Alienware 15 - Display ghosting?

Hey docsteel, how's your's 13 doing on battery?

 

Just to make sure anyone who has the laptop with 4K, does ghosting alo occur on the 4K panel?

Also on the 1080p monitor does the ghosting always occur? Meaning on battery and on power, and could you guys check in the display settings if it is actually running on 60 hz?

Because my alienware m14x changed the monitor to 48hz when the laptop was on battery by default.

 

So, I checked the blur buster test (2 UFOs, 960 pixels per second) on my Dell U2414H monitor and couldnt notice any ghosting for the 60 FPS UFO.
The linked blur buster videos on the first page are actually in 60 FPS, somehow it didnt work up on my laptop. However, the Video has noticable compression artefacts, which are severe for moving parts of the image.

@ TheSandman2236 can you tell us if your AW 15 was powered by battery or by the wall charger when you recorded the video? The original Video on a differen platform (without havy compression) or as direct download would also be nice

 

yep it do run at 60 Hz on battery!

 

I just checked - if I am using balanced power profile it appears to ghost but this is just a power reduction to the 860m; on full power profile no problem!

 

You sure? Because I just set mine to high performance and just got ghosting.
It may not happen as frequently, I guess.
EDIT: Well, the problem seems to stem from how much power is being used. Looking at batterybar, if more than 20,000 mW are being consumed, little to no ghosting (actually, it may just be no ghosting). However, under 20,000 mW, ghosting appears. And given the 13's weird way of battery consumption being constant whenever it feels like, once it consumes that much, it won't go down.
But that doesn't explain why Windows 7 is unaffected.

 

I guess that is good news, since it seems to be driver related (something with powermanagement). This should be fixable without returning the notebook (at least I hope so for all people with a AW 13 and 15).

EDIT: under the premise that the problems of the AW 13 are the same as for the AW 15

 

No, I meant if you see or have this wears battery measures behavior!

 

Just to confirm Game's findings above, I am on AW15 4k 980m
My battery bar is showing a discharge rate of 27k mW - I see no ghosting on all power plans - balanced, power saver and performance

There was ghosting last night when my discharge rate was at 20k mW before I went to bed
Dunno but when I woke up, AW 15 went to sleep mode and discharge rate is now 27k mW without me doing any changes.

Anyhow the ghosting does not really bother me hehe since I am not planning to play any FPS here.
The touch pad issue and battery discharge rate seems to bother me more.

 

this stupid level up thing don't go away. it happen on 3840x2160 resolution only no at 1920x 1080!

 

Good morning everyone,

I just wanted to tell you that we're still reviewing the issue from our side. There are no updates yet, as soon as I have any I'll let you all know!

I also wanted to add that I sent them the info you collected about the power consumption and the ghosting problem. It may help a lot! Thank you all for your feedback.


Luis.

 

It is great to hear that this issue is being looked into.
Being from the support work myself I know it takes great courage to face the problem especially if you know that your users can sometimes be irrational.
More like "going into the lions den" you may not come out alive!

We appreciate what you are doing Luis, keep up the good work!
An update is an update, it does not need to be a substantial one.
At least we know that someone is actively working on it and we are not left hanging.

I am sure most of us here are rational AW owners and don't mind those posers.

 

Hey guys, I just thought that I might lend a little personal insight that might be applicable to some. I'm a lifetime console gamer (38 yrs old; own PS4 (for Uncharted) and Xbox One (Halo) now), until my recent purchase of the Alienware 14 and 18 (15 is in production). I tested the 14 and 18 inch models (1080p for both) and can't discern any ghosting. I think that some us console guys might not have as much of an eagle eye as the veteran PC gaming crowd. I say this due to the slower response time of the console controller (Xbox One for me) vs the mouse, keyboard route. I acknowledge my heresy for preferring the lesser control peripheral, but old habits and all. I honestly don't think that I could move the camera as quickly as the test videos, posted earlier, though I will give my review upon the 15's arrival. I know this doesn't excuse any detrimental ghosting effects for the mouse/keyboard crowd, but it may provide a substitute till new screens/software can rectify other's concerns. So lay down those mice and grab that beautiful controller........ oops never mind I already see the torches and pitchforks headed in my direction

 

Hey Luis

Thanks for the update, really do appreciate this. I hope to hear by thursday to what I should do with my AW15. I don't want to keep past the 30 Day return window if it's an on-going issue that can't be easily resolved (without waiting weeks or months for hardware replacement)

 

Most VAIO Duo 11s, including mine, developed ghosting. I think the XPS 12 did too. Apple goes so far as to call ghosting normal for IPS displays ( source). Is this really a case of AW cheaping out, as some are saying, or is this just a common issue with even otherwise-good IPS displays?

 

Yea, this is the argument that the TN display crowd uses to support their preference. I would much rather take a little ghosting with my IPS screen, due to that tech's far superior colors and viewing angles.

 

The problem is, there are otherwise very good IPS displays out there with little to no ghosting. Now, whether that comes at a premium or not that depends on many things of course. But the fact that an advertised IPS display has such a severe ghosting issue is beyond reproach.

