Will laptop makers allow laptop OS to be reinstalled on other machine?

Hi, I have a HP notebook, it has Vista Ultimate 64 on it.
The notebook is broke, and not worth to fix it.
Is there any way I can get a copy of this windows from HP?
Since I actually paid for this piece of software but my notebook is broken and I can not use it anymore. HP never gave me a disc when I bought the machine, only a partition on the hard drive.

I am not sure about the policy on this.

Thanks

 

It's not possible to use your HP vista key on another machine.
That key will only work on that laptop and no other

 

To clarify this post, it's 100% possible from a technical standpoint to install that copy of Vista on another computer. The problem is, it's also 100% illegal.

 

Maybe you can use the serial on the bottom of your notebook with a spare copy of Windows Vista. Then try to activate it.

 

As I stated above... this is 100% possible from a technical standpoint, but NOT legal as it violates the EULA of OEM installations of Windows.

 

Hmm I didn't even think that would work

 

No, you cannot use a preinstalled OEM copy of a WindowsOS on any system other than the system on which it was installed because the product key you have with that copy (basically, a proxy for the license you bought when you bought the system) is locked to the system on which it was loaded.

You could, of course, extract all of the files for the OS from the old system and copy them onto a new system, but you would still need to have a valid license that would cooperate with the new system - which basically means buying another copy of _Vista.

I suppose that if you purchased another version of the exact same make and model as you have now, you might be able to convince Microsoft to permit you to reactivate the original copy of _Vista on that new system on the ground that you had merely upgraded the old system to the point where it no longer conformed to the code underlying the license key, but that would be a pointless exercise since the new _HP would have come with it's own license key and copy of _Vista.

 

its because its a oem license. if you had actually bought a retail boxed version then you can re-use and reactivate it as many times as you want and move it to a new machine. oem versions are techinally only allowed to be installed on that one machine on which they were first installed. will it work? yes 100% you could do it but as stated its againt ms's toc..

 

Shyster1, that's not correct. I know that an OEM key can be used on another computer - I've seen it done. A copy of Vista included with a Dell computer was installed on a custom built computer, using the key on the bottom of the laptop. It activated without error. Is this allowed? Of course not - it's against the EULA. Was the operating system removed from the custom system - yes it was.

It was an interesting experiment, proving that OEM keys (Dell copies, anyway) will work on other machines.

 

I have seen it done with pretty much every OEM under the sun... Dell, Toshiba, Gateway, Acer, HP, Compaq, Whitebox OEMs... probably others.

 

I did it last week, I have a year old hp dv 6500 that came with vista (now has xp on it) and I used the laptop vista serial to activate a vista install on a new computer I just built. No problems, didnt even have to call microsoft

Why should I have to buy another license if I allready paid for one and its not being used?


Although I did not realize that it was against the TOS to do so......

 

i don't think that things should be this way, if i already paid for that software, i should be able to use it on any system i want. if it's not legal then i don't care, who will come to my house and check these things? microsoft?

 

No one will come to your house and check. But why not just download it illegally then? I do not promote this, I am just saying it's the same thing... if you don't agree to their terms then you can't legally use the software.

I do agree that you should be able to move it, but Microsoft has their reasons. An OEM copy of Windows costs less than half of the retail equivalent, so of course there will be limitations.

 

With respect to having installed an OEM royalty copy on non-original equipment, have you actually updated that copy of XP through Microsoft's update agent or website yet? If not, my guess is that that's where you'll get flagged as having a potentially illegal copy of XP running. Otherwise, if you try to download anything from Microsoft, the OS will get validated before the download proceeds, and at that point it'll get flagged.

The bigger problem, however, is that, while you have indeed paid for a license to use a copy of XP, you apparently haven't bothered to actually respect the terms of what you paid for. You didn't pay for a use-it-anywhere license, you paid for a license to use a copy only on the machine that the copy came with, and you got the benefit of that restriction by paying less for the OS than you would have had you purchased that copy of XP at retail.

