sure it'll have limitations to go full bonkers, but if that is the main objective, it's more wise to get a Clevo or better yet build a monster of a desktop.

 

Yeah, I can see that it creates challenges with scientific comparisons. But, all is fair in love and war... and here, too. At the end of the day, if multi-core enhancement produces better results, people are going to want to buy that product. I don't see any downside to that for the companies using it. For the companies that don't I can only ask "Why not?" and emphasize that they should be doing it. If nothing with an AMD processor matches that, so be it. It doesn't need to be fair when results are the only thing that matters. If we focus on creating fairness and having a level playing field, it stifles everything and holds back greatness from those that are willing to go above and beyond to win. I hate the clock-per-clock comparisons. They don't matter. They're kind of like good intentions, and there is a road leading to a hot place that is paved with good intentions. Winning and results matter.

I would not recommend that anyone buy a product from any company on the basis that they have good intentions and play on a level playing field. I would recommend buying products from the company that delivers the best product overall even if they do not have the nicest people working there. The focus is the product, not the process.

 

Oh for sure, I completely understand how it works behind the scenes on multiple levels, however, I just choose not to really talk about that here in public for obvious reasons. It is true that things take a long time for it to become reality. Product planning, decision making, approval process, kissing up on the golf course etc... it takes a long time. The sheer reality of business, especially at this level.

You do bring up a good point in that a lot of folks don't understand the boundaries of what is contained between the dotted lines. It's human nature, but our wants are not as easy as we think... While most companies are completely non responsive to user feedback, one thing that AW/Dell has going for them is that they are very interactive with their end user.

Regarding AW/Dell's new gpu form factor, taking things into their own hands to create something they can reproduce was a much better decision than opting for a dead end with MXM. Sure it's proprietary, but that is better than having something that has ended with no future. For that, I don't mind that they did what they had to do... What I'm curious about is what form factor MSI, clevo and others may come out with.

 

MSI has once again changed their form factor layout. Card looks like a different size and things moved around.

Clevo has kept their design and will stay the same this generation.

AW has DGFF as we've seen.

There's no MXM 3.0b cards in any 20XX system as far as we know.

 

Correct... which makes me wish that the form factors were universal again across the board, but we can understand why things are the way they are...

I do think AW/Dell made the only decision that they could at the time...which is good when it comes to manufacturing and design control.

 

Hopefully, it will continue to be something that notebook enthusiasts can benefit from across brands like it continues to be without NVIDIA's sponsorship. With MXM being used in SFF desktops, it might be declared dead prematurely. There are people using those SFF desktop MXM GPUs in notebooks now and I hope that continues. It could lead to NVIDIA having a change of heart. That would be better than having a form factor that is so overly proprietary that is it only capable of working in a couple of models made by one brand. Dell's version of it seems to be limited to product line as well. That's really unfortunate. But, in a weird way, if others continue doing home brewed MXM variations continues to be a thing, combined with the Dell's example of being the odd man out on the connection interface, that could also result in NVIDIA stepping in to bring order from chaos and reinstate MXM standards or something better. That would also be a win. Any solution that is not BGA is a step in the right direction, if not an outright victory. And, even if they are not compatible across brands, it benefits us all... simply because it's not BGA. It is a serviceable product and a superior design rather than a disposable piece of crap.

 

AW was also talking in a video about getting their DGFF to other brands. But said it probably won't happen. Pretty sure other companies wanna use their own stuff.

Sucks though, Dell, Clevo, and MSI could have worked together and made a newer MXM design that can hold better power/thermals and standardize it between them. But that's not the world we live in.

 

True.

Oh, they were responsive alright in making sure you could never get into their bios by patching all holes. LOL. But if you say they are really listening, then i'm going to believe and trust in that. Until they prove differently. (Although I have already seen some suspect behavior very recently.

Now you do bring up something interesting in that of the new design. I haven't made any calls on that till i'm able to see the others....

 

Very well put and yes I agree... one meh could result into something good by nature. This reminds me of the whole monitor licensing situation with GSYNC, where FreeSync monitors will be compatible etc... a little different situation, but a good display of how things can work itself in a weird way.

Strange, but interesting.

