Am I crazy to buy an Ativ 9 Plus if Samsung is exiting laptop market?

Hi,

Let me start with the punchline: does it make sense to invest over $1,000 on a Samsung Ativ 9 Plus when by all indications Samsung is about to exit the laptop business and what little support it ever provided is likely to drop to zero? I have had the experience of owning several "orphaned" laptops in the past (Sony, HP) and it doesn't feel very good to find your significant investment has instantly lost a good bit of future utility and a great deal of its resale value. That said, due to a bit of personal tech savvy and a great deal of help from NBR buds, I've had great functional experience with these models, but lost a lot of $ when I went to sell them in 1-2 yrs, my usual cycle.

I want to acquire a very current, fairly high spec Ultrabook (Haswell i5/7, 8GB, 256GB, FHD+ IPS touchscreen, decent audio, reasonably comfortable keyboard - for a UB - 5-7 hr batt life with wifi and bluetooth on, many, many open tabs, a few open programs). I am willing to spend up to $1,500 but would be much happier closer to $1,200. Of all the models I have demoed, owned and researched, the Samsung Ativ 9 Plus would be my first choice. I have just purchased an "open box" unit (pristine box and packing, clearly never used, full wtty) for $1,175 (Yes - with specs listed above! With new ones selling for $1,699 or more!) from a clearance dealer I know and trust well. I have barely touched the unit except to turn it on and see that it clearly runs as new, which it does. I have 30 days to return it and, if I decide to do that, I will first offer it here to any who consider it a great bargain.

I am not a power user and this model is, if anything, vastly more powerful than I need. For this unit it will be nothing more taxing than MS Office, lots of Web browsing (many, many open windows!), video playback and a lot of writing and blog posting. Still, I am spoiled and like to own very high quality, high style, premium screen/video, luxury feeling laptops. The 9 Plus fits the bill better for me than competing models such as Dell XPS 13, Acer S7, HP Spectre 13T (just sold) and certainly anything Apple.

What do you recommend? How burned do you all feel upon learning your $1,500+ investment won't have new drivers or certain replacement parts in a year or two? What would you buy if you were in my shoes - assume I had not found this deal? Is the $500 savings I got enough to compensate for the lack of mfr support? I'm posting this here instead of in WNPCSIB because I want the perspective of Samsung 9 devotees.

Many thanks,
Jeff Bellin

 

Samsung's software / driver support has always had considerable potential for improvement so, unless there's something seriously wrong that never gets fixed, there won't be much change in that respect. The Book 9+ has been in production for nearly a year and Samsung appear to have got it fairly well debugged so you would have fewer worries in that respect. So far, people aren't complaining about their batteries dying prematurely. And batteries is one area where the 3rd party supplies will appear. Other spare parts may be a bigger problem although there are people who make a living from dismantling dead notebooks and selling the parts.

I would take the view that if the notebook ticks the right boxes and and be bought at a very attractive price then it's worth buying. The lower price now compensates for possible lower resale value in the future.

Alternatively, you can try a more analytical approach: List all the features that you want of a notebook then score the possible contenders for each of these features. I've done that in the past. The process also highlights the absence of desired features. Yet another way to help your decision making is to consider the potential buyer's remorse. What is the risk, if you get different notebook, of wanting to get rid of it within a few months because it isn't quite good enough?

I've been doing a lot of thinking about my future notebook: If the UK version of the NP930X5J ever shows up then I would probably grab it in spite of the shiny "non glare" display. If it doesn't appear then I'm reluctant to get one with a non UK keyboard because my fingers will be confused. In which case I'll have to hope my NP900X4C will keep going until some manufacturer produces a suitable replacement. If Dell could squeeze a 15" screen into the Latitude E7440 then it would be a possible contender but they would also need to make a PSU that is suitably travel-friendly.

