*** Official Clevo P65xSA/SE/SG / Sager NP8650/51/52 Owner´s Lounge ***

Thanks. I'm aware of the XHCI controller, however all I have is a USB 3.0 flash drive to use which I had to use Rufus to load my Windows 7 ISO.

 

I have a stack of Lexar 8GB USB 2.0 drives that ran me a whole $4/pop that I specifically keep around to install various Windows (2 per release/edition, one for BIOS/MBR, one for uEFI/GPT) and various Linux distributions/versions. Never heard anyone say they "only" have an USB 3.0 drive. Heck, local superstores have a 4GB drives for under $10, and that's big enough to contain even the "Ultimate" edition of Windows 7.

But ... if the firmware is intelligent enough, it will recognize the Windows Pre-installation Environment (WinPE) loading the legacy "ehci" Hi-Speed driver, and prevent SuperSpeed mode from working, in absence of the full "xhci" driver. If not, then Windows 7 may choke, especially since there wasn't a good, "generic" XHCI driver implementation available at the time of Windows 7 SP1. If you're very lucky, SP1 has one of the few, supported XHCI drivers in it.

Microsoft has really "regressed" in the last 5 years on this. They used to release Service Packs and Service Releases many years, even after another OS release came out. But now they refused to release anything in the last 2 years for Windows 7, and that's likely going to continue as not only Windows 8.1 is out, but Windows 10 is coming. We "excused" them when they did the same with Vista, but now they are doing it again with Windows 7.

I.e., get used to it, Microsoft is going to force home consumers, and even business users, to change their OS when they buy new computers.
E.g., home consumers accept this every 24-36 months, but they are also trying to get accountants to accept business desktop PCs as, at max, a 36 month depreciation, even if IT departments hate it.

Spoiler

When Microsoft did release new SP/SRs, the installation media and other distribution could install on newer computers, or at least newer components (even if the underlying platform/mainboard was an issue), with updated drivers. Other than the "business" end (the long-standing Microsoft Solutions Provider strategy was to get businesses to upgrade every 2-3 years like home consumers), although it could also have to do with increased outsourcing and the "brain drain" of the '00s. They basically had to "reverse engineer" NT5.1/XP hence why compatibility was much better in NT6.1/7 than NT6.0/Vista.

Even the "Enterprise" Linux world does this, and now far better than Microsoft, as they release an "Update" -- including installation media -- every 6 months. In fact, they are very, very "fixed" in their cycle. I.e., you don't get "feature enhancements" between Updates, only as a new, integrated, regression-tested updated. I've seen a Microsoft update take out an entire, critical farm of MS SQL Servers at a customer just recently, something they couldn't run atop of VMware to rollback to a snapshot (which is why almost everyone runs Windows on top of VMware since the mid '00s). Only security fixes and critical bug fixes are released between updates. There are even options to stay on an old Update for 2 years after a new Update comes out.

E.g., Red Hat released 5.11 while not only 6, but even 7 is available, and 5 is nearly 8 years old now (and will be supported a minimum of 10, and extended to 13 although some "Desktop/Workstation" components will likely be dropped after 10). Each Red Hat Update, like SuSE AG does as well, includes a new set of "installation media" with newer, "backported" (e.g., RHEL5 is old, 2006-era kernel 2.6.18) drivers and the like. Of course some newer, underlying "mainboard" hardware just wont boot on old RHEL, just like XP or (similar time frame) Vista. But the add-on component drivers (e.g., LAN, WiFi, storage, etc...) are updated. Red Hat also still makes security updates available for 5.9 (Extended Update Support), which is unheard of in the Windows world. Red Hat commits itself to releasing updates, including newer, backported drivers, through Phase 2 (year 8) on RHEL5+.

But this really goes back to the economics of the situation, and predictions I made back in 2007, with Windows Vista's release, and the coming Server 2008.

