Yet another brick for the wall?

My wife and I both have virtually identical Samsung NP355 (AMD processor) laptops. Both have been upgraded to Windows 10 and both have recentish bios updates. Hers was built in late 2012, mine in early 2013.
On Sunday, the wife's laptop came up with an error message (bsod), was put to one side while it restarted and was forgotten for a few hours. When we returned to it, it had not restarted so we turned it off and then back on again. It refused to restart.
After many hours of reading this forum and others and trying every idea I have found so far, I can say that:-
The power comes on - little blue lights where they are supposed to be.
The optical disk drive can be heard to do a reset or seek or whatever at power up.
The fan runs briefly at power up, then stops.
The screen stays black -no back light at all.
A separate monitor plugged into the HDMI socket detects nothing - so sync or picture.
None of the F keys does anything - I have tried F2, F4, F8 and F10 repeatedly, both holding and tapping.
If I plug a usb stick with a bootable (FreeDos as suggested in another thread on here) OS on it into the usb2 sockets, very little happens. If I plug it into a usb3 socket then sometimes the light on the usb stick flashes a few times and then stops. It is not consistent - sometimes it does not flash at all.
I tried writing Mkdir Test into the stick autorun file but it did not result in a Test directory appearing.
I created a recovery usb stick from my laptop - which should be UEFI compatible - and tried it in both usb2 and usb3 sockets and nothing happens - maybe a light flashes but it is not very visible on this stick.
I have tried all this usb stick stuff with the HDD in the laptop and removed.
I have tried putting my laptop's HDD in the wifes laptop (frightening) but nothing seemed to happen. Ditto wifes HDD in my laptop - well my laptop powered up (and ran?) but the screen stayed blank for too long for my nerves to take it and I turned it off.
If I connect the HDD from the wife's laptop to mine via a sata/usb interface, my laptop eventually sees the drive in File Explorer but cannot read the different partitions at all. Device Manager eventually says the device has been disabled due to errors. I wonder if this could be due to the sata/usb interface or whether it means the drive is faulty.
I have also unsoldered the CMOS battery from the board, left it for a minute and reconnected - but that changes nothing.

The wifes laptop bios is/was probably set to the worst possible options for repair purposes

I am trying to decide whether the HDD is the main fault and the rest is just me missing too many hurdles in trying non-HDD restart, the bios that is broke - but why does the HDD play up - or something else such as the CPU going into meltdown.

Before I try anything else, I wonder if anyone has any advice, suggestions, comments or conclusions that will give me a lead in what direction to go in. Any help will be appreciated.

 

Hi EnglishMohican, welcome to NBR. Sorry to hear about your problems there.

I won't be able to engage much to help you until this weekend -- hopefully others will before then. But instead of letting you hanging and further experimenting, I want to refer you to our main threads for this kind situation.

1) In the Samsung Forum sticky list (top of Samsung forum), under "Boot and Bricking", check the linked thread for "F-keys don't work, cannot enter BIOS". It specifically covers situations where the computer isn't completely dead and might be persuaded to boot a disk or USB stick, which is then used to clear the problem. There is a summary in post #7, but you really need to read though the thread.

2) Check TANWare's "Accumulated Bricking Solutions" sticky thread (again, top of Samsung forum). It includes cases with (almost) completely dead laptops.

In your case I would say a failed HDD sounds likely, combined with corruption of the BIOS/NVRAM which prevents you from entering BIOS (common when installing Win10 in UEFI mode on older Samsung laptops). If so, there is a chance that a properly formatted USB stick or DVD (matching the computer's UEFI setting) can be booted after disconnecting the HDD. This, in turn, can be used to clear the BIOS/NVRAM as described in the thread mentioned under (1) above.

Admittedly, most of this information is based on Intel models. I don't know if it's different with AMD models.

