Dell Precision M3800 - 2013!

In fact, they're oblivious to such things. If it has similar Mac features Dell won't have to do much more to get them to climb aboard.

 

IMO this only reinforces the value of Dell making the M3800. This means that a single vendor has a temporary monopoly (in a loose sense) at a company, and they should release products that help IT departments encourage the purchase of that brand and products internally. I'll explain my thinking on this point below.

The company where I work has standardized on Lenovo laptops (in the same 3 year upgrade cycle) for Windows laptops, and ~2 years ago people *officially* only ran Lenovo laptops. But some people grumbled about this lack of choice, especially people who traveled frequently and spent their lives exclusively inside a web browser, email and MS Office. Some people used their personal machines (both Mac and non-Mac) without telling the company, and others got their Managers to push through exceptions for Macs so they could have a thinner/lighter laptop.

This was combined with a major IT change. The company where I work has an enterprise software stack. Historically people had multiple versions of the entire stack installed on their base Windows OS. This was a major headache for a lot of reasons, so some people started creating VMs for each version. The IT group realized the value of this and moved to building these VMs and providing them to everybody offically. Now most everybody runs these VMs. So even if you have a Windows laptop, you were running a Windows VM on top of Windows. Multi-core machines, 8+ GB of RAM, and SSDs have made it so there are minimal performance issues with this.

This all but killed the "need" for Windows machines since so many people can work exclusively in a VMs. Still most everybody is either forced or encouraged (depending on your job position) to get a Lenovo.

So now, imagine that people who need at 15.6" screen and 16GB of RAM want more portable laptops. Lenovo offers nothing like this. My company is not going to get laptops from a different Windows-based vendor. But getting an Apple/OSX laptop is a different matter entirely, and so some people are going to chose Macs to get a more portable machine. The end result is that a few months ago Macs were added - officially - to the purchasing system. Managers need to approve a Mac purchase, but it's becoming easier to get that approval.

Dell is in the same boat at companies where Dell is the approved vendor. People are going to ask for thinner and lighter laptops like the M3800. If Dell makes them, they can use the exclusivity of their purchasing agreements to say "We have a thin and light workstation. Make your people get this." Otherwise they are going to lose business to Apple.

Personally, I'm in the same boat. I like Windows. But I'm not a fan of the W530 when I travel. If Lenovo has a M3800 competitor when I'm due for an upgrade I'll probably get that. Otherwise I'm getting an rMBP.

Or I might even tell my manger about the M3800 (he loves shiny things) and see if he can make a fuss to get that for his team. But it'll be much easier to get a Mac

 

^^ If apple products weren't so locked down, if rMBP had RJ45 and expresscard, if the cooling was adequate, if there was no choppy graphics with retina on many occasions....if... the list goes on and on. I owned a rMBP briefly and couldn't live with all the limitations/issues. It's not a business machine but rather a huge gimmick. Kudos to Apple for their excellent marketing campaign. Shame on us for getting trapped so esily.

 

There are people at very big companies (e.g. Google, Cisco) and Academic researchers using Apple laptops and they are happy with them. This includes people who actually need the power of workstation laptops (e.g. Developers, Data Scientists, Consultants, Physicists doing modeling, etc).

All these people have not been sucked into a huge gimmick. They've found what works for them and they are doing serious work on these machines. By that measure they are not just business machines, but serious and proper business machines.

My point was not to single out the rMBP as the ideal machine - I was using it to illustrate the value in that design. My point was that companies like Dell need to make machines like the M3800 so they can compete in this space. The technology exists now to make a thin and light workstation laptop that can satisfy a lot of serious users. So why not make that machine and compete?

If you want or need an Expresscard, Ethernet Port, Docking Station, super-duper cooling, etc there is the M4x00. But, assuming Dell builds it properly, there will also be plenty of users who are happy with the M3800.

 

I don't think there's anyone arguing that there's a market for rMBP, its just the question of adding its Dell equivalent to the Precision line.

Sorta like Michael Phelps suddenly showing up to play on the Heat basket ball team. A fish out of water shall we say?

