Windows 7 Activation Technologies Update

Hey guys...

Just read this over on Engadget.

http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/windows-7-activation-technologies-update-coming-down-the-pike/

From what I understand it is an optional update, but anybody with 'less than legit' copies of Windows 7 might be thrown into the dark. Apparently this update is designed to alert consumers of 'dangerous' copies of win 7 which may include backdoors and trojans and leave your computer wide open to various security risks.

So, what do you guys think?

 

I think it'll be intresting.

 

I think this is good.
Less worms, less infecting others. It's there problem for not purchasing Windows 7 ESPECIALLY after ALL the incredible offers made by Microsoft.

I think the idea behind this, is to inform users who got Windows 7 but isn't legit (ie: on the internet on eBay or craiglist for instance), and ensure that their fake copy is not packed with pre-loaded infections, malware, worms, and such.

 

Or PC's bought from smaller independant companies who arn't suppying properly licensed OS's on their systems while the customer makes their purchase thinking its all above board.

 

i tested some cracks. some of the most common downloaded ones (googles first hits) definitely have viruses in that most antivir software doesn't really detect.

i'd like to not see it optional, that update

 

Totally agree with that.

 

I agree with the entire deal, I think itl be beneficial to the company

 

Engadget article linked to in first post:

I wonder if they have any legitimate reason to suspect the update will permanently be running. It sounds to me like a one-time scan should be sufficient.

 

read on... soon ms will release wat. wat is windows activation technologies. this will be a updated tagged as important and will install quietly and not ask of you to do so. currently ms is going to be checking they say every 90 days but they can and may make it even less time than that in shorter intervals. please read here to explain in full detail how this will work.

http://lauren.vortex.com/archive/000681.html

 

no read the thread i just posted. ms will be calling home at LEAST every 90 days they are stating. and possibly sooner if they feel the need at a later date. so just because you own a legit copy and have been legit for say 2 years and you have a oem dell say that came with win7 but after 2 years for whatever reason you system has anything that slightly matched the signatures of he wat database you will then be marked non genuine and it can not simply be reversed. the changes will be permanent unless following the ms way of becoming genuine again. this is not just a one time thing at all...

 

I wonder why Microsoft doesn't just implement a check every time a system downloads Windows Updates. That could be a completely seamless integration into the current update system, instead of pushing out new software and doing the updates and license checks separately.

 

Well why would honest users have anything to worry about if they know they have genuine copies of windows 7?

Still though... I'll stick to XP thanks. Don't need big brother checking in on me.

 

because if for ANY REASON WHATSOEVER say after 2 years ms has been saying you were genuine with a legit oem dell or hp branded machine, their signature database for wat now included something that triggers it on your system you automatically get the non genuine notice. at this time i know this:

the new wat can read the bios,
it can see the slic info the date etc,
it can read the acpi tables.
it looks at certain hardware
among other things etc.

so lets just say you buy a dell. you are a happy win 7 user going on 2 years. dell releases a new bios update that maybe they did not design according to the wat standards properly. guess what... you will be tagged as non genuine once it checks in with the server. this is JUST A EXAMPLE but this could mean a LOT of potential for genuine and legit users being tagged as non genuine and thrown under the bus imo. now of course if you contact ms and can somehow convince them (which i am told will be MUCH HARDER than it used to be after wat) you are legit they will help you fix it and be on your way. if not as the article says better break out he wallet if you want to fix it.

as what happend with wga a long while back where a lot of legit users get non genuine status this will im happen a lot more with wat. i have the update and have had it for a while now even though its unreleased. i have also spoke with my ms contacts about it and i know how wat works. and i can say personally this may cause a lot of headache's for a lot of people. i was asked not to post any info till now though as was the article poster i linked to.

 

Engadget is very pro-Apple, so their "resource worry" comment should ignored. It's not that 2kilobytes of RAM lost that will do anything on your 4GB system.

So, I ask.. I think it already does that by default. I read that if you try to install Windows 7 on a second machine, the first machine will become deactivate after a few days or week later (I assume it's when the 90-day time kicks in to phone home)

What?! I don't know if you know this, but your product key label on your OEM system, is not there for decoration (well porvide you with a product key), but it also serves as proof of purchase (notice the code bars and some other number on it). In the case something happen, a phone activation can be performed and they can verify that your copy of Windows is legit or not. If that fails, your laptop bill will say if it comes with Windows 7 or not, and from there they can provide you with a new product key. The phone call is quick, easy, free and provided in front of you on the activation box.

So far, this was never an issue to anyone, meaning it lead them to run to the store and buy a new WIndows license. All cases I heard about, was resolved with a simple phone call to either the OEM or Microsoft.