John

 

Thanks John. I knew you would have sage advice I've done the exercise you suggested - I usually make my purchases either very analytically or entirely impulsively; guess which ones I tend to stick with? Without boring you all about all of my criteria and how the 9Plus stacks up next to what I consider the main competitors, here's a synopsis: Dell XPS 13 (no SD slot, buzzy keyboard), Acer S7-392 (just not a white computer kind of guy!) HP Spectre 13T (had one, loved it, just sold it: also orphaned - discontinued after 6 months on market: all 4-5 star reviews, vault-like build with classy design, no deal breakers - why, oh why do you constantly do this, HP?!) Asus UX301LA - definitely the best UB on the market, don't need the extra power, but battery life still ok and no overheating apparently. But Asus quality control has been and remains abysmal! Sonys: some interesting - if flawed - models but, you guessed it, all discontinued and brand sold off to investor group with no indication of future plans. Toshiba Kirabook: meh. Lenovo Yoga - never thrilled me, doesn't feel like a high quality of-a-piece product; major plus: will likely be supported indefinitely, clearly a model that will live on. On the other hand, this and all Lenovos, even (maybe especially) Thinkpads suffer from poor quality and race to the cellar of customer support.

Conclusion: Head says XPS 13; Heart says S9 Plus! I've always been a sucker for a looker

Do PM me if you would be interested in my top spec open-box untouched Ativ 9 Plus ($1,175 my cost - no more left). If, before 30 days is out, I decide to let my head rule, I'll be sending it back. While I'm confident the prices of the 9 Plus will be falling soon, we're talking $500-$600 off current market. I'm not trying to sell you - either I give it back for refund or sell it to a forum buddy at cost. Also, don't get too excited because my gut says I will be keeping it.

PS: Other comments (re: my OP) welcomed.

 

Have you tried the keyboard of the XPS 13 or are you relying on reviewer's comments?

The keyboard mechanics of any thin notebook tend to be a compromise because the thickness won't allow the longer travel keys that fatter notebooks usually have. I've long got used to the keyboard of my NP900X4C and don't get annoyed by the space bar making a distinctive ding. A reviewer, however, may be very critical of an ultrabook keyboard if comparing it to a non-ultrabook.

Layout is the aspect of keyboards where I like continuity. It takes a lot longer to get used to keys being in different places than needing to slightly adjust one's typing action.

And, while having a built-in SD card reader is an advantage, USB card readers are cheap and easy to use. Lack of an SD card slot would only be an issue if you wanted to use minidrive to supplement the internal storage.

John

 

I have used an XPS 13 for 30 days and did find that electrical "whine" to be more than I wanted to live with - given the options, notably AB9+, that present no comparable audio annoyances. (In fact, that clacky space bar is also a thing of the past, the whole keyboard has been reworked. The AB9+ is a wonderful example of a nearly ideal design with thoughtful, responsive evolutionary changes over the past two iterations. Its keyboard is so beautifully wrought that I don't mind the 0.25" (or so it feels!) key travel limit. Making a study of keyboard ergonomics over the past 2-3 yrs I've come to realize there are a number of very subtle critical elements a prolific typist notices over a month that wouldn't even occur to one to take note of even over a couple of busy days with a single machine. To wit: I am far happier (as are my wrists and elbows) with an extremely short stroke, such as the AB9+ when the key action is as close to 100% uniform as my hands and fingers can perceive than with, say, the more generous travel of the XPS 13's lovely keyboard that, nonetheless, does not space the keys so perfectly uniformly that I can truly type with my eyes closed and not only have perfect accuracy but also the really nice feeling of an extremely well made mechanical device in which each key press feels identical to all others, exact same amount of pressure gets contact point.

But I do drivel! I have a far more irritating problem than this whole Samsung vs. "committed" mfr issue.

It turns out that my "open box" computer has a blocked system key. MS records show that the same key was used 11 times prior to May 1 (this is not nec unusual they said, as OEMs get bulk keys that can be reused on many machines.) But until I can reach Blinq.com on Monday I don't know what solution they will provide. As you may know, having an activated OS is not particularly important and there are few, if any, things you can't do without being "activated." the single biggest downside is the constant popups reminding me my system is not activated. It's not something I will accept as is, and I am hoping that it will be easily rectified Monday. Ironically, this open box unit (which truly had nary a finger print on the sealed wrapping of all packed parts, including the computer itself!) was from the Microsoft Store! It has the "Signature Support" pamphlet with the special support # and description of the no-bloatware set up. Don't know that this helps/or hurts, but it is interesting and, at a minimum, Blinq may have some pull with MS if they buy most of their open box returns.

