Touchscreens are a threat to trackpads, not mice

Posted here because touchscreens are primarily a Windows 8 addition and because this is where the Win 8 discussion is.

I hear ad nauseum that touchscreens will never replace mice. I couldn't agree more. Mice are great for power users in a desktop or DTR situation.

But after six months with a Vaio Duo 11, I think there's a compelling argument that, at least for 10"-14" laptops, they're a pretty darned good replacement for trackpads.

A lot of people really love their mice, but how many of us love our trackpad? Really love it? I've used a number of Windows PC trackpads, and they all rank from "awful" to "adequate." I deactivated my F2's trackpad and exclusively use a mouse because the trackpad was poop. And why are so many trackpads poop?

* They're undersensitive.
* They're oversensitive.
* They're too small.
* They're too big and thus catch the edge of your palm while you type.
* The palm rejection software activates when it shouldn't.
* They're too far left.
* They're too far right.
* They don't accurately recognize multitouch gestures.
* Every one is dramatically different, so when you have to use a laptop other than your "daily driver," they're often infuriating at first.
* And on small laptops, they eat up valuable surface area...area that could be used for a larger keyboard, full-size function keys, dedicated FN keys, speakers (that aren't hidden under a keyboard or in some equally crazy place), additional cooling (for high-performance ultraportables), etc.

This is a situation where touchscreens would be great replacements for trackpads. Sure, use your Razer Naga mouse at your desk, but when you're on the go, think of the advantages.

* It will never track your movements incorrectly, because your where you touch is where it clicks. No more fiddling with settings for two hours trying to "get it right."
* It will track your movement the same on every device you use, so no longer will you say "this moves too quick" or "this moves too slow" when grabbing your office's loaner laptop.
* Multitouch gestures are dictated by the program, not the trackpad anymore, so multitouch gestures will be the same on every device you use.
* It's really easy to use gestures on a small laptop screen, because they're big enough so that the software can't possibly mess them up. No more zooming when you meant to scroll or vice versa.
* Speaking of zooming, pinch-to-zoom on a screen is incredibly intuitive. IE10 does this beautifully.
* People say "the screen is too far away to touch comfortably"...that's true on a 17" DTR but not so much a 12" ultrabook.

After living without a trackpad on my main device for six months, the only glaring omission is the ability to hover a pointer over an interface that requires hovering...and the Galaxy S4 can detect hovering fingers, so I'm sure touchscreen laptops will have that feature soon enough too.

 

I'll agree here as well. This is what I envisioned using a tablet for consumption for, and actually how I do use my Nexus 10. If M$ had left a desktop mode, and Aero Glass, for DTR/Desktop computers I would have right now a RT or surface for consumption and Windows 8 for my laptop. Alas I am crying over spilt milk.

Back to topic though. With my tablet I much prefer the touch small screen over a touchpad. I think even a 17" tablet would be better off with a touchscreen. Then again I am not a touchpad fan either............

 

I can see touch screen working well in a Ultrabook for travel and commuting, it would make use much easier in a crammed bus or underground, but for anything bigger from normal form factor to desktop replacement it is meaningless. Unless they can integrate it with gaming and make somewhat usable I don't see future of it there, because most people use their mouse for gaming and keyboard for typing, touchcreen doesn't help do either.

 

I disagree. I don't want a touchscreen on any laptop, and I know that I am not alone with this. Touchscreens are awkward to use, your arm gets tired after extended usage (at least on a desk), and quite a few people absolutely hate the inevitable smudged-up screens. I agree with those, too, these things are just gross. So, no, I don't think touchscreens are a threat to anything. Their only sensible use is on slates. P.S.: As an aside, I note that touchscreens have been offered on various kinds of laptops for years, and just about nobody ever wanted them. And don't give me this nonsense about these being hard to use with Windows 7. Last week I played around with a Windows 7 tablet at Frys, and I found it perfectly fine to operate. As a matter of fact, if I was in the market for a tablet, I might still install Windows 7 on it. At least I would get a pretty desktop that way rather than that bland emasculated mush that comes with Windows 8, and I would not be forced to look at that god-awful "ModernUI"...

 

personnay touchscreen make the screen dirtier and have to clean it more often not to say the far reach make the arm tired to use

 

yeah ... that ain't gonna be pretty if you are eating either. I take back what I said, just get an IPad or smartphone if you really want a touchscreen. At least there you can use a protective film to keep your screen from going too dirty.

 

STOP. This is not a thread about Metro aesthetic versus Aero aesthetic. It's a thread about pointer hardware.

