Problem with missing factory image option in samsung recovery 6 (win 8)

Hi All,


I noticed something really weird with the Samsung recovery app on my new NP900X3E. When I open the program the "factory image" tab appears to be missing but all the others (disk copy, run backup server, help) are there. I chatted to to someone who didn't really sound like he knew anything (via the samsung chat help on their website) who said there is a problem with the factory image and I should take it in for servicing. The weird thing is that when i set up the computer the other day im pretty sure it did appear and i think this was prior to SW update a) updating Recovery from v 6.0.9 something to 6.1, b) updating the BIOS and c) installing a load of windows updates. So i'm pretty sure that may have had something to do with it.

Also in the backup bit there are no points on the timeline - including to factory - available to backup to.

Update - I just got off Samsung support chat (the proper one direct from the computer, not the one on Samsung's website) with someone who looked like they knew what they were doing. He restored the initial version of Recovery and it didn't help. He reckons its a problem caused by either the BIOS or Windows updates I did. hmmmmm

should i just use windows 8 option for creating a bootable disk? whats the difference?

 

Hi alps,

I am sorry, I confess I DID see your question in the Owners Lounge the other day, I just didn't get around to responding.

The first thing to check is whether you can F4 boot Recovery: You may have to temporarily disable Win8's Fast Startup as described in this post (it's about F2, but the same applies to F4). This will boot the actual SRS6 Recovery Software from the Recovery partition.

The Windows app you updated and ran depends on that Recovery partition AND on a special F4 link in the partition table to locate it. If the Recovery partition is gone or the F4 link has been damaged (which can happen when using 3rd party imaging, cloning and partition software) the Windows app will not be able to see the factory image (which is stored on the 2nd Recovery partition).

If you cannot F4 boot Recovery, then most most likely the partition or the F4 link has been damaged. Without a Recovery backup (made while it was still working) it is almost impossible to repair. That's why the Samsung rep said to take it in for Service: They simply re-image the drive for you.

But let's not assume that yet. If you can F4 boot Recovery, there is a good chance it will find the factory image. So try that first. If you DO manage to F4 boot and it can see the Factory Image, I highly recommend you make a bootable factory image backup on a USB stick while you have the chance, using the guide linked below:

Create A Factory Image

In fact, given your situation, I would make two different backups, as described in this post.

Edit: Just re-read your question in the Owners Lounge: The Recovery partitions are hidden and do not have drive letters (unless you manually assign one) so they don't show up in Computer. You will be able to see them in Windows Disk Management. But even if they show up there, that is no guarantee that the partitions and the F4 link are intact.

 

Thanks Dannemand and apologies for the double posting - thought the owner's lounge had become dormant..

I didn't use any 3rd party software or mess around with any of the partitions - all i did was windows and samsung updates.

I will try the F4 boot later this evening and see what happens. I did notice that in control panel>system>system protection available drives for protection are Windows ( C: ) (System) and SAMSUNG_REC2 - what do you make of this?

Also why do you recommend making both a bootable backup and a non-bootable copy of the recovery partition? What's the point of the later if you can't do anything with it?

 

No apologies needed, you followed forum rules to the dot: You posted a question, waited a day (minimum 24 hours), then re-posted in another thread when no response was given. You're good!

And yes, I don't know why it messed up your Recovery, it doesn't sound like you did anything that would cause it. I don't like when Windows System Restore starts "protecting" the recovery partition. It happens mostly if a drive letter is assigned to the Recovery partition (and/or if it's ID is changed to make it a visible NTFS partition). But I have never seen it cause any actual damage to the partition. And maybe it hasn't and you will be able to F4 boot. I really hope so.

I recommend two different types of factory image backups to users who are running on their original SSD (with the original Recovery) and are considering wiping their Recovery to get more space on the SSD. The reason is explained in this post. For users who swap in a new and larger SSD (and keep the original one safe) I say making just the USB backup is fine.

As long as the small Recovery partition (containing Recovery Software) is still present, users can still F4 boot Recovery and restore from a backed up factory image on an external drive or USB.

I'll cross my fingers that your F4 is intact.

 

Have to admit I wasn't aware of the forum rules but glad I complied!

Ok so restarted and pressed F4 which got me into samsung recovery (the app looks identical to the one in the Windows environment). Anyway no luck, there is no tab for factory image or ability to restore to it, just as in windows.

Advice? I dont have any data on this thing yet so happy to wait for BIOS/windows updates that may fix the problem...

 

Thanks for the update. It's good that F4 works, means your Recovery Software partition and F4 link are intact. But puzzling about that factory image (which is stored on the Recovery Data partition).

Please post a screen dump from Windows Disk Management with the disk (in the lower part) visible. Let's see if that partition is there.

Edit: Sorry I was so terse before, I was on Tapatalk.

I am looking for a screen similar to the one displayed below, with the area marked red being visible (your actual partitions will be completely different from mine).



If you see your Recovery Data partition there (named SAMSUNG_REC2, about 22GB) next step is to inspect its content. Use the steps below (copied from another post) to add a drive letter to it:

You can also download and install the free Minitool Partition Wizard (Google it) which will show you the partitions and let you Explore the SAMSUNG_REC2 partition without adding a drive letter.

