Sager NP 9873-S from Xotic PC through Amazon

Ok so I don't normally review products but felt I should here due to some unique aspects to what drove me to my purchase which I have not found mentioned much elsewhere. As I said in the title I purchased a Sager NP 9873-S (CLEVO P870DM3) from Xotic PC through Amazon on October 24th 2016. I got the system delivered on November 14th two days before my birthday which was what the plan was since my last system was starting to show its age of 4 years old to the month.


My purchase decision was made on a few factors. First was cost, I don't take large purchases lightly and always want to get the best price I can with discounts and purchase options. Second features, I wanted a 3k screen and thunderbolt were must haves. Third, repairability, my last laptop (alienware M17x R4) had its graphics card die (cap exploded) a year after warranty ended, if it didn't have an MXM graphics card I would have had to purchase a whole new system (mind you the replacement card was almost half the cost of the system).


While I did not do a whole lot of review research on this specific laptop (which I partly regret) I did watch Linus Tech Tips review of the system (which mainly brought the system to my attention) and then I looked at specs and purchase options. After comparing different resellers and checking on amazon I decided to go with Xotic PC because they had what seemed was the best price and offered the ability to purchase a customized system through amazon. Purchasing through amazon allowed me to use my amazon card to get 3% of the cost back in points.


For the specs I only made a few changes to the base model which came with the 3K screen, the intel i7 6700k processor, the single Geforce 1080, the killer wireless card, and the 1TB 7200rpm disk drive. I did choose to remove the M.2 because I decided I would want to have a 512MB NVMe drive which comparing costs I could purchase and install myself and save around $70. I also increased the ram to 32GB, requested to remove all branding and requested a copy of windows 10 pro.


Thus far I have been hesitantly pleased with my purchase. Coming from my old system it was absolutely pleasant to have the smooth gameplay from the 1080 graphics and G-Sync. The factory install of windows was also nicely done seeing only standard windows bloat and no other unnecessary software from the vendor. A solidly built system that feels almost as sturdy as my old Alienware M17X R1 (with aluminum chassis). Speaker placement is great compared to my previous systems where they were on the front under the palm rest. The speed at which I got my system was also nice as was my initial contacts with Xotic PC sales email (i'll have more to say on that later.)



Since I tend toward over explaining things I will try to keep most of the details in spoiler tags and the main points before them incase someone only wants the main points.



Downsides of the system, the factory installed wireless software drops connection while downloading, the clevo control center fan profiles seem to run to slow making the system run hot and the fans seem very loud at full speed if you want it to remain cool.

Spoiler: My Problems with the System

However there are a few things I am distinctly unhappy with. First I should mention that while I am a gamer, I am not that interested in overclocking and feel a system should run well straight from the factory. I do believe I even read on the site and in many other posts elsewhere that they take the time to ensure your system works well before they ship it to you even if you did not request extra tuning or similar features. However I did not find that to be done as well as I thought. I will admit I do not know everything and I have even heard some things people recommend on this forum that I have not even looked into doing.

• Wireless problems; when I started downloading installers (for steam etc), the wireless would drop connection to the internet but remain connected to the router until I manually restarted the connection, I was able to fix this after uninstalling the killer suite and just installing an older driver version windows had.
  
  
• The fans; as others have said the fans at least on the GPU are very loud when going on maximum. I know it is a downside of laptops that heat dissipation is complex but the video reviews I saw all said the system stayed cool and quiet under heavy loads. While using the fan profiles on the clevo control center I either would get high heat or loud fans (mostly in WoW). after trying a few different versions I finally got the custom fan profile to work but even at 80% fan speed (which is loud but acceptable) I still hit 89*F. I have not spent much game time (with the holidays and such recently) but the few other games I have tried still get up near 80*F. Some have suggested in other threads to repaste the graphics but again, with the price being spent I would have hopped that they took the time to do a good paste job. Note this is not due to blocking of the ventilation, I have wood lapdesk that I made so I would have plenty of airflow and space for my mouse.