Microsoft charges 1 price "up front." It's like paying a landlord for all your future rent when you move in. There's no incentive for the landlord to keep the place up. The "Enterprise" Linux vendors (Red Hat, SuSE AG, although SuSE is reducing its backporting and forcing rebasing more and more as they shrink in size) charge "by the year" for upkeep. You basically move in for "free" (upstream Linux), as the "community" -- not a commercial vendor -- develops and releases the software. But after a year, when the developers have moved on, a company like Red Hat or SuSE AG comes in and says, "if you don't want to move with the developers, pay us and we'll upkeep your old, favorite digs." Better yet, if you don't like your landlord, you can "always move."

So it doesn't surprise me that this is happening. This is also why Microsoft is pushing hard to get everyone to a "subscription-based" revenue, from "Software Assurance" to "Office 365" (which isn't just about on-line). In Microsoft's defense, this should pay for the extensive "sustaining engineering" required to maintain multiple Windows versions. Of course, it also requires Microsoft not to play games. E.g., you don't pay for RHEL5 with Red Hat, you pay for RHEL and your "subscription" entitles you to any "current" release (5, 6 and 7). Of course, the Linux world gets the Upstream "for free," so the costly R&D that Microsoft has to do is removed.

I.e., even if one argues that Red Hat is the leading contributor to the kernel, core libraries, major desktop components, etc..., it's still -- at best -- only expending engineering resources on 10% of the major Linux components. That's why Red Hat can only charge for about 10% of its userbase, as the other 90% are using "free" redistributions of its heavy focus, from CentOS (which has 3x as many installations as RHEL on Internet Servers, let alone Workstations) to its upstream Fedora (the direct Red Hat Linux lineage -- literally "cheaper" to still develop but "give it away" than try to "charge" and support it). Red Hat is no longer just a Linux company, and is steadily becoming an infrastructure and middleware software company, where the OS is just a common commodity.

Again, the economics here are very, very important. Microsoft loses a lot of money in the desktop area, and it is subsidized by servers. Even Mark Shuttleworth and Canonical lose a lot of money subsidizing Dell and others (even if just support, although at one point Dell was asking Red Hat to pay Dell -- yes, pay Dell to ship its OS -- $5 per Linux system, in addition to free support) to bundle Ubuntu. So ... again, don't expect Microsoft to be releasing an updated installer for Windows 7.

Unless, of course, most consumers were willing to pay Microsoft $25/year to support the sustaining engineering of older, Windows versions. Most consumers will not for their OS, although Microsoft is pushing things like Office 365 hard for a reason.

 

I'll most likely ask a friend for a 2.0 device since I don't want to spend money on something I will rarely use. I have a bunch of 2.0 devices around my parents' house, but they're impossible to find. I'll be sure to update the thread when I receive the laptop from XoticPC. Does anyone know if the NP8651 has BIOS settings that can disable XHCI?

 

The main problems come from ..artefacts, do you have any in games like crysis 3, Dragon age, Far cry 4, BF4 ?
the 970/980m can be overclocked quite heavily that's for sure regarding temps and stuff, but artefacts are definitely the main problem here ^^

 

And that's just the temporary issue.

Unintentional and related non-designed, but resulting transconductance, among other results that lead to temporary and permanent damage, over-clocking and, even more so, over-volting does to an IC, especially long-term. Engineers do their best to design stuff that lasts, or at least make a benefit-cost risk analysis, when it comes to everything.

I.e., why it's a specific clock under specific tolerances in a specific range, etc...

Most "enthusiasts" might not care since they will only use their video card for 12-18 months before the replace it. Of course, there's still the warranty aspect, especially in a notebook. Being on the engineering side, there's a reason why I never recommend over-clocking and, even more so, over-volting.

It's not always about companies preventing people from using their hardware and getting them to pay more for less, but engineers actually and honestly trying to keep consumers from using (abusing) products in ways it was never designed to handle, especially not long-term.

Virtually every engineering decision is a support decision. If an unlocked or engineering release is made available, suddenly an OEM experiences of, in the best case, bad reviews of issues, artifacts, etc... and, worst case, returned video cards.

Now that said ...

I agree an OEM should have an "enthusiast" program, not just OEM ones, to encourage testing and use of unsupported firmware and options. It works in their favor to do so.

Of course, how many times have we seen "enthusiasts" not know what they are doing, then make a warranty claim? Which is why most "enthusiasts" wouldn't accept a program, which includes a waiver that basically renders their warranty useless in many cases.

