MAX Q

I meant the revised AW 15 R3/R4 if they have any plans of releasing it.

 

I highly doubt they'll remove cards from their current lineup. I expect the max Q 1080 will be in addition to the current 1070, there's no reason to replace it with a max Q one.

 

So while people are wondering about the bigger laptops (such as the 15 R3 getting a GTX 1080MQ), I'm wondering if the 13 R3 is getting a GTX 1070MQ. As well, given Nvidia has fan noise guidelines for Max Q GPUs, I wonder how it'll impact the cooling for the Max Q-equipped laptops. Will they remain the same (more likely), or will they be designed for more powerful GPUs to sustain low noise (less likely)?
I'm also wondering if Alienware will be open and discrete about any Max-Q listings on both their configurator and product pages. It's one thing to announce it, but it's another if it's listed as so.

 

Fancy naming, means only more CRIPPLED!! And the best way to milking the last drop from peoples wallet. They will take advantage of people's stupidity and lack of knowledge!!

 

Sure. Bottom line is if a crippled, weakened, gimped, butchered whatever the hell you want to call it 1080mq still significantly outperforms the 1070 in current laptops like the AW15 R3 it will be worth it for some people. Maybe not you, but they're not going to replace every laptop card with an mq model, so you'll be ok

 

Well we here aren't representative of the average buyer, but is anyone here interested in max-q laptop designs?

I don't mean try and imagine a buyer for it, we probably can, but does anyone here actually want one? If so, why?

I promise not to make fun of you, much.

 

While I would take the full performance we have now anyways , and would never choose a lesser version over it, I can understand the thin want as well. While many of us "power users" if you will are always going to choose thick and powerful over thin and quiet there are probably 3x as many out there that want thinner and quiet and cool. At the end of the day Alienware and or Dell are going to build whatever they think people will buy and I am sorry to say there are probably a lot more people out there who don't care about the benchmark scores if they can get an ultrabook with a 1080, even it it is a gimped one.

Again, while I don't support it, and I will never own one I can see a lot of people buying them and it has been the way the market has been going for years so it really isn't surprising. My R4 is already half as thick as my R1 was so this is just the next step. OEM's just need to realize there are two markets...one like us who want the thicker higher performance version and others who would take the thinner Max Q stuff. As long as they have two lineup's then who cares. If someone chooses to buy the MaX Q design and knows they are sacrificing performance to do so then that is their choice.

The only problem I can see, as long as they offer two lineups , is that a lot of people don't know any better and will end up with a Max Q design and then get mad at the OEM's when it does not perform as well as the non Max Q design versions. This happened all the time when the "M" versions were out there and people never understood why as they didn't know enough about the hardware.

 

M11X with a GTX 1080 clocked at the plus and minus square root of 2 mega-hurts.

 

Bottom line is the MAXQ chips will throttle to keep the noise down. People who truly want to use these for gaming or other heavy applications such as CAD don't want this. This is actually the exact opposite of what any of us want.

 

I need one.

But to fulfill the same need, bleach is much cheaper.

 

we still dont have the offical specs of those MAX Q chips.. lets wait and see.. but yeah.. im afraid its just a marketing name.. i really like asus design.. hope alienware brings something new to table.. im done with intel / nvidia.. waiting for ryzen / vega.. ik amd gpu division screwd up big time.. but i dont want nvidia monopoly here..

 

ROFL

 

I am interested in the Asus Zephyrus ROG GX501; don't care about MQ in this case.

I'm interested because of the laptop design and its implications (in theory). Really interested if transformer laptop can be a thing (slim down for carrying, and expand for cooling). I consider it a proof of concept if it works and doesn't get stuffed with pet hair . Would be really cool if we could slim down a real GTX MXM the same way.

 

Well said. Yea it's sad but true that there's more "I don't care'ers" than those who do.

The problem with this is that ODM's will feed off of this, putting the enthusiasts stuff behind in priority.

If they truly did offer something for everyone, that would be a different story.

Time will tell...

Precisely.

Innovation is good and I'm all for that.