Please post a screen dump showing the root content of the partition (using Windows File Explorer or the Explore window from Minitool Partition Wizard).

Edit2: Almost forgot: I am skeptical that a BIOS or software update could have caused this -- and that future ones will fix it. Unless you know for sure that your Factory Image showed up previously, I suspect the problem was there from the beginning. If the image (or entire partition) isn't there, you will have to convince Samsung to re-image your SSD. They owe you that.

Was this a refurbed or display unit? I could see this happen if someone who doesn't know Samsung laptops had played with it and deleted the Recovery Data partition to get more space.

 

Ok so I didnt yet have time to do part 2 of the investigation but here is the screen grab of the disk management app:




Yes i'm not sure if the problem was there from the beginning or not - i recall opening recovery and seeing it there before doing the updates but this could have just been a memory of what i saw in the manual of how its supposed to look...

No it's not a refurb - I bought it new from the Microsoft webstore

Does the disk management look normal? I dont see anything with 22GB

 

Thank you. Yes, it looks normal. The 18GB partition is your Recovery Data partition.

The question is if Microsoft Store did something to compact it as part of their Signature treatment, and if that damaged the contents of the Recovery Data partition or the Recovery software's ability to see your factory image. Something is definitely not right.

If the machine is still quite new (as I understand) I would give Microsoft Store a call. You can tell them that:

1) Samsung Recovery boots alright using F4, which means the Recovery Boot/Software partition and its link are intact.

2) The Samsung Recovery Data partition (which contains the factory image) is present on the SSD.

3) Point them to this Samsung guide which contains a screendump highlighting the missing Factory Image tab, to make sure they know what the problem is.

4) Make sure they don't confuse this with Windows' own Recovery features (on the small 499MB partition). That's not what we are looking for here.

I think Microsoft Store will help you. They sold this machine and "optimized" it before shipping it out.

Please keep us posted on your progress. I'll be interested to hear what happened here.

 

Hi Dan,

I chatted to someone from the microsoft webstore help and they basically aren't interested if it's a hardware or 3rd party software issue - advice was to speak to Samsung.

Anyhow, should I try the minitool partition wizard to explore the recovery volume?


By the way I've notice the chassis is slightly warped - when its on a flat surface one of the rubber feet is not touching causing it to wiggle when pushed on one corner. It doesn't disturb when typing or anything but still annoying considering this is a premium machine etc. Any advice?

 

Personally I would be curious what (if anything) is on that Recovery partition, and why Recovery doesn't see the factory image.

But in the interest of getting this solved, I think you should contact Samsung support and request that they re-image the drive. If the machine is new (which I understand), and you have not done anything to mess with the partitions, they should do it under warranty. They normally charge about $40-50 for this.

I would also suggest to them that they make sure Microsoft Store fully knows what they can and cannot do as part of their Signature tweaking of Samsung machines, without breaking the integrity of Samsung's software.

I also suggest this in light of the fact that, even if exploring the Recovery Partition might reveal some clues, it doesn't necessarily lead to a solution -- particularly if the factory image is indeed missing or corrupted. And for my part, I know I will not have much time the next several weeks to respond here, so sending you down a DIY path could be a waste of your time.

I will be very interested in hearing the outcome, regardless of which path you choose

 

Thanks Dan - I probably will go with Samsung re-image option in the end but i'm also curious to see whats going in the partition so here are some screengrabs from the partition tool:







see anything suspicious?

Oh and what about just doing a backup of factory using Windows 8 recovery software?

 

Thanks. To me that file list doesn't look normal for a Recovery Data Partition: All those BASW* folders should be in the SystemSoftware folder. And I don't see the factory image (a series of files called init.wcl, init.w01 etc). Maybe I remember wrong about SRS6 (I'm away from my PC now). What is in the img folder?

Yes, of course you can simply forget about Samsung Recovery and simply back up your current Windows as your factory installation. Where the "real" factory installation is handy, is if you need to sell the PC someday; or if you ever need to contact Samsung Warranty for service, they my require a factory restore to prove it's really a hardware problem not just a messed up installation.

I understand your predicament...

 

inside the img folder are a load of files beginning with BASW


edit:

i just had a look at this http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-8/create-usb-recovery-drive where it shows you how to check for (and create) a recovery partition. When I ran the command i got the response that there is no active custom recovery image....

 

To me that Recovery Partition sounds and looks messed up: All those BASW folders should be in the SystemSoftware folder. How did they ever get moved around like this?

You probably know this, but just to make sure: Don't confuse Windows' Recovery Tools (which uses the 499MB Window RE Tools partition at the beginning of the disk) with Samsung Recovery Solution (which uses the SAMSUNG_REC and SAMSUNG_REC2 partitions at the end of the disk). They are completely independent tools.

I personally use a 3rd party imaging tool (Terabyte Unlimited) to backup my Windows partition, and I am afraid I don't have much experience with Windows Recovery Tools. But from what I hear, they work OK.