There were a few other minor annoyances, the length of the power cord from brick to port was about a foot or more shorter than my previous systems (2 alienware and a Hel80) which makes me wish I could get a short extension. The keyboard layout, it's not something I know can be changed easily but I do wish I still had my alienware keyboard which had the arrow keys down which gave full length shift and numpad 0 keys. The stickers that were placed on the palm rest, while I don't mind them, the location bugged me to the point I tried to carefully lift them and move them to the left edge next to the keyboard, I may just fully remove them at some point.

There is one last point I should go over, the buying process. In short my first emails were fast, subsequent emails took days (or no reply in the case of finding out about the free item I didn't get with my order). Amazon purchase option was a positive however I didn't get the free physical item (option at the time was a bluetooth headset, there are others id prefer now but didn't order when those were available). Edit: I did just receive the headset the same day that I posted this review, while I appreciate them sending it I would have liked to have had some email response initially.

Spoiler: Detailed Order Experience

Earlier I said the initial contact with sales at Xotic PC went well, and it did. When I first sent an email requesting information about getting an amazon listing made in regards to any limitations on customizations (such as removing components, removing branding), any specific free items I would not be able to select (the free bluetooth headset, the nvidia game code) and because at the time the screen was back ordered, would I need to wait to request an amazon link for my purchase until after that back order was resolved. I got an email back promptly and set about making my decisions. about a week later when the backorder was resolved I sent my request for my customizations, remove branding, remove the base m.2, upgrade to 32gb ram, and install windows 10 pro. I also mentioned I would like to get the free promotional items that were listed on the order page and mentioned that they were the free bluetooth raptor headset and the nvidia gears of war bundle code, I did also mention the free shipping promotion even though I had previously been told that amazon purchases will still incur a shipping charge (which was a reasonable price and I was willing to pay it).


Once again I got a prompt reply saying they would have my amazon link in 24-48 hours, being a thursday I was hoping that it would be on the 24 hour side but I never got an email. I did search on amazon for the laptop model (which is how I found out Xotic PC did amazon listings) and found one that was quite similar to my own specs that I requested however it did not have windows 10 pro, only windows 10 home and there was no mention of any free items. I waited until monday when I sent another email asking if this was my listing and if it was, was there a reason they only put windows 10 home and if I needed to do anything else to request the free items or if they were being included based on the base configuration having them anyway. Then I emailed again on wednesday checking to see if the guy had got my email and mentioning that searching amazon no longer showed the listing (but clicking the link I saved it was still there).


That friday I did get a response saying that the link still worked but nothing else. Not long after I got that email I replied asking again about the lack of windows 10 pro and asking once more about getting the free items and if there was anything I needed to do to request them. While I was hoping for a response that day it was already late in the day and did not expect anything until monday. Monday I did get a response simply stating they got the link adjusted with windows 10 pro. At this point I was hesitant but having read that sometimes they take time to reply to emails and they still had an edge on pricing so I placed my order.


Now it was time to wait. Since I purchased through amazon and not directly through their site I understood that it was unlikely I would get status updates. 2 weeks later I decided I would send another email and start a new chain to see if I could get any status update since my card had not even been charged yet (there was a hold but that dropped off). Once again I got a prompt reply saying it looked like it would be shipping out that friday or monday and that I would get the tracking as soon as they get it which is usually a day after shipping. I was happy when it turned out that it shipped even earlier than predicted. Once it arrived on monday november 14th I opened it up and started looking over everything and getting the system ready to run only to find that while I got the free Nvidia game code (which I wasn't really interested in) I didn't get the free headset which is the main free item I was wanting to get.


I did send an email 2 days later on wednesday to the second sales rep I contacted for the status update asking if there was any reason I did not get the free headset. Did they run out? Was it overlooked? I even checked the product page to see if it was still being offered and it was along with other options that, had I waited til then to order, I would have been even more put off by not getting (the android watch specifically since I already have a headset although it was a fairly cheap one). But since that day I have not received any word back and decided that I would finish my review for now and post it.

Edit: As I said before the spoiler I did get the headset in the mail late the same day I posted this review but never got an email about it being sent.

One last consideration for my purchase through Xotic PC, at the time of my decision making I did hear about Prema bios mod for Clevo laptops, while I did not investigate further (which I regret) I figured at the time if I needed it, usually that stuff is posted somewhere on these forums for people to obtain as needed. Sadly I was wrong and only found out when I was researching the fan issues that the bios mod is only available from select resellers. While I cannot hold it against Xotic PC or Prema it is something a person may want to be aware of when deciding on who to purchase from should they come looking here for others experiences.