 

Do you have a link to that video? Because I'm getting a different impression in that they could mean using DGFF in other Dell laptops (like the Dell G series, Precision, and XPS).
Of course, I could also be misunderstanding "brand" in this particular context, and it could mean laptops from other ODMs/OEMs.

 

We've hammered the gpu TDP issue in a meeting and that was well taken. Less than 8 weeks later, we had a fix to up the TDP on the 1080's. This is why I speak with a lot of optimism. We'll have to catch up over voice sometime...

 

That is my fear as well. Listening (or appearing to listen) is a user-friendly way of gathering intelligence needed to plug the leaks in your controls like they already did to us about six ways to Sunday. The BIOS was just one example. Make a dual 330W AC adapter and show them how awesome it makes the M18xR2... then fast-forward 6 months and *BAM* the damn thing doesn't work on the 18. Overclock the memory on something that they didn't want it overclocked on, then answer their friendly questions about how you did it and *BAM* the RAM doesn't overclock after the next BIOS update. Bastards.

Listening isn't always good, even when they present it as something that makes you think it is.

 

As per my reply above, I think it's safe to say that we're in a different era now. Gathering intel or listening can go hand in hand. We may not get everything that we want, but it doesn't hurt to keep chipping away at it. (The release of the 1080 tdp fix is a good example of a reaction.) The era of the M18R2 was an interesting one with all the things going on behind the scenes, which I know you're well aware of. The evolution of what we have seen since then looks like a stock chart in a falling and rising trend. Right now, I think we're in a good position to in the laptop world. Only time will tell, but this is a good start with Area 51M.

 

Forgive me for not believing that. As much as I would like to I just can't... at least not yet. I need to see proof first. I do not believe they can be trusted, at all.

Eve believed the snake, and here we are.

 

Fair enough. The industry is a real goofy arena and it's usually so unpredictable that we have to make sure that we're not chasing a holographic carrot.

Proof is in the pudding eh... It's important for new comers to keep realistic with their expectations, because reality is reality.

 

Well if you follow my order thread, I will tell HIDevolution to let me know how it runs in terms of clock speeds and temps before shipping it out to me as I don't want to buy such an expensive taptop and be disappointed. So me ordering is one thing but me actually getting it is another. Only the next 3 weeks would tell.

 

Sorry, I've watched so many videos on this thing I have no idea which one it was. I think it was a 11 minute video with an interview to Frank.

I remember something along to lines with others not their G series etc. Although! I do remember another video saying getting the cards to the G series as well. Maybe it was all in the same video?

 

Ah yes I did see where you had mentioned that. Would you be able to DM the data once you receive it? (Unless you'll be posting it all up.) I'd like to add it to my spreadsheet to have a base line to go off of for the units that I'll be working on. If I had any data on hand at the moment I'd sent it to you for sure so that you can use it to compare... timing lol...

Overtime I'll have a lot of data on the system like I do with other laptops... this is where I get my concrete averages to know where a system truly stands with its capabilities.

Thanks for willing to be among the first to march forward to explore new territory.

 

Everything would be in the review thread I will make if I decide to go ahead with the order after seeing how well it does.

 

Sounds like a plan.

 

Oh yeah, getting a front row seat for this!

 

Sorry bro, I have the first ticket in

 

Johnksss >>> <<< Ultra Male patiently waiting for his new beast

 

I thought you didn't order it and are gonna wait?

 

Oh, I don't knowwwwwwwwwww. Ultra and I have a history so I just might have you by a nose on this.

Indeed!

Edit
I thought he was talking about "front row seat" ticket?

 

Well, I see you've already branded up your NBR account with the Alien stuff, so be careful to not paint yourself into a corner and geared up for being unduly enamored by specs that won't get you the performance you're looking for. Optimism is good when justified, and I'm not convinced that it is right now. Be super critical when they get it and start showing you the results. Maybe have Brother @Johnksss and @Prema and @Talon show you some screen shots of what Cinebench R11.5 and R15, wPrime 1024M and 3DMark 11 Physics Test scores look like for 9900K using BIOS defaults and multiplier defaults are actually supposed to look like. Vivian can also compare it against a P870 with 9900K to give you some CPU performance scores to use as a measuring stick. If it is off more than about 1-2% from what their results show with a non-Alienware system, just say no.