It keeps others on their toes.

::iunlock::

 

I'll be interested in a maxQ 1080 in an AW 15R3 if it's a significant step up from the 1070. People crying that it's gimped need to realise that a full 1080 won't fit in the 15R3 or any smaller chassis due to heat produced, but a 'lol gimped' version will, offering more performance than the 1070 with similar power usage and temps.

Also some of us travel all the time and would happily shave off a few fps for a lighter machine, so I can understand the appeal of some of the maxQ designs from other brands.

Everyone's situation and requirements are different so I don't understand the overreaction towards the maxQ laptops I keep seeing here. There's NO WAY manufacturers will start putting ONLY mQ chips on laptops from now on, if it's not your cup of tea, simply get a machine with a full 1060/70/80 instead of an mQ card. It's not like they're going out of fashion

Anyway rant over, feel free to laugh away.

 

Maybe it's okay that people have to pay more for less. Oh'well
I don't think people would pay more for desktop 1070 vs. 1080Ti either. Or would they?

 

They don't have to. Free will is a thing, and its only paying more for less in relation to thicker laptops which have superior cooling and no need for MQ cards. It's always going to cost more to fit more power into a smaller chassis, that's why laptops are more expensive than their more powerful desktop equivalents?

 

And people forget that ODM's will stand still regarding improvement on cooling for the more powerful hardware. It's easier to design inadequate cooling for crippled hardware!! We already pay higher prices for laptop hardware vs. desktops. And now we have to pay same high prices but get even less back.
Of course it's free will buying what you want, but in the end we all will loose on this in the end!!

 

The reaction comes from the current released specs; and according to these specs the GTX 1080 MAX-Q will be significantly more expensive than the 1070, but barely outperform a GTX 1070 (if not under perform a GTX 1070 if the 90W version) See specs below

Basically its about charging more $$$$ for little to no performance gain (at this point in this forum's view). They will have to either be better performing than anticipated, or have very good improvements on temps and battery

Fear is that Max-Q will spread to become the norm b/c Nvidia can charge more for it, and market it as "more efficient"

GTX 1080 Max-Q
Codename N17E-G3 Max-Q
Architecture Pascal
Pipelines 2560 - unified
Core Speed 1101 - 1290 (90W) or max 1278 - 1468 (Boost) MHz (110W)
Memory Speed * 10000 MHz
Memory Bus Width 256 Bit
Memory Type GDDR5X
Max. Amount of Memory 8192 MB
Shared Memory no
DirectX DirectX 12_1
Power Consumption 90 - 110 Watt

GTX 1070 (laptop)
Codename N17E-G2
Architecture Pascal
Pipelines 2048 - unified
Core Speed 1443 - 1645 (Boost) MHz
Memory Speed * 8000 MHz
Memory Bus Width 256 Bit
Memory Type GDDR5
Max. Amount of Memory 8192 MB
Shared Memory no
DirectX DirectX 12_1
Power Consumption 120 Watt

 

I read that those clocks are guidelines and each manufacturer can make changes depending on their laptop specs. If it offered barely any more performance I don't see why Alienware would offer it in the 15R3 alongside the full 1070?

But I accept your point about the 90W version, although I imagine that will be in extremely thin laptops that would only be able to house a weakened 1070 or a 1060 of the current range.
Either way I think we should all wait and see some benchmarks etc instead of getting so worried without anything concrete to go by.

 

Last time Nvidia changed we had to pay more for the new desktop versions vs. The ordinary 100/110w Mobile versions. And now they go back to 90/110w mobile versions and we have to pay the same prices. Pay same, but get less. And we will never get rid of it!! It's here to stay!! Why stop here? Further power gimping with next models and of course higher prices!!

 

It is all just another gimmick and a new channel designed to scam and screw customers victims and in the end all (everyone) will suffer because of it. Choices will be limited further and the bar will get set even lower. We're already at the edge of the cliff and this is exactly the kind of chintzy feces that could move us over the edge into the abyss. I bet we will soon see feckless 'gamer' mobile filth start to surface from companies like Samsung, HTC, LG, Motorola, Huawei, Google and Apple. Maybe even Fisher-Price, Hasbro and Mattel will have spots reserved at the mobile gamer urinal.

