*** XMG Apex 15 with Ryzen 3950X / Clevo NH58AF1 Owner's Lounge ***

Thank you for the update!

Will it be on this page when it is available: https://www.sagernotebook.com/drivers.php?cat=746 ?

 

I think you have to email their support and request the bios.

 

may I give it a go?

 

@Meaker@Sager I agree. Sbeezy should give it a go and tell us how it performs.

 

You could try the XMG BIOS/EC, they posted it this morning.

 

Maybe all of these points are why this is the only desktop Ryzen laptop design available...
This laptop is very niche, does not make sense for most people. I'd say that if you do not absolutely need that insane multi-core performance,
this laptop is not worth it. But those that do need that extra performance must be really happy to have that option.
Comes to a point where silence and low temps are worth more than better benchmarks.
Still a fascinating product for the laptop geek that I am to drool over!

 

They have two bios files listed tho.
is 1.07.02 the one XMG shipped with?

Also... has anyone with a regular clevo-branded model tried flashing it, yet? Any success?


EDIT: How exactly do you flash those updates? Any guides possibly?

 

One file is the BIOS update, the other is the EC update. You may want to try asking the place you bought it from first for an update.

 

arent they supposed to be interchangeable tho?
Any branded bios file can be flashed to any clevo with the same model-number?

 

Non-XMG system here. Updated to 1.07.04RTR3 Bios just fine. The only XMG thing is the boot screen, which no longer says Sager for me.


It unlocks some advanced chipset options, but not much. It allows you to pick from one of the four performance modes (Entertainment, Quiet, etc.) but that is it for CPU / Emissions options. No virtualization option, but it is now enabled by default. Still waiting for underclocking / undervolting options in bios.

 

Hey @Brian Crawford well done mate!
I found documentation within the BIOS archives but that was in chinese.

Any info on how this is done?

 

I just double clicked the EXE in the XMG zip. Everything went smoothly.

 

Oh okay, that sounds pretty straightforward then!

What about the EC update tho?

 

I haven't done that because the version number seems the same as what I already have, and I'm happy with my 3rd-party emissions tweaks for the time being.

 

I have googled around a bit and apparently the EC update is supposed to precede the BIOS update.

 

If so, I wouldn't know, because my Obsidian PC Fan Control is still working like a charm. That would be sloppy of the BIOS providers to provide files without important sequencing instructions.

 

I found this
Link: https://download.schenker-tech.de/package/bios-update-via-efi-shell/

This explains the process.

EDIT: and yes, very sloppy. Hosting the manual alongside it would have been a smart move on their part imho

 

I am getting significantly higher temps now.

Under full load with my fan config i was reaching the low seventies yesterday.

After this update i now get well beyond eighty.

Clocks are the same.
Cpu is still limited to 36x at 0.925v
gpu limited to 1600mhz.

My system is getting insanely hot tho

 

@YardSnake well that's no good

So did you do the EC update? Are you using the automatic fan controls? Perhaps the new automatic tables err on the side of quiet rather than cool. Again I wouldn't know because I'm customizing with Obsidian.

I'm still on the same settings as before, with my 3900 and still idling at 65C at 20% fan and maxing at 85C with only 48% fan. 35x at 0.988v

 

@Brian Crawford Everything was set up manually with the obsidian tools.

I even checked during gameplay.
Its all the same, everything is just a lot hotter.
I was idling in the seventies. Thats insane.

EDIT: Yeah, did both updates. EC first.

Reset BIOS to optimized Defaults before first Boot.

 

Maybe try pulling the RTC backup battery and hold the power button down for 30 seconds to do an EC reset? Does the system feel noticably warmer or is it just reporting higher values in the monitoring tool?

 

I did the EC update and it took forever through the win flash app. Next time I will handle it all via EFI shell. Temps are still the same. Only change I've seen outside of the XMG logo is that my RAM went back to 1300mhz because I had to pull CMOS and battery after the EC flash.

 

Figured out the sound issue was only a Chrome issue, because the app vol and device preferences somehow changed from defaulting to whatever device has priority of sound assigned to it. all is now good in the hood once more.