 

Yea, the IPS screens on my Alienware 14 and 18 are beautiful with zero issues. It's bizarre that so many early pitfalls have presented themselves, when these new models are so similar to last year's. Has the 15's screen been on other laptop models (non Alienware, of course)? If so, any kinks should have been sorted out before production.

 

I've returned my AW15. My guess is that they did not QA this product before they released it. Or at least sampled the parts.

 

I got some ghosting on my 13 in Windows 7, but after a shutdown and a restart, the ghosting never appeared again (or so it seems).
I'm going to see if this was an isolated case. From what I saw, 20k mW had ghosting before my shutdown. But when after restart, 13k mW, and not ghosting.

 

43 minutes on battery, no ghosting. Must have been an isolated case.
I still have to wonder why Windows 7 is largely (might be the wrong word) unaffected.

 

I have the 1080p screen and I don't really see much ghosting at all, and the little bit that I have seen I have to really be trying to see it. Under normal gameplay I dont notice any at all. Its the same if I'm on battery or plugged in.

 

Can you please review my last couple of posts and look into the "unavailable" service door part. Mine is cracked and have been told to just "call back in 3 weeks or so and maybe it will be in our system." The part number is VD5V0

 

Hi guy I am New . I ordered 1080 screen and It will ship 2/25 . Since Dell did not came with solution for
Display ghosting dose it mean that my laptop going to have same issue ?

 

I have my fingers crossed for you, friend. Mine is fine, so I hope your's follows suit.

 

Honestly, when you are reading forums and see posts of people with issues its usually a case of the vocal minority. People with problems tend to go online and talk about them, people without problems tend to be quiet. My 1080p screen on my AW 15 is great, and I think chances are that yours will be too.

 

thank you guys it's such a relief, although I hope they send it earlier. I order in 2/9. This wait time is killing me!

 

Well, ghosting happens on Windows 7 (13, 1440p). Just not as often as Windows 8.1.
And for the same reason. Power consumption.
EDIT: And now, no ghosting on Win7. Ugh...

 

You can get the display model from the hardware ID in device manager.

 

Thanks for the info, I'll definitely look into that. Sometimes on new platforms, the parts are not active and we need to wait for the planners to get them. Once that's ready, we can send the parts as usual.

 

Thanks for the response. The tech in Costa Rica said that it was showing availability in 4 days. It would be great for this to be readily available as that door is really fragile (probably an issue for future owners). I have heard of others sending their laptop back, for replacement, due to the part's scarcity. I was given the option, as well, but I can't imagine that it is a very cost effective recovery method.

 

Now that my laptop has arrived I can also confirm that I have Ghosting on my 1080p screen. In my case nothing changed when changing power plans and/or plugging in the adapter. Also have tried changing the monitor from 60Hz to 48Hz still nothing changed.
But the ghosting is not a plain following tail. It's actually multiple layers following eachother fading away. so it's actually like some VERY simple motion blur effect. So let's say there is a single solid block on your screen like this ██ on a white background, so if you move it quickly on your screen you literally get something like this this:
█ █ █ ███
The faster the part moves the longer the trail obviously.

Not a huge issue for me except for Diablo 3 a game I like to play a lot. It's a game where your character is always centered and the camera is following you with every movement. So the complete surroundings move when you move as a character with you staying in the middle. This causes the complete map to start ghosting. It's a little annoying when there are text on the screen, like the name of the dropped items gold etc. names of stuff places, ... Those are almost unreadable when moving.

Beside from that, like I said it's just a small trail like a slight motion blur.

If there is a fix I'd like to have it, but if not, it ain't the end of the world either. But to be honest indeed expected better from alienware.

I just received my laptop yesterday though, and I did put a small initial review here:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...-15-owners-lounge.770311/page-39#post-9934116

 

I realized the ghosting issue is quite serious when compare with my desktop monitor and my smartphone. Any update on this issue? Hopefully it could be solved through driver/bios update.

Testing method: testufo.com

 

Well, I don't think I can even consider buying an Alienware 15 until this problem is resolved.

 

how do you guys know when using that test ufo site? mine stays at 60fps. i have it side by side with my retina macbook pro, and they both look the same with a very slight trail.

 

I think its a visual thing more than anything. You see how much of a trail, the trails colors, if it's blurry or not blurry with a trail or without one.

There's a link at the top of the test page that goes in depth explaining how to interpret the test

 

If I'm not wrong, retina macbook pro having the same issue as well.

I'm so surprised, my smartphone Mi3 has not even single trail at all. I could see the ufo face clearly even it is moving fast. Better than my desktop monitor.

 

I am happy to report I have little to no ghosting that is not noticeable in games whatsoever. Might be from my eyes being used to console games tough.

 

I suspect this is true, especially for younger eyes that they might on average see more but each individual's brain processes images slightly differently (not to mention what their eye's report). I detect only the barest hint on the 1440p option on the AW 13 and I'm fairly sensitive to visual aberrations, but that is a True Life display. It sounds like the bulk are happening on the 1080p screen options, perhaps it is less on the True Life panels?

