MAX Q

Since it's a gaming laptop, it's kinda the whole story... the 120hz display is the biggest joke of the Max-Q design.

One one hand Max-Q design are pairing a non-OC CPU with lowest performance possible in a laptop 7700HQ, and the highest potential performance GPU 1080 and neutering 30% off the top of it's performance, while doubling the FPS required for full performance refresh of 120hz.

It's like they are making a gaming laptop design by committee. Putting all the unrelated desires together to form a hodge-podge of conflicting design.

Watching a 1070 performance level GPU coupled with a 7700HQ trying to put out 120 FPS in AAA games would be painful, and fruitless.

There's no way a Max-Q 1080 + 7700HQ is going to put out 120 FPS in AAA games out now, or coming out in the future.

Rare exceptions and "esports" titles notwithstanding, it's just not going to be possible.

Why waste $3000 on gaming laptop for a portable photo editing laptop?

There are plenty of quality color balanced IPS display laptops that are thin, cost less than 1/2 the price, and will last way longer on battery.

The Max-Q laptop isn't providing 1080 level performance from it's 1080, and they have terrible battery life, it seems like a poor choice all around.

 

You seem stuck on this whole "OC out of the box" thing

What other laptops that can OC are fully OC'd out of the box to maximum performance?

Sure they have Sport mode - perhaps AW should have specified how far over Sport mode OC settings was their Max-Q 1080 beating 1070 OC performance.

Maybe the Alienware 1070 OC *is* attained through AW Sport mode automatic OC settings?

And, yes I think AW is "fighting back" at the Nvidia requirement to provide Max-Q laptops as a "top tier Nvidia provider".

Otherwise AW just would have foregone wasting $ making a Max-Q option / model, right?

I think Alienware's motivation was sincere, they know their 125w 1070 outperforms the highest TDP allowed for 1080 Max-Q - 110w.

AW wanted to alert their customers to be aware of the performance limitations of the Max-Q 1080 so they aren't disappointed.

 

I was answering someone else question about photo editing. I have plenty of other laptops for that with more color accurate screens (My Calibrated 13 OLED will be fine as a back up).

I game a lot more when traveling to work then edit photos which is why I started posting here today. Mainly playing Overwatch and Mass Effect lately. My aim is horrible on the 60hz esp. since I am coming from 165hz at home (the 13" display vs a 27" 1440p doesn't help either). So I wanted to pick up a travel gaming toy. This seems to fit the bill.

I was torn between the 1070 and the 1080 max q because I didn't understand why Alienware would even offer it if its a side grade at best. Wouldn't it provide other benefits?

 

I have no issues overclocking my desktop hardward, knowing that I am potentially hurting the hardware in the process over time. Never have I killed anything but have seen the effects of running a SB-E at 5ghz on water for 2 years. Before I sold it, it never went past 4.7ghz anymore. So my only concern and maybe like you said Alienware should address is how far they are pushing their 1070 to reach those numbers. If its a sport mode, sure by all means.

I still would be interested to see how their 1080 Max-Q performs against their 1070 without overclock in more then just Fire strike.

 

The only "benefits" Max-Q brings is the ability for vendors to sell a high margin GPU one level above "what fits" in cheap to build laptops.

Think about this, Nvidia found a way to sell several times more 1080 GPU's by placing them in laptops that can't handle full performance 1080 GPU's.

It's a stroke of marketing genius, how to clip more cash from the customer, and have them happy to pay it, all while providing less performance for more money.

The benefits of quieter operation for a gaming laptop have been discussed and used for many years. Detune the performance when you need the laptop to quiet down.

It's that simple, a few custom settings done by the owner, or pay $1000 for an overpriced under powered laptop that *can't* leave "quiet mode" ever.

At least with a full performance 1080 laptop you can change the settings back from quiet mode to full performance mode.

With a Max-Q 1080 laptop, quiet mode *is* high-performance mode, 1 full GPU level below the potential of what you are fully paying.

Max-Q 1080, pay for a full 1080 GPU that you can never fully use.

 

Agreed.

Aren't the 1070 and the 1080 both using the 104 chip? So theoretically the 1070 that alienware uses should be faster out of the box since higher 110W vs 125W and higher clock speeds?