 

I have a legitimate copy of windows 7 via MSDN, but this is the exact reason I have my updates set to "tell me when there is an update and let me decide what to do" I know my system is legitimate, and I don't like the way MS is going about this.

 

but without this installed you will be prevented from many other updates. i have also been suggested to this will COME with some other updates now even if you choose not to install it..

 

Your system ALREADY phones home to Microsoft NOW — an article on this from 2006 is at http://arstechnica.com/old/content/2006/06/7017.ars — so this is nothing new.

Welcome to the world of GUILTY UNTIL PROVEN INNOCENT. This is what we get for supporting Microsoft products.

 

it will not be so easy in the future. i know someone directly at ms. i have spoke with them about this. and i dont want to sound rude but dont be so soon to speak this happened with wga when it was first released. ms has stated they will now require proof this is your system, they have yet to state what that is but after him telling me places like best buy and acer have had coa lic's either stolen or resold this is something they are looking at. the ones you get on the bottom of the system. and btw those are only there for activation and are not the actual product keys installed. if you knew really how this works you would know oem systems use a oem slp key. so all dell systems technically use THE SAME key for that version of win 7 to match a xrml certificate used for bios verification of the slic table contained inside it. the one on the bottom is simply for install purposes. the real key is already installed in the system by the oem.

and i was also told once non genuine it will not be a simple click to unlock process...

 

Actually, this is what happens when piracy rates are in the mid double digits.

 

that is nothing like how this will work now. this will be a continual phone home. every x days at which ms will determine currently every 90 days. this will be a whole new system. note from the article you linked to

"Windows Genuine Advantage's behavior seems a bit more innocuous than iTunes. Although Microsoft has not disclosed what information the application is transmitting, chances are high that it consists of a user's IP address, Windows serial number, and product key. There's nothing terribly alarming in that list. It could also be checking in to see if it should disable itself. The only major cause for concern that I can see is the tool's "malfunctioning" and incorrectly informing users that they do not have a legitimate copy of Winodws."

now windows can actually go a lot further and read a LOT more info than before. its fine for those that like this type of policy but i know most do not. as i do not. i repair systems every day and have seen tons of systems being flagged as non genuine in the past that were legit systems. i have had to fix tons of them for customers...

 

I am PERFECTLY aware of that. It is the OEM responsibility to keep their product key safe, and provide a replacement key to all, if needed. Also, you can use the product key at the bottom of the laptop as a second key. The bottom product key is deactivate by default, a call with Microsoft will activate it free of charge (do phone activation on the Activation box).

In any case, if proof of purchase is needed, forwarding your e-mail which contains the bill of your laptop (or fax or scan and e-mail) to Microsoft as proof of purchase is not very difficult to do.

If you come to them, scream, be impatient, or worst insult them, then believe me the other person on the phone will either hang up on you, or will say "no" as an answer for you to leave them, or will make your life so much harder (ie: millions of transfer, annoy you with strange request like (we don't accept e-mails, we want a fax when in reality they do take e-mail's), make you wait long hours, and so on). Being very nice always made me end up with a quick call, and with finish with an answer that fit my satisfaction (by being reasonable, of course) - yes, sometimes I fall with a new person, or miss trained person, but a second call solved my problem.

If your OEM and Microsoft could not solve your problem, then never buy form that OEM ever again, as they can't seam to keep their product key safe.

 

i agree with mostly your points. though i do still feel this will cause a lot of genuine users to be upset when they get non genuine status and the normal average user will have no idea what to do. i see this often when people call me and say my xp says its non genuine but i bought it from dell or hp etc.. and then i have to fix it. they dont call ms or get involved because they simply either dont want to or do not know what to do..

 

I cannot help but think this is overkill. I see dozens of PCs each week and most pirated copies are XP. Vista piracy is much rarer. The risk of antaganizing legitimate users seems too great, especially with Linux becoming friendlier and friendlier.

 

Truth.

:yes:

 

If piracy rates are in the double digits this wont make those "50%" or so of users go out and buy windows. they'll just downgrade to XP or vista or crack wat to send data to 127.0.0.1 what microsoft needs to do is stop making crappy products and charging too much for them.

 

As long as this doesn't have to run in the background all the time and waste my dial-up bandwidth. D:

 

i am told it will be a running service.

 

remember turning it off.. no more updates that require validation and also i am told if the service is messed with then you will be non genuine. just fyi

 

no we should have it send them huge packets of data that talk about dividing by 0 until their servers explode. fascinating this hasn't been announced widely im sure when normal people figure it out they'll be pissed.

 

That's an absolute nonsense argument, especially in this case. Windows XP was undoubtedly one of, if not THE best operating system ever, and its piracy rates are much higher than Vista, one of the worst received operating systems ever.

Pirates don't care how good or bad your software is, they only care about getting it for free.

