One Month Vista Challenge

Okay, as most of you realise, I am somewhat of a Windows hater. Having recently moved full time to Ubuntu Linux, and having only bashed Vista in my posts in this section, some people find it hard to take me seriously. In an attempt to dispel any fears people might have that my arguments are not founded in any experience what so ever (despite my comments to the contrary) I am going to reinstall Vista and use it as my primary OS for the next 28 days.

I will update this thread daily, and document my triumphs and disappointments, as well as puzzling mysteries, as I venture back into the realm of proprietry software.

DAY 1: Baby Steps - March 7

Okay, having downloaded and burned the five Vista cds on my university connection (thank God for high speed networks), I decided to install Vista on my 6 month old Dell Inspiron 6400.

Just for reference, here are my hardware specs:

Intel Core Duo T2400 @ 1.83GHz
1x 1024MB of RAM @ 533MHz
128MB ATi Mobility Radeon X1400
60GB HDD @ 5400rpm

Microsoft give away Vista Business Edition to Computer Science students at my university. All I had to do was download the 5 .isos, and email one of the tech staff for a product key.

Installing Vista is quite a quick and painless experience, a welcome change from the hour plus of Windows XP. The hard drive preparation program works well, and I had my hard drive configured into one NTFS partition for Windows, and one EXT3 partition, which has handled my media for the past six months.

After about fifty minutes of installation, I was greeted by the log in screen of Vista. I have used it before, but it still is pleasant to look at. A vast improvement on Windows XP, and goes some of the way to catch up with OS X's effects and Linux's Compiz/Beryl.

On first boot, everything runs well, including Aero.

However, I was to quickly discover some things that, to say the least, bugged me...

The first thing is, my second partition. It is formatted with the EXT3 file system, a format that has been around for a while. It is a fully open source file system, so I assumed Vista would be able to show me it. I was wrong. Windows Vista (like its predeccesor) only enables you to read FAT32, or NTFS partitions. Under Windows XP, I was able to gain access to my media partition through the use of the third party program Ext2IFS. I am having problems running it in Vista though.

I have been told to run the program in compatibility mode, and run it as adminsitrator. It installed correctly, however, on reboot, my system slowed to a crawl whenever something referenced my new Z: and explorer.exe would crash each time as well. The solution at the current time is to load up a Linux live cd and network my stuff over to my brothers computer, then network it back into my Windows partition once I boot up Vista.

 

Ubuntu is my favorite Linux OS

I wish you luck Vista takes alittle figuring out at first, but after awhile you will get more used to it. I hated it at first none of my programs would work either, 3 months later I have finally gotten the hang of it

 

Best of luck. When its over you'll be begging for linux

 

I've never found those Windows drivers for Linux file systems to be worthwhile. If I were you I would create a separate FAT32 partition for any data that you want to be accessible from both partitions, and forget about trying to mess with EXT3 from within Windows. There's always the possibility of the Windows driver royally screwing up you linux installation, and then you'll really be pissed at Vista. FAT32 is really the most "universal" file system. It plays well with Windows and Linux, without slowdowns ro potentially FUBAR'ing either installation.

Just my $.02 though.

 

Yeah, but FAT32 gets horribly fragmented with time. Ext3 under XP ran just fine, so I suppose I will have to wait until the program's devs catch up.

 

Problem is, FAT is the very definition of "lowest common denominator", which introduces problems of it's own...

Rather than using an ext3 shared partition, perhaps you could use NTFS alongside the ntfs-3g driver for linux.

http://www.ntfs-3g.org/

Either that, or screaming for the bullet.

 

lol -- well said...

 

Woah. Fifty minutes?

Mine installed in like 15 minutes. Course I burned the iso to a single DVD+R.

 

Glad to see you're giving it a shot, i'll look forward to the reports as we've had a fairly in depth conversation about Vista

Based on your first day though, a few comments if i may:

50 minutes to install, while not bad, or anything to be upset at, is probably a bit longer than "usual". I've installed it on 3 computers so far, and all took about 15-25 minutes. I'm not sure if you're factoring in drivers and tweaks, in which case 50 minutes from start to finish is a respectable time. Of course the vast majority will be installing off a single DVD, so that may play a role.