Sorry for rambling on so. Any thoughts about the blocked activation issue?

Thanks,
Jeff Bellin

 

The Book 9+ should have a Samsung OEM Windows 8 key coded into the BIOS. There are utilities that will find this for you.

Someone else here had a problem with a Microsoft Signature installation (it might have been on the NP900X3G) where they had totally messed up the installation. I wouldn't discount the possibility that they loaded a number of machines with an image that used the same key rather than used the Samsung key in the BIOS.

If you can find the Samsung key and tell Windows to use it then you might be able to jump the activation hurdle.

John

 

John,

It's pretty much impossible to find an accolade suitable to give you (again, and again, and again!) for your incredible font of knowledge and generosity with your time to share and help fellow members. I just wanted to say that without even reporting on the result of your information and my continued research. This is is purely a "homage to the wonderful John Ratsey: Where would we be without you?!!:thumbsup::hi2::hi2::hi2::hi2::hi2:

Taking care of this problem couldn't have been easier - all it took was knowing what was "wrong" and how to "fix" it. Turns out, MS had bundled some fairly large quantities of "Signature" configuration systems for their retail sales and, at a certain point in the transition from W8 to 8.1 apparently found themselves with a surplus of systems loaded with W8 and found the "easiest" (read: cheapest!) way to sell them as having 8.1 was to essentially force the new owner, upon setting things up, to immediately: 1) perform the - 100+ - Windows Updates needed by that time and then, 2) perform the "upgrade" to 8.1 via the Windows Store. Step 1 took about 35 minutes start to finish and step 2 maybe 45 mins (what read as a "download" of W8.1 that took forever, turns out to have been a download followed by an install, the total of which occupied the 45 mins, but it seemed longer because you thought you were just waiting for the download to complete, then have some kind of a lengthy installation/upgrade process but actually that was all going on in background and once the progress bar showed the "download" as completed, it then rebooted itself and declared itself ready for first use!

So what we had was 2 fairly standard operations - catching up with Windows Updates and Updating the version of Windows (in days of yore we might have called it a "service pack" upgrade!) which took well over an hour to complete before the new owner really should have been doing anything else with the new AB9+ - but NONE of the documentation indicated this was a necessary precondition to using your new machine (ok, most of us know to do the updates and update software and drivers, but neither will typically interfere with your ability to start to use and customize your brandy-new shiny computer! And of course, without having experienced this previously, the whole " cd key activation thing, and MS's own phone techs' inability to make sense out of it, just further leaves you feeling something is wrong, though how wrong and how easily fixed remains a mystery until you reach your island of sanity! One of the reasons I like to purchase electronics from higher quality e-tailers is because I'm likely to get problems resolved more quickly and easily than when you purchase from stores with lower quantity and quality of after-sale support resources. This was really MS's screw up - pre loading way too many systems with an OS version that was soon to become obsolete and for which there were few means of upgrading the OS without highly labor intensive processes that warehouses were just not set up to perform. Turn out that a good solution was to dump them at low prices with better quality eBay-type clearance/open box resellers. What separates the wheat from the chaff among these resellers are the ones who tell you to call Samsung and duke it out - "or RMA it back to us if you prefer" - vs. the ones who have the support chops - and desire to build a reputable reseller brand - who will walk you though the process and make it seem comparatively painless.