You'll need to know whether the laptop has UEFI enabled or disabled since that determines how to format the USB stick (or any boot disk). If it was originally delivered with Win8 or newer, UEFI was enabled by default; if delivered with Win7 UEFI was disabled by default. And since you reset CMOS, we can assume it's back to default settings now.

The sticky list also has links to more info on that topic (under "General").

 

Thank you for your welcome and advice.

I am currently trying the "disconnect CMOS battery for 48 hours" suggestion so will not make much physical progress for a few days. Probably a good thing as it gives me time to read through the threads you suggest. Many of the things I tried came from dipping into those threads but a more careful read and more careful adherence to the suggestions may help

 

From what you have done so far the hdd seems to have suffered a mechanical failure. The reason you may be able to see the drive is the SATA controller is initializing but the platters may not be providing data. Best way to be sure of this is if you have an enclosure or dock put it in there and see if you can hear or feel it spin up and or random head position changes.

A dead drive presents its own problems if you had secure boot enabled. but let us know if the drive is dead.

 

I plugged the drive into what I have called the sata/usb interface but would be better called a dock. The drive certainly spins up. I believe I can feel head movements but it is very slight so I cannot be sure. So the signs are that the HDD is mechanically OK.

I have tried reading the HDD with a windows machine and with a Linux machine and both agreed they could not read the individual partitions though the linux machine thought it knew the types of each partition. However, I am not yet convinced that it is necessarily the HDD that is wrong. Tomorrow I will try the HDD from my machine in the same dock and see if I can read that. If I can, then the wife's HDD is duff. Otherwise the evidence that it is duff is very thin.

Changing topic, I followed the thread Dannemand pointed to above and downloaded ITEM_20130801_11184_WIN_P07ABF.exe from the link provided. P07ABF is the same version I have on my Laptop and probably the one on my wifes. I tried to follow the procedure given (run prog, don't press go or cancel until folder __Samsung_Update_ copied) but I do not get such a folder at the point where it asks Run or Cancel. I checked the AppData folder for both my own user and for the Admin user.

If I unpack the .exe using 7zip, I get two files, one is called Setup.exe and the second is BIOSEC.rom. Running Setup.exe puts up the run/cancel message. If I am going to get a Samsung Update folder, I am going to have to run the update and I am doubtful if I will get it then.

All further advice/help appreciated.

 

I just read further through the Booting and Bricking thread and found a post about an NP350 that suggests that BIOSEC.rom is normal for laptops. One puzzle down.

 

OK - so today, I continued testing the HDD to see if I could convince myself it was broken. I now believe that it definitely is poorly, though it might be corruption that could be sorted with a format - or maybe not. Essentially a third windows machine can read the data partition on my HDD perfectly well when connected through the dock, initially it likes the wife's HDD but when asked to read it - it just gives up and decides it is a dead partition. Windows machines do not seem to see any of the other partitions on those HDDs. My Linux machine sees all the partitions but cannot get the wife's HDD to give it any sensible answers when it tries to read a partition. With my HDD, it gets much happier results - though due to other problems, I did not push it too hard.
So if the wife's HDD is unusable for the moment at least, where next?
I did not get any joy from my first attempts at booting alternatives as the laptop just ignored them all. Currently, it is in pieces waiting its 48 hours to ensure the Bios is back to default. I believe default to be secure boot as it was bought as a Windows 8 laptop.

 

Might give Windows PE's boot sector repair tool a try (both MBR and GPT are supported). Write the usb stick from a system that has the external dock attached and its drivers installed (usually generic usb host controller). If you use Macrium Reflect to do this (Create Rescue Media) then it'll include the necessary drivers.

 

I do not understand.
Is your suggestion intended to repair the wife's harddisk? If so, I think it is damaged too badly for that to work. As I cannot read anything from it, then rewriting the boot sector (or the GPT equivalent) is unlikely to be possible.
Or are you trying to find a way to make one of the usb sticks that I produced earlier boot successfully independant of the hard disk so as to repair the bios on the wife's laptop.
Or have I missed the point entirely?

