*** Official Clevo P960EP6/ P960ED/ P960EF/ P960EN Owner's Lounge ***

This is the full RTX 2080 and not the MQ ?

 

It's the thin and light chassis that all the resellers sell so it's max-q.

 

But if I have a 144hz screen, if I enable vsync and I can’t hit 144 FPS, am I basically limited to 72fps? A 2060 won’t be able to play AAA games at high settings and give 144 FPS, right? It’s not clear to me what the experience will be like if i have a 2070 and get somewhere betweeen 90-110 FPS on a 144 hz monitor. Is it best to just disable vsync at that point and deal with tearing?

 

It doesn't just drop the frame rate down to whatever the closest it can do; that wouldn't be so bad actually. Vsync does not cause a constant frame rate change, but a momentary one. If a new frame is not ready it gets repeated, causing a stuttering effect. With vsync off, only the portion of the new frame that is complete is drawn, causing a tearing effect.

Here is a great way to see what's going on:
https://www.testufo.com/gsync#framerate=ramp&photo=quebec.jpg&pps=960&compare=1

Keep in mind this test is designed to make the stuttering painfully obvious. While busy playing a game you are less likely to notice, but you might. The only time I've ever noticed stuttering in a game that obvious, it was because I was using two video cards in SLI (I'm never doing that again.)

And tons of info here:
https://www.blurbusters.com/gsync/gsync101-input-lag-tests-and-settings/

I did some searching last night wondering if having 144Hz would, by virtue of having a much higher refresh rate, have less pronounced tearing with vsync off, and less pronounced stuttering with vsync on. Basically I concluded that yes, it would be less pronounced, but still there. Since I hardly notice it now I'm sure I'd be perfectly happy with 144hz and no G-sync.

At any rate, there are very very few thin and light gaming laptops that offer G-sync anyway. The only one I've seen is the Asus Zephyrus, and they keep putting a pretend numpad/trackpad on that thing that I know I would hate. (They did have a version with the full 1070 and a numpad; I'm still considering that one.)

 

Thanks, that’s very helpful. For a 144hz screen would you recommend vsync off then? Seems like enabling vsync could result in a 50+ FPS drop if I can’t reach 144

 

Do you have a link I would like to review anything left out from info of resellers?

 

Due to the forum rules I cannot link back to the Sager site but if you click on the products you will find a tab to the product specs.

 

I linked rjtech in your reply about mux and in the specs it says: Switchable GPU by Microsoft Hybrid Graphics for p970. Is this the drones we’re looking for?

 

RJTech also says WVA FHD 144hz 3ms display. I noticed other resellers just say TN for equivalent model. Are those clear indicators that one is selling the better display with wide viewing angles or is it just the same lingo misrepresented.

 

I always use vsync because tearing bothers me a lot more than jittering, but that's me.

 

I think a lot of TN screens have wide viewing angles these days. TN isn't nearly as bad as it used to be.

 

Example on @GenTechPC
TN @144Hz 7ms, 72% NTSC Wide-Angle View

That is different than RJTech’s WVA 3ms no?

 

I imagine they're all the same as I don't see why there would be multiple 16.1" screens out there this early in their existence. None of these screens say "IPS" or "IPS-like" and they probably would if they were, because most people still assume IPS is a thing to have and TN is a thing to avoid. The marketing people know this, so if their screen is anything other than TN, they usually state it. If it is TN, they usually don't say what it is.

This is all an educated guess so I could be wrong.

Generally it's more difficult/expensive these days to make a high refresh/low latency IPS screen than a TN with good colors and wide viewing angles, so I expect and am ok with the latter.

The guy who did the Aftershock review on YouTube really liked the screen.

 

WVA just means "wide viewing angle." It's not a panel tech.

 

So my NP960EN (2080MQ) finally came in tonight from @GenTechPC . Still working on getting everything over to it, but results are promising!

My Setup: (Other than the obvious):
Thermals: Kryonaut on CPU + GPU + Fujipoly
RAM: 16GB (2x8) | 2666MHz
HDD: HP MX920 NVMe 1 TB \ 1TB 7200rpm
Undervolting (XTU): -130mV (probably could have gone lower, seeing CPU thermal throttle around 1 minute into Prime95 stress down to 3.2GHz but not really during the 3DMark benches)

PSU - Not really hotter than any other supply I've used on a gaming rig (warm to the touch). Brick is a Chicony 180W...

