It is official... NP700Z7C-S01US is a lemon

Since the end of January, I or someone I know have been working on this Chronos 7. Symptoms are what many who own this machine have/are see(ing). That being the machine is in a startup loop which starts, displays the Samsung logo, then restarts. No key presses of any kind work. I have read and followed many threads on this fine site, but still no love.

What I have done so far is to remove the HDD and the RAM. Removed the BIOS battery. Used a Rufus created USB drive in the USB2 and USB3 ports with no luck. Used a DVD with Win8 OS and no luck. Used my HDD as a USB drive with no luck. I just cannot access BIOS.

Unless someone has a suggestion I believe I will either send it to a PC repair place in NY who will try and fix it, or sell it for parts on eBay. I really wish Samsung cared, but they don't. They are too big to care about us little people.

 

More than likely the bios nvram got corrupted. This mean a bios emergency recovery MAY help. You need a usb fat drive with the bios in rom format and the keyboard startup combo. Research the emergency bios recovery procedures for further info.

 

TANWare, thanks for that information. That is something new and got my hopes up. However, I researched and found old information that did not work. I tried the Fn+B and Win+B keys and nothing changed. Even though I did not have the USB with the BIOS on it, at least the machine should have done something but it just continued with its boot loop.

I contacted Samsung and they said they will fix it for bucks. They have a faulty design and want me to pay more money. I already paid over a grand for this POS and now they want me to pay more. Oh well...

Plan B is now to send it to NY and see if that repair shop and fix it. Hope so.

Plan C is eBay for parts.

 

This might be relevant: http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...clean-windows-install-and-uefi-access.769914/

 

Namaiki, that is the thread that I have been following. I had the machine completely stripped down with every disconnected that could be disconnected. Tried the Flash Drive in all the USB ports, even tried the HDD as a USB drive in one of the USB ports and nothing changed. I even disconnected both batteries and it still did the exact same thing: boot loop.

Without a doubt, I believe the BIOS needs to be replaced with a new one.

 

If you do not have the proper USB formatted stick and bios file it will change nothing and you will still go through the loop. The Emergency bios recovery procedure is a blind bios flash procedure so you will see nothing but if the files are all correct you may hear a beep. This procedure is meant to work even if the video bios is toast, that is why it is a blind flash. Again research it out and understand it fully before attempting it as it literally is the last ditch effort to recover a system as it easily can brick it as well.

 

One little thing I noticed which seems a bit unclear in your first post (not for the blind flash, but for trying to boot), is that you should be trying to boot without the internal HDD attached. You also definitely need the RAM installed, though I think there is also some built in RAM so that might not matter.

 

Personally I have no experience with the blind flash on these with the Samsung's, but I have heard the HDD(s) must be removed for the procedure to take effect. This again is a peculiarity of these systems and their UEFI bios. The ram I believe is still needed to boot.

If I had my own personal system dead I would do this in a heart beat. I have done so on at least two other occasions well in the past. Just remember you have to be extra careful not to brick it, then again what is it now?

 

This machine is beyond brick, it is more like a lead balloon. LOL

OK, disconnected the HDD. Disconnected the battery. Made the USB flash per instructions for Emergency BIOS Recovery.

Held down Fn+B, plugged in AC power, pressed PWR button. Nothing! No indication from the USB that it is trying to be accessed.

Unplugged AC power.

Held down Win+B, plugged in AC power, pressed PWR button. Nothing! No indication from the USB that it is trying to be accessed.

Got curious. If I press down any key on the machine and insert the power, the power button seems to be disabled until that (any key) is released. If then I hold down any key and press the PWR button, the machine will start in the boot loop mode.

So... this procedure does not work.

Now I know that someone is going to say that it does work and it is all my fault. Fine, I can live with that, if in fact that person has done this procedure to a NP700Z7C S01US machine and speaks from experience. If so, I would like to know how they did it, other than reading instructions that are 6 years old with links that are no longer valid and requiring a USB Floppy Disk Drive.

As it stands, the Emergency BIOS Recovery process on a Samsung NP700Z7C S01US does not work. I believe Samsung may haveblocked/turned off this key combo.

