E6400 overheating throttling

I'll be running a lot of development tools like Visual Studio .Net, for example, and Eclipse (for Java coding). And I do a lot of stress test type of work, so the CPU will get plenty of hard work. Should I be worried?

I guess the only way to really know is to just roll the dice, order the E6400 system, try it out, and if it can't keep up with me then return it and get the T400 and be miserable with that CTRL key .

 

For me I make large software in Flash (and a third party software which extends Flash greatly and makes it stand alone). Which is preatty resource intensive stuff when reaching large project, I too have Visual Studio .Net, and Eclipse for Java. I also run several Virtual Machine with Virtual PC for previous Windows version for software testing, and Virtual Box for Ubuntu for university. (I also game on it as small breaks when I am not home (I have a gaming computer at home))
I manage well with P8400. As maybe you are more in the work field perhaps the P8600 might fit your needs better. The T series is interesting due to the larger L2 cache, but you will have a nice reduction of battery life.

 

The P9600 actually has a 6mg cache as well (it's a 2.66 Ghz CPU). I noticed from your sig though that you are overclocking. I would avoid that personally since I'd never want to do anything to void the NBD warranty .

I wonder if the T400 has a better heat sink design? Anyway, it sounds like you are not having the overheating problems with what you're doing, correct? Always nice to meet a fellow developer .

 

Ah yes, I did not see that one. Just make sure the power consumption is not too high over the P8000 series, if battery life is important.

Actually, I overclocked my GPU only, and its a manual profile loaded overclock done with Nvidia tool.. I don't increase the voltages so I don't risk from damaging it. The only potential damage is temperature, however I am under of what the Quadro GPU's are design to handle. And several security measure are set by the GPU like crash the drivers, unload the profile, or shut-down. Yes, the life of the GPU will diminish... but the life of a laptop is about 3 years... 4 years if you push it. And that is what I expect to hold my system for.
Beside if it breaks down, all I do is plug my HDD on a different computer, remove the Nvidia tool and profiles, put it back in the system, and there you go it just died from overheating. Or to make things more interesting, I put the motherboard in the microwave for a few seconds, and now you have so many random problems the motherboard will need to be replaced and unless ell X-ray each motherboard they receive (which is VERY expensive), they won't know what hit it.
Also, I rarely overclock it. I use my desktop gaming PC when I can.. which is far more enjoyable (and quieter under load).

In additional note, my overclock is more of a light overclock based on the actuall speed. You see the Quadro NVS 160M is a Geforce 9300M and the 9300M is a broken 9600M, where 4 of it's cores are disabled and laser cut out (probably 1 or more of them are broken), and then down clock to fit the 9300M specs, but slightly increased for CAD to fit Dell needs. That is what my research concluded.

No overheat problem here.

There is one thing thus.. that one is a little annoying. This is my first laptop so I don't know if all powerful laptop have his problem. Because Flash is not GPU accelerated (not even the videos), when you play for a few minutes some youtube (Flash based) video the motherboard northbrige heats up as the CPU does tasks it was not design to do (draw really fast), so the fan kicks in at full speed. I think that the fan kicks in too easily based on the northbrige temperature, but that is that. Until Adobe decides to continue development of Flash, and have GPU accelerated video, I see becoming a problem.

Even Microosft Silverlight surpassed Flash. Seriously, since Adobe aquired Macromedia, Flash development just stop. They just finish off what Macromedia was working on, added a crappy UI that requires a super computer to run, doubled the price of the product and that is all. It's just stopped. I hope this will change.

 

I agree. It is the poor contact that is giving the difference in CPU and GPU temp. I've taken some thermodynamics but this was long time ago. What i remember is if the "thermal resistance" was equal at the contacts points of the CPU and GPU, we will see they are more or less same temp. This will be the case even if either of them dissipate more heat(higher power), if the cooling fins/fan can't cool it enough the hotter one will just heat up the other proc to bring the temp. of both to a higher temp. and stabilize at some temp. point where the cooling is equal to the combined dissipation.

Question:

1. In the Intel GMA solution, is the graphic solution provided by the physical northbridge?(I see in the Nvidia version the heatpipe makes a "L" shaped turn and contacts first the northbridge(ICH) then the CPU and finally the GPU before terminating with the radiating fins. But on the intel solution, it the northbridge and cpu parts are valid but because there is nothing here in place of the discreet GPU, nothing happens.)

2. When these temp. monitoring applications(everest, i8kfangui, etc) report a reading called chipset, are they refering to some specific device/chip on the mobo(northbridge?) or is it entirely something else?

 

That depends on the motherboard. Some does the average from the southbridge and northbridge (usually on powerful motherboards, like these: http://eprim.org/i/0810/gigabyte-ga-ex58-extreme-motherboard-2.jpg, where they are great heaters). But, on low end, it's the northbridge as the southbridge does all the little things.