CinebenchR15 (CPU): 1243cb
TimeSpy: 7587, Graphics: 7787 , CPU: 6628
FireStrike: 17057 , Graphics: 19772 , Physics: 16611
FireStrike w/ +300MHz / +600 MHz OC GPU: 17080\19833\16637

Thermals are solid! Prime95 CPU stress test cracked out around 86C before the fans kick in and it climbed back down, in 3D Mark I don't think it cracked above 79, GPU I was getting 60C maximum (OC'd), which I am not sure that is right. I was looking at the 'GPU Temperature' in HWInfo under the NVidia card, so I dunno. I was also on a cooling pad (fan not on) for extra ventilation under the laptop. All these tests were on Auto Fan...

Fans are kinda loud at full load, but barely noticeable under web browsing.

Keyboard layouts on laptops always trip me up for a bit, but the keyboard is solid/spaced well and the touchpad is really smooth. Not hot to the touch, a bit warm maybe after running benches for like an hour.
No per key lighting though, but I don't really care about that stuff anyway.

Overall I would call this laptop a steal for what others are charging in terms of performance.

 

I probably should of highlighted it in bold in my last post but I was comparing GenTech 7ms vs RJTech 3ms.

Edit: Nevermind
The P970's 17.3" screen is 3ms and the P960 is 7ms (16.1"). Sorry for the confusion these models were just added to RJTech, Gentech and Amazon!

Update: rtx 2070 max-q sale
GentechPc is selling the P970EF for same price as a P960EF as a promotion! Still has free thermal upgrades.

Also Amazon's 16.1" ProStar P960EF or Sager NP8962 ($50 price drop) is $1679

 

The website is correct and this means optimus basically. See my correction below.

I've been reading too many spec pages. Apologies, for the wrong information people as a correction hardware switching is not available. The internal display is hard wired to the igp so will always be running under optimus (hence no g-sync).

 

Thanks for double checking!

 

The 2080MQ's chip was originally designed to use a lot more power. Maybe it runs cool because it's not working nearly has hard as originally designed? I haven't cross-referenced other 2080MQ reviews for their thermals.

Glad you like the laptop and yes I'd say this line is definitely both a bargain and a quality machine!

 

Sorry I missed the 3ms/7ms. I noticed XoticPC and Sager are also currently selling their P970EFs for the same price as their P960EFs, though nobody else has a penny repaste. I don't mind repasting myself, but if it's that cheap . . . It's GenTech's penny 30-day dead pixel warranty that has me most interested. I think every boutique should have a 30-day dead pixel warranty by default - nobody likes the thought of having to constantly notice a black or white dot on their high-end machine.

This is a really tough call. The P970Ex is thinner, but a half-inch wider and about the same weight as my P650SG. The P960Ex is a half-inch narrower and a full pound lighter than my laptop. I travel a ton which is why I'd prefer the smaller one, but I always game on a desk so that 17.3" screen I never thought I'd see again (I used to carry a monster Dell 17") would be really nice in the hotel room.

On top of that I'm still hoping to see 2060 vs. 2070MQ benchmarks. Right now in my cart at GenTech I have the 16.1" 2060 and the 17.3" 2070MQ and the difference is only $115 ( edit - $200, I had an extra AC adapter selected on the 16.1"). I'm also thinking of going with Xotic and having them paint the lid a pretty blue color. Life is hard.

 

Do you have the option to measure noise levels? I am a bit torn off by last year's models noise level under load to be honest. Did they improve cooling and fans (in case you have a reference point)?

 

I believe there are some people that have successfully flashed the bios on the RTX GPUs to 115W TDP levels, but the concern seems to be that the voltage regulators cant handle the power and will likely cause a failure... So I will probably just keep my setup as is although there is definitely overhead in terms of cooling.
For reference, the GS65 and Aero laptops seem to be pulling much higher numbers from all the tests I have seen. I am not sure about the Razer, but the cooling setup on the Sager units seem to be superior even if it makes the laptop a smidge larger.

 

I don't have any way of measuring reliably measuring the noise levels.
I will say that I have my work laptop next to me (Dell Latitude 7480) that seems to have it's fans on full blast and the Sager unit on the other side of me thats been going through installations for the past 4 hours with barely a whisper. Granted its not a great comparison, but I feel like the noise levels only really get bad during gaming or load tests. The former of which I will probably be wearing headphones and not even notice.