If I could suggest something to Xotic PC in regards to amazon purchases it would be seeing if there is a way to give an order number to amazon purchases that could be entered on their website and allow build tracking once a user creates an account. I don't know if it would be possible or how difficult it would be but it might be a nice feature.


In conclusion, as far as the laptop goes it is a fairly good system. Once I got the few problems I had figured out it has run nicely although I still feel the system does have a few minor things that could have been improved. As for purchasing through Xotic PC, if you are willing to wait for email communication at times or call directly and don't mind not having access to the bios mod then they seem to be a fairly good reseller. However time will only tell when it comes to any future problems which I can only hope will not happen and that the system will survive the 3-4 years I have had most of my systems last.

 

You should try making a custom fan curve. I'm not sure how the P870DM (your laptop) is handling that right now without the Prema bios.

And yeah, since the system is so high end and expensive we usually recommend a few things when you order one. Getting a reseller who can delid and repaste the machine will help bring temps under control.

As long as you fixed the Killer issue it should be fine. People say the Intel cards are much better, but while yes Killer is sometimes finicky in the beginning once you get it working it should be fine after that.

Also note that laptop can handle the second 1080 if you ever wanted a second gpu down the road. Or possibly it may take the next gen of gpus (though that's not confirm-able at this time).

@Tanner@XoticPC Where is his headset? The guy spent way way more than most of your customers...

 

See the initial part of my review here to know why you may want the Prema BIOS:

EVOC P870DM3 Review by Phoenix

 

Well that was unexpected. I will be updating my review since last night I ended up getting a package from Xotic with the headset. while this is great I never knew it was coming.

I know there are reasons to get one with the prema bios but at this point the only way I could get it would be to return this system and then pay more to get it through one of the vendors that partnered with Prema which isn't something I can or really want to do at this point.

 

I purchased my initial P870DM3 from XoticPC and I sent it back. Trust me, you are going to want PremaMod later on in the life of your computer.

 

You can get pretty close to thermal limits with the stock BIOS so it's really only going to be for the hardcore benchmarkers

 

so not true, in stock BIOS:

1) you have no access to Ring (AKA Cache) voltage
2) When you want to set a negative offset, the tooltip on the right says enter a value from -500mV to 500mV, well, if you type a negative sign, it doesn't register, so you can't actually input a negative value to undervolt
3) no access to turbo power max and turbo short power max which is vital to ensure the CPU has enough power to operate at Turbo clocks without throttling
4) no access to Power Limit 3 and 4, only 1 and 2

I could go on forever about the limitations, the laptops are simply not usable with the stock BIOS, be it for overclocking or to run the computer at stock but the way it's meant to be used, (ie. without throttling)

just my 2 cents worth, take it or leave it

Again......

Benefits of Prema BIOS:

• Fixes the biggest issue with these Clevo laptops where they would throttle the CPU as low as 2.5 GHz the moment both the CPU & GPU are under load due to current issues with the Clevo Stock BIOS/EC Firmware.
• The ability to disable other drives connected to your system without physically removing them from your laptop, this comes in handy when installing Windows as you never want to have more than one drive connected at the time you are installing Windows otherwise the Windows setup will place the boot files on the 2nd drive it sees which hurts performance and makes it a headache when creating system images or restoring since the boot files are not on the main drive.
• The ability to overclock, increase Turbo Power Limits and System IA/Core Current Limits
• The ability to enable Intel Speed Shift Technology (it is disabled in the stock BIOS)
• The ability to run RAM with speeds higher than the standard 2133 MHz. I am not talking about overclocking here, I am talking about actual RAM sticks that are rated to run at 2800 MHz for example like the G.Skill 64GB 2800 MHz kit I have. With the stock BIOS, they will not run above 2400 MHz. In the case of the P870DM3, the stock BIOS now supports up to 2666 MHz. I believe but not more, so the Prema BIOS is a must again
• Fixes the instability with the G.Skill 3000 MHz. RAM using XMP Profile 1 with timings of 16-18-18-18 where in the stock BIOS you would have constant crashes or not be able to boot altogether so you’re forced to use XMP Profile 2 which is slower with 18-18-18-18 timings.
• The ability to enable CSM for those who want to install other OSes like Windows 7
• The ability to undervolt the CPU as the stock voltage is way too high which causes the CPU to overheat much quicker and thus throttle under load.
• The ability to enable or disable CPU AES instructions or Virtualization
• The ability to disable hibernation from the BIOS
• Sets the default keyboard lights from blue to white which suits more tastes

