New M6500 Discussion Thread

KiloWatt - I'm glad you posted this as I am in the market to upgrade the Samsung PM800 mSata 64GB drive where my operating system is located to a larger mSata SSD. My current configuration is RAID 0 for (2) 256GB SSD drives and the mini SSD is not a member of the RAID.

I read some users having issues when upgrading to the Crucial mini SSD 256GB but believe it may be due to not having the additional (2) drives in RAID 0. - 256GB m4 mSATA SSD Works in M6500 (... SORT OF) - Crucial Community.

Reading your post increased my comfort zone to upgrade based on our like RAID configurations.

QUESTION: Did you have any issues when upgrading? (physical and software) Did you need to update the Crucial mini SSD firmware?

My plan is to make a backup and then install Windows 7 Ultimate 64-Bit fresh on to the new mini SSD. I'll also re-create the RAID on the additional 2 drives (SSD) and then move my data back from backup.

In the future I may add another SSD using the optional HDD/SSD caddy for the CD/DVD drive []2nd HDD /SSD Caddy, DELL M6400, M6500, M4600, M4700, M6600,M6700 [OBHD9-SATA-SATA-B] - $42.00 : NewmodeUS, Hard Drive Caddys for Notebooks. I'm thinking adding this later will not require a OS re-install once the 256GB mini is up and operational as the system 'should' see any additional SSD drives in the Caddy as just an added drive.

Thoughts?

Thanks

 

Hi, Rene'

Glad to be of help. But hold on before you hit the buy button - I have some info for you about both the memory and mSATA upgrades and about VMware Workstation 8, assuming that's what you're using.

You are correct that having a quad-core processor means you can upgrade to 32GB on (4) new 8GB DIMMs. But you would be insane to upgrade to -1333 (low-speed) modules for that price from Dell!

You can upgrade to -1600 memories, which is the fastest the m6500 can support without overclocking. I bought mine direct from Crucial. They sell the -1333s for something like $84 per 16-GB pair, and the -1600s are only $87. Running VMware, you definitely care about memory speed - the whole function of VMware is to emulate real hardware. The faster your processor and memory, the less you have to worry about the overhead VMware creates.

But wait! I just upgraded to an mSATA drive as well, and got very surprising results. I would definitely recommend the Mushkin over the Crucial M4 unless you REALLY need the extra 16GB (the Mushkin is 240GB against Crucial M4's 256). But the write speeds are WAY faster at 85,000 IOPS. I have verified this performance advantage on the m6500 hardware using CrystalDiskMark. I already had a Crucial M4 512gb SSD in the 2.5" drive form factor. Comparing that Crucial M4 to the Mushkin MSATA, both get similar read performance (measuring about 280 MB/sec), but the Mushkin is way faster on write, at around 180 (Crucial) vs. 255 (Mushkin) MB/sec.

But wait! Despite those screaming-fast speeds with CrystalDiskMark, the transfer between SSD and SSD is way slower than you would expect. I can transfer from SSD to a rotating hard drive - either the one in the other bay or an external USB3 drive, at a good solid steady 85 MB/sec. The limiting factor here is the write speed of the hard drive. But I can only transfer SSD to SSD at 40 MB/sec, despite the SSDs benchmarking at 200MB/sec+ speed. I have no idea what is going on here. But it seems that ever since I put the 2nd SSD in the system, I get really slow SSD to SSD transfer times in Windows. (remember I already had a Crucial M4 in my primary hard drive slot).

The reason I bring all this up is I don't know if I am doing something wrong or if there is an issue with the m6500's bus that is making SSD to SSD transfers go half as fast as SSD to HDD transfers. But you should know there is a possiblity you could run into the same issue with the mSATA drive you're considering.

See above comments. You want the -1600 speed, and you don't want to get them from Dell. Buy them direct from Crucial for $174 total cost including shipping.