However ... it would be nice if an "enthusiast" could register and then "opt-in" to receive engineering hardware for testing, including paying shipping, especially if they can prove they have bought many OEM products, proving to be a "loyal" customer. In the "worst case," the enthusiast destroys an engineering piece of hardware, which they would eventually ship back any way (just early now).

But it's those type of complexities, legal and logistical details, that keep many "enthusiast" programs from being within reach of the "common enthusiast," and more to the handful of review sites.

 

So ... you don't want to spend $5 on a recovery solution to support your $2,000 notebook? What if your installation craps out while you are remote and don't have an easily accessible system to create more media? It's worth $5. Even if you have a backup of your system, you need a way to get Windows booting again.

E.g.., I keep any re-installation USB keys for a system with me in my notebook bag. In the case of the Windows USB, I also include a driver folder (saves a lot of time, especially if the LAN/WiFi didn't work out-of-the-box) and key software (e.g., 7-Zip, Firefox, LibreOffice, PuTTY, etc...). Time is money.

I also backup at least every other night (basically before I hit the sack in a hotel) to a CineRAID dual-2.5" bay USB 3.0 drive enclosure (I purchased several on-sale for $25/each) with dual 2.5" 2TB Samsung 5400rpm drives in RAID-1 (don't use SSDs, they suck up too much power, stick with 2.5" platters and you only need 1A over USB) in a simple, but effective, padded case (the drive never leaves the case, only the cables stick out of the short end near the zipper end). I always either carry or leave it separate from my notebook (e.g., in my roller or check-in with clothes on the plane) so there's no chance I'll lose my data when I'm on-the-road (e.g., external enclosure stays in bag in hotel room, even if the computer is with me, or vice-versa, I carry it in a car or in a bag if I leave the computer at an office).

So ... excuse me for "harping" on this, possibly even reaching into the territory of "tearing down your argument to the point I'm being a jerk," but what is the issue for spending $5 when your normal "backup" costs -- which are also and far more expensive "redundant" costs you don't get much use out of -- should cost a lot more any way? It's comments like this that just make me shake my head when people do have that rare, but very unpredictable, "recovery event" (or often "non-recovery event" in their case). I don't do this to say "I'm right, you're wrong," but to really, really make you think if $5 isn't such a "cost" to save yourself from an unlikely, but still plausible, headache, always at the same, wrong, Murphy's Law time.

Still, it's up to you. I like to keep my re-installation USB keys with my notebook, as they are a drop-in-the-bucket compared to the additional, backup costs.

SIDE NOTE: I just sold my older Lenovo Thinkpad x220 Tablet and included the two (2) USB keys I used to re-install Windows 7 Professional x64 as well as a recent Fedora x86-64, including taking the time to update the drivers for the Lenovo on the Windows 7 USB key. That way the new owner has a way to recover his system. Cost me a whole $8 for the two (2) Lexar drives, and it would have been only $4 if he didn't buy it because I already had a dual-boot setup with Fedora (he bought it for Linux). I actually had a triple boot with Ubuntu, but removed it for him.

 

I think you are getting me wrong. I will end up with a USB drive one way or another. I'm saying it's not the best idea to buy a USB stick when there is a myriad of options in obtaining one for free. A lot of it depends on what the BIOS settings allow for XHCI and I won't know until I have the laptop in front of me.

 

Oh. I thought you meant you were just going to borrow it and then return it. Understand this happened with a friend of mine, after I told him to keep the device, but he left it on my desk. He didn't want to "buy" it even though I told him he could keep it for free.

Sure enough, 6 months later when, his notebook hard drive failed (a MLC NAND SSD no less -- part of the reason he "upgraded" the drive and re-installed "clean"), he was screaming at me to send him another device overnight. It's not that I don't mind helping people. I just want them to understand why some "redundant" things that are "rarely used" can be the most important "investments" one can make, money or not.

Hence why your "phrasing" triggered that exact same concern. I'm sorry if I misunderstood and my apologies.

Spoiler

In the case of my friend, as with many things in life, "no good deed goes unpunished."