I am still open to suggestions before I button this thing up and send it to NY and see if they can do something.

However, I do want to say thanks for the suggestions. They were worth a try. I even thought about how to reboot my Samsung Tablet and tried those key combinations and it did not work. Oh well.

 

The USB stick was fat32 format? and the rom file was obtained from?

Also key combo's can be different per machine;

<ctrl> & <Home> as powered on seems to be the popular combo but it could be another unique combo.

edit; As a side note what appears to happen is there is a dual mode bios here. What I think is with the GPT (or even NTFS) drives is the system is from the get go forced to UEFI and this has no emergency bios recovery procedure. By having no drives, and a fat32 usb stick, you are forcing the old compatibility mode and this still has that code for the recovery. Now this is what I think is what happens, I could easily be wrong too.

Edit 2; From experience I should also note that just say a <ctrtl> and/or <Home> etc. could be a specific one as well. Meaning if you have two then try each once as sometimes the keys are specifically driven. I know this just makes it more complex but it usually is meant to be that way to prevent accidental activation.

 

The USB was indeed FAT32 format.

The ROM file... well, that seems to be contentious to begin with. Samsung's BIOS files are very strange. They do not fit the 1024 or 2048 files size and that are none named .rom. I would think the actual file would be either PO3ASB.CAB or SBIOS32.SYS or SBIOS64.SYS. But for the purpose of trying the procedure, I left the BOIS.WPH as it was. So if I were to guess, I would take the PO3ASB.CAP and make it PO3ASB.WPH. But I am not sure.

As for key combo, I also tried CTRL+HOME and had the same result. All this appears to be moot, just because is the fact that any key that is pressed will not allow power to be applied. So the procedures fail at that point. The AC Power must be applied and the power button pressed in order for the machine to do anything.

I guess I can try NTFS, or have two USB flash drives connected to the two USB2 ports, each with a different partition format; FAT32 (EFI/GPT) and NTFS.

added: Some more reading lead me to Real Time Clock Reset. I found on the MoBo next to the memory modules a name RTCR. Next to the letter are three solder pads. Two are close together and the other is a little bit aways. I use a small screwdriver and pressed on the two closer pads. There was no change.

 

Maybe try again to boot the Windows 8 DVD with the HDD disconnected.

note:

Does any of that apply at all?


Or even better, the following post: http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...00z5c-s03ca-my-last-hope.762595/#post-9793018

That one isn't a blind flash. It sounds like you haven't tried this specific procedure above.

 

Yeah, already tried that, WinPE USB stick. I was hoping that it would work. With the HDD disconnected I was expecting to see an error saying there was no operating system. But that never happened. So I believe the Boot Block of the BIOS is also gone. Can't believe that.

Anyway, I will try again with a DVD. I do not have an "official" DVD. Just a few that I have burned myself. I looked around to see if there was a way to burn a UEFI DVD but I couldn't fine anything. So I wonder if there really is a UEFI DVD format.

One more thing, I notice that when I try with a DVD I get more activity, lots of head movement, like it really wants to boot from the DVD, then it stops. So I really wonder if I had an official DVD it might actually start.

 

Did you try download the ISO for your USB stick using the "Windows Installation Media Creation Tool" for your USB stick?

 

No, that is on the PC that is not working. Although I do have all the files from the HDD, maybe I can make one... Hmmm have to think about that one.

Anyway, about the DVD. I have several "tools" that I used to "get into" computers and none of them would boot the machine. However, I am able to eject the DVD from the machine, so that means a portion of the BIOS is working. I have the Samsung splash screen and the drive is seeking, I guess, a boot sector, But fails. I eject the DVD and try another one. So I think I can lick this problem.

 

You have to extract the rom file, again not too familiar because I had not tried it. With the proper rom file on a fat32 usb stick the emergency bios recovery should work. the hdds must be removed but I believe an empty media optical drive should pose no issue. Since the iSSD is not a bootable device there should be no issue as well.

Again you will have to refer to someone who has pulled these rom files for further advice on that. As I said much earlier Samsung should offer up these files to those who want them. My guess is they want that repair money and offering the rom files could severely cut into that.