The RTX 2060 review that was posted on here a while back did some noise level checks (start 5:26):


Compared to the new Aero 15 (start 10:26):

 

Yeah when I compare the EF to ED on Amazon it’s only a $150 difference. But going to 2080mq is $500+ over the 2070mq. The 2070mq is more of a bargain overall.

I’m a little worried about the P970 at it’s current configuration. Where does it fit in at 5.5lb (barebones) and 17.3”? The fact is you can get a full RTX 2070 at 5.75lb (with mechanical drive) with the MSI GE75. And the TongFang (Mech-17) is 5.25lbs with full RTX 2070. So what is the advantage of the p970 other than getting an expensive 2080mq?” I would pick the 2070mq over a 2060 every time because of the 2 extra GB of vram as long as the price is reasonable.

 

I saw JRey flashed his GS65 bios to a 90w Max-q. I don’t know how well the results showed yet.

The P960/P970 comes with a FlexiCharger. I don’t know much about this other than it let’s you adjust at what full percentage to begin micro charging the battery. This might be hard set in the bios. Potentially this may limit using a 230w psu if the current 180w is locked in with firmware. I can only speculate at this point.

 

The initial results look good. I suspect you could push the GPU a little more if it’s not being power limited. Some get better results dialing back the cpu when the gpu is fully utilized.

When you get a chance can you run the SteamVR Performance test?

There are two 2080mq machines with 32GB of: Msi GS75 and Acer Preditor Triton 500 that has some benchmarks on notebookcheck as a point of reference.

https://www.notebookcheck.net/NVIDIA-GeForce-RTX-2080-Max-Q-Graphics-Card.386276.0.html

 

I think his performance gains going from 80 to 90W weren't all that great, something like 90W BIOS + OC was 7 to 13% more perf over stock 80W. So he reverted to his stock 80W BIOS. https://www.theeverydayenthusiast.com/home/comparison-80w-vs-90w-2080-max-q

 

Its possible there are also board wide limits kicking in there.

 

Nothing overclocked on this run (still undervolted)...

SteamVR Test Results:
Avg Quality: 11
Frames Tested: 15253
Frames Below 90 fps: 0
Frames CPU Bound: 1

 

Nice! And thanks. That’s a top score for a top card. I hope the 2070mq scores high too.

 

Finally received my Slate 15 with 2080 Max-Q/P960EN (HWInfo states P9XXEN_EF_ED, so I'm now convinced we've all been posting in the wrong thread LOL).

General info:

• Monitor is a Chimei CMN1602 reported by HWInfo. My panel has a little bit of backlight bleed at the top left and left side, but it's barely noticeable during use.
• Specs: i7-8750H, 2080 Max-Q, Kryonaut on CPU+GPU no Fujipoly pads afaik, 16GB (2× 8GB) DDR4-2666 RAM from Essencore, 512 GB NVMe PCIE SSD (Manufacturer unknown), no secondary storage at the moment (hoping to get a SATA 2.5" SSD in the future as SSD prices are falling, but otherwise I could also just pop in a 2 TB 5400 rpm or 1 TB 7200 rpm HDD).
  
• Per-key RGB relies on Command Center software.

General thoughts:

• Keyboard is pretty good, nice key travel and the palm rest feels solid to me. While the edge of the chassis facing me is not rounded, it is not a very sharp edge and is comfortable for my wrists during the time I've spent with it. Secondary functions of keys are lit so you can also see it in the dark when backlit. Overall happy with the keyboard
• Trackpad is very smooth and very pleasant to use. Not the biggest in size, but of decent size. Click buttons are good, enough has a soft but silent clickiness that provides good response and feedback. Fingerprint sensor under the glass works, not the fastest thing in the world but more than enough for Windows Hello login with a fingerprint.
• Power-in barrel is located such that the side air vent is blowing hot air at the power cable. Not sure how much this would obstruct airflow, but my initial guess is this position is less than optimal.
• Overall, I really like the chassis. Slim and cool to the touch. Feels sturdy and not much flex.

Modifications:

• Using Throttlestop, I undervolted the CPU core and cache by -145 mV, and the Intel GPU by -75 mV. Increased 6-core max boost to 4.1 GHz. Seems stable so far after running through various benchmarks.
  
