Just checking - downgrading NP900X3D to Windows 7

Any 'challenges' involved in this? Is it a case of attach DVD, boot off DVD, install and then install drivers (which ones)?

SORRY I MEANT X3 E, the FHD model.

 

From a technical perspective, it should not be an issue. I have installed Windows 7 x64 on both the X3C and X3D. All three have the same chipset and GPU so you should not have an issue.

 

OK, let me break it down here. I'd only really consider buying the E's to supplement / replace my existing W7-installed X3C's and B's if Windows with full Samsung driver support (for instant-on, etc) is a download-and drop-in-after-W7 install.

So in that context, what problems might there be?

I've canvassed all my assistants and there's been a huge thumbs down for W8 (even though I doubt any of them have actually used it much, if at all), and personally though I like W8, I am not going to use a non-touch PC with Windows 8 either.

However, all of us like the Series 9 13" - but some of the B's especially are in bad shape due to being constantly hammered by aforementioned assistants. So what we want is the latest Series 9 but with a full, 'proper' install of W7. So in that context, what are the gotchas?

 

Hello Vogelbung,

As Thor said, I am sure Win7 will run fine on that Series 9 hardware wise. And installing on the Samsungs is generally very easy.

However there IS a gotcha which has surprised a lot of people: Your Win8 PC will be delivered running in UEFI mode (as opposed to the good old BIOS mode) and the disk will be partitioned using GPT layout (as opposed to the good old MBR layout). Although Win7 supports UEFI/GPT there have been many issues on these Samsung PCs, some of them serious.

In order to ensure the safest and easiest experience with Win7, you probably want to disable UEFI in BIOS and convert the disk to MBR. Unfortunately this will lose everything on the disk, including its Recovery. So getting back to the factory delivered Win8 can be difficult in case you run into problems or want to install Win8 down the road. Samsung no longer delivers Windows discs with most models -- or maybe ANY models now.

There are steps you can take to back up that disk before you wipe it (including its Recovery); it's just not as simple as one might think.

If you're going to replace the factory delivered SSD anyway, no problem. Just store the original SSD away until the day when you need it.

There are numerous discussions about this in various threads. The thread linked below is a good place to start. The title says Win8, but once you get to page 2 you will find Win7 info as well.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/sam...all-windows-8-samsung-series-9-laptops-2.html

Let us know how it goes for you.

 

Personally, I considered the gotcha an opportunity.

I did an attempt as using the Samsung recovery backup using the factory Windows 8 image, but in the end I knew I would likely never use it. In fact, the mSATA drive that has the factory image is in a cabinet.

After installing the 256GB Crucial M4 mSATA SSD, I modified the BIOS settings to turn off Secure Boot and UEFI. I formatted the drive using MBR and re-installed Windows 8 Professional using the embedded license key. My NP900X3D-A02US could not be happier and it runs Windows 8 better than Windows 7.

As I have indicated in previous posts, I use Stardocks Start8 to provide a Windows 7 like experience. Very happy. Best $4.99 I've ever spent.

I see no point in running Windows 7 now. Windows 8 is a superset as far as I am concerned.

 

Hmmm.

Thanks very much for the info. I will chew on it. I no longer have in-house IT, and I know the contractors will not touch that kind of job with a barge pole and I'd personally like to avoid rooting around inside machines.

One of my minions would love it but I know he'll screw something up and I try to avoid being tech support for my assistants at all costs - though apart from the keyboard coming apart (and given the fact that they're being attacked with painted claws ~8 hours a day it's understandable) the B's in particular have held up pretty well, so I'd like to stick with the Samsungs going forwards.

The alternative would be functionally equivalent (but heavier) Latitudes or Elitebooks with 7 installed - not as compelling a choice IMO.

Perhaps I should look into forcing everyone into using Start8.

 

I understand exactly what you mean about keeping it support friendly. And yes, even if you your assistant has done much Windows installing in the past, there are still plenty of opportunities to mess this up. My advice would be:

A) EITHER swap out the factory SSD and install Win7 on a new SSD, disabling UEFI and making sure new the disk is MBR. I believe that's what Thor did (although I think he has both Win7 and Win8 on his). Either way, easy to install once you take the UEFI/GPT out of the formula.