And while the issues you're having with Vista and Linux partitions not playing nice is a valid complaint, you have to realize you and maybe 2% of world wide computer users would ever run into the problem, if that. I'm not trying to discredit your issue with it, but honestly that isn't really big deal as most people would be running NTFS to begin with.

/me subscribes

Good luck my friend.

 

Day 2 & 3 - WiFi frustrations.

Well, after a night of web browsing and music listening, my first day of university was to arrive. I used almost half of my battery life on the train, listening to more music. I can report that on my hardware, battery life with Vista is comparable to XP and Ubuntu. Slightly higher than Ubuntu, slightly less than XP.

However, I arrived at university to find that our uni network must be upgraded to support Windows Vista clients. I can access some networked pages, but zero outside access as of this time. I can't help but be disappointed, as even Ubuntu was able to access the outside world sometimes.

Games - I've had good experiences and bad experiences. Good news is Battle for Middle-Earth II runs. Bad news is Icewind Dale II and Soldat will not. Soldat crashes on starting a game. And Icewind doesn't like playing network games.

2% of millions is still tens of thousands.

Almost...

More to come... About to try out NWN...

 

nwn2 works i can vouch on that i play it on my pc with vista utimate. plays bout same as xp seems slighty slower but my 6800 is dieing so i cant tell and driver support on vista still in slow stages of fixing bugs.

 

Ahh... this should be rich.

 

Day 4 - Already in the Routine?

Well, I have come to a very cathartic realisation here... Using Windows Vista feels almost exactly the same. Dirty.

No, seriously, I just feel unclean.

I really can't tell if Aero is running or not. Is the Win + Tab thing only available in Aero? Cause I can run that. Does that mean Aero is on?

Because if it is... I'm sorely disappointed. Vista is aupposed to support transparencies now, but I can't find how to make IE7 almost invisible. I can't really find any usability improvments either. The search thing on the start menu is nice, it was something WinXP was sorely missing, but other than that... Well... Ah... Everything is the same.

I also don't like the lack of customisability. The only thing I can really do is move my taskbar to the top of the screen, and thats it.

An older version of Daemon Tools almost forced me to reinstall. As it gave me blue screens on boot.

Sorry for it turning into a rant, but I am literally bashing my head on the desk here, going insane.

That being said, Vista's hardware compatibility has improved greatly. Wireless is now as easy as Ubuntu, along with my webcam and video. Neverwinter Nights ran as well as it did on Ubuntu 6.10.

I really don't know how much longer I'm going to last fellas. I'll take suggestions on what OS to replace it with next...

 

If you don't know if Aero is running, you probably don't know what you're doing to begin with. Are you joking, or you don't know what Aero is?

Elaborate please. What would you like to happen in Vista that can't happen in XP?

You said it yourself, " older version" gave you problems. Did you use the latest Vista ready version?

Sorry to hear you're having issues, but welcome to the club. It's pretty safe to say, most early adopters are having some sort of issue or another. In your case i'm still not hearing any concrete problems. If you wouldn't mind, i would love to hear the "nitty gritty" if you will. What you're describing is both ignorance (can't tell if Aero is running?) and minor fixable issues. Rather than rants, post the problem and we'll see if we can help you out.

 

It was indeed in jest. I know Aero is running.

A dock?

Yes, the newer version worked correctly.

Then the question that begs to be asked is: Why was it released in such a state?

First of all, how do I boot Vista in rescue mode? Pressing F8 when booting up allows me access to to "safe mode" but even this mode still loads third party modules, hence daemon tools giving me blue screens even in safe mode. Is there a way to load just the kernel and gui?

How do I install a custom theme for Vista? What about a desktop switcher?

Also, the latest version of the GIMP will not run. The splash screen refuses to respond when looking for fonts. Compatibility mode will not work either.

And, is there a way I could get Amarok to run on Vista? Maybe like a backwards WINE. Because it is my preferred music player, and WMP pales in comparison.

 

lol....i was starting to worry about you If you're unimpressed, that's one thing, but glad to hear you at least know if it's running.