 

To dcp12345678 2nd reply:

Yes. I have GMAx4500. Years ago IBM took right approach in T4X/T43 ... they put Radeons on one heatpipe and chipset+cpu on the second. Theoretically this eliminates heating up CPU by GPU. So in my opinion - yes it is BAD DESIGN when you put dedicated GPU on same heatpipe with CPU and chipset to be honest. Dell did understand this by putting (some time ago) wider=bigger heatpipe in E6400 NVS systems.

Well I meant first part of T400 (not T400s) which had keyboard with cut-outs to reduce weight (and this in effect brought a bit of flex) that was corrected in later iterations of T400 and for 100% in T400s.

My coworkers at work have D630 , D530 - keyboard in this units is less "responsive". Keys do not resist any way - I mean they just dip easly when pushed. As to smuggy fingerprints - it is a bit due too rough (not polished) facture of new keyboard keys. I dont know but I didn't find it bothering me alot - maybe I have less sweatty hands.

I found black very nice , well it's business style that I was after. I mean even with total black You won't be dissapointed.

Best choice would be P serie processor (P9500 - less heat, less price but still 6MB cache). For me 2 GB is fine (also with Vista). I choose GMA - but it is up to You (they did change cooling for bigger so .. no point of missing NVS now). WXGA+ LED lcd is a must .My advice is a bit crazy but it could be right choice: but P8600/2 GB ram/ ... and other cash spend on OCZ Vertex 60GB/120GB. Difference in behavior of your laptop will be MUCH bigger with this SSD than with P9700 or 4GB ram PERIOD. .

IMPORTANT NOTE:
I did found some distracting behaviour. BIOS is A12. Watching HD 1920x1080p did nothing (cpu 17-39%) GMA 48-55 ... Cinebench R10 rendering put CPU in 55 C and GPU 58-60 (but in spikes only). Here funny thing starts , lately I installed Google Earth ... and here is the thing GEarth takes 400 MB ram, puts CPU into 60-80% of use and sadly 60-63 C for GMA. Same goes with HD Youtube (flash?bug). Other application windows moved above open GEarth leave "pixel smugges" on maps ! Crazy stuff! But this happens only when laptop was turned on after beeing cooled at night then I open GEarth and in next 15 minutes CPU-50/GMA-63 .... it seems that fan won't kick in, but when it does all is great and works perfect, and deffinitely GMA version is cooler - CPU is 28/ 33 C , GMA 39 -45 C max , when fan is only at low speed. GEarth works like an charm.
Conclusion's:
A) Dell put same temp-tables in BIOS for GMA and NVS models (highly inprobable for me)
B) Thermal diode did not work correctly until whole inside of case change its temperature (where they put it then ...)
C) GMA vs. NVS is always cooler but thing is , different heatpipes (old and new bigger one which works better) in systems with NVS bring different effects, thermal table in BIOS is incorrect for some systems, diode is fault in some systems. GMA is waaaay cooler (idle temps show it) but thermal diode have to work and thermal table has to be correct. Fan has to kick in and work on low mode. Remember that all GMA models are still on smaller heatpipe.

 

BIOS A14 is out. Did you try that?

When you play Flash video content it should not use the GPU as it's not GPU accelerated. It's the northbridge that is being used as the CPU is being used. Nvidia is trying to push Adobe to make Flash GPU accelerated so othat this stupidity stops and that netbooks users can play videos smoothly.

Anyway,
If you need 3D or GPU rendering, go with Nvidia solution, else go with Intel. In my case I did not pick the NVS 160M to game, but rather because I did not want an application to crash on me due to Intel terrible driver (it's per applications basis, so if the application needs the GPU and not supported then it may crash). Also, back in November, Intel GMA had teh Samsung panel and the Nvidia had the LG display. Where LG was the best by far, as it was said. Moreover, I wanted smooth experience of Aero, HD video when the system is plug-in, but that seams no problem for the Intel 4500HD. Oh and if I used an application that needed GPU rendering or CUDA to be able to use it properly. I was ready for the lower battery life and possibly increase heat.

I actually have to recommend 4GB of RAM minimum for what you do.
Also, this ensures that page file is not used, meaning increase battery life and performance.
Anyway, this is getting off topic.

 

In case anyone's interested, I had a chat with a Dell sales rep regarding the overheating. The transcript is below. It looks like they recommend the NVidia card if you are doing anything that involves graphics, even something as simple as watching a youtube. There are some other unrelated questions about warranty in there, but I left them in case the answers will benefit someone. Hope this helps.