 

I'm sorry I feel that's a dead end ff, DEFF. More like deaf for all our woes...

DGFF is a dead end, worse than MXM, that's my opinion based off the proof we have. See for yourselves. That's like 3 different FF for same company, Just like MSI, in fact worse because even if it fits look at the connector mechanism, it needs screwing those connectors to the motherboard, add the mDP and HDMI ports on the back or front or god knows where adding complexity to be able to fit in any chassis other than where it's supposed to go (In this case A51M, perhaps not even the successor for this machine unless same design), double whammy.

PLUS if we look closer at the A51M GPU, there's a weird slope cut on the right, (check Verge here) Worse than 1070N MSI GPU tab, means it won't be even remotely possible to make it fit in their own machines. (Check 7350 DGFF here) where we'll see those connector ports I'm taking about on the motherboard and GPU, that means there is NO WAY any ODM can manufacture these DGFFs like MXM Aetina GPUs or those Zotac closer to Standard MXM based Pascal GPUs, since Dell owns the design on both motherboard and GPU sides. Period & Now vBIOS is an entirely different beast, no one knows what type of HW lock is there in that DGFF.

Clevo is much better than MSI they are still using the same FF for RTX Turing GPUs. MSI moved away and made another abomination like their 3-4 1080 MXMs. Horrible, after quoting upgradeability and had a meltdown.

And Ngreedia didn't allow the SLI, correction " Proprietary" NVlink to be made on Mobile / DTR scene. So for now the P870 TM-R (RTX refresh), SLI option doesn't exist, We don't know how MSI will take it, they have their uber GT8x chassis with Mechanical KB and all sorts of bells and whistles ofc with SLI, they are screwed to hell, MSI 2060 is BGA, 2070 is one yet to show up and 2080 one version is crapped to hell.

I should mention AMD here, too busy in making console and mediocre trash and ended up rebranding over and over no GPU after 7970M and the power guzzler Vega, making the Polaris RX480 going to the MXM made it DOA, no eDP support on major machines, no VGA support like LVDS, again repeat, now Radeon 7 another failure. Zero competition, Nvidia killed MXM permanently and probably won't have any reason since Max Q came into existence and how people demand thin and light, otherwise how can the damn Razer sell stupid duopod legged abomination at more than $1000 with tons of QC issues (yet free pass from Press as usual) ?

That's how the corporates roll. I feel shocked to see all the positive feed back regarding this dead end DGFF GPU. Since their Precision lineup came, MSI WT72 and HP Zbook 17 both use Quadro MXM 3.b Standard Form Factor (No, Zbook doesn't have EPROM to have a BIOS, MSI uses 1070N FF) Quadro P5200 which stomps Dell with their puny Quadro P3000-4200 (On both precision systems 7730 and 7530). Why didn't Dell use it ? It's business decision as we can see in Precision sub-forum rep saying they weren't limited by MXM, utter bs, cookie cutter response.

Fact is ZBook and WT72 both are thick, along with AW17 R1 Ranger vs the Area 51 or Precision why ? Thickness. MXM adds Z-Height. One of the reason this DGFF is developed since it doesn't have any slot, it uses connectors like in phones but albeit bigger and need screwing down.

And before people quote about MXM limits, better recall expert Khenglish on how P870 MXM Slot is rated at ~200W+ & everyone knows 980M threw the efficiency out of window with the MXM, yet so many people run it without extra MOSFETs at 140W.

Also don't have the hypocritical screenshot of Azor saying LGA and MXM are bad. It's pathetic to trust a corporate like Dell, now that PCH linked sBIOS cancer is incorporated directly into HW, that's a nightmare, even messing with NVRAM is a pain that's next level of control freak show. End of the day It's just sad that how things are going in DTR scene. Forget mobile since they all are Max-Q now (Dell G in this case). Also the chassis metal feels very thin since they even advertise less bulk than outgoing machine and even Precision as I posted earlier.