 

@win32asmguy are you still having crackling audio? I noticed that after I wiped the Creative and Realtek drivers with DDU the driver that windows installed on it's own is clear like playing a Zero Bit Mute track through a CD player that kills its outputs when there's supposed to be silence

 

@Brian Crawford @Sbeezy @win32asmguy
win32asmguy was right. That did the trick.
Temps are normal again.
No clue what was going on there.
I was so close to returning that thing tho.

71C during idle was insane!

EDIT: Sbeezy thats really weird. EC went very fast for me.
It was done in maybe three seconds and then it said it was done and shut down my notebook.
I checked in the BIOS screen and everything updated fine. Both version numbers had changed.

 

@snake I wanna say it was because I flashed in windows. bios took like 4 seconds

 

@Sbeezy i think you might have pinged the wrong guy there ; PP

Yeah, i used the efi shell and it went really fast, but then afterwards i had those temp issues, so maybe windows was better after all? Who knows.

You know what i am wondering? Wether they have already managed to change the source of the temp-readings. Thats why we got those wild fluctuations and the resulting fan-revving.
A video-review mentioned that and also noted how they could take temp-readings from different sources to fix it.

Havent had much of a chance to test it properly, yet but thats one of the main-changes i want.

 

You can try contacting support for the BIOS files and asking nicely.

 

@Meaker@Sager Sometimes the most obvious answer is also the best one

 

I was incredulous that i was getting higher temps all of a sudden and couldnt properly explain it.
CPU/GPU were running at clearly predefined voltages/clocks and i haven't changed anything about my fan curves or power-plan settings.

Must have been the BIOS right?
After the EC-flash temps were indeed off, but that wasnt the end of it.
Even after that was fixed temps were still higher than before by an egregious 6 to 7C.

I had used Coolermaster Mastergel Maker when i first received the device, but switched to Kryonaut shortly before the BIOS flash.
Kryonaut does not do well on this notebook. It just doesnt.
Reviews led me to buy an unholy amount of the stuff and i expected improvements, but thermal performance is significantly worse than Mastergel Maker.

Spent the whole evening and a whole lot of thermal paste cleaning and carefully re-applying thermal paste and tested consistently with the same games, same savegames for the same duration with the same applications and background services running on all latest drivers and a fully updated Windows 10 Enterprise. I have varied application methods and mounting pressures.
No matter what i did Mastergel Maker always comes out on top.

Thats what i get for listening to the hype.

EDIT:
@Brian Crawford Did you keep working on your settings for fancontrol (CPU and GPU?), CPU parking etc?
If possible i would love to see the settings you arrived at.

 

Hi Brian,
(My first post here)
I am very interested in Apex15 with Ryzen 3900x and I would like to thank you for the experience you share, and also to all users here sharing useful tips for Apex 15 Ryzen.

I have some questions:
1. Regarding idle mode you shared it is at 65 C - at what frequency avg it was? Is not that temperature a bit high for idle?
2. Regarding full load at 85 C - how you did it - Prime95 or Cinebench? If Cinebench - what was the score? Also what wss the avg frequency
3. Do you feel the laptop is appropriate for continuous daily use(after the tweaks you made) - temps in control while longer in use?

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk

 

As you have witnessed firsthand, Kryonaut has terrible longevity for notebooks.

 

@yrekabakery That may very well be true, but i had barely even applied it a day before!
At first i thought that maybe i had air bubbles. I spread it evenly before lowering the cooler and tightening the screws little by little in the order specified in the service manual over and over till i reached maximum mounting pressure, but **** happens.
Coulda very well been my fault anyway, but after this many tests all i am sure of is that kryonaut doesnt seem to be the ideal choice here.
Dont know why. Maybe the heatsink never reaches the mounting-pressure kryonaut would need? Who knows.
For now i am sticking with Mastergel Maker. If anyone has tried other thermal pastes that are better than kryonaut i would love to hear about the results!

 

Phobya NanoGrease is the best there is for notebooks. Very high viscosity, stable, and excellent conductivity. You need a thick viscous paste for "low pressure" heat sinks, which all notebooks fall under.

 

@ThatOldGuy Do you mean Phobya Nanogrease Extreme?

 

Yees.