I was fortunate enough to have purchased from the latter type of clearance reseller, Blinq.com, the truly wonderful reseller of clearance, "open box," and manufacturer refurbished computers and electronics. This is my 8th purchase from them in 3 years and it's, well, 8-for-8 in terms of positive experiences with Blinq.com and even 7-for-8 in terms of positive product experiences. Because Blinq has such liberal and accommodating return policies there is virtually no risk in the transaction even if the product is a dud. Though I may sound like I'm touting this reseller as if I have an economic interest in them - I don't! - it is more a service to members that I make folks aware of this hit-or-miss but often great source of phenomenal bargains and always a pleasure to deal with. (Sorry, this is a US-only operation as of now ) There are very few of these kinds of dealers that have such great deals on such current model high-demand items and with retrurn/refund and customer support policies and staff that you feel more like you are dealing with at least an Amazon-caliber retailer, certainly not one selling an un-touched $1,799 (today's price at Amazon or Microsoft Store) Ativ 9 Plus i7-4500U, 8GB, 256GB for $1,097 with a full original new customer wtty as well as 30 days to just throw everything back at the reseller's face if, for any reason or no stated reason, you simply want to say: "thanks, but no thanks!"

So, as I seem unable to control, once again I've written a novella to explain how I resolved the dilemma which, had I not been so fortunate with the retailer, would have been almost as easy to resolve due to the encyclopedic knowledge and database of a true NBR "hero," John Ratsey!

And, not for nothing, but the main dilemma I posed in starting this thread - does it make sense to purchase a costly Samsung AB9+ when it seems likely that the manufacturer's already poor retail system support record may sink to the level of a former manufacturer if rumors hold true? Well, it turns out this was the right question to ask and the right time and place to pose it. My experience in total convinced me of the following:

1) The product truly is as lovely as any in its market segment and, arguably, is the very best among its peers. I've come to this tentative conclusion sooner than I normally would after 3 days because, having owned or demoed most of the competition and now having spent 3 very intimate days to put it through its paces while I worked to resolve the "activation" difficulty

2) Having made only one call to Samsung (for this device) thus far I am reminded of just how poor their phone support is (though I may have an "ace in the hole" in the form of a non-published phone number for true second level tech support after a painful series of attempts to deal with a problem with my Note 8 tablet.) Still, must treat this as a product that will prove a good purchase decision based largely upon its initial design and manufacturing quality, not on any post-sale support.

3) Through this brief experience I am reminded that most of my really valuable support for the dozen or so computers I've purchased in the past 5 years has come not from manufacturers but from the awesome community of friends and helpers I've gained through the course of some 3,000 posts on NBR and countless experiences of amazingly helpful people who have been there to help me through the challenges I could not resolve on my own. I would like to think that to some, I have been the "savior" in times of need, but I have to say that, for anyone who owns or contemplates owning a Samsung notebook computer, one cannot have a greater sense of confidence that the thornier the problem, the more likely John Ratsey is to spring into action and make you feel really lucky you a) purchased a Samsung computer and, b) chose to invest your time and participation in the NBR community, the only way I am aware of to reach this very gifted and generous man. Kudos and thank you John! Here, here!!

 

I enjoyed reading your novella. I interpret your conclusion as meaning that you'll probably keep the computer since the manufacturer's support, if discontinued, won't be noticeably worse than it is now.

BTW, I recently had fun with updating Windows 8. I recently bought a refurb Acer Windows tablet and set about updating it before trying to use it (I know to do that). Windows 8.1 was offered in the Microsoft Store but wouldn't download until Windows 8 was updated. There was 100+ updates so I left Windows to get on with the work. A few hours later it installed the updates then decided that something didn't install and rolled back everything (which took a few more hours). So I set about installing the updates in smaller groups, some of which were successful and some were not, but eventually something got updated which threw the switch for the Windows 8.1 installer to run. That took a few more hours but installed OK.

I'm actually quite happy with that tablet which was excellent value at the price. Some reviews had criticised the display quality but mine is good. Connect a keyboard, mouse and an external display and one has a desktop computer running Windows. As a standalone tablet it's not as usable or lightweight as Android (my latest is an LG Pad 8.3) but there are times when one needs Windows.

John

 

Sounds like you got a great "find," John. Amazing how difficult it can be to complete what should be a fully automated process of updating and upgrading. Imagine what the "average" consumer has to go through to simply setup a standard consume product! At least my install was 100% foolproof, once I received the incredibly easy "directions!"