 

Yes, since it's possible only the partition table was damaged, not the actual data. If that is indeed the situation, then you could run a data-recovery tool as well. However, just doing the sector-repair could make it bootable again as well, saving ' re-install & re-configure' hassle.

 

OK, thank you for the suggestions. I am currently running TestDisk on the drive. So far it has found both GPT partition tables to be unusable so I have started it searching for partions to see if we can re-create the partion tables. If I can do that, then may be the time to try to get the boot data back in place but at the present it is struggling (slow and warnings)

Assuming the disk is duff, would an SSD be a good option - I can use it elsewhere if all fails but if it adds to the problems with the firmware, maybe not a good idea?

Tomorrow I will reassemble the laptop and see if its long power down has resolved anything. Does anyone know whether the Samsung logo is firmware based or disk based? If it does not appear, does that prove the firmware is broken?

 

Sure, good choice.

Doesn't matter.

It's in the bios firmware. Apart from a corrupt bios, it could be due the cmos reset as well; default may be 'no-logo boot'? If so, it'd be all text, instead of a splash screen.

 

@EnglishMohican: I like the thoroughness with which are approaching this. Many users cannot be made to read much more than a headline or do random Google searches, and end up digging themselves deeper into the hole.

After the 48 hours, if you are still unable to boot the (presumably failed) HDD, I suggest you disconnect the HDD and try booting different external devices: An UEFI-compatible WinPE USB stick (GPT/FAT32), a BIOS-compatible WinPE USB stick (MBR/NTFS or MBR/FAT32), and various DVDs (some older Windows DVDs were not UEFI compatible, newer ones should be).

The purpose of this is to force the computer to look for a boot device other than the HDD -- which often fails once UEFI starts acting up. You can try booting either WinPE or Windows Setup (7 or newer) with the goal of being able to re-flash the BIOS or clear NVRAM.

Of course the fact that your HDD is GPT means UEFI mode must have been enabled, and I am guessing the computer was delivered with Win8 originally (UEFI and SecureBoot enabled by default). But IF it was originally a Win7-model, resetting CMOS will have reverted it to non-UEFI -- which makes for easier booting of external devices, BUT which also makes it incompatible with your current HDD until you can get back into BIOS and re-enable UEFI.

I did see your post about the BIOS updater not unpacking to let you copy its files. I noticed some other post in @isosunrise's roll-back thread mentioning this. I wonder if this is because of a different BIOS (and thus different utilities) used for the AMD models.

If you can find an earlier BIOS version, there is a chance it may behave differently. There is a utility in the roll-back thread ( this post) to help search for BIOS updates with a given Platform ID (ABF in your case).

Otherwise see if the Setup.exe you were able to unpack has command line arguments to either clear NVRAM or force flash the BIOS (which clears NVRAM as well).

Fingers crossed for you

 

A brief summary of where I have got to:-

The HDD is totally blown - I had 15GB of error messages in the TestDisk log file. I might tackle data recovery sometime in the future but it will be a struggle and there is not much on there of real interest - so it is pended for the moment.

Disconnecting the CMOS backup battery for 48 hours made no difference.

I generated a Windows PE USB stick using Fat32 and Reflect as suggested above but I cannot persuade the laptop to show any real life - it may be living but it is not concious! Evidence for/against:-
Live - Lights come on; fan runs briefly to start up and runs again as the CPU? warms up; USB stick is interrogated by the hub initially but then no further; DVD drives initialises.
Unconcious - No sign of life on screen - no back light - no response of any sort to F keys - once through the initialisation, nothing else happens at all.

I conclude I need a new bios loading and the only way will involve Samsung or me using hardware to re-write the bios.