I use that phrase because it's kinda an unofficial motto that's commonly throw about by anyone who has worked for Red Hat (or my colleagues at Canonical, the "Ubuntu guys," too) for at any time. HP is getting big in the "upstream first" and "never replace open with proprietary" attitude in the OpenStack world, like Canonical and Red Hat, and I'm seeing some of the same from people with proprietary vendors and their strategies in the OpenStack space.

 

Hi guys

I'm customizing this laptop and I'm wondering how necessary some of the options are:

- Notebook Cooler (Will I need one of these?)
- 30 Day No Dead Pixel Warranty (On any Sager Screen) vs the Standard Dead Pixel Policy
- Sager 3 Year Parts & LIFETIME Ltd Labor Warranty w/ Lifetime 24/7 DOMESTIC Customer Support - Special! (SKU - WTY097) ( + 149 ) [Seems like a good deal but I'm not sure]

This is my first big purchase in a while and I don't wanna get burned

Also, would this laptop be fine for college? How is the battery life when doing non-intensive stuff?

Thanks in advance

 

Cooler is definitely not necessary. No dead pixel policy really depends on you but I wouldn't say it's necessary. Warranty is always good to have some peace of mind and it's not overly expensive considering the price of the laptop. Battery life is 3 to 4:30 depending on load and battery saving measures.

 

Hey guys, so I recently got a Eurocom M5 Pro with the 970m. However, I noticed that my CPU runs at an average temperature of 55 degrees Celsius; is this normal?

Secondly, I've been getting a few BSODs. The event log viewer shows Event 41 and Event 37. I googled it but there is a lot of information to take in; suggesting faulty PSU vs faulty motherboard. Any of you guys have an idea of what might actually be going on here?

I'd really appreciate some help. My laptop has shut down randomly 5 times in the last week. This is frustrating; might have to look into returning this thing.


Edit: Okay. So I turned my fans from custom (set to start fans at 60 'C) to automatic in the clevo power management software accessible via Fn+Esc. According to intel xtu, my temps are now between 37 ' C and 40'C. So that is better.

Dang it; another Error Event 37 (7). Error ID: 0x000001d2. I have no clue what is going on; this is the second time it crashed on me today.

 

Unless the PSU gives power spikes it's not likely it's the PSU, try hooking up a cheaper smaller 19v PSU for a while, they're easy to find with this connector and you might already have one from an older laptop. Mind you to not exceed that PSU's capacity, so no gaming or very CPU intensive tasks for too long.
If that doesn't fix it then I'd bite the bullet and re-install windows using solely standard CD drivers, no external updates you may have found somewhere.
Also scrutinize if you have any software installed that might interfere with normal laptop use.
Even simple windows gadgets can crew things up sometimes.

If your vanilla system still has BSOD's then at least you can tell your reseller what you've done to troubleshoot and you know it's probably not something you could've fixed in a few hours yourself.

On my desktop I once got a whole array of IRQ BSOD's and could never figure out what the cause was. A reinstall and using standard drivers for safety fixed it. It's still a mystery, but at least it doesn't bother me.

 

What were you doing when the PC crashed? Something CPU intensive?

 

It only crashes when I'm watching videos; it could be on youtube or liveleak or any other site. It's quite an issue. I'm going to reset my system back to factory settings. Hopefully that fixes the issues.

 

You mean this: http://forum.notebookreview.com/sag...51-np8652-owner-s-lounge-328.html#post9875291

I'm not so interested in the overall score as I am in the graphics score, which is more representative of what the GPU can accomplish. The modded vBIOS won't help improve your video RAM overclocking, and you should be able to find that limit right now. Just the core clock is what you need the modded vBIOS for.

Yes, this. However, not all games play friendly with the 4k resolution even if you do set it to a lower one.

 

Hi, can you tell me if the laptop includes M.2 fixing screws support to lock in place SSDs if bought after market (for example I see on Amazon that SSDs sold does not includes the fixing support screw)?

Thanks

 

Main problem for me now is that my memory was only Ocing by 200MHz over the boost memory clock although I set it to +400MHz (I think it's the strange way NVIDIA OC's).. No issues with artifcating or anything.. I want to push the core and the memory up together to find the stable point.. Prema has asked me to email him and he will do something.. He's very busy now but it should be like 2-3 mins work for someone like him to unlock the vBIOS... Let's see how it goes.. I would unlock the vBIOS myself if I had the skill but sadly there's no guide to that out there that I could even follow...