That problem runs through both posters' positions - neither of you bought the software itself - the property rights inherent in that code still belong to Microsoft - you're only renting it for a certain period of time, and subject to whatever restrictions came along with that rental agreement, including the fact that you agreed to not install the OS on any system other than the one on which it came pre-installed.

Lastly, no, Microsoft is not going to be banging on your door to inspect your computer, and they probably won't even sue you (as they have every right to do) for breach of your licensing agreement when they detect that the copy is not a valid copy; however, you will also not get any of the updates they offer, including the security updates - considering how notorious WindowsOSes are for security holes, that alone would give me pause before I took such a what-me-worry attitude.

 

Okay, I respect you a lot because you know a TON about networking, but I'm going to have to correct you here. It WILL activate. It WILL validate. It WILL update. It WILL NEVER be flagged as invalid. Microsoft has NO WAY of telling if the license has been moved from one system to another. The reason for this is because all OEM licenses are the same. You go out and buy a system builder's OEM, it will be the same exact type of key that Dell or Toshiba or any other brand uses. You don't need a Dell CD to reinstall a Dell license, because the Dell CD is the same as a system builder's disk. So as far as MS knows, you just installed and activated a system builder's OEM.

In fact, there are ways to circumvent the EULA and still install the OEM legally on another computer. Say the motherboard in your HP dies, so you buy a barebone of another laptop, and move over your HDD, memory, wireless card, optical, CPU... everything you can. You are allowed to move over the Windows license, because you're not just putting it on another system (even though it's not the same computer anymore), you can do is as long as you call that a repair of the old system.

 

No if the motherboard dies, the license is gone, and MS will require you to buy a new license (i.e. OEM).

 

If you repair a system, you can transfer the license to the new install of Windows... all that is required is that enough of the system does not chance. You can change the motherboard and video card on a desktop, why not on a laptop?

 

I'm pretty sure, that if the mobo goes kaput, so does the OEM license. Because the license is tied to the mobo, and stored in one of the ACPI tables.

 

I'll avoid quoting everyone, cause that'd take up have the page anyways.

I'm quite happy to be corrected if I'm wrong (although cites to supporting docs are usually necessary - I can be quite slow on the uptake sometimes ), here's how I understand it: OEM royalty copies are locked to the hardware using a hash of a series of numbers that are pulled from a number of the different "permanent" components, such as the hdd, RAM, motherboard, etc (I don't remember the full list, but I'm sure anyone who wants to can find it via google).

A number of those components can be changed before the resulting hash gets out of spec with the original spec, at which point you'll have some problems with the OS. However, if you get a problem (typically, it'll be an installation done after a major upgrade that refuses to validate) you can call Microsoft support, and if you're sincere enough, convince them that all you did was an upgrade to the pre-existing equipment on which the OS was originally preinstalled, and that new installation will be allowed to validate.

In terms of the license keys all being the same - yes, there is a standard OEM license key that Microsoft issues that permits the copies to be preinstalled and validated so that when the end-user first fires up his/her new computer, it's good to go straight out of the box. However, that does not mean that a copy of a .Windows OS that was initially preinstalled on a _Dell will, without any monkeying, work just fine on an _HP - because the hardware locking hash will simply be too different.

 

I understand that you believe that, but it's simply not true. At my old job we would transfer OEM licenses onto other computers all the time, across brands, chipsets, fully different hardware sets. You're right that it won't activate if you just moved the hard drive from one computer to another and tried to re-activate because of that hash, but if you did a clean installation of Windows on Computer A (Dell) with the license key off Computer B (HP), it will just be seen as an installation of an OEM System Builder's Windows. Again, Microsoft will have no way of determining. Think about it - if the license keys are the same, and the discs are the same... how could they possibly tell what the key was originally attached to if EVERYTHING else has changed, and a new hash has been created? Answered simply, they can't.

I know all of this for a fact, tell me how I can prove it to you (as I don't think "I've witnessed it 100's of times" is enough for you)

 

My supposedly illegal copy of vista updates perfectly.......