Yes, I did the upgrade myself. Nothing is "difficult". One part is "scary". The first time you take the hinge cover off (prerequisite to removing the keyboard to get to the two two memory slots), you're going to be scared to death that you're going to break it. It's really not hard - you just have to get comfortable with it. Start with the right back corner and get your fingernail under it, and carefully pry it up working your way from right to left side of the system. You don't have to disconnect the ribbon cables - just rotate the hinge cover to move it out of the way with cables still connected. All you need is to access the keyboard screws. The only tool you'll need with be a #0 or #00 philips head screwdriver.

Dell buys the memory from other suppliers. Crucial expressly guarantees the model I cited to be compatible with the m6500 and costs half as much for faster memory. Buying from Dell is crazy.

You definitely want to get modules that are certified compatible with the m6500, but the Crucial product is exactly that - a specific model of memory upgrade intended expressly for the quad-core m6500.

Now on to VMware. Workstation 8 seems to have introduced a situation (bug?) where it can only use about 75% of the available memory on the system for VMs. When I was running my m6500 on 16GB, I had a 12GB Workstation 7 VM. When I upgraded to Workstation 8, my VM wouldn't run until I downsized the memory to 10GB. Of course it would have run with virtual memory paging enabled, but my goal was to run in real memory for performance reasons.

When I upgraded to 32GB, I fantasized about having a dozen different VMs all started up in a team ready to use. What I quickly realized is that 32GB still really isn't very much memory in a VMware environment. My primary work system is a 16GB VM, and I added an 8GB VM (for a total of two VMs), and VMware refused to start the second VM! I had to downsize it to 6GB to get it to run. So apparently, if you have a 32GB system, you are still limited to about 22 GB of actual VMs if you want to avoid paging to virtual memory.

But all that said, given current prices what you want is the biggest capacity of the fastest memory the m6500 can support. That means 32GB of -1600 speed (-12800 model number, I think) memory. Crucial has it guaranteed compatible with the m6500 for $174 total cost. You can't lose.

I also definitely recommend the Mushkin 240GB mSATA SSD. I got it for $200 when NewEgg had it on sale. It seems to have gone up to $250 now, but I'm sure it will come back down. The thing is big enough for your boot drive and a 100GB VM. My thinking had been to use my 512GB Crucial M4 SSD to hold five more ~100GB VMs, but I now realize that 32GB is nowhere close to enough memory to run a half dozen VMs at the same time.

NewEgg has also been intermittently running an $89 special on a Western Digital 1TB HDD for the 2nd drive bay in the m6500. It's showing $109 right now, but every few days they double the discount and it goes down to $89. It's a 5400rpm drive, but that's all you can get right now in 1TB capacity. If you insist on a 7200rpm drive, you have to step down to 750GB. Remember you need 9.5mm max drive thickness. A lot of the 1TB drives on the market are 12mm or thicker.

Hope this helps.

xPat

 

Question for anyone that can answer. Picked up the i7 Coveted for $660. But I have two issues. No COA and the service tag and Express Code doesn't show up on Dell's site. Makes me a little concerned. Very happy to have upgraded from my Dell 1720.

I also have the i5 version of the M6500 I picked up for under 600. It's under warranty till April of next year even.

Kind of torn as to what to keep. I do some light video editing and photoshop. I mainly want the screen res. Should I be that concerned about the lack of COA and service codes showing up?


What do you guys think?

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

 

The Windows COA sticker is likely under the battery.

 

xPat,

Once again, thanks for making the time to provide such a detailed and informative reply! It truly is a Miracle that your posting was Revealed to me right at the moment I’m about to purchase the 32GB memory upgrade from Dell at $399.96 plus tax (432.96), plus shipping (not sure of the rate).

I’m currently using VMware Workstation 9.0.0 build-812388 and the purpose of VMware is to create a Public Key Infrastructure (PKI) laboratory testing PKI as well as Public Key Enabling (PKE) of applications, appliances and architectures.

At this time, I am configuring an Active Directory environment simulating a client’s infrastructure. Currently, I have running 11 virtual machines consisting of Windows 2003 Server (32-Bit) and a few Windows 2003 (64-Bit) systems with an AD of one Root Domain and two Child Domains. Eventually, portions of the infrastructure will be upgraded to Server 2008R2 with I imagine about 12-15 running VMs.