B) OR keep the factory SSD with Win8 on it, and use something like Start8. (I personally use IOBit Start Menu 8). I was a much later (and more skeptical) convert than Thor, but I too have come to like Win8. There are still things I hate, but overall there is more to like than dislike -- once you get past the whole Metro/Modern debacle.

Let us know whatever you choose. We can point to some helpful tips for both approaches.

 

I have a Series 7 Ultra running Windows 8 and Start 8 and I too find it to be a Superset, not in any way I have found inferior to running Windows 7. I admit that I don't do any power user things with it, but still I wonder: why downgrade to 7 when you can run 8 exactly like it and still get the benefits of faster boot times and, in my opinion, a few W8 operations that I find smoother and more intuitive than doing the same on W7.

Don't worry Vogelbund, I am prepared for your diatribe suggesting I don't really own a Series 7 Ultra and I am just trying to sound smart.

 

I have a Windows 7 image I created when I first got the machine. It is in the Acronis True Image Home 2013 backup format and I can easily install it for testing from time to time. I did that a few weeks ago to compare power consumption on battery to Windows 8. I restored Windows 8 Pro after those tests.

I could dual boot using boot from VHD or something, but I have no need for Windows 7 at this point. Even the VM on my Mac is Windows 8 Pro.

 

So, just to be clear, would you concur with my post above that there is no reason to downgrade from 8 to 7 and if you miss the traditional start desktop just load one of the many add-ons? Or is there anything else about W8 that makes it inferior to 7 even if you only operate 8 in desktop mode? - eg, driver support - and if so, which ones in particular? If there are driver issues, are they more MS issues or Samsung issues. Thanks. I'm about to turnover my stable of W7 laptops and trying to decide if there is a reason NOT to buy all with W8 pre-loaded.

 

Each person will need to make some sort of informed decision on that. I am sure a deprecated feature list exists somewhere that will tell you if something you can't live without in Windows 7, got dropped in Windows 8.

I've been using Windows 8 Pro since it became available to MSDN subscribers last year so I have many months of experience with the product. I also have a Surface so having a touch device forces you to learn some of the design more fully.

In my case, I place a high value on performance, reliability, virtualization capabilities, etc. What I noticed immediately on the NP900X3D is that the machine boots quicker (even with hibernation off), WIFI reconnects faster, file I/O is better, and all of my apps work. I don't really use Hyper-V on the Samsung, but I do on my other work related Windows 8 machines.

Like many, I was initially put off by being forced into the "modern" desktop experience. Start8 fixed that handily so I can focus on other matters.

The Series 9 machines run both operating systems well. I just prefer/enjoy the fast WIFI reconnects and other improvements so much, I am never going back to Windows 7. I am slowly but surely training friends and family as well.

One of my friends came over yesterday and was just floored how well Windows 8 Pro runs in a VM on my Retina MacBook Pro. I also have Start8 installed in that VM.

My recommendation is to use both for a while and see for yourself. If you are using a machine like a ThinkPad where you can swap the HDD or SSD easily, then keep both environments and swap back and forth. If you find yourself using Windows 8 more, there's probably a reason.

If swapping the storage device is inconvenient, like on the Samsung Series 9, then you should consider dual boot, boot from VHD, or virtualization. The 13.3" Series 9 4GB RAM limit tends to be a problem for virtualization so partitioning or boot from VHD (my personal fav) and running the native hardware is a good approach.

Go into this with a test mindset. Test your apps. Test your cameras and gadgets. Do the crucial test paths first to make sure everything really works BEFORE you make a long term decision and commitment.

Use a good backup and recovery product. Acronis True Image Home 2013 gets my recommendation.

One more thing. Once you install and activate Windows 8, it is married to that machine. If it came with Windows 8, it was married before you got it. I understand divorce isn't possible.