• Using MSI Afterburner, I overclocked the GPU core clock by +100 MHz and left the memory frequency untouched. This a much more modest overclock compared to @ChebyshevKev 's +300 MHz/+600 MHz. Even at +120 MHz/+100 MHz, I was getting crashes in certain benchmarks, so I settled for just +100 MHz for the core. However, I have to say my stock performance using the latest drivers, at least in Fire Strike Graphics, was already pretty good at >20000 score. So maybe I got a GPU that was already near its limits when at stock.
• So far after running benchmarks, even overclocked GPU temp has not exceeded 63 °C/145 °F reported by HWMonitor and MSI Afterburner. On stock CPU, temps were frequently reaching the mid 90s. After undervolting, I'm seeing only a modest improvement in thermals with max of about 90 °C. Will be going forward with the stated CPU UV and GPU OC for the next few days and will report any abnormalities. I might also try for a Conductonaut upgrade but that would be a project for the future.

Benchmarks:

• Time Spy
  • Stock: 7631
  • UV+OC: 8083
  • Comparison
• Fire Strike
  • Stock: 16163
  • UV+OC: 17792
  • Comparison
• Fire Strike Graphics
  • Stock: 20216
    
  • UV+OC: 21343
• Shadow of the Tomb Raider, DX12, Highest preset, 1920×1080
  • Stock: ~74 FPS
    
  • UV+OC: ~86 FPS
• Middle-earth Shadow of War, Ultra preset, 1920×1080, Dynamic resolution off
  • Stock: ~97 FPS
    
  • UV+OC: ~104 FPS
• Forza Horizon 4, Ultra preset, 1920×1080
  • Stock: ~109 FPS
    
  • UV+OC: ~115 FPS
• Final Fantasy XIV: Stormblood, Maximum preset, 1920×1080
  • Stock: 13819, Avg 95.6 FPS
    
  • UV+OC: 13872, Avg 100.2 FPS
• Final Fantasy XV, High, 1920×1080
  • Stock: 7957
  • UV+OC: 8015
• Dragon Age Inquisition, Ultra preset, 1920×1080
  • Stock: Avg 97.4 FPS, Min 66.6 FPS
    
  • UV+OC: Avg 101.3 FPS, Min 73.1 FPS
• SteamVR Test Results (UV+OC settings)
  • Avg Quality: 11
  • Frames Tested: 15936
  • Frames Below 90 fps: 0
  • Frames CPU Bound: 0

 

Nice mini review Sodalitas.
How loud do the fans get when gaming , auto fans and max fans.
I hate excessively loud fans.

 

I second the above question. I would also be curious to know how the fans are at idle, and what the battery life is like. I don't mind if you don't want to do a rigorous test, but what are the ranges you would estimate?

 

For battery tests, I haven't had the time to use the laptop that much off the power plug, so I can't comment much for now.

I don't have a sound meter, so I don't have hard numbers to report. What I can do is compare them to ambient sounds.

Regarding fans and noise:
While browsing/Netflix/standard office tasks, the laptop is less audible than an air-conditioning system maintaining room temperature at 25 °C (outside temps ~30-32 °C). So if you're not bothered by the sound of air streaming out of air-conditioning systems, the laptop on these tasks will not bother you at all.

While gaming/benchmarking, the fans are definitely audible. If you watch the video linked below, it should give you a relatively good idea of what the laptop sounds like on load (52-55 dB), it starts at around 5:50. For a gaming laptop of this class, I think these noise levels are acceptable, but this really boils down to individual tolerance levels. It's not as loud as a hair dryer or vacuum, but it's loud enough that it masks the sound of me typing on the keyboard.

 

@Sodalitas Time Spy 8083 is awesome! Nice review and thanks for SteamVR score! How does a 16.1” display look for gaming and general work? I love the profile coming from a MacBook Pro as a daily driver. As for the right angle power cord I guess you can flip it forward to free the vents. That might block USB ports? Maybe there is a straight barrel extension that can be had or made.

Btw Jarrod’s Tech review is coming soon. I hear he has the P960ED with RTX 2060 and will receive later on the 17.3” P970EF & P970EN! No eta yet as he reviews lots of hardware.

Edit 1st review is in now 2060 version

 

Update $19.99
This adapter may prove useful for VR!

The Smallest USB C Hub with HDMI and USB 3.0, USB C HDMI 4k Multiport Adapter, Compatible MacBook Pro 2018/2017, MacBook Air 2018, ChromeBook, Surface Go and More USB-C Devices.

 

Hi Sodalitas, how many nvme pcie slot does the slate-15 have?

