A Laymen's Opinion......

My impressions of W7...

I consider myself to be the perfect "guide post" for determining
an OS's worth. I am the quintessential "average" PC user.

Why you ask?
Because, I just want to log on and plain "do stuff." I want it to work and I lack
knowledge of the nuts, bolts and hidden tweaks to get stuff to work when it doesn't. However, I do know enough to zoom around on a computer, and do a fair amount of things, enough to run into "trouble," sort of speak.

I am also no Fanboy, and hold no allegiance to anyone, thus making me completely unbiased.

First the short, then the long.

The Short:
Vista was a complete failure, I sold my top of the line, brand new Sony Vaio, because Windows utterly failed.

Moved to OS X, but had to bootcamp Vista for school related programs.

Short comparison:
I like Vista's "look" much better. Sidebar and their gadgets are hands down better.

OS X just plain worked, and did thinks in a logical matter, and was clean and streamlined.

Again I am no fanboy, as I like the look of Vista and that PC offers just plain "More" stuff, more programs, more choices.

So I tried Windows 7 and my impression was that it made me want to go back to Vista, and Vista was a failure. So, yeah, Windows 7 is horrible.
I have been hearing everyone loves it, and that is faster, fixed most of vistas problems, better eye candy, and more user friendly.

I find none of these to be true.
Sidebar doesn't work, I can hear my hard drive trying to make it work but it doesn't. Internet explore lays an egg every 5 minutes. I can not find basic things in control panel/personalization as easy as I could in Vista, if at all.

The search function is still in the 90's as compared to Spotlight in Mac OS X.

The old vista problems are still there; Files moving causes the whole system to either pause or crash. Long delays for drop down menus to open when I right click.
On vista, when I shut my lid to my computer, it would only sometimes fa;; asleep like it should, and when it did, almost never resumed upon opening properly and would have to restart.

In mac OSX, I shut lid, computer sleeps, hours or seconds later I open lid, and I am up and operational, including wireless internet with in seconds.

Windows 7, lid shutting problems same as Vista.

The new eye candy is nice looking, but adds no functionality whatsoever, when with a few tweaks it could.

Back to IE 8, it can not download, or install programs.

Windows 7 may be good with those with advance degrees in IT, computer science or rocket science, but the normal computer user it is worthless.

I realize it is a beta, but my question is, with all the problems Vista had, and MS knows it, why send out a beta to the public that does not fix Vista's main problems, and is in my opinion worse then Vista. On top of that, lack the foresight to make sure their servers can handle increased traffic when they released the beta.

Now MS has to fix Vista and W7. Good Luck, as I am eagerly waiting until I can come back to PC.

 

I'd say I agree with you one point: if you don't like Vista, you won't like Windows 7 either. Why? Because Windows 7 is built on Vista. It's better and than Vista because it fixes Vista's two biggest problems, it's a resource hog and at first it didn't work with anything. The problem has been fixed, but Vista still gets bad PR about it. Windows 7 on the other hand works quite well for beta program as far as compatibility. And resource wise it's a big improvement--although still far behind XP, but that's the world we live in now and computers can handle it with easy with dual core CPUs and massive RAM amounts standard. Windows 7 isn't a bad program, it's just not a Mac. Not everyone has to like Windows, that's why there Mac and Linux.

 

I haven't had any of the problems you describe. I've found the Windows 7 beta to be very reliable with few quirks. Everything is laid out just how I like it, and it is faster than my XP partition. Though I don't use IE, so I can't comment on those issues.

The intent of a beta is to test it out on the hardware people will be using, and get an opinion from the public. When downloading the beta, Microsoft makes it clear that this is not meant to replace your existing operating system. It is expected to have problems. The purpose for downloading it is to find those problems and report it to Microsoft.

A few relevant quotes from Microsoft about beta testing Windows 7:

Q: Why Be A Beta Tester

Q: Are there risks to installing the Beta?

You should report the problems you encounter to Microsoft. This is how they will make the operating system what you hope it to be when released.

 

I've had very few issues with Vista (mind you I don't really use Vista for much, just watching TV, listening to music and surfing the web) and Win 7 seems to be better, once you get your laptops drivers installed properly if you have need of specific drivers.

But one of the issues I had with Vista is still present in the Win 7 beta.