 

Doing some research on the model of the FHD panel on the 15, it's the Samsung SDC4C48, the same one used on the Latitude E5550 and Insprions 13 and 15 7000 series.
They too have been hit with ghosting panels.
For AW15 owners, the problem might be the panel. Only way to find out is if one swaps out their 1080p panel for another 1080p panel.
As for the AW13, it's a Sharp LQ133T1 found on the Asus Zenbook UX301LA (HP-Spectre 13x or whatever it is called has a different 13'3 QHD touchpanel). I haven't found anything on them, so I can't conclude much.
Honestly, it's either the panels or how the iGPU works.

 

so none of the QHD panels are having this issue?

 

The 4K panels are fine. The 13's QHD panels are affected (I mentioned this a few pages ago).
I don't know if any 17 R2 owner has spoken up, so it would be hasty for us to conclude that the 17 R2's displays (non-touch and touch) are unaffected until some owners speak up.
Also just found out that Sharp makes two 1440p 13.3" QHD panels, LQ133T1JW02 and LQ133T1JW14. However, the one on the 13 is unknown.

 

I'm going to be running a little experiment. I hope some others with affected displays can participate.
I'm using the GA on battery right now, and I'm on Windows 8.1 on the 13, ghosting is not automatic on Windows 7 as it is on Windows 8.1. It happens, but it can be manipulated to not happen through sleeping and hibernation (it can be a pain, but this trick also works to prolong or shorten battery life. The battery is that weird).
Batterybar tells me that around 14k mW is being used. That's enough to get me 3.5 hours of battery life. Obviously, this is due to the GA being attached. However, I report no ghosting so far. I did see a flicker, but that was when I look at Bb, so I don't know what caused that.
Going to run a bit longer. If no ghosting appears for more than an hour, then I assume the problem isn't the panel anymore but the iGPU (HD 4400/4600/5500) since the mobile dGPU is a render only device and the iGPU is doing the display work. Considering the Insprion 15 7000 was affected as well, I wouldn't be surprised that the problem is the iGPU after all.
Or it can be Optimus and that Enduro is so much superior (anyone with an AMD AW15 with a 1080p display can speak up, and anyone with that same laptop and a GA should speak... if such owners exist, that is). Remember, I have an R9 285 in my GA, so I have to deal with Enduro.

 

how do you check? device manager?

 

Well I found out about the AW15's FHD panel through notebookcheck, but essentially, yes. Under hardware ID.
You can also find out through HWInfo.

 

Okay, more details. Using the GA doesn't prevent ghosting (I think I should have known that).
However, on my first run with the GA, which lasted about 30 minutes so it should be passable as evidence, I never experience ghosting (maybe for that one flicker, but that would be it). On my second run, ghosting everywhere. But there was a difference. Battery life/consumption was constant in my first run; it was variable in my second run.
I noticed this a few times in Windows 7 that battery life was constant no matter what I would be doing. Given that Win8.1 had the same reaction, I have a theory.
If battery consumption is variable, then ghosting on select panels (AW15's 1080p and AW13's 1440p) will most likely appear.
If battery consumption is constant, then ghosting may appear on select panels.
I say "may" because there were times on Windows 7 that ghosting appeared when battery consumption was constant, and the battery consumption was usually around 15k mW, meaning that the whole "power consumption threshold for preventing ghosting" theory doesn't have much credibility now.
Of course, more testes need to be done to prove this theory. I only suspect 3 things as potential culprits.
A. The iGPU
B. The panel.
C. Switchable Graphics
One could include the BIOS as well if they so choose to. All this said, it would be helpful to know what could be the cause, so some investigation among other owners would be helpful.

 

Is it possible that a better power supply, like the 240 watt version could solve the ghosting problem?

 

The charger could be irrelevant given that ghosting (from what I've seen on my AW13) never appears plugged in. Now, I can't speak for AW15 owners, but I would assume the same for the bigger laptop. If ghosting appears on the AW15 when plugged in, then maybe a 240w PSU can prevent ghosting. The AW13 ships with a 130w PSU, and it has about 35 to 40 leftover watts.

 

More tests results.
No ghosting on Windows 8.1 without amp. So my previous theories hold up.
That said, they are probable theories, and without a percentage or any numbers they are somewhat lacking.
However, whenever battery consumption is constant, expect ghosting to not appear (most of the time, I would think).
@AW Khan I think this is all I can gather about the ghosting problem with the AW13 1440p and AW15 1080p. This post and the one with the theroies (three above this post) should provide enough information. The only things I think can fix the issue is an updated (or fixed or both) Intel GPU driver and a BIOS update. Or either.
The only thing I haven't done was gaming. Hmmm....
Oh, and by constant battery consumption, I mean the battery consumption stays flat no matter what battery plan you are using or what tasks you are doing.
EDIT: Except for gaming. Gaming still makes an impact on battery life. More tests may be needed to prove the constant battery consumption.

 

Well the GPU should still be sleeping properly since that is mostly vbios/nvidia driver controlled.