 

anyone in NYC I can borrow their 1070 AW15 so I can try and shove my 1080 mb in it?

also, 1070n is 115w

 

at least they are not charging 2k for a raedon pro 460 like apple

 

True I'm curious to see the price hike due to the form factor.

 

That's true. But, since when does Apple ever do anything right? LOL.

 

Regardless, None should pay 1080 prices for 1070 performance!!

 

Can't argue with that. I'd even go as far as saying none should pay 1080/1070 mobile prices for 1080/1070 mobile graphics. It should be cheaper than desktop GPUs. We're all getting screwed, just some more so than others. Soldering this to the motherboard only exacerbates the complications of being raped... adds an extra dimension to the filth.

 

Sure it should be but it always costs more for similar performance in a smaller size. Always has, always will. This isn't going to change anytime soon.

Also back to my previous point about overreacting, buying a laptop with soldered components ≠ being raped. Don't like it don't buy it, an nvidia rep isn't stood here with a gun to your head

 

And, all of that sounds cute, but you apparently don't even realize that doing something else isn't actually an option. It goes way beyond that because we are all getting screwed. It DOES NOT cost more to make it, but they want us all to believe that. It's a lie, just like everything else and if using that excuse as a rationale for paying extra for trash makes some people feel better, I guess that's better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick.

And, that que sera sera attitude toward this filth is one of the reasons we all have to put up with it. We are all victims of the lower-bar syndrome that has indiscriminately cursed us all. This was from another thread, but it's fitting here. @D2 Ultima and @hmscott made some comments and I replied to them. This is only going to get worse.

 

Let's uhh not forget that the "enthusiast" laptops are paltry midranged intel CPUs (7700K) and midranged Pascal silicon (GTX 1070Ns, GTX 1080Ns).

This isn't even high end, like a 7920X and a 1080Ti.

 

Exactly... screwed at every level by a dishonest ODM (NVIDIA) and incompetent OEMs selling broken trashbooks. And, the desktop jockeys are getting the same treatment with firmware cancer.

 

Here, let's take a look at what Mini-Q cards are gonna do, using the gimped 1080N in the Razer Blade *cough* "Pro" *cough*
http://www.3dmark.com/fs/11920094?

Here's a random AW17 R4 benchmark that beats it tho
http://www.3dmark.com/fs/9460721

(with a 1070N)

 

Nice.

Spoiler: Like I said before...

 

You think it's that un-special now? Did I forget to mention that @Papusan's favourite person, Mr. Frank Azor, said that 1070Ns in the AW models are 100W?


It's half-way to Mini-Q already, and it still beats the Razer. I WONDER HOW MINI-Q 1080Ns ARE GOING TO PERFORM FOR $1200 A POP?

 

http://www.3dmark.com/compare/fs/9460721/fs/11920094

And, no... that doesn't mean buying the AW17 R4 is a good option. It only means it sucks about the same amount as the eunuch version of the 1080.

 

Be happy Mr. Azor don't run the Nvidia ship. Could be nasty. The new castrated Max-Q graphics would be further crippled!! Don't forget Portable gaming. Graphics with lower power usage means extended battery life!! Today and tomorrow's tech. Do more with less

 

True, however the majority of people don't want a 7920X and a 1080ti laptop because in order to have a system like that with adequate cooling it'd be massive. It'd be impossible to fit those two full power components in a laptop that isn't huge, strapped to a jet engine in order to get enough air across the heat sinks, or made from some not yet commercially available material that cools down as current flows through it, rather than heats up.

Oh yeah external water cooling or a liquid nitrogen bath are also options.