 

I'll not doubt that you probably have a better understanding of the mechanism than I do; as for proof - any good, mildly technical discussion on the web you can point me to (by someone who's got at least a half-way decent reputation - in other words, don't just point me back to myself ) would be more than welcome.

 

Maybe this will help, I don't quite understand the whole article (non-english user sorry )

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,2087792,00.asp

 

Shyster, I did some googling and pretty much everything that confirms what I say is just Joe Schmos on other forums.

However, this article may shed some light on the situation:
http://aumha.org/win5/a/wpa.php
It is an in depth explanation of how the hashing process works and how it relates to activation.

Unfortunately, this article is antiquated as this process has changed since the introduction of WGA. OEMs (so reloading your Dell with the OEM key that is on that machine) now follow standard activation processes, rather than relying on BIOS.

It does at least give some info on what qualifies as a repair and what doesn't.

 

Thanks for the link! Let me give it a read.

 

After reading through some of MS' stuff on licensing, it appears that even non-activated copies of the OS will still get security updates, but not any other non-security update. So, do you know whether or not you've received any non-security updates?

The simplest way to tell if all's right with your "supposedly illegal" copy of _Vista is to go to the source and get it validated: go to the following webpage: http://www.microsoft.com/genuine/default.aspx?displaylang=en&PartnerID=4

and click on the "validate now" link for .Windows at the top right-hand side of the page, then come back and tell us what it said.

More generally, it appears that there are actually two ways in which OEMs can validate a preinstalled copy of .Windows - either by BIOS-locking the copy (called System Locked Pre-installation, or "SLP" by Microsoft), or by validating after installation but before delivery in the same way that retail customers would validate (i.e., phone-home).

An OEM copy that has SLP will never need to be reactivated so long as the same pertinent information is found by the OS each time on login. I don't know what specific information in the BIOS is used; however, given the propensity of the large OEMs to be a little slip-shod with things like the BIOS, it wouldn't surprise me if an OEM copy of .Windows would install on a number of different machines from the same OEM (such as _HP). Anyone up for some serious digging to see if there's any indication of what info is stored in the BIOS that is used for SLP?

The other way simply generates a hash based on 10 pieces of system hardware, of which a certain number can be changed before re-activation is required; in addition, the number that can be changed depends on whether (i) the system has an ethernet adapter installed when the hash is generated, or (ii) the system is dockable. If a non-dockable system has a NIC, then 6 pieces can be changed, or 5 if the NIC is changed. On a dockable system with a NIC, 9 pieces can be changed, or 8 if the NIC is changed.

Also, if a system becomes out-of-grace with activation, there is a 3-day grace period before anything starts happening, provided it's been more than 120 days (I think) since the last activation of the product key associated with that copy of the OS.

 

Dell I know uses SLP. A Dell disk for Vista, XP, it doesn't matter, will work on all Dells, desktops, notebooks, any Dell at all.

Greg

 

The old _Sony VAIO I have (PCG-Z1A, circa early 2003 ) also uses SLP. It also uses the old BIOS-locking mechanisms that OEMs developed pre-SLP (and which were the basis from which Microsoft developed SLP) for the factory recovery CDs that were provided to do a back-to-factory reinstallation of the system. I've poked around a bit in the executables on the CDs (largely because it annoys me that I have no choice but to get the bloatware along with the OS if I have to use them), and found some code that seems to do the BIOS reading, but never spent enough time digging around in it to figure it out (in part because there's a dll in there blitter.dll, that I could never find any useful information on the web about).

 

Even those systems can be reloaded with a standard OEM disc, then activated via the standard activation process. I have personally done this.
It's a bit more of a hassle than just putting in the disc, but the end result is worth the 5 minutes on the phone with Microsoft (and phone activation really is pretty fast, I don't think it's ever taken me more than 15 minutes tops... if you can't tell, my job involves loading/reloading computers multiple times a day >_>)


As for the "are you sure you're getting all updates?" question, the answer is yes. Next time I spot a computer with a license from another computer on it (they come through the shop like once a week at least) I'll take a screenshot of the updates page on MS's website, as well as the page that shows successful validation.