As for me, yes, I did conclude that there is no more risk to buying a Samsung laptop today, when I know that they may be ending their participation in the business. But, with your characteristic modesty, you neglected to acknowledge that my conclusion was based heavily on your availability to provide the support the manufacturer never really has! :hi2:

Btw, the more I use the AB9+ the more I like it, but with one regrettable exception: the keyboard. It's no different than expected, nor than virtually every other short-stroke UB keyboard, but somehow I find I'm getting worse, not better, at accuracy. I keep missing keys an especially space bar, at an increasing rate the more I use it! As I think I mentioned in my OP, my heart has been urging me to get the AB9 while my head keeps saying "Dell XPS 13!" My plan now is to purchase an XPS 13 (Microsoft store, 30 day return!) and use them both for a while. There's a good chance that I will keep the Samsung even if I conclude the Dell is better for my writing activities because, well, having this maxxed out AB9+ for what will end up being $1,097 (no tax, just got a $100 coupon!) seems too hard to resist, if only to offer family, friend or NBR mate such a great deal. I know the half-life of a "great deal" on a laptop these days is about 2 weeks - meaning that soon Samsung will cut the price to the retail channel by some $400 - $500 and we'll be seeing it selling new for close to the $1,100 I'm paying for the open box today, just as Dell recently did with the XPS 13 (8GB/128GB from $1,299 to $999; 8GB/256GB from $1,699 to $1,299). Still and all, being true to my NBR screen ID requires that at any given time I own at least 2 more mobile computers than I need and they will either be still in their return window or have been acquired so reasonably that "liquidating" the surplus will either be profitable or afford me the opportunity to do a truly good turn for someone!

Do you have any thoughts to add now that I've advanced to full ownership and use of the AB9 and have encountered more keyboard disappointment than I even anticipated? I have used the XPS 13 for a few days a month ago and, while I recall the keyboard being the best on a 13" laptop since the good old days of Thinkpads, I'll need to retest that with the AB9 side by side and by keenly observing the other pros and cons of using the Dell vs the Samsung.

And, finally, I am due for a tablet upgrade. As much as I truly adore my Samsung Galaxy Note 8 with Wacom digitizer, it very much want a Windows tablet, preferably 9-10", primarily to be able to have an active digitizer driving full Windows One Note rather than the very usable and fairly compatible Android note-taking apps which, at best, are but best-effort substitutes for the "real thing," meaning One Note. The SP/SP2 are two thick and heavy and the SP3 are too large - if impossibly thin and light - for the true companion device I want this to be. (Sorry, MS, I am not planning on the SP3 replacing my laptop!)

Thanks again for the advice and leads. I really enjoy having these kinds of discussions, and have missed them since the 2010-2012 when it was all-Sony Z, all the time!

All the best,
Jeff Bellin

PS: how did you change your sub-ID to "moderately inquisitive from whatever it would automatically assign you based on your rep count (I assume yours would be several levels above "notebook deity!")? I don't want to lose the recognition people have of my otherwise ridiculous "Lovelaptops" handle, but I would love to change the sub-titling to something like "my friends call me Jeff." You can easily do that yourself on TPCR.com, but I couldn't find a way to do it on NBR. Thanks, Jeff

 

My only comment about getting used to the keyboard is to pay more attention to what appears on the screen.

As for 10" Windows tablets, check you can find on the refurb Dells.

Regarding your PS: Click on Settings near the top right of the NBR window (at least if you are using the cB4 Default Style) then select Edit profile from the list on the left. The second item on my list is Custom User Title.

John

 

Thanks for the keyboard suggestion. I take it you've become comfortable with the Samsung 9 keyboards after all this time?

Also, thanks for directing me how to change my secondary title; really wanted that!

As for the Dell 10" which one(s) are you referring to? The Venue Pro series is a non-starter because of the Synaptics active digitizer. It pretty much has to be Wacom or Ntrig.

Thanks again,
Jeff

 

1. Yes, after over 2 years I've got accustomed to the Samsung ultrabook keyboard. What my NP900X4C lacks in travel is compensated by a good set of navigation keys. There's a fair amount of mis-typing but that's a PBKAC issue.

2. It's easy when you know how (I had to figure it out once upon a time).

3. I think the previous generation of Dell tablet (Latitude 10) uses the Wacom digitizer (provided you get the right version of the tablet). It's a superseded model but that should be reflected in the price.