 

@ThatOldGuy @Papusan Brilliant. I purchased the last cheap one on german amazon.
Cant wait to give it a try.
Lord knows this notebook needs every tiny bit of help it can get when it comes to cooling.

 

Weird! Kryonaut did better than the ic graphite that’s on my GPU now I’ll do some stress testing and log it and report back the deltas between the 2.

 

My pleasure - welcome Chris. Glad my writeups and procedures have helped.

1. The idle @ 65C is my preference with noise and power settings. You could get it lower if you could stand higher fan noise. I just did full-leaf-blower mode on idle and got 51C. You need to realize that this system has 30W of heat on the CPU at all times, even when it's doing nothing. At idle, the cooling system has to deal with twice the heat of a normal ultrabook at load. With my aggressive parking settings and undervolting, most of the cores are parked at idle and the ones that are unparked are at lower speed, like 500-800 Mhz. They bump up to 3.5Ghz quick enough. I'm happy with 65C - especially since I can barely hear the fan.

2. I'm running at 3.5Ghz all-core with 0.944v at load. The 85C is Cinebench R20 after a few runs. Score around 6100. Prime95 small FFT gets to 90C.

3. Depends on your daily use. I'm mixed-use, with most of my time in quiet office tasks, with heavier rendering projects a couple times a month, and also games. I'm happy with my use case for the long haul.

@YardSnake, here are my current fan tables. Everything else (ParkControl, ZenStates, Power Plan) is the same as I gave before. I haven't done any GPU tweaking because I haven't been bothered by the GPU noise, and it's plenty fast for me.

 

Tweaking! how does this look? I know I still need to tighten timings, but I'm trying to track an issue with CB R20 that has my laptop rebooting in the middle of the test when nothings changed but the bios and RAM. Ram came before bios and all checked out with RAMTEST, Can stress everything on the board with AIDA64 but it stays running. increased voltage slightly and it still happens in CB R20

 

@Sbeezy are you doing ram-oc?
If so, are you using ryzen master or a mod-bis?
If you want ones that overclock really well and are also very cheap get micron e-dies.
crucial ballistix and so forth.
i got mine running 3733mhz@cl16 on my desktop.

 

Sweet!
@YardSnake can you confirm that AMD-V/Virtualization is enabled in the latest XMG 1.07.04RTR3 BIOS?

 

Its definitely enabled in the latest BIOS i got from the xmg/schenker download page.
Just remember to flash EC before BIOS and when you are done, just to be safe reset bios bios to optimized defaults, then shutdown the device, remove the battery on the board for at least 30 seconds and start notebook by holding down power for thirty seconds before shutting down once again and re-inserting battery.

I didnt do the few parts step with the battery and had issues as a result.

 

I’m gonna try it, I have exactly that! I’m using Ryzen Master! I wish I had a mod bios

 

Ha, i always knew you had good taste!
Well, having a well-working Bios-version is the first thing we need before we can ask here and/or over on win-raid for someone to mod it.
This BIOS version is an improvement and we could definitely go there and request for someone to take a look at it, but this bios is still so fresh.
Maybe best to wait a few days and see if people have issues with it.

 

I had Corsair vengeance as it was sure to work, I knew Der8auer had issues with ballistix and getting it to run, mine worked properly at rated speeds out the box. Good thing for amazons return policy!

 

I am still banking on the modbios letting me OC the ballistix.
bauer had a beta bios, so maybe thats the reason it was so unstable? Who knows.

 

The beta bios could not have helped. It was potentially older AGESA code. XMG said they were working on getting another bios release out with AGESA 1.0.0.5 which is the latest you would find for a desktop bios. Not sure what the current version is with the 1.07.04 bios. Hopefully that new version will also improve SSD compatibility as well.

Is your Ballistix stable at stock timings? I tried a Kingston HyperX kit this week that has Micron E-die and it could not boot to Windows. Linux would boot, but the system would halt if put under stress. This kit does have JEDEC DDR4-3200 CL20 timings but I wonder if there is some kind of assumption made in those timings making it only stable with Intel CPU's.

 

@win32asmguy yeah, havent had a single issue with those sticks!

 

What speeds and timings does it use by default? The HyperX branded Samsung B-die 32GB kit I have is DDR4-2666 16-17-17-35 tRC 60 tRFC 467 1T.