 

Samsung's BIOS files are available and I have all three versions for this machine. However, the files are in .CAB and not .ROM or .WHP format. I have searched to see if there was software to convert the .CAB to .WHP that is required. I am still searching.

When I start the machine, the USB Flash Drive flashes a few times and then the machine reboots. So I am wondering if the Boot Block of the BIOS is shot. If that is so, I am sure not even WINCRIS will be able to fix that. I have also tried both 4GB and 2GB flash drives with NTFS, FAT, and FAT32/GPT formats and the results were the same.

This morning I tried to find some technical specs on how BOIS works and where the failure might be occurring. Like I said above, I think the BIOS is partially working because it passes device tests, seeks with the DVD, and can eject the DVD, but it will not boot from any of those devices.

 

Just taking a peek here from vacationland. My little nieces who are visiting from overseas have been keeping us on our toes, but they are currently napping

Thanks a lot, TANWare and namaiki for helping out!

@Brian D did you see member @urkopineda's post here (towards the end of that same NVRAM clearing thread)? He outlines how he converted the CAP file to ROM format, put it on a USB stick, and successfully performed a blind flash by pressing Ctrl-Home when powering on.

I know you tried a ton of things already, but I wanted to make sure you had seen that one.

Beyond that there is the (E)EPROM flashing route. A (very) few members have reported successes with that, such as @2000br in this post.

It is rare to find members who have successfully completed the exact same rescue on the exact same model (as you mentioned a few posts back) -- and few feel an urge to experiment with these things on working laptops The best we can do is encourage members to share their results, then gather and refer to useful information.

 

Hi Dannemand. I have been receiving great support in my cause to get this lemon back to life. I remember there was a post about .ROM file conversion but I could not find it. You must have a xerox memory because that was the post I was looking for.

I downloaded the AFUDOS but it is not compatible with x64 systems. So not I will play (carefully) with AUFWIN and see if it will do what AFUDOS does.

@urkopineda did not give much information on HOW he did what he did, just that he did it. So it will be a painful process trying to replicate his procedures. I am sure once the file has been converted, the rest will be a wait and see what happens. So far, as you can see, nothing has worked and I am ready to send it off. But not to Samsung. They do not deserve a single penny from me. Not any more.

I will let you know how it goes. Thanks

Update: I figured out how to do the conversion however, I believe his PC is using an AMI Bios and not a Phoenix. So I figured I would check to see if Phoenix had a like tool. Sure do, but is not compatible on x64 machines. Found their WINPHLASER and ran it, but it would not convert the P03ASB.CAB to P03ASB.ROM. On top of that, I believe Phoenix uses .WHP, but in their WINCRIS software, the file needs to be named BIOS.WHP. Too much confusion. Still working on it.

@urkopineda

 

Also if you have a hybrid of USB3 and USB2 slots be sure to use the USB 2.0 slots for the stick. You are correct they do not deserve a dime more, they should be out there helping their consumers. Just a sad situation.

 

TANWare, I have been using the USB2 slot. I am beginning to think that Samsung is an Apple wanttabe. LOL They have so much control of this machine. i can't even find the BIOS chip. By the way, do you know what RTCR stands for? It is on the MoBo next to the ram.

 

Best guess Real Time Clock something?

 

I suspect it is RealTimeClockReset. I measured 2.9vdc on two small solder pads when the machine is turned off. Turning on the machine it read 3.2vdc. When off, removing the batter I read about 1vdc residual. Shorting the pads resulted in 0vdc. So I guess it is a reset of some type.

 

If just pads it may be a component too. Such as a RealTimeClockRegister or (resistor). So many possabilities.........

 

Does anyone know if this motherboard has SSD or mSATA SSD on board, and if so, would it prevent the BIOS from allowing the boot process to continue?

 

The info here says that the NP700Z7C has ExpressCache which is on on-board SSD that is not a bootable device.

The ExpressCache has caused people (both users and Samsung) quite a few headaches. There's some discussion here.

John

 

Thanks, John.

 

An update.

So nothing worked. No matter what I tried, there was no way this computer would boot, even though it seemed that part of the BIOS appeared to be working.

