**M980NU (X1/Commanche SLI/NP9850) Owners Thread**

They using find issues like this and delay release of a new model until they resolve them.

If they are found after release they work on them until they are resolved.

You will find that Sager DID delay release of this model because of video card stutter, and I even posted a video demonstrating it while others in Europe and elsewhere continued to report that they didn't see it and Sager was making the whole thing up. Some pretty nasty things were hurled our way (check earlier in this thread)

Well, Sager did resolve that issue and finally released the NP9850.

Without reading back, is this stuttering coming from Sager NP9850's or is it coming from other branded Clevo M9800NU units?

 

paladin44: Sager 9850 for me with the audio stuttering. Sometimes it's not so bad if I don't actually do anything, but I have a hard time accepting that simply selecting a browser window should be enough to make it stutter. =)

Sager in the past has always been pretty good to me with issues. I'm assuming the same will be the case here...I'm pretty sure they don't want to lose repeat customers who spend 2-4k on a laptop.

 

MonkD, did you buy it directly from Sager, or a reseller?

In any event have you contacted your vendor's support team about it?

 

Well I sure hope my machine doesn't suffer too badly from this issue. I will be picking up my brand new 9850 from Sager tomorrow. Do you guys think it could be a ram issue? How much ram do you have your machines? I got mine with 8gigs.

 

It's not going to be a ram issue.

 

paladin44: I bought it direct. I haven't actually contacted them about it since I found this thread first - I guess I tend to try and find solutions to things on my own too often. Once I saw that I wasn't completely alone I just got lazy. I'll fire off an email later and see what they say.

 

@MonkD

If you need any help with them just let me know

 

Isnt the hardware exactly the same? I actually dont know, I just thought it was. so i figured they both would suffer from the same issues

 

The hardware may be, but not the BIOS and firmware. The point is that Sager and Clevo fixed the video stuttering, but that was only after several thousand of the M980NU we sold elsewhere in the world.

 

is there a bios or firmware update to download that fixes it?

 

You would have to check with your vendor for a BIOS or firmware update.

 

Im really not trying to upset anyone but i have to point out that paladin44, your not making yourself look too good in this forum, your saying the stuttering is fixed even though there are lots of people with that problem, when you say it, i ask ok is there a download from sager or clevo of a bios or firmware to fix it and you say "you would have to ask you reseller".

on your website you advertise that your into the whole god thing and yet your responses make it seem as though you are lying to get a sale.

Im not sure what to make of that.

 

The audio stuttering,and video stuttering were, I believe, a seperate issue. Recent Nvidia drivers have reintroduced stuttering to some extent, but thats just because recent Nvidia drivers have been...so-so. (Actually Nvidia drivers seem to be the cause of the stuttering for the majority of people full stop!)

Im not trying to stand up for anyone, but I think he's refering to a seperate issue.

 

Whoa there mentalmike...what about anything I have said, or our website says, makes it seem like we are lying about anything?

You are an anonymous poster, new to the forum, and have not identified whether you even have a Sager laptop.

Further, if you read carefully I said that Sager did not release this model until they had a fix for the VIDEO stutter (which reading earlier in this thread would reveal).

 

To chime in he says ask a reseller because you can only get the bios's from resellers.

Clevo has the server locked down

any only THEIR reseller can check and give them that info.


TRY TO READ A LITTLE BEFORE FLAMING ANYONE AND BE 10000% SURE WHEN YOU TRY TO BRING OUR BELIEFS INTO IT !

 

There is a way around that if you know the filename

 

I don't see where Donald was lying (or even prevaricating) in any way, but the reason he does not simply point you to Sager's BIOS revision (which is actually publicly available) is because many Clevo OEMs (including Sager) have special OEM agreements with Microsoft that "key" their copies of Windows to their OEM BIOS. If the OEM who built your M980NU is one of them, the Sager BIOS would deactivate your copy of Windows unless and until you switched back to your own OEM's keyed BIOS.

It is the safest practice to always check with your own reseller for a solution first. If you are comfortable with the risk of messing up your Windows installation, you may certainly try the BIOS update on Sager's site, but we suggest that step AFTER checking with your own reseller for a lower-risk alternative.

 

No your website doesnt say anything, I meant it just sounded like you were saying there is not a problem and it has been fixed.

But talking with others, it seems there is still a problem, and yes some users came up with a temp fix, but thats not official.

As for the god thing i was refering to your website saying you serve him.

I dont mean to upset you or anyone, i was just saying it seemed like you were saying there is not a problem just so you could make a sell, I didnt mean to say you were lying. Im sorry about that.