Performance of the VMs is not too much of a concern as this is a lab environment with functionality playing more of an important role. An example would be the current 32-Bit DCs use 348MB of memory each in the VM.

I’m thinking of adding more CPU to each VM as I accepted the defaults of 1 processor, 1 core per processor with a total processor core of 1 for each DC and application server. I believe I’ll need to rebuild the OS’s if I make modifications to the CPU so I haven’t experimented with building an environment with more CPU utilization just yet. With all the VMs running the CPU usage of the host (Windows 7 Ultimate 64-Bit) barely moves indicating I could probably provide more CPU to each VM and still be okay overall.

I’m going to purchase the Crucial memory and Mushkin 240GB mSATA you mentioned – Thanks!

The purpose for replacing the current Samsung 64GB mSATA is because my OS is on this drive now with approximately 9.49GB of available free space. The two additional 256GB Samsung SSD PM800 2.5” drives are configured in RAID 0 and where the VMs are stored and run from. Due to the space availability on the mSATA, I began to install some of the program files (MS Office 2010, Acronis True Image 2013 and VMware Workstation 9.0) on the RAID. I haven’t spent too much time on this, but I’d rather install the OS and all applicable program files on the mSATA leaving the RAID for hosting all the VMs and related laboratory files.

For backup, I’m using a Western Digital My Book 1.0 TB USB 3.0 external drive with Acronis as the backup/restore software of the VM files. I’m not backing up the VMs within themselves but just the raw files so I can restore the entire lab if need be due to catastrophic failure of the host (M6500) or the actual Virtual lab environment due to PKEnablement (trial and error of lab testing).

Sorry for all the detail, but I wanted to describe the purpose of the additional RAM and mSATA drive.

I’ve been thinking of adding an additional SSD using an external drive caddy to replace the current CD/DVD slot load unit as I’ve just moved past 50% utilization of the RAID drive space. I’ve been looking into the one offered by Newmodeus []2nd HDD /SSD Caddy, DELL M6400, M6500, M4600, M4700, M6600,M6700 [OBHD9-SATA-SATA-B] - $42.00 : NewmodeUS, Hard Drive Caddys for Notebooks placing a possible 512GB 2.5” SSD in order to store more active VMs if need be.

I thought about the speed of using the caddy (SATA II I believe is the connection for the drive unit to the system) to run VMs vs using a USB 3.0 external mechanical drive – thoughts? It seems as though most of the SSD drives are SATA III so placing them into the caddy using a SATA II connection may be a limiting factor but noticeable in real world running VMs?

I may try running the lab from the USB 3.0 external WD one day to see if there is a noticeable difference in the speed of the systems and overall virtual lab environment.

Have you looked into placing an additional SSD drive using the method I described?

I like the speed and quiet of the SSD drives of this mobile PKI laboratory vs my desktop with all the fans blowing. For me, it makes it easy to concentrate when multiple machines are running with very little noise.

I think I understand now the DDR3 PC3-1280 is another way Crucial describes the speed which is actually DDR3-1600 where I am now using 16GB of DDR3-PC1333?

I copied a 5.63GB .ISO image from the RAID to the current Samsung mSATA and the Win 7 application provided details of not less than 100MB/s during the copy with a spike in the 200’sMB/s in the very beginning. I then copied the same file from the mSATA to the RAID which was much faster showing 216MB/s for the slowest reading with an initial peak in the upper 900MB/s.

Besides using a benchmark utility, what are you using to measure the write performance of the SSD drives in your system? Are you using what is provided during the copy/paste in the Windows 7 dialog box?

If you like, I can create a few VMs with the memory settings you attempted using VMware workstation 9.0 once the memory arrives in the event the new version fixed the bug or memory utilization limitation.

Thanks again so much for all your help and detailed responses. I feel much better now about the memory purchase, mSATA purchase and installation of both.

Any advice is much appreciated as I won’t make the purchase online until either later this evening or some time tomorrow. I’ll probably use NewEgg for the drive and Crucial direct for the memory.