 

The 16.1" screen feels good to work on. My previous daily driver was an Aftershock X15S (Clevo P150SM iirc), which had a 15.6" screen. Basically, I'm getting a bit more screen for roughly the same footprint. I have no complaints about that . As for the power cable issue, it's not completely blocking the air vents so it's fine, I'm probably just nitpicking at that point.

[EDIT: removed previous statement about 1x M.2 and 1x 2.5"] Storage is 2x M.2 slots, 1x 2.5" slot. My apologies for the wrong information provided previously!

Also another video about this laptop albeit with a 2060.

 

I know.. this is really the wrong thread..... BUTT....

MAN! You got some great numbers and have inspired me to tweak my setup a bit further. I tried to document my thermal/clock info via HWinfo to give a bigger picture of what is going on. To me it looks like the 2080MQ has a bit more potential as a card than what is currently being utilized by the different benchmarks. That is not to say that this thing isn't a BEAST. This thing runs laps around my desktop w/ a GTX 1070 and liquid cooled i5 7500k and will replace it tomorrow once I get some proper USB hubs.

But anyway:
I think +300 was not only bold, but dumb - I have been tweaking my system over the last few days and I found out that I was actually undervolting too low - oh well... I have upped my voltage levels to -120mV and don't have any problems running the worst of the worst (Prime95 + FFXV). FFXV actually was the only thing that would crash my system, but it really makes no huge difference... My CPU temps are still under 80 during games and GPU has difficulty reaching above 62C.

SO: New Setup! (Thermals refer to gaming benches only, no stress tests)

Not Your Fault:

• Environment: It's Texas winter and I have a window open ~65F \ 18C
• Factory Repaste: Kryonaut on GPU + CPU w/ Fujipoly thermal pads on other components.
• Laptop Propped up on mesh cooling pad to increase airflow under device - no fan on

Tweaks:

• Undervolt (XTU): -120 mV
• GPU OC (Afterburner): +100 MHz GPU / 0 MHz RAM

Stats:

• GPU Highest Sustained Frequency: ~1900 MHz (1875 - 1920)
• GPU Thermals: 64C Max
• CPU High Sustained Freq: 3.89 GHz
• CPU Thermals: 74C Max (Call it 70C average)

Benchmarks:

TimeSpy: (GPU Clock all over the place! 1725 - 1395)

• Total: 7800
• GPU: 8037
• CPU: 6685

Fire Strike: (GPU Clock ~1500 MHz)

• Total: 17206
• GPU: 20357
• Physics: 16604

Forza Horizon 4 Ultra Preset: (GPU Clock sustained @ ~1900 MHz)

• CPU Simulation Avg: 162.9 FPS
• CPU Render Avg: 130.4 FPS
• GPU Avg: 133.6 FPS

Spoiler

FFXV Highest: (GPU Clock sustained @ ~1550 MHz - Boost at start 1965 MHz)

• Score: 8382

Shadow of The Tomb Raider Highest Preset: (GPU Cluck sustained @ ~1600 MHz)

• Avg FPS: 82

Spoiler

Middle-earth Shadow of War: (GPU Clock - 1935 MHz runs @ ~30sec, ~1500 MHz @ ~90 sec)

• Avg FPS: 100

Spoiler

 

VR requires a direct link to the gpu over HDMI.

 

One of the USB supports dp 1.3 over type-c

 

Didn’t someone get the 2070 version?

 

This might be cool to pair with P960 series.

16” portable screens.


View attachment 170545

View attachment 170546

View attachment 170547

 

Review of the RTX 2060

 

Seems a rather well rounded laptop. I am loving the thermals.
He states that there is no way of stopping the power throttling. Is that true?

 

The power targets cant be raised, no.

 

Is that something that can be changed with a future bios update? And if so, is that likely?

 

Anyone experiencing 25W TDP limit on the CPU with GPU load over time? As in Jarrod’s Review of the 2060?

Edit: for the 2080mq I don’t think so since as sodalitas Slate 15 cpu temps are way higher in the 90’s with a repaste. Jarrod’s are insanely low!
View attachment 170557

 

Not officially and generally not advised with a thin and light machine.

 

Can anyone give me some insight?
I am heavily debating whether to get the P960 w/rtx2060 or the tongfang 17inch w/rtx2060.
Even with the heavy throttling the P960 does perform rather well no? The thermals are very low, which seems important for longevity and comfort.

I.e. why should I pick a P960?