MAX Q

We need someone to benchmark both 15.6" laptops, one with a full 1070 and one with a Max-Q 1080.

 

That's loud, IDK why you would think it wasn't... you can tell it's under heavy load and the fans are laboring under maximum performance.

You might also try running with the fan boost enabled in the ROG control center, or are you already doing this?

Also, that's the worst position to run a laptop, exhausting heat into a corner - heat goes up not down so that small crack between the desk and the wall isn't going to help much.

When you exhaust heat into a corner like that it bounces back off the walls, focused on you and the laptop.

The laptop cool air intake will then pick up hot air instead of cool air and have continually less efficient cooling.

Set up the laptop so that the laptop exhaust fans can point into open space with nowhere to reflect the heat back toward you and the laptop air intakes.

Then run the tests again, temps should improve a bit.

Thanks for the informative updates and video's, please keep up the good work

 

I can't control the fans in the software, lol that setup is not ideal that's my office at work and the a/c really doesn't work so it was around 76f in there.

 

Well that's too bad... maybe when you get home you can test in a more advantageous position, and get better results too.

Or is this a work / evaluation laptop that you can't take home?

Thanks for the @quickie updates, it really helps

 

Its a personal laptop, I just have tv shows running at work all day to drone out the silence lol. Its about the same temps at home. Undervolting is causing the system to be unstable. I dropped it all the way down to -120 and it still crashes, not as much. I did notice when I first got the laptop, in the processes there was a xtu process. I think the asus software undervolts on its own.

 

That would be smart of Asus to do that, but CPU's are so individual that I would be surprised that it could be done automatically without some unexpected crashes for the owner.

It's more likely Asus is using XTU only for the CPU core multiplier settings for OC'ing.

Some CPU's in past user reports have been reported to accept as much as -200mV and some as low as -20mV, so maybe your's will only do around -100mV, keep testing

 

Asus GX501 has no unlocked CPU. Only 7700HQ.

 

Ahh, good point, but Asus ships the same ROG tools with all their ROG laptop's, so maybe in this case XTU is installed but isn't used at all?

I still don't think Asus is going to risk undervolting without some kind of user notice / interaction.

Asus's motherboard "auto-tuning" is done at user initiation while the user watches the settings change, with reboot's in between testing to see if it's stable.

The same thing would need to be done with auto-undervolting...there is enough variance in CPU voltage sensitivity - why the BIOS CPU voltage default is so high in the first place - that any undervolt would need to be tested before keeping it.

I suppose it wouldn't hurt if a Zephryus owner filed a request with Asus Support and asked Asus directly how Intel XTU is being used, if it's doing undervolting or what? - since that CPU is locked and multipliers can't be altered by Intel XTU.

 

The Perfect Gaming Laptop!

 

Not All Nvidia Geforce 1080 Max-Q's Are Created Equal | Alienware
Alienware - "TGP"


IDK, doesn't this seem a bit "bad" for even Alienware... it's almost like their youtube channel got hacked and someone posted this as a joke...

"Alienware" even put into this video benchmark comparisons between the AW 15 1070 OC vs AW 15 Max-Q, and the 1070 OC beats the 1080 Max-Q!!

How Cool is that?

 

That is funny....they are basically saying get the 1070....but if you really want the 1080M we offer that too and we will gladly accept your money.

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Alienware's decisions have been completely bonkers here with Max-Quid.

And this video... A 3 minute promotional video comparing "TGP" and performance, and they have no competitor product to compare against, so they overclock a 1070 in the same notebook?

The absolutely only reason anyone could buy one of these is for Temperature/Fan noise control, and they don't even mention that...

 

It's Alienware totally dumping on the whole Max-Q idea

Finally AW stands up for performance over BS. @Mr. Fox

The funny thing is, everyone I've talked to with a Max-Q laptop says that there are *zero* controls for adjusting fans, power, limits, etc. It's all hardwired, and you get what you get without any user level tuning.

I think AW is gonna get some heat from Nvidia from this, but hey, Dell / AW are probably Nvidia's largest desktop / notebook GPU customer, so Dell / AW should be able to speak up when something dumb like Nvidia Max-Q comes along

It is nice having AW confirm what we've been saying all along, a good full performance 1070 OC will outperform the Max-Q 1080 performance, for a lot less money.

 

You're right, I din't think of it that way. Nvidia could have "persuaded" them to use Max-Quid in their lineup. They can't say hell no, so they put that video up.

 

I can tell you that the people I have talked to from Alienware are not happy about Max Q, but they are also not going to refuse to sell products that apparently people want. The video hopefully sets a few people straight that wouldn't know the difference otherwise.

 

Talking about OCing the 1070 and it beating the 1080MQ, I'm new to overclocking but how would I go about doing so to my 1060? I have MSI Afterburner installed but don't know how much I can overclock it without damaging anything. My max temp at stock clocks is ~61C after an hour of Wildlands.

 

In Afterburner, try +150 core, +200 memory....then you can increase the core by 10 and memory by 100 at a time, or find the best combination....usually the 1060N wont overclock more than +200 core +600 memory.