Maybe you want a laptop that's essentially a desktop in both size and weight, albeit with the ability to fold in half, but the vast majority of consumers don't. Also power requirements are a thing, most people aren't going to like carting around multiple 330w power bricks to feed such a beast. I'm not sure I'd describe a 1080N (full, not RBP edition) as midrange, but all companies are going to aim their products at the largest target audience, not the 5 people who'll accept any price, size and weight of their machine in order to be able to say it has a 1080ti and a 7920X. Hell the 7920X costs £1200 by itself, few people spend that much on a CPU alone.

 

I'll be very surprised if the 1080MQ in the AW15R3 doesn't outperform the 1070N and the RBP 1080.

In regards to the 1070N, it's already available in the 15r3 and 17r4, why would dell put a card that's less powerful than the one they currently have in the 15R3? It makes no sense? The only logical assumption is that due to the cooling system, the 1080MQ in it will be more powerful than the RBP edition

Really looking forward to some benchmarks tbh

 

We are talking about enthusiast builds to have those components.

 

You're thinking like a consumer, this is why your only logic is "1080NQ is better".

Think like a business. Same performance, but $500 more, and more desirable, and will possibly be able to make things thinner. This equates to more $$ for the company. The consumers won't care.

I never said people did. But $2400 worth of gimped GPUs and $400-$600 worth of midranged-at-best CPU in a $4000+ chassis does not say "we should have to do a crapton more work on this". This says "this better be the best thing we ever see". As for the notebooks that can cool it, if the vapor chamber P870xMx was redesigned for 1080Ti and the CPU, to focus all the cooling on one GPU and a hotter CPU, then I'm 100% sure it can cool just fine. P570WMx did it, I'm sure P870xMx can do it single GPU if they try (key word: try).

As for what I want? What I want for my own machine is pretty irrelevant. What I REALLY care about is that

- What we get works
- What we get isn't price-gouging
- What we get doesn't require a million mods to function at an "acceptable" level

 

Nvidia is being run by their Marketing and Marketing is "creating" new products. Whatever helps to reduce lifespan of laptops helps Nvidia stock prices. So please make Nvidia Great again and buy BGA disposable laptop every quarter.

 

Not me And all of you should follow after!! Say no with your wallet!! All you do with buying this trash is helping Nvidia to make more money and more of similar fraud-scam in the future.

 

I doubt it'll offer the same performance for £500 more, there's no point? No user is gonna buy the same 15R3 with a 1080 that doesn't offer any performance benefit over the 1070 they can buy in the very same machine unless they're stupid. I know businesses take advantage of stupid people, but reviewers etc will question it if Dell were to do so.

And the chassis most likely isn't gonna change cause it hasn't been out long. My point was it should be better, at least in the 15r3, as the frequency of the 1080mq can be chosen by the manufacturer. And I did mention I was awaiting benchmarks, it should be out at the end of the month and dell should have some promotional benchmarks soon too.

I'm not familiar with the p870xmx, but I imagine it's dimensions are gonna be larger than those of a 15r3, and it's price too, correct me if I'm wrong. My point about the power consumptions of those components still stands.

I entirely support your point about the products we pay so much for functioning without requiring user end hacks/fixes though.
I do think laptops are too expensive, they will always charge more for them than the desktop equivalent, bit it'd be nice if it wasn't so much more. Quality control should be far more strict at this price point too.

Either way, let's see some 1080 mq benchmarks in the 15r3 and others before deciding it's the end of laptops as we know them

 

Money and marketing. Futuremark "most popular motherboards" of 2017 so far puts the Razer Blade motherboard at #6 popularity. That means it is literally THE most popular laptop on the planet that ever has its users attempt to run 3DMark suite programs. People hear "1080" and a name like "Max-Q" (what's that? max-quality? Damn, they refined it! I want it!) and "thin and light" and "we optimized it so it works now!" and they jump at it. Any research they do is top-level skimming and fleeting, they'll see mainstream reviewers like Linus and Dave2D singing praises about every single flipping computer so they figure it's all fine.