 

Ask Alienware how to set your AW 15.6" 1070 to get the performance of Max-Q 1080 as "advertised".

That's the best way to know for sure, without doing it yourself.

Other than getting 1 of each and testing them side by side yourself, like Alienware did, to see which you like best.

Paying $400 more for the nebulus benefits of Max-Q, or set up Quiet and Highest Performance profiles with a 1070 model.

Talk to Alienware for the unpublished details.

Or, better yet, talk with MSI, Asus, etc about a nice way cheaper 1070 (full performance) laptop, or an even better suited long battery life IPS display photo editing laptop.

 

Do you favor one over the alienware with the same performance and build quality?

 

There are lots of problems with the AW series this generation.

We are months past the worst, but I still hear that many AW laptops still come with heat sink fitment and temperature issues.

You need to be prepared for the possibility you'll get a unit that needs RMA work onsite or sent in for RMA to fix problems.

AW is good about swapping, fixing, replacing, etc all under warranty - get a longer one than 1 year - 3 years is good.

The sweet spot for gaming performance is a GT73/GT75 1080, but that's my interest, not yours.

You'll need to seek out reviews for photo-editing laptops with excellent display's and long battery life.

Check out more than one reviewer as they have their own preferences and it's good to get plenty of points of view by photographers and computer savvy reviewers.

AW isn't so bad, if you get a good one

 

I have laptops for photo editing. If traveling for work I bring a gaming laptop. If traveling for fun with the family, I bring a photo editing laptop. Really looking for a gamer at this point.

 

GT73/GT75 to big for my taste. 15 " is the sweet spot for me between okay with carrying and not interested in lugging around. What back pack would you even put that in lol. Would be hard to stuff in my backpack for plane travel.

 

Then the MSI GT73VR/GT75VR 1080 or the MSI 16L1 15.6" with 7700K (LGA socket) + 1080 are the top choices, with the AW 17.3" 1080 in good running order right up there too.

*** MSI 16L13 (Eurocom Tornado F5)/EVOC 16L-G-1080 15.6" Owner's Lounge ***

The Official MSI GT73VR Owners and Discussions Lounge

The MSI 16L13 15.6" can support a full 7700K desktop CPU + a full (close to full) 1080.

And, it's not too expensive either, although the price has gone up since the beginning when it got really popular.

Check with @Phoenix for the GT73 (the GT75 isn't out yet), and @Mr. Fox or another regular in the MSI 16L13 thread for where to get it and how to get it best outfitting.

Remember these are the "other end of the spectrum" from "thin" under powered laptops, and are solid builds, so they are "heavy" and are "thick".

If you want something in between, find a nice "thin" 1070 from Asus, Aorus, MSI, but watch out for "stealth" Max-Q models there too, MSI isn't using Max-Q on their product pages, so watch out

 

As someone that carries a GT80 in a backpack, I can tell you you get used to it

 

Keep in Mind I need to travel with this thing. 10 lbs and 17 in are a little much. 15.6 is the sweet spot but I don't know of any 1080's in that size.

 

I won't be. 15.6 is the sweet spot for me. Needs to fit in all my professional bags.

 

*** MSI 16L13 (Eurocom Tornado F5)/EVOC 16L-G-1080 15.6" Owner's Lounge ***

The Official MSI GT73VR Owners and Discussions Lounge

The MSI 16L13 15.6" can support a full 7700K desktop CPU + a full (close to full) 1080.

And, it's not too expensive either, although the price has gone up since the beginning when it got really popular.

Check with @Phoenix for the GT73 (the GT75 isn't out yet), and @Mr. Fox or another regular in the MSI 16L13 thread for where to get it and how to get it best outfitting.

Remember these are the "other end of the spectrum" from "thin" under powered laptops, and are solid builds, so they are "heavy" and are "thick".

If you want something in between, find a nice "thin" 1070 from Asus, Aorus, MSI, but watch out for "stealth" Max-Q models there too, MSI isn't even using Max-Q on their product pages, so watch out

 

While nice... Overly excessive for what I need it for. A 7820hk and a 1070 would do just fine with a 120hz... but almost 2" thick, Thats more then I need. Those would be great desktop replacements, I don't think they are really mobile.