I have packed up the computer and sent it to NYC to a shop that repairs mother boards. I described the problem and hopefully they can fix it. It seems rather draconian for Samsung to just replace an expensive mother board if there is a solution to the problem by replacing a few chips. I cannot see the entire mother board being bad.

When I get the computer back I will post again the results of the repair work.

Thanks again to everyone who chimed in on what to try. And if it comes back repaired, my next quest will be to reload Win8 but not as a UEFI partition (if it is possible). I would hate to have to send this machine back for fixing every 6 months.

 

I recall that someone else in this forum recently managed to get their Samsung notebook resurrected by having the BIOS chip replaced. I look forward to you reporting better news.

You can have Windows 8 without UEFI. It may not be as secure but I suspect the extra security of UEFI could be one of the underlying causes of the bricking. Samsung's attempt at UEFI in the Ivy Bridge notebooks is buggy. They found that the (unused) UEFI implementation in the Windows 7 Ivy Bridge models to be so poor that the Windows 8 versions of the same notebooks had a completely different BIOS (at least for the Series 9) and the two aren't interchangeable.

John

 

John, I should know in about a fortnight. You guys will be the first to know if it was a success or I have a very expensive boat anchor.

 

Expensive, but not very good for that function because it isn't heavy enough. Anyway, we hope that you don't need to test it in that function.

John

 

Hi again, Brian.

Based on everything you have described, it sounds as if the machine is mechanically and otherwise intact. I think there is a good chance that replacing the BIOS chip or re-flashing it with an EPROM writer (which I presume is what that repair center will do) can get it working again. Fingers crossed!

And yes, you can disable UEFI and re-install Windows in CSM/Legacy BIOS mode. As you know, it will require wiping the disk and converting it to MBR.

Installing from DVD is still highly recommended to avoid the ExpressCache iSSD boot issue caused when installing from USB, described in this thread. Post #40 has an install guide containing GPT/MBR conversion steps as well.

In fact, it is quite possible that that very iSSD issue, when applied to an UEFI machine, is what made it impossible to boot an external device in your case, because UEFI insists on trying to find an EFI partition on the iSSD even though it isn't visible during boot. We have had some reports of that occurring, where even disconnecting the HDD didn't crack it. It is in the thread linked below, if I remember correctly.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...when-function-buttons-are-not-showing.755985/

 

John Ratsey, Dannemand, you gentlemen are stand-up guys. Thanks!

 

I'm wondering whether you should try to get the repair center to check the iSSD. Could it be in a state of semi-death that is causing the problems? Unfortunately, Samsung failed to provide a switch in the BIOS to disable it (which would have also helped avoid problem when installing Windows).

John

 

Here is an update on the status of my machine.

The repair center (non-Samsung) states that yes, there is an issue with the BIOS. When I asked about just updating the BIOS firmware, the repair center said that was not the solution. They stated that the firmware file available from Samsung will not fix the issue. They are saying that they need another machine of same make and model as mine so they can extract the BIOS files and load them into my BIOS. I do not understand this. Is this making sense? Is this even possible?

At this point I still do not have a resolution. I will let them hang onto the machine for a while longer before I throw in the towel and consider this a lesson learned.

 

Hi Brian, thank you for the update.

I think they just don't know how Samsung does things or how to get the exact BIOS for your model. Even if they get it to boot Windows Setup from an external device, they may also not be aware of the ExpressCache iSSD issue on these models, and think that there is still a BIOS problem.

I could understand if a general repair center doesn't have detailed knowledge of all the little quirks of all vendors and their different models.

You could download and extract the correct BIOS yourself (using isosunrise's rollback guide) and provide it to them on a USB stick. Others have been able to revive hard bricked units by flashing that with an (E)EPROM burner.

And then tell them they need to install Windows from an UEFI compatible Win8.x Setup disc, not from a USB stick.

 

Thanks Dannemand. I believe they are in the mindset that they know and we don't. This is there business so I can understand that. I don't really need them to load windows. I have the harddrive. I just need them to get the BIOS to accept access with pressing F2.

There is a company that sells BIOS chips preprogramed. I wonder if I send them one and have them remove the old chip and install the new if that would be a better solution.

Thoughts?