You say they're not great for extended desktop use. Don't you use a mouse, not a trackpad, for extended desktop use?

As for "they've been offered for many years"--things change. Now many people are using iPads with keyboard folios as makeshift ultraportables, and many PC manufacturers are offering many different touchscreen laptops. People are interested in a way they haven't been before.

I never said it'd be for gaming. But then again, nobody uses trackpads for gaming either. I was talking about general pointer use when on the go, which is what people use trackpads for. So when you say "I can see touch screen working well in a Ultrabook for travel and commuting," that's exactly what I was talking about. I was talking about laptops like the Thinkpad X1 Carbon Touch, not about the Alienware M18x.

 

I did a few times for Medieval 2 Total War and even once for COD when my Mouse died, the worst gaming experience and the proof that I need to be put in psychiatric internment. ^_^

I agree that it makes a hell lot of sense for the Ultrabook scene, especially since there is a bunch of accessory to enable people to type with tablets. Commercially it is going to be tough because the table market is full of Apple fan-boys, but not impossible. If they can target the savvy user that can afford more than one machine without doing too much dumb tweaking it can be profitable, for example I don't like to take my Dell out of my living room because the thing is heavier than Michael Moore's coffin. So if I could afford it I could buy a ultrabook to use for when I need some productivity on the move. Now if they make it an oversized customized table I am not getting one, because my smartphone fill that niche already, just make it a computer with a touch screen.

 

Aye, touchscreens have improved considerably - both in the technology, as well as the implementation and cost efficiency - but I agree that the mighty mouse is far from beaten.

 

On the other hand games like Civilization series or pretty much any other TBS work pretty well with touchpad. But on the other hand Civilization V touch version looks and plays very cool .

 

Two minor points here: a) Your particular sensibilities nothwithstanding, you are in no position to tell anybody to "STOP". b) You may have noticed that the remark you were referring to was at the end of my post, implying it stopped there.

I do, but when I sit in one of my multi-hour meetings, I am using the trackpad, and I have no interest in the touchscreen.

 

Now hold on a second: I started a thread with a very clear, very specific topic--whether touchscreens were viable hardware replacements for trackpads on ultraportable laptops. Two people immediately went off on a completely unrelated tangent (how they prefer Aero aesthetics to Metro aesthetics)...a topic that is a very, very dead horse already. Yes, I know I'm not a mod. That's why I said "stop" instead of "stop or I'll remove your posts and take other other moderator action."

 

Me for one. I was given a mouse when I bought my Netbook and I'm looking at it now, it's being used as a paperweight (literally) because I found it much more work than the touchpad. Let's look at the most used action, move the pointer/cursor then click

To move pointer/cursor then click with mouse:
• Move hand away from keyboard
• Grab mouse
• Move mouse
• Click button
• Move hand back to keyboard
That's a lot of movement for a simple action

To move pointer/cursor then click with touchpad
• Bend finger (and possibly wrist) till over touchpad
• Move fingertip across touchpad
• Tap or click button
• Bend finger and (possibly wrist) till over keyboard
That's a very small amount of movement, as it should be, for such a simple action
Sometimes it's possible to use the thumb instead of the finger (when accuracy is not a necessity), then there is almost no movement at all

To reply to your list of Cons

I have just spent the past 3 hours on my Netbook, surfing, typing, downloading and testing software etc etc and my hands never left the keyboard area except to pick up my coffee cup.

It sounds to me like you have never had the good fortune to use a good touchpad, that's unfortunate because when you get a good one it is a wonderful experience
IMHO, a touchpad along with keyboard shortcuts is the best and easiest way

Having said all that, sadly. I think you might be right. In the future there will not be a touchpad on Netbooks and Notebooks simply because the touchscreen is the direction the various companies want to go

All the best, woz of oz

 

That is an oxymoron. Touchpad, and yes even the highly touted Mac one, are all rubbish. They're uncomfortable, unnatural, and cumbersome. They lack precision and require constant swiping. Even the multitap features don't "catch" half the time. Touchpads area an unfortunate evil with laptops. Although I always carry around a mouse and only use touchpad in a pinch.

Touchscreens have their place with tablets but laptops, no way. I can't stand my 5 inch tablet getting smudged all the time and cleaning it all the time. I can't imagine what a 15-17 inch screen would look like and require constant cleaning. It's bad enough having to clean my keyboard and mouse frequently, but can live with it if it gets a little dirty. But the screen has to be crisp and clean. You need a prophylactic on your fingers...



Until they offer eye command recognition, and accurate eye commands, I'll continue to stick with mouse and keyboard.