 

Remember to monitor your temps. Too high overclock only results in instability and crashes, but no permanent damage. Damage comes from burning out chips with too high temps with long term OC.

 

So I turned off xtu and didnt undervolt at all, my cpu temps are stable with low to mid 60s, no spikes to 70s anymore and the fans are more quiet. So I wonder if I turn on my xtu if it changes the cpu profile for the laptop.

 

Since there isn't any info on what exactly Asus / Nvidia are doing to throttle the Max-Q, and since there aren't any user tuning available for any of those items, we really can't say - maybe Asus is on the fly doing some tuning with XTU - but it can't change the multiplier as it's a 7700HQ, so... IDK.

BTW, XTU setting doesn't create load, but the XTU monitoring - temp / etc - app in systray does use CPU - so maybe try setting the undervolt, but kill the background process and exit the systray app before running your tests.

 

gpu oc can't increase heat

the power limit will stay the same

 

It will make your chip stay at the power limit longer (and much of the time a little above the power limit). This makes the average temps increase. It may be, before OC the chip would reach power limit much less often and you would have small spikes at 90C, but after OC it stays there.

 

So can someone explain this to me? The 1070 is only faster if you overclock? It isn't overclocked from AW is it? So technically the 1080 max q is faster out of the box?

 

Yes 1080 MQ is faster and expensive than standard 1070.

 

Not always, you can win the silicon lottery and get a 1070N that preforms better than the Max-Q without an overclock (and even if you don't you're only 4-6% under so that's a simple OC that any system should be able to handle).

 

In reality the 1080 max q will perform better it seems. I have no intention of overclocking. But why couldn't you overclock the 1080 max q?

So basically I have a 13"r3 Oled that I bought for travel. I travel a lot for work. At home I play at 165hz. When traveling at 60hz it's no fun when your accuracy takes a dramatic hit. I want the 15 r3 120hz 1080 but worried about the tn panel because I also do a lot of photo and video editing. Wish there was a ips option would solve my issue.

Also the asus zephyrus keyboard design would be impossible to use anywhere but a desk. Seems cool in logic but not going to work for me.


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I think its fine when I compare colors to my mbpr and its better then my 144hz vg248qe but nothing matches oled imo.

 

Does anyone know if there are plans to put an IPS in there? I just wonder why they went with the TN instead? Maybe faster timing for gaming.

Anyone else use their 15 R3 for video / photo editing? I don't mind calibrating but this OLED screen is hard to walk away from but 60hz gaming is...... well its 60 hz gaming lol.

I guess for those that would be buying now it seems the 1080 Max Q is the better option and could potentially provide longer battery life?

 

Also I am confused. Umar says in this video That AW provides a overclocked 1070 GPU... is that not true? If it is true his benchmarks show that its better then the 1080 Max Q... if its not true you have to overclock it yourself?

 

Amazon lists the display in the zephyrus

 

I do a lot of photo editing too. My worry is that the zephyrus will be CPU limited

 

Nah, I have a huge library that I use only for travel on my 13 R3 OLED it does fine the 7700 HQ is more then capable.

 

Lol, the Zephurus only covers 60% Adobe RGB. wouldn't call that great. (AW 13 R3 covers 80% Adobe and 100% sRGB)

It is really hard to find a good 15" panel

 

What about the aw 15?

 

1080p IPS: 91% sRGB, 71% Adobe RGB

The 120hz screen is TN and has the same stats as the Asus 90% and 60%

 

My current list of thin 15 inch computers I like in approximate order of most to least.

Asus Zephyrus
Aorus X5 v7/Md
Acer Triton
Dellienware 15
Aero 15
MSI GS 63

Lemme know if I'm missing anything I purposefully left off the XPS 15. I might bump the dellienware above the aorus but I read some poor reviews of its cooling and light bleed issues

 

EVGA SC15 (G-Sync AUO IPS 120hz display) Up for pre-order. Build quality of the EVGA models is very impressive

https://www.evga.com/articles/01113/evga-sc15-g-sync-gaming-laptop/

https://www.evga.com/products/product.aspx?pn=516-34-1833-T1

 

Um... wow this got off track we are discuss the 1080max q in the Alienware


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I thought it was max-q in general. ;P

 

That's what Razer was supposed to be. I experienced "Razer quality" firsthand. Does look interesting. Wonder if they will release a maxq version

 

Who cares if it's out of the box faster, the Max-Q 1080 option for the Alienware 15.6" is LAME!!

I think that's the point of Alienware's video, you did get that right??

I'm sure you can figure out by reading NBR forums that we *all* tune our laptops out of the box quickly after it hit's the desk, so all that matters is how you set it up in the end.

Don't fall for Nvidia's Brain-fart Marketing department BS, don't fall for Max-Q!!

You do know that if Max-Q sells well, selling expensively marked up GPU's running at 70% performance, Nvidia will have no other option other than to assume the planet is devolving back into non-reasoning monkey's incapable of three dimensional thought, and then Nvidia will *only* market GPU's with the performance neutered.