John

 

PBKAC?

big help - wish I'd never created the "brand" Lovelaptops, at least now my name is part of my ID!

I believe the previous generation of Latitude's used Clovertrail Atom cpus - need at least Baytrail. New Thinkpad 10 is nice alternate to your Acer Windows tablet, but way too expensive with pen (some $700-$800!) The only well priced BT Windows tablet with Wacom is the Asus Vivo Note 8, but it has severe reliability problems. Seems like no matter what new products come out, the Galaxy Note (8 or 10) series or the Tegra Note 7 are the only reasonably priced tablets that handle inking well and for a reasonable price (if you get the Galaxies as refurbs), but we're still talking Android. All things considered, Android companions with note taking are the best bet for now. Other thoughts?

 

PBKAC (there are other spellings) is the most common cause of computer malfunction and is explained here here.

I've no more thoughts on tablets at the moment except to note that there's not much difference in size and weight between the Latitude 10 tablet (with the big 60WHr battery) and my Samsung NP900X3B. The two advantages of the former are the battery life (17 hrs, IIRC) and fewer moving parts. However, the latter can be used like a proper computer.

John

 

It's been so long since I've seen PBKAC or some of the ones I'm more familiar with (from many moons ago) that I was about to write something like, "well, whatever causes most peoples' keyboard problems, I know mine is largely located between the back of my chair and my fingertips!

Ok, new issue, out of left field, hoping you might have a good link to provide, as the usual search methods are just running me in circles! Suddenly today - I am just about positive it just began - I am having all kinds of text scaling problems on this ridiculous 3200x1800 screen! Believe it or not, biggest and most noticeable problems are occurring on NBR. Specifically, screen ids and sub-ids are all out of alignment and avatars - yours my favorite! - are gone! There is lots of overlapping of text at the bottom of each post (the "Reply, Edit, Reply with Quote, Multi-quote this message") and on the sidebars showing most popular threads or new threads, much of the text is run-on. I don't recall making any changes last night that could be causing this. I've fiddled around with all the settings and nothing helps, but I'm quite certain I had been using full resolution, 200% scaling and nothing else special and I had no problems with Firefox or even Chrome, which gives so many problems.

I feel like there is one change I made that screwed everything up and I don't even realize what it was. Since I had just activated this computer there was only one Update restore point, and it was this morning at 3Am and restoring to it doesn't change anything.

Please, make me feel really stupid and tell me how to make all the world right again! (Aside from getting rid of this ridiculous screen and sticking with FHD for the forseeable future! Btw, I thought maybe going to 1600x900 might get me the "Retina Effect" of ultrasharp text with 4x pixels but, alas, W8.1 is not OSX!

 

I don't have a fix for the display problem. If you haven't done so, try a shut down and cold boot.

Otherwise you'll have to go to the NP940X3G thread and seek guidance from other owners.

While Windows' handling of display scaling has improved over the years, I think I'm a few years away from expecting it to work reliably (even when running programs which haven't heard of display scaling).

John

 

Thanks. I had been using an HP Spectre 13T with 2560x1440 display and W8.1, using 200% scaling and it worked perfectly, never was off even by a hair! I wouldn't have gone near the 9+ had I not found all the fear mongering about these outrageous pixel densities to be untrue in "real life." With all the popularity of the Lenovo Yoga 2 Pro - and even the 9+, at far lower volumes no doubt - I find it hard to imagine that the 3200x1800 is not pretty much as manageable as the QHD was. BTW, if you haven't seen FHD or QHD content on a QHD/QHD+ screen, you will not believe what the additional pixel density does, despite the claim that the human eye can't detect differences at greater than 188 ppi (the 9+ being 276 ppi!) at 45cm distance from the screen. Even high quality FHD content on a high quality QHD 13" screen looks astonishingly better than the same content on an equivalent quality FHD screen. Thanks again for all. I guess the purpose I had in mind for this thread has been fully satisfied, thanks exclusively to you! Amazing how many have looked but not a single person has seen fit to comment or question. See you around soon - and often - I trust! All the best, Jeff