 

I agree about the main point - competing in this space for Dell may be a good idea. I don't agree however, regarding Apple notebooks. In the past I used to work for big IT companies that used solely MBP's and MBA's, as well as 10k user enterprises who banned macbooks by default. Can macbooks be used as business machines? - Surely! If virtual box or VMWare player is all you need to setup your perfect working environment; if CoRD is all you need to vpn to your office and get access to the datacenter; if all your apps can be run in a virtual environment and don't require proprietary hardware plugs or legacy ports like RJ11, expresscard, firewire; if you are ok with dongles for ethernet and don't need compatibility with specific WWAN modules; etc...
From my perspective, macbooks lack versatility to qualify for a good business solution. Many professionals require a broad range of connectivity options, upgradeability of components, decent amount of internal storage, NBD onsite support, etc. You can have 5.5TB of storage in M6700 vs 768GB for rMBP and no RAID.
That + lack of RJ45 are 2 huge deal breakers for me. As a network engineer I can't have an extra dongle and waste another usb/tb port. Also, my mobile VM lab is over 1TB.

 

I don't think it's a fish out of water at all.

Let's compare the M3800 to the current base M4700. The base M4700 comes with an i5 (dual core), a 1366x768 screen, 2GB of RAM, and a 320GB hard drive.

If you are talking about computing power and capabilities excluding expandability, the M3800 stomps the base M4700 into the ground.

Dell has no problem calling the base M4700 a "Precision Mobile Workstation." Even if you pick the most expensive version (before customizing it) on the Dell page . you have a quad core, K2000 GPU, 1080P screen, 16GB of RAM, and a 128GB SSD. Again, the M3800 can match all these specs with exception of .5ghz (my estimation) of CPU speed.

Additionally (IMO), part of what defined Dell's Precision line was that it was their premier business line. I think the M3800 maintains this considering no Latitude or Vostro (is Vostro dead now?) will match it in specs (e.g. the GPU and Screen). The M3800 is a premier class laptop in this regard.

The final question is, are ports and expandability essential for a laptop to be called a Precision Workstation.

To me this is a hard question to answer. Ports and expandability are at odds with extreme portability. There are users who need those ports, and there are users who would gladly give up that expandability for portability.

At the end of the day, sales volume will answer the question of expandability being, or not being, a requirement for a Precision Workstation.

This same debate is happening in different forms for the Mac Pro (is internal expandability required for it to be a Mac Pro), the Thinkpad (they have changed/changing the keyboard, trackpad, and physical design) still being a Thinkpad, and will continue to be there as technology evolves and line that defines the "Pro" moniker becomes increasingly fuzzy.

Imagine the fuss in 2 years when iGPUs are powerful enough for the majority of pro users and some workstations no longer offer a discrete GPU as an option

 

And another important factor that defines the Precision line is the workstation-class GPU and ISV certification. For me, that factor alone puts the m3800 into the Workstation category.

The size, the weight, the expandability and the presence/absence of certain ports, are more a question of usability of this workstation for particular tasks, rather than a disqualifying factor for the Precision line in general.

kto is absolutely right: if m4700 in its minimal configuration can still be called a Precision workstation, then why not m3800? It definitely belongs there. A lot of professionals will be thrilled to finally get a thinner and lighter workstation-class laptop. But if it's not sufficient for someone's needs, then there are other Precision models to choose from.

 

We all know the answer, the sales will be good and the majority will accept the new trend. The majority won't need extreme upgradeablity and ports, but that's the whole point, if you drop the extremes, you might as well stop calling it a mobile workstation. At that point, you have an armada of consumer laptops that can serve the purpose. And how many professionals actually need all the ISV certs?? Why would I need to pay extra for a 15" mobile workstation that has less features than a 13" Sager. Moreover, that 15" Dell won't last me half as long as that 13" Clevo due to very limited expandability. Is mobility the main driving force here? After using a rMBP I can say that it's not that mobile at all. I still needed a decent bag for it due to the 15" format, and could never hold it in one hand the same way I can handle 12.5-13" machines. So it was solely the weight reduction, nothing else. Even though I move a lot during my normal work day, visit server rooms, different remote sites, go on various meetings, - I don't really feel that an extra kilogram makes a huge difference. I have both a 3.5kg thinkpad and 1.9kg elitebook and the reason I prefer the later is that it's just as powerful (upgraded!) and I can actually hold it by the edge with one hand while using it, which is very convenient when being in server rooms with no desks and need to perform a few quick operations. Anyway, after using 12.5, 13, 14, 15, 17 and 18.4 inchers extensively for years, I'd settle for a 13" FHD + quad-core + 16GB ram + 2-3TB of storage and all the features like WWAN, RJ45, 4xUSB3.0, etc. But since the only machine that has all these features, has an onboard nvidia 765M (and I hate both Nvidia cards and soldered components), I have no choice but consider other screen sizes

 

If you can live with a 13" FHD, then you obviously don't need a Precision workstation.