Benefits of Prema VBIOS:

• Power throttle disabled
• Over-voltage slider enabled and adjusted (up to a maximum of 1.2v)
• Activated and adjusted thermal slider (to keep it cooler if desired)
• Core overclock slider limit raised
• Power consumption meter activated
• Fixed 3D voltage base-line in order to stabilize OCs and voltage-match both cards in SLI systems (based on average ASIC)
• Thermal protection @ 92c (once*91c are breached the system throttles volts and clocks in order to protect it)
• Protection against Furmark and Kombustor GPU burnout (AVOID those software even with stock vBIOS)!

 

Yet with the stock bios I have matched against desktops just fine and have run and shown consistent results.

Like I said, for most people they wont need to go further than I have gone as it works really well for 24/7 operation.

You want to chase records, then fine tweak that last breath out of it, that's good.

 

Thanks for purchasing your system with us, and for taking the time to write that up.

I wish I had an option to tie Amazon orders in to our site. It has been brought up before, but I think because Amazon wants to keep as much communication in-house (for both customer and seller protection reasons), it might not be doable. That is a bit of speculation on my part though. Maybe it is just a matter of how much it might be used, as most customers just reach out to us through Amazon regardless. I'll be sure to bring it up again in the future though.

If you do need help with the system, feel free to reach out to me here through a direct message, or email me. If you email us through Amazon, I'm always on top of keeping 24 hours on response times at an absolute max. Our support email address is also typically under 24 hours, but that has a bit more volume of messages there. But I'm glad to help out if there is anything I can do for you.

As for the headset, that would ship out from us directly, while the computer comes from Sager in most cases. It is normal that ships out in a different box. But if you can message me here, email me, or contact us through Amazon with your order number, I'll certainly check on it.

 

as for the prema bios again, while id have liked to have it, I am not going to return my purchase just for that at this point. maybe if it was still in the order process I would consider it but even then one of the main reasons I didn't go with someone else was due to price difference and while there were places that may have matched or beat the price by a bit, the amazon purchase point still gave me more cash back. I know its unlikely to happen but maybe the bios will get better or there will be another option in the future for a bios mod.

pat@XOTICPC thanks for your response, I think it may have been you I did ask about my order status in November and then replied a week later when I didn't see the headset but I did already get it in the mail Monday evening after I had posted my review. At the time I didn't know it would come separately so i will keep that in mind for the future.

 

Sometimes saving a few bucks up front comes at a steep cost later on. At least you have decent hardware as a foundation and had the foresight to avoid BGA garbage from Alienware, MSI, ASUS, etc. Maybe you will get lucky and @Prema will make the firmware mods available to all Clevo owners some day, but that might not be until each model becomes obsolete.

As long as you don't install the Killer PUP/bloatware "Suite" the 1202 and 1535 are truly outstanding. The Killer Suite ruins performance and causes many problems. I don't even understand why they offer it any more. But, I have had nothing but a good experience from both of those Killer cards using a driver-only installation.

I purchased an Intel 8260 to replace the utterly worthless Realtek WiFi piece of trash that came with the P750ZM. It is clearly many times better than what it replaced, but compared to my experience with three 1202 and three 1535 Killer WiFI cards, if I had to do it over again I would not choose the Intel WiFi card. I only say that because I find it more finicky about drivers than my Killer cards have been. With the right drivers installed the 8260 works fine.

 

I personally swapped the Intel 8260 from my old machine into the 9873 which I had got the killer with. But the intel just seems to get on better with the Asus router.

 

Sorry about the delayed response, I haven't been on the forums as much the last couple weeks with the increase in holiday sales and tickets. But if you ever need anything, just let me know and I'll be glad to check in to it. I'm glad to hear it arrived, thanks for that update.