 

I don't think trackpads are going anywhere anytime soon. They are a convenient built in device for laptops. OTOH I love the Apple trackpads. I had a chance to use one on a MBP and it felt as natural and consistent as when i'm using my iPad. :hi2:

 

My friend used trackball. It worked okay for singleplayer but after 30mins in our lanparties he was yelling for a loaner mouse

I wouldn't use touchscreens here at home. I have three 24" screens in front of me right now but they are out of reach. Perfect viewing distance is more than my arms length. So in order to use touch, screens would have to be smaller and closer. I would lose both desktop real estate in computer screen and on my physical desktop.

However I've several times played with an idea of integrated display/touchscreen in my desk that would double as a touchpad/penabled tablet etc in addition to regular kb/mouse combo.

 

It gonna depends on software adaption rate, until most software can work efficiently with multitouch. I can't give up on the trackpad/point (+buttons) when I don't have a mouse.

Also, with touchscreen, you get into ergonomic problem. People either need to keep their arm hanging or look down on the screen.(both hurts. )

 

Trackballs are something I found to be VERY problematic to use.
Trackpad was easier - probably because it mimicked the movement of a hand on a mouse, whereas the trackball was like a little joystick you had to move in a specific direction for the pointer to go to (and of course the ones placed in between the keys were most trickiest because I ended up clicking on letters).
I actually managed to get accustomed to the Trackpad much faster and after a short period of time, I worked on it as fast as on a mouse (productivity wise and in games).

As for touchscreens... yes they are better than trackballs (for me).

As for touchscreens possibly replacing mice and trackpads... its possible if the UI in OS, programs and games is designed to make it easy for people to actually use their fingers (and not complicate matters with a gazillion motions to get something) as opposed to the method used now (which rather mimics a keyboard and a mouse and can be problematic for people who worked for years with an actual keyboard and a mouse).

 

That's an interesting point: Touchscreens for gaming? Having someone blast through an FPS with touchscreen control should be, hmm, interesting...

 

With current design of game, touch screen may not work well. But do remember that a mouse was as useless in the time of non-gui o's and dos games. And dos game is not even that far away.

 

I wonder why MS would waste time with touchscreens when they could incorporate voice commands instead. You can definitely use that for gaming, as evidenced by the X-Box Kinect. Why not base regular computing on it? Is the technology that far away? I could get into voice commands, but I will never incorporate touchscreens with my home computing. Our main screen for our gaming tower is the 60" TV, hanging on the wall. And I agree that I would hate to mark up my laptop screen with smudges constantly. I am way too OCD for that.

 

Not any more improbable as having someone blast through a FPS with a trackpad. Like I've said, the comparison is trackpad versus touchscreen (particularly for ultraportable laptops), NOT mouse versus touchscreen. And people game with either a KB&M or a gamepad, not a trackpad.

 

I don't want to be in a conference room, court room, library, or study hall full of people controlling their laptops with voice commands.

As the original post states, this discussion is about ultraportable laptops, not desktops or DTRs.

 

I guess it all boils down to preference, I'd prefer a touch screen on tablets/surface pro. but laptop... not really for me i guess, I still prefer my mouse and on a pinch a touchpad.

maybe the case would be different on those "convertible" laptops like the lenovo/tablet hybrids.

 

I am confused with the OP; you claim this is a thread specific to hardware but you posted it in a "Windows Software" forum.................

 

Not even if we limit the discussion to Windows is this true.

Are they? They are imprecise in so many ways I don't have time to list them all. Mice are great for FPS games but for desktop use? Nah.

I don't love my computer hardware (not a techno-fetishist) but use the touchpad >99% of the time.

In what world do you live and what kind of notebooks do you use? In no way do the touchpad limit or hinder anything you listed.
The only valid complaint of this kind would be: "I want a super-wide screen and don't want a touchscreen below my keyboard" - like the Vaio P. And those have a tiny touchpad also (on the screen frame).

That is "easy" to do in hardware but it doesn't work well for the human part. To hover but not touch the screen requires extra concentration and eye-arm coordination which is a stress factor, make the hover point to far from the screen and the screen angle + user eye position have to be known to keep some precision.

 

I agree that touchscreens are more suited to replacing trackpads than mice. The problem with the implementation in Windows 8 is the hamhanded one size fits all approach. It's ideal for a touchscreen but is extremely inefficient (in my humble opinion) for mouse users.

I do have one issue with touchscreens, and it's a big one (for me at least). I don't want to be constantly moving my hands from the keyboard to the screen. Personally, I'd much rather have a high quality trackpad, a la the MBP, than a touchscreen.