One other thought: Since Windows System Restore is monitoring your Recovery Partition (which it shouldn't be), you could see if it has a Restore Point -- pick the earliest one possible. It's kind of drastic, and would forfeit any claim you have with Samsung to re-image your drive for free. But if you are not going to pursue that anyway...

 

Ok I am somewhat confused. The way I see it, there are a number of options - 1) Make an image of the disk as it is now, either with samsung recovery or Windows 7 recovery tool - I assume there are no differences between these 2 images. 2) Create a bootable backup with Samsung recovery 3) create a bootable recovery drive with Windows 8 Recovery (which involves copying the recovery partition although im not sure which ones? What are the differences between these methods?

Thanks

 

Samsung Recovery Solution and Windows Recovery are completely unrelated. The former uses the two Samsung Recovery partitions (of which the Data partition with the factory image looks to be messed up). The latter uses its own Windows RE Tools partition.

I believe I heard that Windows 7 Recovery is going away in Win 8.1, so that may not be a very future proof backup.

Creating a bootable backup with SRS or Windows 8 Recovery both sounds like good solutions to me. But again, I use a 3rd party imaging tool for that purpose, so I cannot give you any firsthand experience with those.

Edit:

Check this post which just came in. Sounds like what you need.

 

Hi,

I am kind of having the same issues, but I think I might be responsible for 'breaking' my rec drives. I used PQ Partition Magic I think to recreate and split my drives to create a big data drive. Now I want to install a new SSD drive (512GB) so I want to create the recovery disc/sticks but it looks like the samsung recovery solution is not working anymore. I left all the original rec partitions intact and didn't delete or move any of them but perhaps something is still wrong with it. I used the MiniTool Parition Wizard as you suggested to check the content of these partitions and this is what I see:







Does this data still look correct, and is there something I can do to restore it to the original settings so F4 and/or recovery works again? When I currently press F4 during booting nothing happens and the factory image option is also not available in the samsung recovery program when starting in from windows.

Kind Regards,
Kenzo

 

The partition contents look correct (overall the same as on my X4C).

There should be a way to run the recovery process outside of SRS when SRS has lost the link to the partition (it shouldn't need much intelligence for SRS to find the recovery stuff, even if it got moved slightly but perhaps it's designed the way it is to prevent non-official recovery data from being used).

Unfortunately, I can't help with getting it working.

John

 

@Guoshima: From what you describe, I don't think there is any doubt that Partition Magic caused you to lose the ability to F4 boot Samsung Recovery, by updating the partition table and overwriting the hidden F4 link in the process. Unfortunately, that also prevents the Samsung Recovery Windows app from seeing the factory image.

I wish there was an easy fix, but unfortunately there isn't. The tools you need to fix this all had to be created while your Recovery was still working.

This post lists the various options you can try. I think option (3) has the greatest chance of working.

 

Hi,

thank you for the reply! I am trying to use the EasyBCD option and found out that I can't assign a drive letter to my samsung rec partitions because they don't show up in LIST VOLUME in DISKPART. Interesting. I will try and find out why not, because the other tools clearly show the partition.

Cheers,
Kenzo

 

Thanks for the update. You can use LIST PARTITION instead, you just have to select a disk first (probably SELECT DISK 0). Otherwise maybe Minitool Partition Wizard can add a drive letter (not near my PC at the moment).

 

checked a bit further. I couldn't assign a drive letter to a partition. It reports the following error:
"Please select a volume and try again"

Checked a bit further on the internet and found that people were are to fix these kind of issues using testdisk, so I tried using that one and got the following error messages:





Tried running a deep scan as well (took several hours), but still got the same error message. I will try the Minitool Partition Wizard now, but otherwise no real idea anymore what to do.

I guess I can just put in the new SSD drive and install a clean version of Windows 7 for which I still have an installation disc lying around, and use SWUpdate to retrieve all the drivers.

 

@Guoshima: I know this response is late, and you probably moved on, but just for completeness:

(For others who see this: The procedure we're discussing is the one described here for adding Recovery to the Windows Boot Menu, after having lost F4.)

It is not unusual that the drive letter added to the Recovery partition disappears on the next boot. That's because the partition is still of the Recovery type instead of a regular NTFS partition (ID=27 vs ID=07 in case of NTFS partitions) so Windows cleans out this "invalid" drive letter on next boot.

But at least on my SRS5 system, the Recovery Boot Menu entry added by EasyBCD still works, even after the drive letter has disappeared. The drive letter is only needed when actually adding the Recovery entry, so that EasyBCD can navigate to the \sources\boot.wim WinPE image on the Recovery partition. Once added, the partition is referred to by ID instead of drive letter in the BCD database.

I want to point out (again) that this technique, while verified to work for SRS5, is highly experimental on SRS6, where the Recovery is spread across a FAT32 Recovery Boot Partition and a NTFS Recovery Data Partition. Also, UEFI settings in BIOS may have to be changed in order to allow the Recovery to be booted this way (SecureBoot=disabled, OS Mode Selection=UEFI & CSM OS). Needless to say, you must be running on a GPT disk.

The first thing most people will try is to to boot the Recovery partition directly (by marking it Active/Bootable). Unfortunately that is not gonna work. Just trying to save some time for folks who see this