That it? Were you using third party software in XP? There are some great gadgets that do many of the same things that objectdock and others did. Sure it's different, but you can manage it much the same...

Which begs the question why you even mentioned it, but ok...

Which begs the question, what OS was ever released in a perfect state? That is a pretty stupid question coming from someone who prides themself as a Linux user. You of all people should know the multiple issues out of the gate with an OS. Since when did Ununtu (or any OS) load up without any tweaking, new drivers, new software, and so forth? I'll pretend you didn't say that

Screenshot: System Recovery Options (Lower Left Link)
http://blogs.itecn.net/photos/liuhui...4/500x375.aspx

Screenshot: (Click first option "Startup Repair")
http://www.leedesmond.com/images/img...SysRecOpt2.bmp

How To Run Startup Repair In Vista Ultimate (Multiple Screenshots)
http://www.windowsvista.windowsreins...rtup/part1.htm

Is that what you're looking for?

Funny i don't remember that being available the month after XP released...

Granted i don't what what's available for Vista in this regard yet, but is this really an issue in month 2 of it's existence?

http://www.gimp.org/windows/

The GIMP should run on Windows 98/ME/NT4/2000/XP

I think you need to direct this question at them, not Microsoft and Vista

Don't know anything about this. I would also consider this a minor bump in the road considering there are tons of other means in which to play your media.

Again, since when did an OS of any kind get released and have EVERYTHING working for it out of the gate? If you have system critical software you need to run, you shouldn't be running Vista to begin with. Anyone who runs a new OS knows this...

 

If I remember correctly, XP didn't have a dock either. I don't mind different, but this kind of difference is the unintuitive type.

Actually, when I install Ubuntu on this same machine, the only post install stuff I need to do is the fglrx drivers. This is the result of legalities more than technicalities. Some distros I don't even need to install that.

Links don't work.

Is it available to this day?

Guess Vista isn't as backwards compatible as they like to say it is.

If that was my way of thinking, I'd still be used Windows 98 2nd Edition.

 

XP didn't have anything built in, Vista has some great gadgets to emulate this feature, you should check them out.

Are you suggesting that the average home user could install Ununtu and be ready to rock out of the box? They would have no hardware/software issues to report? Heck, i installed Vista on my Dell laptop and didn't need to install a single driver, but i did anyways. Honestly, every OS i've ever used has needed some sort of tweaking, driver install, software upgrade, ect.

My bad, try these.

http://blogs.itecn.net/photos/liuhui/images/2014/500x375.aspx

http://www.leedesmond.com/images/img_vista02ctp-installSysRecOpt2.bmp

http://www.windowsvista.windowsreinstall.com/vistaultimate/repairstartup/part1.htm

You tell me, i don't use it...

Says who? Provide a link and i'll eat crow. There are a lot of things things that work, but there are many that don't. Same exact thing as when i installed XP.

The fact you can't use an obscure third party app to watch your media is a reason to make a comment like that? If you think that way, perhaps you should take your own advice...

 

This is a hoot... It's like when people come in the Linux forum and raise a stink.

How do you like them apples?

Ubuntu is free ( ) and Free ( ) You don't pay for anything, there's a new major release every 6 months, and the developers bust their @ss because they love to make Linux and Ubuntu better.

Vista business would cost $380 and took 5 years, and yet there's still all these problems.

Anyway, I think 28 days is an ambitious goal. Good luck, brave sir.

 

has been a month or 2 that you can patch the themes like on xp... if you need contact me and i tell you where to get the stuff (i don't use it, but i read on another forum people are releasing themes, but still few).

before to install extra software, verify that they are the latest available and/or that they support vista. try to install something like daemon-tools that have known issues before the 4.08 with vista, it's just like jump in a pool full of hungry piranhas... don't cry if they start to eat you

it takes time to get used to vista, more than from 2000 to XP... but for me, it runs nicely (i use pc for work, not for games, and everything i have works well). i tried to go back to XP, but after 5 days i reinstall vista.. i can't stand XP anymore... said that, this is true for me, and for me only, if you feel dirty, unconfortable, etc... just switch back to ubuntu.