 

Nope. Not that much of a nube. Just a solid black and some remnants of what probably was the coa.
I'm imaging the drive and going to try and put it on the ssd. When I put win8 on it it should make the matter moot. Dell found the s rvice code. I think the website is having issues recognizing codes. So I'll give it till Monday or so.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

 

Glad to be of help.

If you're not in a hurry, I suggest waiting for the Mushkin SSD to come back down to $209, the price I paid. It's $249 now but Newegg keeps putting it on sale.

You need to know there is a lot of talk on the net about mSATA SSDs not being recognized in m6500s when the two drive bays are set up in a RAID configuration. If I remember right there is a workaround, but I don't remember the details because I didn't have RAID so it didn't matter to me. Suggest you google it yourself before your mSATA drive arrives.

The mSATA drive doesn't come with the screw you need to mount it in the system. It won't work without a mounting screw. I think somebody in this forum many pages ago posted where to get one and what size it is. I already had a compatible screw from work.

You'll love the crucial memory. Mine has been running flawlessly since I installed it. I feel like I can actually notice the speed improvement but I may just be kidding myself. When you go to their website, put in m6500 quad core to their upgrade advisor wizard, and it will give you a list of recommended upgrades. Be sure to choose the faster -1600 aka -12800 memory.

I read someplace that a good SSD is actually statistically more reliable than a RAID1 mirror set because the SSD's MTBF is so much higher. I'm not sure I buy that argument, but my point is you might reconsider whether RAID1 redundancy on HDDs could be replaced by
RAID0 volume striping of SSDs for similar net reliability and much more economic use of total SSD capacity.

Glad I could be helpful.

xP

 

Just an fyi if anyone cares. Dell has alerted me that the nice shiny covet was reported lost or stolen, hence the service tag issues. So it's going back to the seller, and when I get my money back, I'll let him know the situation with the laptop. I guess in the grand scheme it doesn't matter to whoever buys it if they don't need dell service and are fine with the OS on it or are buying an upgrade. Wouldn't in good conscious keep it anyway. Sucks for whoever's it was.

So I'll be living with the i5 version. Anyone here have it and want to post their thoughts on it? Thought it'd be a bit of an upgrade over the Inspiron 1720 for not a lot of money.

 

- Did you ever find an answer to this question? I was thinking of adding a SSD via an external encolsure [NexStar CX] found at the following URL:

Vantec – Vantec NexStar CX - NST-200SU-BK - 2.5" SATA to USB 2.0 & eSATA External Hard Drive Enclosure

and based on tests of SSDs and external enclosures at the following URL:

Jonathan Kehayias | Looking at External Disk Performance using USB 3.0 and eSATA with SSD

It seems as though an SSD may perform better via the eSata port vs USB 3.0. The drive I'm thinking of purchasing is a Sata III SSD at the moment but I'm thinking the eSata port on the M6500 is Sata II?

Correct?

I'm also wondering from a performance perspective if using an Optical Caddy to store the SSD in the CD/DVD slot would be faster/slower than the eSata port using an SSD Sata II or III drive?

Intel RST lists the CD/DVD drive with a Sata transfer rate of 1.5Gb/s and the mSata and 2.5" SSDs as 3.0Gb/s but perhaps this is a factor of the device attached and not the connection? I have 1mSata SSD and two additional SSDs in the other Sata ports which show the 3.0Gb/s.

Rene

 

Hi Guys

Hope someone can help me. I have just got a second hand M6500, but cannot seem to get the SD card reader to recognise any SD cards. I checked the drivers and installed the latest texas intrument driver A03_r247353 and this sucessfully installed. Checked the device manager for any orange triangle but the SD Host adapter seems OK and states SDA Standard compliant SD host controller When I go into "Computer" there is still no SD drive showing when I put a card in. Anyone had a similar issue and fix it.

I have Windows 7 Ultimate 64 bit and the only hardware warning sign showing up is for a broadcom USH device. Not sure which driver I require for this.