 

Yup. According to the MS materials on product activation, if an SLP-enabled system fails SLP verification, then it drops back to standard phone-home activation.

I'd love to see that screenshot.

 

The hash of hardware ID's you are talking about applies to changes to the hardware AFTER the OS is installed. Say I put an OEM (or ANY version) of XP or Vista on a machine. The installer takes the hashes and stores them. Then weeks, days or ours latter, if I change any of the components used for the hash, say the MB or HD, then the OS will see if I have reached the threshold of change requring that I recertify my license.

But the point is the hashes are NOT stored on the install media. So an inital install from OEM (or any other) media cannot be tied to a specific machine. Thinsk about it, that would require the computer manufacturers to cut a separate DVD for each machine that walked out the door. Ouch, talk about a logisitcal nightmare.

Now, I have seen OEM CD's tied to a particular MODEL of computer before. Boot from the DVD to do a clean install, and the installer will look at the BIOS to see if the machine is the correct model, but not a specific instance of that model.

Gary

 

Glad someone agrees with me...
I actually found a computer in the shop right now with a Dell OEM sticker on it, but it's a home built computer.
I am waiting on permission from Chaz to post screenshots.

 

With respect to the hash-method, you're quite right - the hash is generated for the first time upon installation, and is thereafter kept on the system and is checked at every login to see whether or not the OS is still getting enough "votes" (as MS calls it) from the relevant hardware to still be considered in-spec.

Thus, one could quite easily install a non-SLP OEM copy from OEM A onto a system made by OEM B; however, when the system is validated, it not only sends the hash, but also the product ID and the full product key (the product ID is contained as part of the Installation ID along with the aforementioned hash).

Now, since the copy of the OS is an OEM copy, and will report an OEM product key that does not belong to the OEM that built the system the OS was installed on, I would think that the possibility, at least, exists for MS to be able to say "sorry, that product key can only be used on OEM A systems, not OEM B systems;" however, since the product activation system does not, if MS can be believed, send identifying info back to Mama MS, it would seem that MS has cut this path off.

That would suggest to me that folks are paying more for their OS license if they get from a non-SLP OEM, and are more or less getting an ersatz retail version (less the user manual - such as it is - and the microsoft-provided support).

Finally, there is always the fact that, if not activated, there's only a 30-day window for use; so perhaps MS is counting on (a) subterfuge, and (b) people getting annoyed with the 30-day window. Beats me.

EDIT: This is quite a good discussion, thanks Hep! and ScuderiaConchiglia and everyone else participating.

 

Ah see! That's where the misconception is coming from. Microsoft no longer has the same SLP policy. If you reload your dell with a disc without the files that check for SLP, you just go into the standard OEM/Retail activation process.

MS does not actually get your product key, the same when I log into NBR it does not actually ever get my password. When I type in my password, it turns the password into a hash, which is then sent over the internet. That hash is compared to the stored hash from when I signed up. Since my password is the only password that will generate that hash, we can be sure my password is valid, but the hash cannot be reversed into my password (well, not without rainbow tables). This is a common security method, which I am sure you are familiar with. On the same idea, you never actually send out your product key, so the best Microsoft can do is blacklist a set of hashes (those of keys which get published on the internet), but they can't blacklist an entire type of hashes. If they tried, they'd be not only preventing the activation of SLP OEMs, but all OEMs, since the key is of the same pattern. If you install a key that had been validated via SLP on a non SLP machine, Microsoft can only assume that the SLP has failed OR that it came from a machine that never had SLP in the first place. Thus, so long as you tell them "oh yeah, same computer as always" and don't mention that the license has moved, they'll gladly activate for you. And BTW Microsoft has gotten really lax with activation of XP, I get bored activating and mess with them. "And how many computers has this copy of Windows been installed on?" "One.... hundred." "What?" "One, just one." (and again, it really was only on one computer, just wanted to gauge the reaction). I've told them it's a re-activation because the motherboard was replaced (which was the truth) and they still activated me, so I know they allow that as well.