 

It has two one for each m.2 slot

 

It does according to the ProStar review. I have yet to receive mine so I can't comment for sure.

 

Could someone point me in the right direction for overclocking the 970m? Using Nvidia Inspector (v1.9.7.3), I'm not getting any options for increasing the GPU clock speed under Performance Level [3] (see attached screenshot).
It's entirely possible I'm missing something here. Is there a handy tutorial floating around for Nvidia Inspector?

 

Driver 347.09 has no overclocking support....

 

Ah, I see. Thanks for the info!
Reverted to v344.56 and all is well.

 

344.75 is better

 

Not entirely accurate, search for Maxwell tweaker...
But Prema's unlocks it way more.

 

Would anyone be kind enough to upload the expanded manual that comes with the laptop? I'd like to give it a read prior to receiving the notebook.

 

the manuals are linked in the first post of this thread

 

Oops. Thanks!

 

Hi again!
I watched the eurocom storage video and the guy says that you basically just slide it in. But he also goes on to say that you have to screw it down. I looked at my SSD and the frame which holds it in the laptop in the video and it seems to me like it screws in from the sides. Are the screws provided with a laptop? Or do I have to fetch my own. Do I even need to screw it in?
Cheers,

 

I had BSOD problems playing video as well in the recent past on a dell laptop with a nvidia dgpu. I actually thought it was motherboard and still had the issue after replacing only to find out it was the nvidia driver. I confirmed by turning off hardware acceleration in chrome's advanced settings to not let it use the gpu for decode and no more problems! I can't tell you which driver version as a few months have passed but I only had BSODs on video within the browser (or maybe I only watched video via the browser).

I can also confirm the latest nvidia driver had major issues on my htpc and had to rollback the driver as video was pixelated/choppy/locking up.

Going back to the clevo staged/shipped drivers is a very good idea.. hopefully you can nail down the culprit.

 

Screws should be provided for every storage drive.

 

The "SATA connector edge" is nothing like a "DIMM" or "PCIe Card," let alone nothing like an angled SO-DIMM. So I wouldn't use that phrasing, especially considering it is safe, electrically and transient-wise. I.e., the only reason I'm being "anal" on this, because it's important to point out that one can "safely hot-plug" a SATA, even when a system is powered on. The same is not true of DIMMs, PCIe, etc... (although some high-end servers are designed prevent a transient, but it's not commodity like SATA).

That said, for the OP's knowledge ...

SATA finally "standardized" a consumer-grade "connector edge" so you can just "plug-in" to a board, dock, etc..., again, even when the system is powered on.

The Wikipedia article's section shows the location of this edge (7-pin data, 15-pin power) for both 2.5" and 3.5" ...
- Serial ATA - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The connector is in the same place, which allows one to just "slide" the SATA into these card edges which should exist in notebooks. Sometimes there is an "adapter" or other "standoff," but in the case of most modern notebooks, they don't use them. It's literally a "slide back into the connector edge" (male on drive, female on board) and secure (possibly with screws, depending on the OEM's design).

The only reason we still have SATA "cables" is for assembled PC boxes so the drives can be connected at a distance from a mainboard, let alone supplied by a separate power supply. But in smaller form-factor systems, RAID arrays, etc..., as well as notebook computers, the board has a "connector edge" with both the data and power for SATA (or Serial Attached SCSI, SAS, for that matter).

All 2.5" storage devices, regardless if they are 12-15mm (4-6 platter or expensive SLC NAND SSD "enterprise" drives), 9.5mm (typical, consumer 2-3 platter height), 7mm (typical NAND MLC SSD and newer 1-2 platter height -- also used in the P650) or even the latest 5mm thin versions (less common NAND SSD and new, 1 platter designs), should have holes both on the sides and underneath. That way they can be secured either from the side or underneath the drive. Some notebooks provide "caddies" or other "outer shells" for a 2.5" that screw or lock down the drive, so you can slide it in.