11:03:56 AM Customer Me
Initial Question/Comment: I am concerned about overheating problems with the E6400 (am considering buying it, but this is a concern).
11:04:06 AM System System
You are now being connected to an agent. Thank you for using Dell Chat
11:04:06 AM System System
Connected with SMB_
11:04:11 AM Agent SMB_
Thank you for contacting the Dell Small Business Chat. My name is ----- and I will be your sales agent today. May I have your e-mail or phone number in case we get disconnected?
11:04:31 AM Customer Me
omitted
11:05:45 AM Customer Me
Hi . Per the subject, I have some concerns about overheating problems with the E6400. The following thread is where I found out that a lot of people were having this problem: http://en.community.dell.com/forums/p/19247293/19391124.aspx?PageIndex=1
11:08:06 AM Customer Me
are you there?
11:09:16 AM Agent SMB_
Yes reading the thread... noticing this person got a system that isn't powerful enough for their applications already though
11:10:12 AM Customer Me
ok, take your time to read the thread, sorry for interrupting
11:13:12 AM Agent SMB_
I've read half way through and everyone that is having issues is using the system for a lot of graphics. The Latitudes aren't built for graphic use. The video cards can't handle it.
11:13:23 AM Agent SMB_
Will you need to run a lot of video or graphics?
11:15:01 AM Customer Me
I might watch some youtube videos sometimes, but I will be doing mainly development work on it. But I've heard there's a bad heatsink design on this model, like the GPU and CPU use the same heatpipe or something.
11:15:52 AM Agent SMB_
You would want to get the 160 M video card then you would be fine. The GMA integrated will overheat on you
11:17:20 AM Customer Me
I've got my choices narrowed down to this model and the Lenovo Thinkpad T400. Can you give me your thoughts on what makes this a good laptop?
11:21:10 AM Customer Me
I guess what I'm looking for is what makes this better than the T400. One thing I like about Dells is that the support is good .
11:24:24 AM Customer Me
Let me also say that I have the D630 at work, and it's been a pretty good machine. All in all I've been happy with the Dells I've had, except for my Dell Inspiron 1520 (the backlight just died and it's costing me $245 to fix!)
11:24:45 AM Agent SMB_
The Latitude is more durable, has newer processor options, takes more memory, and we have our support
11:26:04 AM Customer Me
I am thinking of getting the 4Yr Basic Ltd Warranty and NBD On-site Service. So if I have a problem, do I just open a chat session?
11:26:35 AM Agent SMB_
Yes there is a chat tech support
11:27:14 AM Customer Me
So like if my hard drive dies, for example, I can open a chat session and they'll be out to fix it next business day, right?
11:29:05 AM Customer Me
Also, I'm thinking of buying a refurbished laptop from the outlet. Is there anything to be concerned about with buying a refurb, like dead pixels, scratches, etc.?
11:31:31 AM Agent SMB_
I don't work in the refurbished department so I don't know what their systems are like. IT will still be next business day as long as you are at your address on file
11:33:21 AM Customer Me
But for the overheating thing, you are confident that the NVidia card will prevent any overheating issues, right? By the way, my D630 has integrated intel graphics, and I watched a DVD on it without any problems. Is the overheating thing new to the E6400 because of the redesigned heatsink?
11:40:07 AM Agent SMB_
The Nvidia will work great for your needs. The E6400 was completely redesigned and has a lot more features than the D630 did. That's part of the GMA card issue
11:41:10 AM Customer Me
You mean the extra features cause the overheating with the GMA card?
11:43:03 AM Agent SMB_
some of them yes
11:44:40 AM Customer Me
Ok, one more question on the warranty. Are the batteries covered?
11:44:53 AM Agent SMB_
for the first year yes.
11:45:56 AM Customer Me
Seems like there was some other kind of battery warranty you could buy separately for after the first year, is that right?
11:47:14 AM Agent SMB_
yes you can add a warranty for year 2 and 3
11:48:37 AM Customer Me
Also, what is the difference between 256MB NVIDIA Quadro NVS 160M and NVIDIA Quadro NVS 160M? Does the one that doesn't say "256MB" have less memory?
11:51:07 AM Agent SMB_
That is the same card. One should say with express and the other with PC Card
11:51:39 AM Customer Me
You are right . So what's the difference between express card and pc-card? Is one better than the other?
11:55:23 AM Agent SMB_
no just different types of slots. If you get the PC Card you will be able to get an adapter to use express cards as well
11:56:13 AM Customer Me
ok, I think that answers everything. I'd like to thank you for your help!

 

I just called Dell support about this.

The service rep didn't know about the problem. He basically said that he couldn't do anything about if the fan programming/throttling is by design.

I said that full speed fan for normal office tasks or web browsing in a 27C room is not acceptable for an expensive business laptop and neither is throttling when running apps like Google Earth and the chipset isn't reaching higher temps than 55C.

I said that complaints like mine must be known to the ones designing the laptops and at least he agreed to pass on the details to his mentor/supervisor and come back to me.