For my work (developer), i need a windows machine (php, mysql, c++, .net) but i will love to switch to linux, or to a mac, but i can't because of what i need for my work. if for yours, linux or mac is ok, then just stick to it, you don't need to follow the fashion, use what you like to use.

 

I tried the Application Dock gadget, but it didn't have system tray support, so it was useless. It was just quick launch in a different spot.

Well, when the 'obscure' third party app is clearly better than the rubbishy first party app, yes.

Don't you need to use a hacked dll for themes in XP? Or the spyware ridden third party skinning software? No thanks.

I just washed myself of the sin.

I could understand the dependency on Windows for .NET, I use Linux for the other three at university.

LAST UPDATE - Failure.

Well, I uninstalled Vista this afternoon. There was nothing GLARINGLY wrong with it, (apart from the DRM, and explorer.exe being more unstable than Charles Manson on crack) it just wasn't good either. I really can't find any reason to recommend Vista to anyone. Unless of course, install it on your family computer, make it run real slow, and tell your parents to buy an upgrade to support Vista is a valid excuse.

But - Vista had the last laugh. I went to backup my music, and used the cd burner in explorer.exe to do it. Normally, under Windows XP, this would not be any cause for concern. Well, Vista told me that it would use the UDF format for the cd, which is fine. What it didn't tell me was that Vista uses a modified version of the standard. "Live UDF" or some other rubbish. Well, my backup disk is useless on my new Ubuntu install, and my brothers XP SP2 computer.

Thanks a lot Microsoft, you wank-priests. Goodbye and good riddance.

 

Well we can cite user error for this debacle. There is a difference between preference and "failure". Funny how you can't burn media, while I (and i'm sure others) can. Yet you would try to pass it off like Vista made it to where you couldn't do such a task.

I respected your decision to try out Vista and really try to use it, but now you've lost that respect. If that's the final word in your "challenge" then i would say you as a user failed miserably. The fanboyism of Linux with you shines very true, at least that much i can appriciate.

 

User error on default settings? That's like saying it's the users fault IE6/7 doesn't comply with the standards. Now I realise, I should have checked the settings, but I just couldn't assume that Microsoft's isolationism would extend that far. Not even compatible with SP2. Let this be a warning to Vista users.

Well, if trialling out both sides of the competition, and choosing the better one makes me a fanboy, I guess I am.

 

I'll be honest with you, i'm inspired to try Ubuntu now. I'll read up a bit more on it, and wait for this 7.04(?) release that everyone is talking about and throw my hat in the ring.

 

Excellent, I look forward to reading if you write a critique!

 

Nothing makes me happier. It's not just the fact that you're using Linux, but the fact that you're giving the other side of the fence a try. I think that's healthy in any situation, and at least you'll know why you want to stick with Microsoft if that happens to be the case.

 

I was going to put it on my PC, but it just occured to me i have an extra laptop HDD, perhaps i'll install it on there this week. What version would you recommend i use for the laptop in my sig, and do you see any issues given my hardware?

What Ubuntu forums would you guys recommend so i can start to read up on it?

 

My biggest issue with Ubuntu is actually the documentation, most of the documentation starts with 'goto terminal' while I understand how to do this, a lot of people migrating from XP or Vista might not, and given that they have graphical ways to do a lot of things, it seems like a bit of a pain.

I recommend Ubuntu 6.10, seems to work very nicely on my 8204.

 

Just wait for 7.04. It'll be out next month. If you dont' want to wait, install 6.06. 6.10 is nice, but you have to install network manager to get wireless working. The drivers are in the kernel but for some reason most wireless cards won't run without network manager. Your laptop should run Ubuntu extremely well give you have the Intel 3945 wireless card. You may have to install 915 resolution, but that can be done by clicking a checkbox in Synaptic. This will give you whatever resolution you need for the laptop.

 

Welcome back to a REAL operating system my friend

BEST....WINDOWS BASH.....EVER!!!

 

Lol. Lysander, you are a fellow Windows hater? Didn't know.

Oh, certainly. There isn't anyway else.