The easiest thing for Microsoft to do is require validation for Windows Updates. It would run behind the scenes, once a week or so, and be completely transparent to then end user.

 

That seems a bit excessive. Hopefully they iron out the false flags before implementing this. As long as false flags don't become a major issue this doesn't seem so bad. What harm will come from the occasional blip on Microsoft's radar?

Any ideas what their reaction to a detection is? Some false detections are likely (from their history) so hopefully it isn't too restrictive. Hopefully they still let people use their systems and get security updates, even if only for a limited amount of time before dealing with it.

 

Can we track the location its coming from?
If we can find a old virus from a file then it can theoretically be reverse-engineered to have a new function that we choose...But to be serious I don't mind this, as long as it doesnt make my ping high for games with a large memory footprint.

 

i has been posted all over the place but its just not been able to be made clear what it will do till now. wat has bee known since win7 was released

i 100% agree about doing the validation with updates. if it were me i would tell people there are updates. then when you click install updates have it validate.

 

Wait why does it need to happen multiple times, when one check will tell them everything is OK?

 

What will they do once they "catch" a pirated copy?

 

users will get a black screen and watermark, along with constant nags. they will still be able to use the system but not update it anymore.

 

Well given the huge amount of compatibility that windows needs to offer, its not bad, but i found myself doing clean installs of XP every 6 months or so, couldve just been my laptop, i dont know, but it was frustrating. I really liked XP64, too bad no one supported it. I have no problem with WAT other than the way it is going to be implemented and I would rather have it do what you've suggested, which is what I thought XP did anyway, but I guess not.

It'll be interesting to see how this 90 day phone in works, because I guarantee you any pirate will crack WAT well before then and MS will come to the conclusion that the only way to combat piracy will be to phone in every boot up. I give a WAT a week after launch to be crippled.

I wonder if WAT will get our finger prints from our finger print readers so we can prosecuted to the full extent of the law, dun dun dun, judge judy presiding: MS vs everyone with a thumb.

 

Because cracking authentication once is relatively easy. Cracking it once a week is too time consuming to be worthwhile.

I'd assume they'd use the same tactics as WGA where you'll start to get notifications at first, and reboots/black screens after a certain period of time.

Not necessarily. By requiring authentication where the computer has to handshake with their servers, Microsoft has much more control.

 

windows will be non genuine a black backround, constant nags and no more updates non critical updates, also from testing so far you will not be able to make windows genuine again very easy. i have wat and have been testing it against some known "workarounds" to see how it works and i have been able to get the non genuine screen and it is not at all easily fixed to genuine status again. with a fully legit slic 2.1 bios as well as reinstalling the dell cert and dell lic key it is still no longer genuine

the "remove wat" that is available online is already disabled with this update. im sure they will try again but this is going to make is MUCH harder for them in the future. it seems this also disables the "original leaked lenovo key" as well for people who used it to activate the wat update seems to at this time make that non genuine as well. ill continue to post my finding as i have them. there are however "fixes" that are still working BUT the wat servers are not online yet once they are ms can add those at will if they decide to.

 

sure but they would only have much more control every 90 days or so and if WAT is on constantly it might ruin the user experience and no one wants that. Though, if MS decides to run WAT more frequently it'll probably set it up to run during idle peroids or right before a shutdown/hibernate/sleep.

 

Another little adventure.......I may have to bust out some cash for a disk drive for my netbook now, to reinstall stock xp......

 

If you know the time and day that the check happens, one could just turn off there wifi or Ethernet to hide from the checker.

 

Even if it ran all the time, the program would be tiny. A quick poll of the hardware, a check for some signatures - that's what? Less than a second?

The whole point of authentication is that it needs to contact the server. Nothing happens as a result of the check until that handshake.

 

The whole point of authentication is that it needs to contact the server. Nothing happens as a result of the check until that handshake.[/QUOTE]

So this works similar to something like punk buster that checks to make sure its on.

 

It's how pretty much all authentication systems other than straight up key-codes work.

 

Ok, here's a hypothetical question: What if the computer is not connected to the internet? Where I work we run a bunch of computers in a simulation environment (which means closed network), so when we upgrade to Windows 7 (and we eventually will) how is it going to call home?

 

Like I said, nothing happens.

 

i have asked this and im waiting on more info

 

I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say. So If I my laptop came with an OEM license for Windows Vista Professional, and I go out and buy a copy of Windows 7 from my school or Microsoft, then because Win 7 is not the OEM system it will be flagged as not genuine?

 

I have a feeling that policy was dictated by the IT policies of many big corporations. Plus, that seems really contradictory. Honestly, WAT is a really stupid idea if it can be circumvented by a firewall policy, because the crackers are just going to figure that out and adapt.