On my laptop (specs in sig) I can run one particular game (Race 07 and it's expansion GTR Evolution) in XP fine on max settings in a reasonable resolution (something around 1440x900) but in Vista and now in Win 7 I can't, I have to run it in a res of 1280x800 to get any decent fps and it "micro-stutters", I have to alt+tab to the desktop, start task manager, set the .exe to high priority, set the affinity to 1 core, go back to the game, alt+tab back out, set the affinity to 2 cores and then go back to the game and play, but even then it stutters, just not as bad.

It's not the drivers as I've used a lot of different versions and it's not the CPU or GPU otherwise it'd be the same in XP, wouldn't it?

Perhaps it's the coding in the game, perhaps it's the OS, who knows? I'm slightly more than a "layman" but I don't know anything about how OSs work, I just know how to get mine running and how to keep it running if it breaks down, but even so I wouldn't call Vista a failure and I wouldn't call Win 7 a bigger failure, for a start Win 7 is only in the beta stage, it looks better, is more responsive (mostly) than Vista and I generally like it so far (I've only been using it for 24hrs), just a shame some of my games don't run as well compared to how they run in XP.

 

Having suffered through a _Sony for 6 years, maybe the problem was as much the _Sony as the OS.

 

The first half of your "unbiased" "review" was worthless, you can tell it's getting bad when your using up most of your post to claim your impartial to this matter. Your clearly not, sorry! I honestly stopped reading after the vista was a complete failure part, but I don't think I missed anything important Reading other posts here and on other websites it sounds like your attempting it run in on a computer that shipped with Windows ME.

 

Everybody has their preferences. As a Mac user, I use OS X the majority of the time on my MacBook due to better battery life and better keyboard functionality. However, saying that OS X is easier and more streamlined is certainly a matter of opinion. For instance, why is there no option in the System Preferences to set default applications for file types? Likewise, why are there no customization options for Aqua, besides a transparent or opaque menu bar (which doesn't even work on my Leopard install any more)? On the other hand, why do I have to run uninstallers in Windows? It's all opinion and preference.

As for Windows 7, my experience has been mixed over two different installs. The first install on my MacBook was terrible; nothing would install and not everything would work right. So I reformatted the partition and reinstalled, used a different antivirus, and now all my applications are running fine, just like in Vista on my Dell. Performance has been great, the MacBook runs cooler than in OS X, streaming to my PS3 was a snap, and overall productivity has been good. As for sidebar, I don't think that's still supposed to be in 7. There's no need for it, as the gadgets operate from the desktop, and can be "docked" to the right side of the screen just as if sidebar were there, but without using up the resources. I do agree that I hate the lack of "Classic View" option in the Control Panel. I'm also not a huge fan of the new taskbar, but the jump lists make up for things, and unlike OS X's dock, you get jump lists and thumbnails, which are extremely useful, and come somewhat close to making up for the lack of Expose. Also, the Boot Camp system tray icon doesn't seem to work now, and none of my keyboard "hot keys" work (volume, brightness, etc). But overall experience has been good, and the RTM should be much better than Vista's since nearly all of Vista's drivers seem to work in 7. I think Windows 7 will be a success, only because it's got the hype as being better than Vista and people shouldn't have as many software and hardware incompatibilities as they did when Vista came out.

 

It could have been the Sony's fault, but I have run Vista on a powerful 2008 MacBook Pro as well and encountered the same problems. W7 on the same.

The reason for the long build up was to convey where I was coming from.
Knowing a persons position can speak volumes to the task at hand more so then words directly targeted at the task. Also, did not want to be labeled as a Mac fanboy.

I like pc better, in the sense that it offers more options, is better for what I do with computers, and I like the way it looks.
But, I have to put up with so many problems, I simply could not take it anymore.

But, blaming me or the computer I use aside, Vista has its problems. As for being a failure? I think so, I realize it has some redeeming qualities. But for me, it was a failure- it turned me away from MS. It wasn't like Apple pulled me, but rather MS pushed me.

 

Yeah, I agree.

 

I deeply apologize for being worthless.

 

You've offered an opinion based on experiences which most if not all the people here have not seen before. I'll say this - there was something wrong with your installation of Vista, and there is something wrong with your installation of Windows 7.

I've observed that many people who complain about Windows encountered problems, attempted no trouble-shooting, and moved to something else which worked for them. That's fine, but it isn't a sound basis for a critique of Windows.