 

You are right, I can understand that viewpoint too. I figure you were going to install Windows yourself. But I also imagine they will try testing a Windows Setup to verify that the BIOS is working after the flash -- and they might think something is still wrong when it won't boot after running Windows Setup. I don't know ANYBODY, no matter how experienced, who didn't fall into that trap when first installing on ExpressCache models.

Still, if you tell them that you don't have an exact equal unit for them to compare and extract from, and you provide them the correct BIOS files AND give them the tip about only to install Windows from DVD on his model...

 

I think what they want is a working machine that the data from the nVram can then be inserted into your machine. In other words the bios itself is not corrupt but the tables that have been stored and are being read. This again falls to the crisis bios recovery where all that normally gets wiped.

On that note have they indicated getting the system to get any further than yourself?

 

I am sure that is true. But remember, we're finding that clearing NVRAM with WinFlash or SFlash solves these problems as discussed in this thread (on machines that can boot an OS of course). I was worried about this approach at first, because we don't know which values to write subsequent to clearing. But several users have now reported that simply clearing it was enough to get everything back to normal. Apparently BIOS rebuilds NVRAM values after detecting it has been cleared.

Hence I would think the repair center should be able to do the same, without having to clone NVRAM from another unit.

 

But the caveat is that one has to get at least to some sort or prompt, be it DOS, or Linux, or whatever. If one cannot get to a prompt then one cannot launch any application to clear NVRAM. That is the problem. Had I been able to do that I think we would not be this far into the discussion.

No doubt that process works, but right now, we cannot access anything. This is really where I am lacking understanding.

 

Understood, I am aware of that. TANWare pointed out that it is probably NVRAM and not the BIOS itself that's corrupted, and that is why the repair store wants another unit from which to clone NVRAM values. And I agree.

My point was that if a generic NVRAM clearing using WinFlash or SFlash solves the problem without subsequently writing model-specific values to NVRAM -- as we have seen from several reports -- I think it is feasible that the repair store can do the same, without having to clone NVRAM from another unit.

If you search the Samsung forum for EPROM or EEPROM you will find reports from users with completely bricked units who revived them merely by reflashing the correct BIOS to the chip. I am guessing the BIOS detects that it has been reflashed and rewrites NVRAM with clean values -- correct for that model.

 

My apologies for misunderstanding.

One more question regarding the NVRAM. Is possible to get cloned NVRAM files from knowledgeable users who have the same machines?

 

Old way of doing it was nvram was on the southbridge. In this way the cmos battery would hold the values. I am not too sure with modern systems, especially Samsung, if they did the same or where it is located. It could be part of the new bios chips themselves, in which case and eeprom cloning may do the trick. Pure speculation but it could be too that they stole some of the iSSD memory and that would be a very, very, bad thing.

The Crysis Bios recovery is supposed to clear nVram, that is part of the program included in bios. If your nvram is that corrupted not allowing this then eeprom forced flash may be the only hope.

A side note is if the crisis recovery is working you will not see anything on screen when it boots. It goes right to the usb drive and does its thing. This is what I don't understand about the problem, you say the logo comes up before it goes into it loop. The bios cyrsis recovery, if it is there, should not allow the logo display (Why it is called a blind flash). About the only thing that may happen is bios beeps along with seeing the drive accessed.

 

That was the issue, TANWare, I believe the USB was never recognized other than a flash of LED indicating it was accessed but was apparently not read.

 

Brian, whats the update on this? I have the same exact issue with my laptop. Did you get the laptop fixed? What is the service center in NYC? and what is the cost?

 

Joot, they still have the PC. I told them to keep it in the event they get lucky. I paid too much for that machine to just let it go.

Here is a link to the place I sent the machine.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Samsung-NP7...237?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d0f1cfac5

 

Brian, thanks for the link. I bought mine from Best Buy for lots of $ too. My model is NP700Z5C-S01UB. Unlike other models, this model is made specifically for Best Buy and it has no old or newer bios update. I cant even do the bios rollback. Boot loop exactly like yours.

 

Yours too was a Windows 7 or 8 machine. It does not seem to have the bios update a lot machines were given for Windows 8.1. I am not sure if this is a good or bad thing.

 

Mine too was a Best Buy purchase.