 

Thors,
I appreciate your objectivity as always, but may I be the one to interpret my takeaway from your post?

There is no operating reason to choose W7 in a new machine over W8, especially with the advent of Start8 and its many excellent peers.

True, or did I miss a possible advantage of W7 over W8 in your post?

What truly blows me away is the vast proportion of people who bad-mouth W8 without knowing its virtues (faster boots and wifi reconnects) and the entire absence of compromises - with Start8 or the equivalent. I mean, I googled it in so many ways to see if there were any articles essentially concluding what we have here, and there are truly just about NONE! Every single search result (and most posts on NBR) pan W8 and it's truly beyond my comprehension just because MS put a new U/I that people don't wish to learn.

 

@lovelaptops: My perspective is a little different, if I may share that. Although I do like many aspects of Win8 (mostly under the hood stuff like you mention) I merely tolerate its revamped UI -- I have no appreciation for it.

I use IOBit Start Menu 8 which mimics Win7 Start Menu fairly well and allows me to bypass the Start Screen on startup. But no Start Menu utility can save you from having to flip back and forth between Modern/Metro and Desktop for many tasks, nor from having to learn the Charms menu and some of the secret corner menus (right-click lower-left corner is a gem for those who haven't discovered it).

Try and add a user account (must be done in Metro) then add or change its password (must be done in Desktop unless it's your own). It's just ridiculously un-elegant and not very thought out -- in my opinion. Or try to manage a prioritized list of Wireless Networks: They dropped that feature entirely, you cannot do that in Win8.

Sure, those are mere nuisances and not show-stoppers: Otherwise I wouldn't use it. And they ARE outweighed by the benefits.

If you have a Win8 tablet, that may change your perspective dramatically, because you have a reason to learn the new GUI -- and it makes sense there.

So, just a different perspective. I think it is essential that people try it out and decide for themselves. It's the only way to make a decision. Exactly as Thor said.

 

i just bought an x3e and it was only after installing windows 7 on it that i realized samsung doesnt provide official drivers for that os.
what i ended up doing is manually installing x4d windows 7 drivers.
I got everything to work except the webcam.

 

X3E is same internal hardware as X3C and X3D (the display is the only difference). Use SW Update to manually find the drivers for one of those models.

John

 

there are so many different models, do you happen to have a link to the page that will let you download the drivers individually?

 

Are you running Windows 8, Windows 8 Pro, or Windows 8 Enterprise? Before I respond to our comments, I want to make sure we are running the same SKU.

 

No. Samsung seem to have discontinued updating download pages in favour of using SW Update's database.

However, once you have SW Update installed then you can search for any recent model and download / export the software and drivers.

John

 

Win8 Pro. And once again, I want to stress that overall there is more to like than dislike - otherwise I wouldn't use it.

 

Why not wait for the Windows 8.1 release? That's supposed to resolve some of the major gripes (booting direct to desktop, and a quasi-start button equivalent).

 

I never really see the revamped UI unless I want to. I use the legacy desktop about 97% of the time.

Regarding a couple of the problems you cite, I can add a User without ever seeing Metro. In the screenshot below, you'll notice my configuration for Start8. When I click the Start8 button, I see the typical Windows 7 Start button UI and on it I see the menu item for Computer. I can easily right click it and select the Manage menu item. This launches the Computer Management MMC and allows me to use that UI for all sort of management chores including adding users, changing their properties and passwords, etc. I NEVER see a Metro UI to do that. In fact, I have the computer management console shortcut on my quicklaunch toolbar.

For bulk adds or changes, I use Powershell remoting and never see the UI on the remote machines I need to update.

As for changing my password, CTRL+ALT+DEL gets you there fast. The three finger salute has been around since the beginning of time and I don't see that changing soon.

Regarding the wireless networks, are the machines you are trying to manage in a forest/domain infrastructure and are the networks you are referring to also in the same enterprise? Are you using group policy for this management?

Finally, I really never see the new UI unless I am using the Surface slate I have. On my notebooks, I hardly know it's there. All of the apps I use keep me squarely in the traditional desktop.