 

While I agree that the OP probably did not give Windows 7 a fair chance or had some sort of issue, this thread does not suck. Everybody has their own experiences and needs to share them. That's kind of the point of a beta. He just needs to share them with Microsoft as well.

People need to get off the Windows 7 bandwagon and realize that it's still not going to be right for everyone. Some people didn't like Vista for reasons other than performance, and Windows 7 is not likely to sway those people. Also, just because a majority of people are having good experiences doesn't mean everyone is. I didn't have good experiences with my first install.

 

Really??

I actually feel that W7 makes it easier for a normal computer user. You dont have to download drivers by yourself as you can get them via windows update. Those who want/are keen on getting the most up-to-date drivers will i'm sure know where to download their hardware drivers from. With W7 the "normal computer user" doesn't need to do any tweaking. 'Coz with W7 they fixed the 2 major problem that Vista faced (as mentioned by ChristopherAKAO4).

This is definitely a good direction Microsoft's heading in. But finally it all boils down to user-preference. Hey, if u don't like/are disappointed with Windows 7, don't use it!

I haven't faced as many problems as you have with W7. But the few of which i did come across, i either fixed myself (with the help of either NBR or Google!) or have sent feedback back to Microsoft. I know this has been said lots of times before; but u should realize that W7 is a beta and the main purpose of a beta is get a general consensus, opinion, etc of wat type of hardware is being used and the typical usage scenarios of pc users today, and help in fixing bugs.

Cheers!

 

No need for the long version if that's your short conclusion.

You may have had a bad experience with Vista on the Sony, but I can pretty much guarantee that it wasn't Vista itself that was responsible. But until hardware manufacturers quit ruining perfectly good OS's with their own customizations and junk, then people like the OP will continue to think that certain OS's suck, when in fact it's HP and Sony and the rest who suck.

The sad thing is, when Windows 7 is released to the masses, those people aren't going to have the experience that we've had with a clean install of the beta because they're going to get junk installs from HP, Sony, and Toshiba, and it'll be a jumbled and cluttered mess that runs like crap. What's the over/under on how many toolbars will end up pre-loaded on HP's version of IE8?

Microsoft can't control the whole experience the way that Apple can, and too many people want to dump on Microsoft for the failings of the hardware vendors. Vista did not suck. Windows 7 (as of now) does not suck. But I'm guessing after the release of Windows 7 it'll acquire that reputation, just like Vista.

 

One thing that is important to keep in mind is that the IE8 in the win7 beta is in itself a beta so if you have problems with that (and I don't belive anyone that says he/she doesn't 'cause that one is full of bugs) that's a different beta altogether.

If however you have problems like hanging while copying files, crashes or whatnot with the Win7, based on my experience I'd say re-install since for most people everything goes very smooth in win7. In my case I hate Vista but basically because I loved too much the winXP and it's been a tough relationship. But in Vista once I did all the tweaks described around in the forums (disable the annoying notifications, drive indexing etc) everything works very smoothly. Is true by doing those tweaks you basically get a WinXP that looks like Vista (not even because I took Aero and sidebar off).

As far as Win7 is concerned, so far I find it behaving exactly as the Vista on my machine. The only difference would be that in Vista I had to do a lot of tweaks to make it run as smooth as it does while Win7 runs perfect without any tweaks. Is nothing major in terms of system speed but if I were to do a fresh install of the system later on this year and I'd have to choose Vista or Win7 I'd go with Win7 just to avoid searching again for all the tweaks that make Vista perfect. I'd probably not upgrade just for the sake of the upgrade as long as my Vista runs as good as it does now.

PS as far as XP is concerned, we tend to forget but we were doing a lot of tweaks to that one too in order to squeeze it to the fastest possible setup, but since XP stayed for long we knew all those settings almost by heart.

 

The Xbox 360 is pretty good. Maybe if Microsoft made their own line of computers, it would be rockin.

 

While everyone's entitled to their own opinion and preferences, you're over-the-top harshness and exaggerations of vista and 7 hate shows that you maybe aren't the bastion of being completely objective and unbiased

 

One problem I have had with vista sp1 is copying or deleting large amounts of smaller files or still have slow transfer speeds over my wireless network between my vista laptop and XP desktop. I understand that probably could be fixed with a newer router/access point.. ( I use an SMC barricade router/wireless access point dated back to 2000. But it works much faster on my 2001 Toshiba satellite laptop.

But even within Vista itself I still have issues when copying large amounts of files/or deleting them in vista.. Have that dumb calculating time etc.. And for some reason I can't work with large amounts of files or files that have multiple gigs within my powerdesk program manager which I much prefer over windows explorer. Sure its better then it was pre sp1 which was more or less catastrophic in its networking performance and was well documented and was inexcusable for a final build release.

I have not tried W7 yet but my hopes is it will work faster on my wireless network and will better manage large amounts of files that are deleted/moved copied etc.. And will also work better for large file sizes. My hunch is the dreaded built in DRM is whats at issue with vista and most likely be with W7. It would be so nice if MS would just can the DRM in W7 but that will never happen. And is also why many people will not move to anything over XP.. the last non DRM'd OS that MS will probably ever produce.

 

This was your bad luck. An average PC user should be able to handle Windows without any problems.

 

Obviously that won't happen.

Too bad Microsoft can't negotiate the licensing agreements in such a way as to force vendors to provide a "clean" installation of the operating system and prohibit them from installing third-party programs and utilities. But in addition to revolt from the hardware vendors, I'm guessing you'd see some action from the Department of Justice as they readied yet another anti-trust case against MS.

 

Yeah. They'd be loud, hot, and the optical drive would have an 80% fail rate. And every one would eventually get a RROD.

Yeah, a Microsoft computer would be great.

 

No worse than any PC. I've had a 360 for 2 years now and it hasn't broken on me once. Same with the 2 laptops I've owned, I haven't had any hardware malfunctions at all (the hinges broke on the Acer I had but I did drop it several times on the hinge side and hinges are the weakest part of a laptop as I understand it).

Many people experience failures, many don't, you have to take your chances and hope that your lucky.

The Xbox 360 on the other hand has had a small fraction of it's user base affected with RROD and optical drive failures are not 80% of all machines, either that or I and many other people have been very lucky.

I think the point SwitchThreeSixty was trying to make is that an M$ computer would be a box that you don't have to do anything OS related with and just plug it in and use it.

 

I have a 360, and absolutely love it... but if the 360 is any indication, i really would not want to see a Microsoft branded computer.

 

+1

Let MSFT do what they do best; software. Having said that, I don't mind their mice.

 

I was using a bit of hyperbole, but I apologize for the confusion.

Either way, the Xbox 360 failure rate has been between 16-30% since production, which is 5-10 times higher than the industry standard (PS3 and Wii are approximately 3%). It could be inferred statistically that this would create at least a 3x higher than common failure rate if Microsoft created a computer. It's not guaranteed that such would be the case, obviously, but it's statistically speaking.

As for myself, I have already returned one Xbox 360 for a failed optical drive, and all of my friends except one and myself have had a RROD.

EDIT: Oh, not to mention the two Play-and-Charge kits that have gone bad within 8 months, and now no kit will work with my wireless controller.

 

I've done a lot of reading lately about the problems that plague the Xbox, and the stories I've read (one in particular: Xbox 360 defects...) put the numbers quite high - as high as 30% according to some reports. When compared to the industry standard 3%, that's a huge number of defective consoles!

Now, I definitely wouldn't compare the Xbox problems to any computer problems. Microsoft rushed the Xbox to production, knowing that they had a number of hardware issues, and decided they would have ample time to fix the problems in later releases, discovering and fixing the bugs as they went. The computer market is not like the gaming market, and there's no big rush to get a new computer out there; the competition is in chipsets and CPUs, where Microsoft is smart not to tread. I'm sure they would be able to bundle components, slap the Microsoft name on it, and be quite successful. But, since software is a more lucrative market with larger profit margins, I don't think we'll see a Microsoft computer in the near future.

 

The current Xbox 360s have a failure rate of >3%.

They've pretty much ironed out the problems. They're quite, cool and quite reliable these days.

 

i'm sorry but you're no layman considering you post on a notebookforum.

a layman would be like "forum? what the hell's a forum?"

and in response to you not being able to get gadgets working. thats a bug in the beta thats a result of you turning UAC off. this will undoubtedly get resolved in the finals release.

as for your other problems, they seem like nonsense.