But the connector edge at the "back left" of the drive is always in the exact same position. Hit any lot of videos out there on upgrading various notebook computers to NAND SSD drives and you'll see the various solutions used by various OEMs to secure the drive, while the connector edge always "slides back" into the bay. In a few, older designs, sometimes an adapter was used, so it might "slide down" as the adapter converts the edge 90 degrees, but they are rare today.

 

You lost me at "Chrome." I.e., I won't consider "Chrome" a good "test." Google forks a lot of codebases and many blocks are very stagnant. They've been guilty of calling old, deprecated APIs in Chrome many times. But that's another discussion.

But yes, always consider the GPU-driver combination overall. I just wouldn't use Chrome as a test.

 

I've ordered the Crucial Mx100, and it doesn't seem to come with any. Does that mean it doesn't need to be screwed in?

 

Thank for the great detail! Good to add to the knowledge bank! The sager np8651 seems to be pretty simplistic in installation. I just need to figure out whether I need to screw it in. Or buy some screws so that I can.

Cheers

 

Let me put it this way.. I would BSOD when playing video in Chrome. Disabling hardware acceleration stopped the BSODs. It may indeed be calling old API's but I'm just relaying what I did to troubleshoot and confirm issues with gpu decode crashes. Feel free to decompile and look through dependencies all you want.. I simply have no time or desire.

 

Finally!

 

Has anyone gotten the sharp 4k display on the np8652/p650sg? I just want to get an honest opinion before I drop the cash for the laptop.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Ask Cakefish

 

I ordered this machine on Tuesday through XoticPC, but the order didn't go through. Now that it is January, the complimentary IC thermal compound can't be added since it was a December special. Can anyone comment on the temp differences between stock and IC applications? I'm really frustrated as this is something I didn't want to do myself.

 

Help! My 8GB stock memory is under the keyboard.
I think we talked about this but where should I add an extra 8GB stick? under the keyboard as well? or just at the back plate?

 

Glad to see you got your machine today too!!

Put your other 8GB stick next to the one under the keyboard. Either both under keyboard or you can move both to the bottom. I left mine under the KB.

 

It was a long holiday eh? Yeah I was thinking about uploading the "laptop-in-the-car-fresh-from-ups" photo as well but eh, I wanna get home asap
Alright, thanks!

 

Almost a month to the day of waiting for this beast since the order! Must admit so far it was worth it. Fit and finish is fantastic. Got my 16GB of gskill cas9 running memtest as I type this. Looking good so far and hopefully OS load will commence shortly.

Enjoy!

 

I am sorry to hear if there were any issues with submitting the order. With IC Diamond applied we do see on average a 1-5C drop in temps. It is fairly easy to do if you're comfortable doing such things. There are also good places to see how to do it like here Application

 

Thanks Hutsady. I was able to talk it over with the Xoticpc phone rep.

 

Woke up in phase 5 today now I just hope they can ship it off today so I can play with this beast...
Also anyone test the killer 1525 vs the Intel 7265?

 

All i can say is that my 7265 works really great i reach my maximum theorical download speed all the time, in games no rubber-banding, lags or whatsoever .

 

Happy new year!

I have some high(ish) quality pictures to illustrate what the 3XS branding looks like on this model, that I took last year but haven't got around to uploading them yet. Will do soon!

Bluetooth still works in 2015. I think it's now safe to say it was faulty hardware that was causing the problem. It's been working without issue since the replacement arrived.

I've gradually been installing my vast Steam library one-by-one over these past few days. Even though I have most of the installation files backed up on an external drive, Steam still wants to download half of the games from scratch anyway because; reasons. I think I'll be able to have all games installed simultaneously thanks to the almost 2TB worth of storage in here. Such a luxury!

My verdict? It's a thumps up from me. Gorgeous screen. Haven't regretted getting it one bit.

Sent from my Nexus 5

 

Do you guys think it will be easy to find a replacement keyboard for these laptops? Like if you want to switch a layout for another

 

Has anyone who ordered FHD/980M from Mythlogic received theirs yet? Mine has been "in build queue" since the 25th, though I realize it's been a holiday week. I only today decided to finally pester them about it but haven't heard back yet. Just wondering if anyone here has made more progress.