 

Stop thinking "thick", and think sized for the performance.

There are physical limitations for performance, for cooling, for power delivery, it's all related. The MSI 16L13 is designed to be the smallest full function 15.6" high performance laptop. The MSI GT73VR is the 17.3" version.

MSI doesn't have a consumer direct 15.6" model like the 16L13 or 17.3 GT73, the 15.6" MSI direct versions are lower performance, and slimmer.

If you want thin then you aren't going to get performance, and you are going to pay a super high premium for thin even for the lowest performance.

The popular thin laptops have ULV (ultra low voltage) dual core CPU's, with only 15w TDP.

If you want a 7820HK, and you actually want to unlock the performance with OC, then you have to get a full power 330w PSU + have the cooling to handle the thermal output.

A thick notebook is what you are looking for, not a thin one.

The "thin-laptop" rip-off artist marketing will have you pay $2000-$3000 for the thinnest lowest power CPU / integrated GPU laptops if you let them.

You've gotta man up and "take the weight", and the sturdy build with large internal volume for cooling to get a 7820HK performance laptop.

Keep looking and learning

 

The Alienware 15 is about as thick as I want to carry. I don't need to overclock. Its provides a 7820hk if I need to a 1070 or Max Q 1080 option at 120hz and is a little over 1"

When I want to do all those things I go to my desktops for that. Im looking for 120hz manageable performance. I don't need best of the best for laptop performance.

 

To get 120 FPS in as many games as possible you do want as much CPU performance as you can get, and the top performance CPU's are desktop CPU's with 91w TDP's that unlock for even higher performance.

The AW 15.6" 7820HK with a 1070 would be at the top of your weight and size range, the best you could get right now - it's heavier due to it's high mass cooling components - heavier than other "thin" laptops.

It's a good compromise, but be prepared to work on it yourself to get the cooling down by adjusting the heatsink, thermal pads, and paste - or have someone else do it @iunlock @DeeX

Warning: Some i7-6820HKs and i7-6700HQ have Uneven Core Temps due to Uneven Heatsink

Here's the re-pasting guide to summarize the fixes to AW thermal issues:

[Alienware 17R4 / 15R3] - Disassembly + Repaste Guide + Results

 

Going with the 7820hk for sure. The only thing I haven't decided was the 1080 Max Q vs the 1070. Would like to see real world performance comparing AW 1080 Max-Q vs their 1070.

 

OC'ing usually buys 10% benchmark improvement for Fire Strike Graphics, to get more in the past you'd need to add voltage, something Pascal GPU's have locked out.

So the OC is "OC light" with Pascal, so I wouldn't count on a big difference between 1070 Sport mode and full OC, maybe 2%-3% more - if that.

And, everyone with the full Max-Q Design laptops have said all the controls for fan control, limit's, etc are locked... no user tuning.

I doubt AW would do that, but if they are following the Max-Q Design rules, that Max-Q 1080 model might be locked from further OC tuning.

Please contact AW, and see what they say, and please come back and post their answers, it would be fun to hear their additional snipes at Max-Q

 

Well yea but I'm not taking my gt80 to college so what I get needs to have decent performance

 

Is there a better way to reach them? Their customer service chat and phone lines aren't helpful.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Those first level contact points should be able to direct you on now to open a ticket.

Some people post / respond to AW on their Facebook page or via Twitter.

Keep the question short and give those a try.

Also reconnect on those support portal's, and ask for technical support contact info.

If you already have another AW product you can file a ticket and redirect to a question about the Max-Q product.

You'll have to dig into it yourself, or maybe @iunlock @DeeX can direct you to a better AW contact since they've been working directly with AW.

Perhaps they can relay your question(s) to them directly.

 

Posted on their Facebook page to further explain.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

The 7700HQ shouldn't bottleneck you at all for photo editing. It crushes large CAD projected without issue.

 

Yes I know wasn't concerned about that using one right now on the 13"

 

You hardly feel 10 pounds in a good backpack. I carry my 17 + charger brick + mouse and various other items and it feels light. Throw some weights in a backpack and wear it, trust me, it isn't much more than a 15.6" would weigh.