Questions:-
I have seen a post on here that I cannot find again about a key combination that automatically loads a bare bios image from USB into the BIOS memory. Any hope that that might work for me?
I saw a post many moons ago (elsewhere?) that told of someone who connected a hardware programmer to the right chip on the motherboard and reprogrammed the BIOS using it. Any views on the feasability of that or pointers to further information.
Why does the screen not light up at least - I am surprised that is not a very basic initialisation and wonder if maybe the CPU/GPU have gone into physical meltdown rather than just software meltdown.
Does anybody think my conclusion above is pessimistic?

 

I found the thread about getting a bare bios file to autoload. It is "NP355V5C black screen, BIOS issue?". My case sounds pretty much like the case in that thread.
In the thread, the statement is made "you do not have a mis-flashed bios - only data corruption". Is that a known certainty? Is it just not possible for the software to run amock and damage the bios code as well as the data? If you say that is so, then I will keep trying with the F keys as that must work eventually if the processor is Ok. Otherwise, I am tempted to try the autoload bios code method quoted in the other thread.

 

Thank you for the update. I'm still away from my laptop, so this'll be just a brief response from Tapatalk.

Sorry to hear the the CMOS reset didn't make a difference. TBO it only rarely solves bricking problems (though I remember a few cases).

I don't like the completely black screen either. In fact, I wonder if this is a problem with either the LCD or the ribbon cable connecting it. Most cases of a loose connection cause erratic display, not complete blackness. Others may have better input on this.

If the screen isn't the issue, I would say it's worth looking into either the emergency bios flash (using a specially formatted USB stick and pressing Ctrl-Home on boot) or physical re-flashing of the chip (with an EEPROM burner). Both are covered in TANWare's Accumulated Unbricking sticky thread. There are also a few mentions in Fitztorious's thread and isosunrise's roll-back thread.

It is true that the issue (if not screen or other hardware defect) is more likely corruption of the NVRAM used by BIOS and UEFI than damage of the BIOS code itself. That is why the Sflash command to clear NVRAM has been so successful. But re-flashing BIOS (either through update, roll-back or physical re-flashing) will clear the NVRAM as well.

 

Would still try recovery, just to confirm it's dead-dead. A typical mechanical failure makes ' clicks of death' or no sound at all, not a happily spinning noise.

Yes.

Sure, it's possible. However, that most often requires removal from pcb first (due to the way it's wired up). De-soldering only a few of the pins would make ISP work, only you might as well remove it completely then; much easier since you don't have to research which pins.

Spoiler: programmer with four adapters (my stuff)

The clip thing on the left is what you'd use for ISP. The black, blocky thing at the top is what you'd drop the eeprom (bios chip) in when it you de-soldered one. There's a vbios eeprom inside it on the photo.

Perhaps, an external monitor might rule that out. Also; a broken bios does the same thing, it's quite an important bit, after all.

 

Reprogramming the bios by ctrl-home with a usb stick did not work. Essentially nothing happened - the usb stick was not read. In one of the USB3 slots it was interrogated by the hub but once that was complete - nothing more.

I have tried it with an external monitor before and there was no signal at all.

It seems really, really stupid of Microsoft/Samsung to devise a boot system that can be overridden by the systems own stupidity but not then further overridden by man's ingenuity. I am already refusing to buy anything else Samsung make as they seem totally uncaring, even unprofessional in their attitude to their products once sold. /rant

I think I am going to check as many of the internal power supply points as possible next. I need to increase my confidence that it is not a hardware failure and that putting effort and money into resetting the bios is worthwhile as it has a chance of succeeding.

I believe there is an LPC Debug port on this board and a strap that selects either an NVRAM or the LPC system for booting. I need to re-read the information on that and see if I understood it properly and see if it can possibly provide a way in. I will also investigate taking the bios chip out and reprogramming/replacing that.

I will have a go at rescueing the HDD - it seems likely to be corruption of some sort as mechanically the disk seems fine.

I would like to thank you all for the answers and help you have provided. I think the next phase will take weeks rather than hours so don't hold your breaths for my next post. If I discover anything useful I will post back but if it continues to be a dead laptop I will let this thread lapse. Thank you again.