The word you're looking for is "ignorant", not "stupid". The number of stupid consumers is far lower than most would think. The number of ignorant ones, however, is 100% a different story. The entire mainstream laptop media market is designed to keep customers ignorant, not necessarily by lying, but by hiding the truths out there and picking their words carefully. After I yelled at Linus for 300 years until he started realizing he can't say the CPU doesn't throttle under load unless it holds max turbo, he simply gave the turbo he was able to get out of his laptops from that point onward.

There's a LARGE difference between "I was able to hold an average of 2.9GHz in Crysis 3" and "the laptop throttled to 2.9GHz under simultaneous CPU/GPU stress". That key word? Throttle? "Performance loss"? "Not getting the rated performance for what you pay for"? Those are BIG turn off words to consumers. That's why they're never said, on purpose.

Frequency is not really manufacturer set for existing 1080Ns, they all have give or take the same base/boost tables (regardless of what GPU-Z says). For example, my cards read "1582MHz base, 1771MHz boost". My cards hold 1557MHz base if they're un-stressed and I force max perf, and if it's cool enough and there's enough leftover power, I'll boost all the way to 1911MHz out of the box. I don't have a shot with 1911MHz because it rarely remains that cold in my room/laptop with sufficient stress to trigger high boost clocks, but here's a shot at 1898MHz:

Well, I only need one power brick. I have a single 780W power brick here, courtesy of @Eurocom Support's innovative drive and some plain old good will. It is bigger than an AW15 R3, yes, but as I said, it's an "enthusiast" model. The AW15 R3 isn't. And it also needs modifications for best functionality, including bending of the heatsink for perfect contact, as well as some repadding. So yes, they probably do want an excuse for a new model to include Mini-Q GPUs in.

Yup, that's the whole thing about it.

I'm all for seeing, but since it's confirmed that the clockspeeds are intended to be reduced and TDP is intended to be reduced, I hold no bated breath for 10x0N-Q models. But their design, however, is 100% aimed at making consumers pay MORE for LESS, and that's where I have the problems.

 

So you basically don't want an Apple product

ALSO: I found this http://www.gamersnexus.net/news-pc/2939-nvidia-max-q-40dba-requirement-msi-new-laptops-ge63-ge73

I'm super curious now to see how it performs with staying under 40dBa.

 

You assume you can mod apple and razer products to function properly even

Sent from my OnePlus 1 using a coconut

 

This brought a smile to my face . The way you implied it is that Dell/Alienware does things that make sense all the time. I'd say over 50% of the things they do don't make sense. (3 armed tension heat-sinks being the biggest this revision... but there are so many more).

I am predicting that they will be putting Max-Q 1080 in the AW 15 next revision, but also 1070 and 1060 Max-Q, plus a $200-700 price bump. So yes the 1080 Max-Q will be the most powerful version, but still on par with its last revision, at a higher price point, but marketed at more efficiency.

 

Haha can't fault you there, the 3 armed CPU heatsink is indeed a questionable design choice..

And I sure as hell hope not, but I guess we'll have to wait and see. I doubt they'd do that while other manufacturers still offer non MQ cards though. Even Linus does benchmarks so people would probably notice that it doesn't add up. Either way, I agree that they'll most likely find a way to make them more expensive.

What I would like to see from Dell and other manufacturers ideally is a thinner laptop range with mq cards alongside a thicker, full power range of machines. Maybe I'm a bit optimistic though.

 

At this point, I think I'm done with AW.
I love the brand and I've owned 6 of them in the past 6-7 years and it makes me sad to walk away.
However, with the roughly $3K I spent on my 15R3, the fact that I had to open it up three times, repaste and muck with the heatsink in order to get it to where I'm ok with the temps, is inexcusable.
These are flagship quality systems. The consumer should NEVER have to make alteration to the hardware in order to make up for shoddy design elements. Good thing there are those who are knowledgeable and capable of doing this dirty work.
Good thing I’m an IT guy who likes messing with tech too…The average user would never be able to do this crap on their own.


Now you guys are saying that they want to reduce the performance? No. No, I’m not having that. I’ll just suck it up and build my own PC from now on.


Too bad, I’m gonna miss that feeling you get when you finally get your new toy.