And, for all you wise-guy's that say "but Nvidia said they will keep selling both the expensive and hard to make high performance laptops along with these new cheap to make high margin Max-Q lumps", remember it's Nvidia that said it - and they don't make laptops, they tell laptop makers what to make.

Don't fall for Max-Q, or that's all we are gonna get moving forward, 30% of the performance off the top reduced performance laptops.

Think before spending, and don't make it easier for Nvidia to take your money.

 

Razer = "30% off the top performance" => Max-Q

The Razer 1080 was the poster child for Max-Q, or didn't you know that?

 

Of course a 7700HQ will be CPU limited at some point, even by a 1070 (or Max-Q 1080), watch this video - he runs into CPU limits gaming...
Asus ROG Zephyrus/ GTX 1080 Max-Q Review! The Most Powerful Thin and Light Laptop?

 

You should let people know that you already have a GT83 for "real gaming", and this list of laptops are for your "2nd laptop", picked for light carry and long battery performance for college, not for gaming performance

 

Woah.. out of left field. I understand the video, but buy a 1070 hoping to overclock it to something that comes out of the box faster makes zero sense. I'm not looking to budget cut my way to performance gains. That doesn't change the fact that the 1080 Max Q can provide better thermals, and maybe better battery life. Once someone gets one it would be good to compare. This is a travel gamer for me not a desktop replacement.

Anyways, Umar should explain his video more all he did was spend 25 minutes putting together something to defend against the flock of people planning to pick of Asus horrible attempt at a thin an light 1080.


Important to note (since I saw the above post) I have a desktop for real gaming. This is for travel gaming only; I travel about 2 nights a week for work and want something that is going to perform at 120hz

 

We just came from downclocked and underpowered laptop GPU's, or are you new to all this?

Nvidia are the one's coming out of "left field" with Max-Q... two step's backwards.

The Pascal full performance GPU's are near desktop performance, and it's wonderful to have this after all these years of detuned laptop GPU's - "M" GPU's.

To give up desktop performance in a laptop for skinny "M" GPU laptops would be a mistake, and a purchase of a Max-Q laptop is a vote to go back to "M" GPU's.

If you want manufacturers to make full GPU performance laptops, and you want them to provide quiet operation, make them engineer it - let them put in the effort to earn your $.

Giving up your money so easily to mobile GPU's again is a mistake, and a clear vote to manufacturers that they can deliver cheap under performing Max-Q hardware to extract high margin cash from their customers.

That's not out of left field, at least not if you are thinking - not just reacting to the marketing BS and falling victim to it.

At 120hz - high FPS 1080p gaming, you'll want a high performance CPU to handle all those frames, and a 7700HQ isn't it.

" Asus horrible attempt at a thin an light 1080."

You do realize that "Max-Q Design" is exactly what Asus built? A super thin, quiet, performance throttled, overpriced laptop *is* "Max-Q Design". The Acer Triton 700 is the exact same thing. As will be the other "Max-Q" laptops.

Vote with your cash, invest in full performance GPU laptops, not Max-Q neutered GPU laptops.

Think.

Alienware has shown you all that an AW 15.6" 1070 outperforms the AW 15.6 Max-Q 1080, for $400 less, and they dismiss the "potato-chip thin, chicklet keyboard" Max-Q Design laptops as being a joke.

Think.

 

You realize I am not arguing with you right? So lets cut the nerd raging.

All I am saying is if Alienware or as Umar states the 1070 is OC out of the box... it is not. Listen to his video. If they want to prove a point start shipping with this minor overclock and call it a day; which shouldn't be an issue.

You cannot negate the fact that not all of us use these as desktop replacements. Improvements in battery, and heat when using on your lap are big for us whom are road warriors. Without a real review an comparison of the two we really don't know what type of benefit if any a Max Q could offer and vice versa.

 

That's all in your head, I am calmly discussing the positive attributes and benefits of not wasting money on a Max-Q laptop.

You are putting up excuses for buying a Max-Q laptop, putting words in AW's mouth as to "why" they posted a video clearly demonstrating why Max-Q laptops and Max-Q 1080's are a joke; Max-Q 1080 performs just like their 1070 GPU's for more money.

I am answering your mistaken impressions point by point.

That's what people do in a technical forum, and you should expect it.

There are plenty of reviews coming out, some flowery gloss over's of the issues involved in Max-Q - low performance, high cost, low battery life, while espousing the one undeniable wonder, "how did they get a 1080 into a 1070 laptop??"

It's easy, they made a 1080 fit by making it run like a 1070

It's just common sense if you think about it. Think about it.

 

I was talking about the cpu not being a bottle neck for photo editing. Gaming is a different story.

 

OF course I am putting up excuses I am trying to wrap my head around why Alienware would offer something if it isn't even a performance bump... Maybe Forced Fed.

So maybe I didn't understand Umar video to what Alienware is selling. To my understanding their 1070's are not OC out of the box correct? In his video he clearly says our 15 r3 are shipping with an OC 1070.