 

I don't think I can answer these questions with 100% precision for everyone. It's quite possible someone is using a Windows7 feature today that isn't present in Windows8, or has been changed in such a way that it really irritates someone.

In my case, there isn't a single feature I can think of of that was present in Windows 7, that I miss not having in Windows 8 Pro.

The only operating reason I can think of to buy a machine with Windows 7 is to get the full mix of downgrade/upgrade rights. For instance, Lenovo ships some systems with both. You can flip between the two. If I were buying a machine I would look for that flexibility.

Most of the machines I've purchased recently came with Windows 7 because I was taking advantage of the $15 upgrade to Windows 8. If I can get both at low cost, I will continue to buy that way. That makes it easier for me to resell a machine later because the new owner gets both. I rarely keep personal machines 3+ years unless it is an exceptional machine. By having both operating systems, the new owner can use their preference, not mine.

 

@Thor: I know how you feel about Win8. I was being very careful NOT target or diminish your viewpoint, because this IS very subjective. I merely wanted to share my own perspective.

On the specifics:

1) You're right, you could add a new user in MMC instead of Metro and even add a password. But you cannot change a password or add/change a picture. In Win7 they had ALL of these features conveniently gathered in the User Accounts control panel (see below): Adding/removing users, changing user type, adding/changing passwords, adding/changing pictures; for yourself or other users -- Ctrl-Alt-Del can only change your own password.



I cannot think of a single good reason why Microsoft would reduce that functionality in Win8 and spread it across multiple corners of the GUI. But fact is they did. Of course you can still get the job done in Win8, it's just not as elegant.

2) I was referring to the Manage Wireless Networks control panel in Win7 which lets you prioritize connection to different networks (see below). There is no equivalent in Win8.



Again, these are merely examples, and by no means a complete argument against Win8.

In any case, Thor, are we both saying that Win8 is fine, as long as you use a 3rd party tool to avoid the new UI as much as possible (ideally completely) -- the very UI that Microsoft is doing its darnest to make sure users CANNOT avoid no matter how hard they try.

If anything, what we are both endorsing is our respective 3rd party Start Menus

 

Thanks, good points. Actually, you pretty much had answered my question in the post before the one above. Never say never, but this "W8 sucks, I will never use it; W7 forever!" kind of talk strikes me as simply uninformed and overly influenced by the groupthink among the plurality of opiners on the topic.

 

Regarding number 1), yes you can. I do it all the time with the MMC on local or remote machines. You can also change the user pic for machines in a domain if you are using group policy objects. I do admit this seems like an odd thing to have changed but I guess Microsoft felt users would figure out how to change their own picture in the Windows 8 settings. It isn't THAT hard.

Regarding number 2), what is the problem you are trying to solve? I don't think I've experienced it, and I deal with a number of private, public, and enterprise networks.

 

@Thor: My mistake, you CAN change password in MMC -- but not add/change profile picture or change account type. At least not in my Win8 Pro. I am NOT in a domain, just a standalone PC.

But once again, that wasn't my point at all: Of course there are ways to do this in Win8. It's just not as neatly and elegantly gathered in a single Control Panel like in Win7, for the average guy who wants to set up a PC for his family. I bet 99.9% of users never heard of MMC or GPEDIT, so that doesn't help them.

The Manage Wireless Networks feature in Win7 is a great way to define an order of preference and fallback for available (and unavailable) Wi-Fi networks. If you never used it or had the need, no problem. But if you Google it you'll see it's one of the common complaints about Win8.

I never wanted this to be a lengthy discussion about two particular features. They were merely meant as examples of unnecessary changes in Win8 that makes it less user friendly for the average guy. I just meant to share my perspective: NOT as a Win8 hater, but as a Win8 convert -- who still thinks Microsoft made it needlessly hard for users to adopt Win8.

And that's the last response you'll be getting from me on that. Guaranteed. That means you can have the final word

 

Windows 8.1 will fix everything, and solve world peace.



<As he types this from FireFox on OS X. LOL>