Look at how CES was, Dell won with G series laptops how they are heralded around ultra hifi fancy interviews and flashy stuff with all the Execs, Alienware going LGA, and the press coverage. No one wants like NBR users request them.. upper levels it's all a bureaucratic mess and all about profits and marketing, Brand power fuled by Planned Obsolescence and anti-liberty, I think even if Engineers / enthusiasts whoever left at Alienware wanted to design one with a standard FF GPU and zero power caps might be restricted due to the big board of directors etc due to a lot of changes that it demands esp choice since it has been a lot of time when old M series Alienwares and AW17 existed.

 

https://webcache.googleusercontent....cope.com.tw/cht/product_detail.php?serial=321

There seems to be a system with mxm 20xx series, and LGA socketed 9700K and 9900K.
It's Chinese and I'm still trying to find other sources.

 

You're looking at a Clevo P7xxTM1

 

Measuring stick here... This is Prema's result for comparison with the Area 51M with 9900K. Clevo P870. Memory is only 3200MHz, so nothing magical there. (We don't know what the Area 51M will do for memory, so there is that variable to consider as it does affect Cinebench some.)

It's a full stock run so Intel/BIOS defaults are 4.7Ghz all core Turbo and 3.6 on cache: 1C = 50x, 2C = 50x, 3C = 49x, 4C = 48x, 5C = 48x, 6C = 47x, 7C = 47x, 8C = 47x

The P870 BIOS default TDP is 160W for 9900K (just as an FYI). This is a very stock/average run with no more than 20+/- points variance when run back-to-back. So, it should be a decent and reliable point of reference for comparing with the Area 51M using stock BIOS settings.



And, in Windoze OS X...

 

Very nice. Good stuff... I like the choice of wallpaper too as to make sure that it gets their attention.

 

Yup, it's a real eye-catcher. He said that is a very stock/average run with no more than a 20 points difference run back-to-back. So, it should be a decent and reliable point of reference for comparing with the Area 51M using stock BIOS settings.

 

That is very good. The more data the better so that everything is very clear.

 

I'll add that to the post so nobody misses it.

 

Not to take/choose a side. But alienware has done multiple things based on user feedback. As long if you came with proper data. I for example found a bug in the intel HD driver in combination with the AGA, gave them info on how to replicate it. They offered custom drivers as a fix in result. The people at alienware are quite approachable and listened to for example my feedback a couple of times. Just give m data to work with.

 

From @Johnksss testing. +245W.

 

You may or may not know this, but the awesome fellow you are talking to is also a Dell insider/Rockstar and gives them hell in their own forums. He is a good man that knows what he is talking about and, like most of the people I admire, has a really low tolerance for nonsense.

With respect to Alienware, and Dell in general, I also found them quite approachable and so did Brother @Johnksss and Brother @slv7. Some of the nicest people I have met before. They treated me really well and were super friendly. They even brought me to Dell World at their expense because I helped make the Alienware brand famous. It was awesome and it made us feel like we were important and our voices mattered. But, it seems that the intelligence they gathered was used to undermine us. That's just not OK. While the good interactions I enjoyed were a genuine reflection of what great people they were, circumstances suggest that there was an underlying business objective that was at enmity with the agenda of an overclocker. Maybe I am reading too much into it and circumstances just turned to crap as a coincidence, but all I can do is read between the lines to try to figure out why things took such a steep nosedive with their products. I didn't take it personal though. They went a different direction and there was no way in hell I was going along for the ride. They didn't want us (overclockers) for customers any more and stopped selling stuff that we wanted. Clevo (and Brother @Prema) was there when it was time to find a new and better place, and they delivered in spades.

Since then I have learned that if you find something that works well the best policy is to keep it close to the vest and only share with people you know will keep it on the down low and use the information in a positive way. The less you share and the less you post in forums, the less likely it is that some hotshot with an axe to grind against overclockers and modders will screw things up for you and everyone else like you.

 

NVIDIA made sure of it behind closed doors. Dell had to increase the 1080 TGP because it was less than NVIDIA's design. NVIDIA doesn't like it when their muppets don't follow direction.

 

Does anyone know when the 240hz model will come? And will there be a Zen 2 model? Imagine a 16core portable Zen 2 cpu...