 

What backpack would you even carry that in. Plus when I travel I have to account for a Leica M240 - 2 lenses, Sony A7 MII 3 lenses, Surface pro 4 (work), and headphones... that all adds up quickly if it was just the 17" It would be fine.

 

I can second this. It does get tough outlet hopping though...

 

Just wait til you get that GT83VR with dual PSU's, cables, junction box, it's gonna be a "massive upgrade" for you to carry around

 

The Vindicator and Orion 17" both feel great with the 17 in them. Perhaps put other devices in another bag or your luggage while traveling? I've taken it with the laptop, charger, cooling pad, external keyboard, xbox controllers, a mouse all without feeling much on my back which was very surprising. There are other bags I'm sure that are bigger and can fit more however.

 

yes but it has even worse battery life listed than the Asus Zephyrus

 

An Everki Titan

 

Battery + gaming don't mix.

Get a nice ULV "Business" "airbook" tablet or laptop or 2in1 to carry around with long battery life, then a 2nd laptop for gaming.

The little-bitty thin ULV laptop will slip in unnoticed next to the 10lb "real" laptop

 

I was planning on getting a tablet for note taking but my parents want whatever laptop i get to be understated and portable. and to have decent battery life.

 

the laptop isn't for "gaming" its for "video rendering and advanced photo editing"
Nothing short of a GTX 1070 will be sufficient for the above tasks

 

You don't need a 1070 for non-gaming work... you could probably do more than fine with a 1050 ti in a light carry like a new Asus UX550 when it comes out.

Why don't you trade-in for a GT73VR 1080?

 

Its not offered.

 

Is the AW15 with 1080MQ going to be the only Max-Q laptop from AW?

No AW13 with 1070MQ?

 

From the youtube comments for Alienware's Max-Q video:

" Fred Reitz 1 day ago
So the cheaper 1070 OC is faster then the 1080 Max-Q? I just want to make sure I am understanding that correctly.

Alienware 1 day ago (edited)
That's what I'm saying I got from the benchmarks I ran. -Umar"

If Alienware is still reading comments maybe post there to ask your questions about 1070 OC

 

increasing pascal voltage beyond 1volt has diminishing return and massive power consumption boost

 

The new 15's are shipping from the factory with an OC vBios like the 1080 got months ago, that's why he is advertising the 15 as OCed. They will NOT be releasing the vBios as they did with the 1080 on the forums so don't expect that. Nvidia has to for some reason approve of the vBios's and they don't want to do it for the 1070 so were left with what we have. I imagine it's only a matter of time before someone pulls it off a new unit and posts it somewhere though.

I am severely opposed to the idea of Max Q, it took us years to get to where we are now with the mobile GPU's and I don't want to go back. If Max Q is something people want and are willing to pay for then fine but I for one am hoping it falls flat on it's face. Tech will get better and as it does we will evolve to thinner and cooler units.. A few years ago no one thought we would see desktop class GPU's in a laptop anytime soon either but were here and we have it. Alienware from what I understand and was told was completely opposed to Max Q but it was basically forced upon them. Umar put up his video and it was pretty clear what he thought of it and I am glad he did put it up so that HOPEFULLY a few people that would have bought a Max Q reconsider and go with the 1070 for less money and more performance.

 

So aw 15 with 1070 are now overclocked direct from the factory by flipping a simple switch in easy to use software or they are just overclocked automatically by the vbios?

Thanks


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

wonder if flashing the 15 maxq with 1080 oc vbios would work lmao

 

They are coming with an OC vBios from factory.

That's an interesting question lol...I wouldn't try it with anything i owned haha.

 

So his video of the 1070 beating the 1080 max q is the new vbios from the factory?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Yes. On top of that I assume you could still run an OC yourself. When they released the new vBios for the 1080 it didn't stop you from running your own OC it just increased the TDP and you got about 3% ish more stock.

 

Well why didn't he explain that in the video. Umar not allowed to disclose a vbios update for the 1070? This basically makes the max q worthless for 400$ more.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk