All Things Windows Phone - Apps, Phones, and Discussion

I'm not seeing it. It lacks the distinctive camera protrusion of the One X, and it comes in a variety of brightly-colored polycarbonate (like Nokia), unlike the conservative color schemes HTC has always used. The top and bottom are ramrod-straight (like Nokia), unlike the bar-of-soap look of the One X (caused by the curved corner extending well onto the top edge).

The yellow-bottom-bar issue on the 8S also erases any doubt in my mind that styling similarities to existing phones are coincidental. There's no way the 8S was designed without a long, hard look at the Xperia U.

I support any company's right to smack-talk abut derivative styling. It's not like they're suing for ONE BILLION DOLLARS in Judge Koh's courtroom or anything They're just saying what a lot of people, myself included, thought.

 

TBH, I always thought the protruding camera on the One X wasn't so much a design feature as much as a compromise. The phone itself is thinner than the sensor they used, lenses included. I think they've probably found a smaller sensor that retains the same performance for this design.

And while I do agree somewhat about the 8S, the 8X is still blatant One X derivative to me. It looks like the One X, with marginally sharper corners. Even the screen design and how the glass fits into the shell says One X.

Also:

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Well seems like Sprint isn't getting anything new here, I'll be done with them by the end of the year as soon as I get another job~

 

The color is a big part of it for me. Has HTC in its history ever done brightly-colored polycarbonate phones like this before? This sort of styling has always been so profoundly Nokia to me.

 

I look at the color as just them following fashion trends. The colors that Nokia used and the ones HTC used are all really popular right now.

It's a slightly different palette every year.

It DOES go against their traditional design ethos, but they ARE trying to re-invent themselves.

 

Who are the other manufacturers making phones that are brightly-colored slabs? I had thought it was just Nokia, not an industry-wide thing. The Galaxy S3 and HTC One X are both monochromatic, I thought, and the iPhone 5 is white, black, and metal.

EDIT: I see a red and blue Galaxy S3 were added after the launch, but they're subdued colors, not the sort of racing-color yellow that the Lumia 920 and now the 8X use.

 

Windows Phones have kind of evolved more into fashion phones. Fashion right now is bright colors. Simple as that, IMO. Look at Apple's iPod Touch line. Even Apple is moving into colors. I think it looks elegant and happy.

Samsung is just using their weird "nature" colors. The gunmetal Note II actually looks pretty good, but the others I'm not interested in. White didn't really work into the GS III design very well. Neither did the other colors they chose.

 

These pictures really show how different they are. Very different approach to shape, and overall the device is very HTC to me, not a clone of the Lumia.

 

We can agree to disagree on the 8X. Can we at least all agree that the color-contrasting chin on the HTC 8S is painfully derivative of the Sony Xperia line?

What I can't figure out, though, is why Microsoft decided to emphasize HTC over Nokia in terms of WP8.

HTC rekindles its old Microsoft romance and bets on Windows Phone 8 | The Verge

Nokia has gone all-in with WP8; HTC has not. Nokia's Lumia 900, on just one carrier, sold as well as all HTC WP7 phones on all carriers during the same timeframe. The Lumia 920 has created a lot of interest in non-Windows-Phone people with its innovative features, whereas the 8X doesn't really offer anything (besides brightly-colored cases and a different OS) that Android users don't already have. Hell, when Microsoft unveiled the Surface, the Type Cover was shown in Nokia Blue and other typically-Nokia vibrant colors, leading some to speculate that Nokia would be involved with Surface tablets.

I just don't see a reason for Microsoft to emphasize HTC to the detriment of Nokia in terms of WP8 partners. It caught me completely by surprise.

 

I don't think that you are giving HTC enough credit here. Both of these phones look pretty great and seem to have a lot of thought and effort behind them.

I also think it is great that Microsoft is showing a company besides Nokia a lot of support. If Microsoft continued to just play favorites with Nokia, other hardware makers would have little incentive to spend a lot of time and effort developing Windows Phone devices. Giving HTC some more attention and backing seemed to really push them to build a better device, and it is great that Microsoft is showing them support.

 

pure speculation, but i had a thought that maybe this has a little something to do with it. not like nokia is on the brink of going belly-up, far from it in fact, but i think microsoft may have realized it'd be unwise to put all their eggs in one troubled basket. i was all but sold on the 920 until today's announcement. but then again i'll probably wait for WP8.5 anyway.

signed,
the proud owner of an HTC windows phone

 

Ding Ding Ding. Winner.

Back when Windows Phone 7 was announced, Microsoft made LG it's "premier" partner, likely severely damaging their relationship with HTC in the process: HTC Surround, etc were ok devices but nowhere near the level of innovation that HTC was known for.....clearly phoned in design but I digress....

What did LG do? Release 1 or 2 mediocre Windows Phones, not market them, and then they're not in the game for WP8's launch.

MS got burned when only Samsung seemingly remained somewhat interested in Windows Phone. The deal with Nokia, especially allowing them to make deeper changes to the OS than others, likely just further pushed HTC away from truly committing.

I think that they don't want to risk anything this time around. Hell, they're honestly lucky they get a chance to give the platform yet another shot of adrenaline...doesn't happen too often. As such they're willing to spread the wealth and try to get as many makers on their good side, and HTC's an important partner to butter up, especially with their history with Microsoft.

 

I read that Nokia agreed to make the Lumia 920 an exclusive to AT&T (like it did with the 900) and the HTC "is the face of Windows Phone" statement was in retaliation for that. You just can't compete with the iPhone and the Galaxy S3 with a one-carrier-only phone, no matter how innovative it is. From reports, the 8X will be on at least three carriers.

 

Or maybe the world does not revolve around Nokia, and Microsoft wanted to show another dedicated hardware supporter some support?

 

No need for snark, dude.

This isn't putting them on equal footing with Nokia. It's elevating them above Nokia:

HTC rekindles its old Microsoft romance and bets on Windows Phone 8 | The Verge

It's a surprising move considering that Nokia advertised the hell out of the Lumia 900 (live launch in Times Square with Nicki Minaj, that TV ad with the guy showing off a cyan Lumia 900 to a girl in his study group in the library that was on TV like every commercial break for months), whereas HTC never actually marketed or promoted their WP7 products, even the really good ones (the Titan II), instead focusing their marketing on their Android phones.

I'm not saying it's a bad move--it may have been necessary if Nokia did in fact give exclusive rights to the Lumia 920 to AT&T--but it caught a lot of people off-guard. The Verge had a couple surprised-sounding editorials about it.

 

I was pretty critical of HTC yesterday, but I've come around 180 degrees. Here is why the HTC 8X will be my next Windows Phone:

Commitment to smaller carriers.

150 carriers in 50 countries. That's the official announcement HTC made yesterday. As someone commited to a smaller carrier (US Cellular), this really matters. The companies that make a great phone and then ONLY sell it on AT&T just don't get it. Not everyone wants AT&T.

Simple, modest, but well-executed.

The 8X doesn't have the innovative new features that the Lumia 920 does, nor does it have the unbelievable screen-size-to-weight ratio of the Ativ S. But initial reports are that screen quality, camera quality, and case feel are all excellent. Sometimes a phone doesn't have to be groundbreaking in order for it to be pleasing. New technology can break six months down the line. An unbelievable screen-size-to-weight ratio can mean it doesn't feel as "solid."

In short, while HTC does not win the spec war or the new-technology war, it seems committed to offering excellent execution and tactile quality, and I value that.

Great sound

I'm a Zune Pass holder and I use my phone as a mobile music player A LOT. HTC is more focused on sound quality than either of the other two WP8 manufacturers.

It looks really, really good

In two dimensions, I thought the design was derivative. The 8X of the Lumia 900, the 8S of the Sony Xperia U. In three dimensions, it looks more unique, and the bright colors seem to be cribbed from WP itself as opposed to from Nokia.

 

That has been a LONG standing issue with HTC handsets. Even when they advertise "Beats" audio, the audio ends up being really sub-par. It's filled with EMI and distortion. Even the One X models suffered from this, and most other Qualcomm devices to a lesser extent (including the NAM GSIII models).

Nokia has had some pretty stellar audio quality in the past and they never seem to advertise it. All the Nokia's I can remember have been very clean, audio wise. But then I haven't tried their Windows Phones, and there's only so much you can do with a sub-par DAC/DAC configuration.

If you're focusing on music at all, Qualcomm disappoints. Samsung is the only one right now using decent DAC's and Supercurio is working on bringing Voodoo to the WM1811 right now. The WM1811 has more power than the WM8994E, and it should be just as clean.

 

Thanks for the info. I use my phone as my primary music player both out walking and running (with headphones) or in the car (3.5 mm jack linked to my Civic Si's aux-in port).

If the Lumia 920 and the HTC 8X are both offered on my carrier (US Cellular), I'd probably get the Lumia, but I think the chances of US Cellular getting the 8X are about 80% and the chances of them getting the Lumia 920 are about 1%. And the second-tier devices (8S and Lumia 820) don't interest me at all...I want the cameras and screen quality that the flagships deliver.

 

man, i jumped the gun/was a tad screwed over by htc on that one. i kept a samsung sch-i760 (WM6.1) for just under four years, bought my titan in november when it released, and the titan II was announced what, early january? with pretty much no rumor or inkling of its release? adding insult to injury i travel to nyc and boston somewhat often, cities/locales that've had LTE for awhile now (with hartford being added to that list by year's end). but hey, business sort of as usual i suppose. if i wasn't planning on waiting for second-gen WP8, i would definitely be getting an 8X so they didn't lose me as a customer or anything. (in fact, if the 8X was available in orange i'd have to get one just to match my surface pro). in any event my titan is still quite the handset.

 

One cool thing about the removable/swappable case for the Lumia 820: it allows for entirely different case designs (not just colors) to be fit on the same phone. In addition to the main case design revealed at the Lumia 820's launch, here's a ruggedized version (complete with rubber corners and a rubber lip around the screen. Compared to putting a "rugged" case OVER the OEM case, like you do on most smartphones, this is a far sleeker solution. My father's iPhone 4S is pretty huge when it's in its OtterBox case.

Nokia details new ruggedized shells for Lumia 820 - Engadget

 

The best demonstration of Nokia's optical image stabilization you will ever see. Russians just have more fun.

 

^That is quite impressive.

 

do you guys (mitlov and hal) have windows phones (or windows mobile phones)?

Sent from my PI39100 using Board Express

 

I have in the past. I had a Samsung Focus and Focus Flash.

I actually loved them both, but I need certain apps and I'm an Android developer... so I didn't keep them.

 

Yes, I have an HTC 7 Pro (US Cellular's version of the HTC Arrive) running WP7.5 Mango. I'm up for a new device in March and I'll take the best WP8 phone US Cellular gets (they've announced they'll have multiple WP8 devices, but haven't specified which ones yet). I've used Android and iOS devices, iOS more than Android, and personally like WP the best.

Why do you ask?

 

Low-light-photography test from the same Russian reviewers:

 

Glove-or-fingernail-friendly touchscreen test from the same Russian reviewers:

 

Damn I want that Nokia!
Too bad that most (including Nokias) look pretty horrible. At least not to my liking...

 

you both strike me as being similarly acquainted with the platform in general. i was on windows mobile since 2005 (when the motorola q came out) and i don't see myself switching to any non-windows platform for as long as one's around. i actually switched carriers this past november to get the titan. i'd been with verizon since my first cellphone in 2001. ten years of loyalty given up because of their falling out with microsoft. ridiculous to me that arguably the biggest U.S. carrier has been pushing customers away from windows phone till recently. i'm think we'll start to see that change pretty significantly this fall/winter. i was claiming to all my buddies when WP7 first came out two years ago that microsoft would have 20% global market share within five years and they've been laughing at me about it ever since. i expect at least a few of them to go WP for their next upgrade.

 

I agree. Haters have been joking about the single-digit market share of Windows Phone for a while. But if you look at Android, it didn't actually have mainstream success until year three. Windows Phone (as opposed to the basically-unrelated Windows Mobile) will be entering year three with WP8. I think with some top-quality sexy hardware (Lumia 920, 8X in particular) on multiple carriers (the 8X will be on 150 carriers in 50 countries, including AT&T, Verizon, and T-Mobile in the US, and the Lumia 920 is on both AT&T and Verizon according to recent leaks), plus Microsoft's emphasis on the ecosystem between PC, Xbox, and mobile devices, I think WP8 has a serious chance of mainstream success that WP7 didn't have.

If bright colors aren't your thing, the Lumia 920 is available in matte grey and matte black.

 

It's not the colours, although I like more conservative black colour. I kinda don't see the point of that colour frame just makes it look ugly. New HTC looks horrible too. I would prefer Titan or any other WMP7 phone from HTC design wise, rather than what they've came up now. Gnusmas ATIV looks nice though.
Or maybe the problem is I never saw them live (really, it's hard to find a WMP to try it out).

 

I'm surprised you didn't move away.

I ran win mo for years and when I heard about WP7 I was excited...until i heard about the lack of multitasking (this was early...like the Windows Phone Insider forum MS ran was still running...and I was a member) and initial lack of customiziation.

I ended up ditching my Omnia i900/910 and wen't with Android. It was literally the closest thing to Windows Mobile that was actually being supported.

I love launcher7 and have been using it on and off for a while...makes me want Windows Phone more and more. Love seeing the animation you get when you launch an app from the Live Tiles.

 

WP7.5 was a big jump from WP7 (I don't know if it's "true multitasking" from a technical point, but hold the back button and you can easily toggle between the five most recent apps). From what I've heard, WP8 will be another big leap forward. But if the all-out customization of Android is what you crave, I'd stick with that. WP will always be more of a locked-down idiot-proof OS (like iOS) than an ultimate-malleability-in-the-hands-of-a-techhead OS like Android.

And yeah, the aesthetic continuity of the OS, and the attractive-but-not-overdone animations, really make it a pleasure to interact with during run-of-the-mill day-to-day tasks.

 

that's kinda sorta what i waited for. it's also now part of the reason why i'm pretty set on waiting for the second generation WP8 lineup. and yea, fast app switching is solid. took me a little while to get used to/remember it was there but now i utilize it daily.

i still don't understand the whole file system-lockout thing though. it's really quite frustrating. where are email attachments or files i download from IE (and everywhere else) stored? when are they removed/deleted? how am i expected to cleanup? i still haven't gotten around to setting up the SDK but that's one workaround from what i understand.

another funny story... my exchange server does't have a certificate issued by a trusted authority so it requires manual installation. imagine me, on windows mobile for over five years ("unrelated" is a nice way to word that for sure), excited as h3ll to have finally upgraded, get the titan, and the thing refuses to sync! wouldn't even allow web access! haha, that to me is the quintessential difference between going windows or iOS (and, to a lesser degree, android). i personally don't want my devices to work right out of the box. it's more fun when they don't and i have to figure it out. but that's much harder and much more frustarting to do when i can't even see what's going on with the file system, let alone access it.

 

This is diametrically opposite from my feelings, though I know people who feel the way you do (including my brother). I honestly think that Android (for mobile devices) and Linux (for PCs) is the only way to go with tastes like that. I don't think Apple or MS will make products going forward that target that sort of electronics-tinkerer instead of the mainstream user.

 

agreed. i actually had no idea about the file system deal before i got the phone so when i first ran into the certificate issue i was like arrrgghhhh! where the funk is explorer?! and i also agree that there's some pretty significant parallels between PC OSs and mobile OSs. they've both come that far.

so WP8 for you?

 

I'm locked in contract on this Droid 3 until august if not a bit longer. I don't know where I'll end up after that.

It depends on screen size or physical qwerty. If Windows Phone 8/8.5 devices have a display the size of say...Galaxy Note or have a hardware qwerty....i'd be up to it.

 

that was a pretty big draw of the titan. 4.7" is plenty of screen to type with both thumbs oriented in portrait. i'm a little disappointed about the ≤4.5" screen sizes of these new devices, with the exception of the ativ s's 4.8" screen. hopefully more are forthcoming. (i know, i'm talking about .3" here. haha)

i would think hardware keyboards will soon be near-impossible to find. aside from the form factor aspect, there must be a cost factor (taking into account very little demand anymore).

 

There are very credible rumors of a 4.7"-5.0" HTC device on the way with WP8, though it won't be available on launch day (the flagship for launch is the 4.3" HTC 8X). I haven't heard anything suggesting a QWERTY model on the way. That could have happened if RIM had accepted MS's offer to become a hardware manufacturer for WP8 instead of making their own OS, but they rebuffed that offer.

 

Elop running out of time to turn Nokia around | Reuters

 

Sensationalism and negativity. The plan is not to useat the single most popular smartphone in the United States in two months. The goal is to turn a net profit. And you don't need 50% market share to do that. Look at Mac computers with their 10%-ish market share.

And it's unfair to place the blame on Elop. The Lumia 900 dominated WP sales after its release in the US. Nokia designed a cool phone and actually bothered to promote it (unlike Samsung and HTC with their WP7 devices)...but it was dominating a very small piece of pie, because Microsoft itself wasn't investing much energy in promoting the OS at the time. With WP8, the carriers are now excited instead of ambivalent. If Nokia claims half the WP8 sales and WP8 is 15% of the US market instead of 3-5%, that'll be good.

 

I disagree.
It's a pretty even-handed summary of Elop's 2 years in charge - market-share has dropped and the company has lost money, with no clear signs that it's any nearer to turning things around.

He'll only be given so long to try and prove that the switch to WP was the right one before they're forced to get rid of him and re-evaluate their position ...again.

There's no point saying 'look at Apple' because Nokia are not and never will be Apple, they will never be able to achieve the sorts of profit margins Apple can - not to mention the vast majority of Apple's profits don't come from their Mac line, they come from the iOS devices, the related media sales and the licensing of accessories. Apple make their money from the markets they they have a significant market-share in, not from markets where they're in the minority.
Not to mention, even if you ignore market-share and only focus on profits, Nokia are still failing.

Why?
He decided to switch Nokia to WP, if it doesn't pay off then it's his fault.

Those are two absolutely enormous ifs.

For a start, unlike the launch of the 900, Nokia face much stiffer competition from HTC and Samsung, competition that would only intensify if WP's market-share were to increase.
Secondly, there's nothing to suggest that WP will see it's market-share rise significantly, it's been sliding for months on end and new and compelling Android devices are hitting the market all the time, further eroding any chance MS have of persuading people to switch.

Nokia basically have to pin their hopes on sales of Windows 8 kick-starting sales of Windows Phone 8 but, if that doesn't happen, it doesn't matter how big a fish they are in the WinPho pond, it won't be enough.

 

What ELSE has happened in the past two years? The iPhone juggernaut has been at full steam and there's this thing called "Android" that moved from being a niche OS to utterly dominant. You can't just say "look at Nokia three years ago, look at Nokia today, clearly Elop is to blame." Symbian, along with Blackberry OS and Windows Mobile (different than Windows Phone), are yesterday's OSes. They're just not competitive with iOS and Android. Think sticking with Symbian would have been a better choice than going Microsoft? Read Engadget's review of the 808 Pureview (their last Symbian phone) and note the "software" section. Nokia 808 PureView review: the future of mobile imaging, wrapped in the smartphone past -- Engadget

Since Symbian was a sinking ship regardless of what Elop did, he had two choices: go Android and try to duke it out with the well-established big three (Samsung, HTC, Motorola) and several smaller competitors (LG, Sony, etc). Small fish in a big pond. Or he could have gone with Windows Phone and been a big fish in a small pond...and the latter option involved financial support from MS. So obviously he went the latter. He got burned by the WP7.8 versus WP8 upgrade issue, and it's been a long wait for WP8, but given carrier excitement for WP8 (Verizon has boldly claimed it will do for WP8 what it did for Android, T-Mobile will have the 8X as well as other phones, US Cellular has stated it's "excited" about WP8 and will carry multiple devices, etc), it's clear WP8 is going to be a bigger market success than WP7 was.

So Elop made the best choice he could after taking the pilot's seat of an aircraft whose wings were on fire. Nokia's not doing great, but they're doing a whole hell of a lot better than RIM is given the same situation. I'd much rather be a Nokia stockholder than a RIM stockholder...wouldn't you?

 

iPhone 5 and Nokia Lumia 920 face off with image stabilization test (hands-on video) -- Engadget

OH SNAP

Not just the stabilization (which is awesome), but the image is sharper and has better color. GREAT camera.

The Lumia 920 looks like the perfect device for anyone who has ever had to chase a toddler or a kindergartener, filming whatever awesome thing they're doing at the moment. Now if only they'd announce carrier availability...

 

The hits just keep on coming!



From the lab: Lumia 920 low-light shootout with Nokia 808, iPhone 5, HTC One X and Galaxy S III -- Engadget

 

^In regards to low light shooting on ANY smartphone...

By looking at the results, I would rather just not take any photos at night. Unless it's in a tripod/stand, the Lumia 920 couldn't produce even one non-blurry handheld photo.

 

Smartphone cameras are about being prepared when the perfect spontaneous photo happens, not setting up a deliberate photo shoot. I'd rather have a good smartphone camera than a bad one when out with my kids in the evening in case The Massive Cuteness (TM) happens. If we're going to Disneyland, on the other hand, I'll bring a real camera.

 

And if you're shooting during the day, that's fine.

If you're shooting at night, I think my memory can retain a better picture than any current smartphone can capture.

 

I like being able to take pictures of my kids sometimes when we're having fun, and that's not always at noontime. If you've got kids and prefer to just remember everything instead of taking photos as keepsakes, well, more power to you, but a lot of people approach relationships and kids differently.

Regardless, if your comment on a comparison between smartphone cameras is "I'd rather just remember stuff than take pictures," um...so what? Doesn't exactly change the fact that phone A dramatically outperformed phones B, C, and D. That's like an Amish person jumping into a Clevo versus Alienware shootout discussion with "I'd rather be plowing a field than playing Starcraft." Duly noted.

 

Never did I say that there weren't dramatic improvements. That's a given after looking at the samples, as anyone with decent vision can tell.

What I'm saying is that even with as much improvement as has been shown by the 920 at night, they're still horrible pictures when taken handheld.