 

If AMD pulls through with a surprise that wasn't fully disclosed at the event, then we could be seeing some interesting mobile platforms this year. Their event was mediocre at best and it looked like they were still not ready.

 

No need to wait. It is quite a bit shy of that number. And gets lower if you run back to back.

 

Yep. I remember this. I was trying to see how many wasted watts I could draw.
But look at the 3600Mhz memory!

 

I meant Dell doing LM paste for all users for free.

Hey Johnksss, what is that white thing that can switch between BIOS(es) and also Power controller ICs?

I don't think Ryzen 3700x will come to AW 51M since it needs constant BIOS and other updates constantly for best and optimal working and features.

@Mr. Fox Bootguard can be bypassed if you have proper certificates and every firmware developers know that. Sadly its NDA from from AMI or Insyde.

 

@Vasudev My new Skypro III to add to my Skypro 1&2

 

Skypro SPI/EEPROM programmer? Is it wireless? How did you manage to connect to AW w/o SIOC test clip?

 

No, it's not wireless. Computerless would be more accurate.
I did not connect to any AW's. And you still need a clip to program with. I just didn't have it connected to it.

 

I meant first in line to the show aka your laptop review

That's a Clevo P775TM1 that was leaked last year in December. It is the only 2060 MXM we know of right now and uses Clevo MXM design.

Add a few more points for Windows 7

 

Hey @Ashtrix I was meaning to reply to the great piece that you wrote there earlier, but got busy with stuff. Anyhow, you make a lot of great points and there are a ton of details there that hits the nail on the head. I think the decision to go DGFF came about from many things that included all the reasons from A through Z that you've mentioned, but at the same time there may have been hurtles that were greater to overcome in going a more universal route, which led to AW/Dell taking things into their own hands with their own design.

The competition will also face a lot of the same problems, that will likely result into a very similar path that AW/Dell took with their GPU design. As much as it would be great to see them all sharing a more universal form factor, the reality is that there is way too much pride in the way for company A to use company B's design etc...

I think the mobile gpu's will continue to be like what we see with desktop gpu's in that they'll add their own flavor to the canvas (nvidia), jazz it up a little and add their own touch to make it their own proprietary piece like what AW/Dell did.

There are drawbacks for sure, but at the same time if going the DEFF route was what it took to make it happen, then we'll have to keep that in mind and appreciate it for what it is. I'm not a fan of uber proprietary things in general, but being that its a big company like AW/Dell, there shouldn't be any shortages of gpu's for those who care to upgrade / replace. We'll have to see how dynamic the DEFF is with how they implement it in future laptops. It'll be much easier for them to get creative with the flexibility to make it what they want, which may not have been a luxury they would have had if they went with an older form factor.

At any rate, we'll see how it unfolds... I can't imagine someone that opts for the 2080 to be upgrading much within the lifetime of the laptop or ownership, but it makes you think... how many who opt for the 2060 or 2070 will actually upgrade to the 2080? If it's years and years later, then by that time the gpu generation will be so far ahead that it'll make the 2080's now look like 980M's ... then again, if AW/Dell stays on top of it and with the freedom they have with DEFF, they could very well make it work ...

 

You hit the spot @iunlock, if I put myself in a user role. I won't upgrade my GPU so soon, probably I want to go from 20 series to 30 series, not from 2060 to 2080 for sure. However even AW themselves said they not so sure about their custom module can be available in next GPU generations. I also think the price of the modules won't come cheap to make it reasonable for short jumps.

And, I like the fully RGB LED decoration but hate it at a same time. When they die, I feel like getting an itching back where can't be reached. The LCD panel too, how can I buy this laptop if I know the 240 Hz is coming. Just my guess, CPU and GPU are easy to swap but not that easy for LCD and keyboard.

Finally, it's the BIOS, I'm not an overclocker but I don't want my 3200 MHz RAM wasted. I'll even agree with my Silicon Lottery 5.1 GHz i9-9900K running at maybe 4.6 GHz due to chassis' limits. But at least they need to allow me to choose options whatever I like in a fully unlocked BIOS just to know my system hung up with that setting.

To sum up, I will pull the trigger if the BIOS is not the restricted version. The design is undeniable addicting.

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