As for saying ask your reseller, so you mean sager and or clevo has given a new bios or firmware to the resellers to fix the problem?

Basically thats all i was trying to figure out was if there has been an updated release,

 

Don't bring a personal belief into anything specially to insult

 

it was not meant as a insult, it was an observation into what it APPEARED to be to me, not what it might have actually been.

And saying people who believe in god don't lie is not an insult.

Im just trying to find out if there was truely a fix, because another reseller said there wasnt even a problem. so as for resellers im having a hard time beleiving some

Im truely sorry for offending anyone and im not saying Paladin is a liar. Im just asking the question.

it was wrong for me to mention the god issue from his website.

Again please forgive me and I promise to be more careful

Im truely sorry Paladin.

As for if i own one, I dont. thats why i've been trying so hard to get a straight answer, i want to buy one now, but if there is a problem then i will wait and get an Asus

 

Mental Mike you are not reading carefully.

Clearly Paladin was talking about the VIDEO stutter, while you are discussing the AUDIO stutter.

You are still arguing from that standpoint while apologizing for your insult.

Reboot and start again.

 

Thanks for setting me straight I do feel stupid. very sorry about that paladin

has there been a fix to the audio stutter.

 

mentalmike: As far as I'm aware those of us affected by the audio stutter are still looking for a solution though there is a partial fix that can help some if you look back a few pages. I think it was on 136 or something?

 

Ah, here it is: http://forum.notebookreview.com/showpost.php?p=5620969&postcount=1363

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but the VIDEO stutter was an issue with vibration caused by the drive bay when in use. I don't think the BIOS update fixed that but rather a little piece of foam.

 

No problem mentalmike...apology graciously given, and accepted.

I have checked with Sager and they tell me they have not had reports of audio stuttering, nor have our PowerNotebooks.com technicians. So, either Sager owners do not have the problem or they are not reporting it.

I have heard from our friends in the UK that some of their customers that are using Windows 7 are experiencing this issue, but that it is completely random and not affecting everyone. "Basically there is a stutter in the audio stream every time the GPUs either change clocks or check the GPU load to decide if they need to change - so if you listen to a CD, every 10 seconds or so there is a short static noise." It does appear to be nVIDIA driver related, and they are not so patiently waiting for nVIDIA to resolve the issue.

 

I'd wait for the i7 refresh. For an Sli notebook at least, a boost in processing power will add frames. And if you're willing to spend $3k on a notebook these days, you should only accept the best.

In its base config, the G73JH is one hell of a bargain however. Although it doesn't come close to Sli 280M, the 5870 still has the grunt to run the majority of games maxed at 1080p. Plus it's packed with dual 7200.4's, 8GB DDR3 RAM, and Blu-Ray... it really is a steal. I wouldn't waste the saved money on a 920XM though, the 720M is just fine paired with the single GPU.

 

Just a small update for the sound stutter issue.

Sager is not aware of the issue.

I'm uninstalled my 186.81 drivers and am using the generic vga adaptar that windows has built in and have no stuttering at all so if there was any remaining doubt where the issue may be stemming from the video card drivers are definite on the hit list.

I'm going to reinstall the drivers Sager shipped the machine with and see if the issue was present with those and also check to see if they have an updated driver than that on the cd the sent with the machine. If one of those drivers works I'd be pretty happy, although disappointed if there isn't a more real solution for down the road.

I'd hate to think I'm stuck on the driver updates directly from them as they do tend to update for a while...but then drop the drivers as the newer models come out.

Anyhow, I'll post the results and I'm going to pass the info on to Sager as well.

Anyone else got any news?

 

Ok, can someone please test this for me unless it's already known (if it is please let me know).

I turned off SLI and I have zero audio stuttering now playing mp3s. I'm using TechPowerUp GPU-Z to watch the clocks and they never go up...

With SLI enabled on in the nVidia control panel I could easily get the clocks to jump up much higher and it is when they go DOWN that the stutter occurs. I did not see this occur when they went up at all. An easy way to get them to jump in a desktop environment seemed to be going from Aero and then to a basic desktop and back.

Now that I'm running on one card I have zero issues.

 

Ok, so apparently with SLI disabled I can't get the clocks to adjust at all on the card that is being used. They are stuck at 583/950/450 and perhaps that is why there is zero stutter. But for some reason turning on SLI seems to make the clocks adjust (to manage the power I guess?) and it is that clock dropping that mirrors the exact moments of stuttering.

 

Ok, last update and I think I'm done with my limited ability to contribute considering my lack of understanding on the underlying technology.

If you are using GPU-Z it is only on the first card of the two 280m cards that has the clocks drop. The second card (which is the one which is used when SLI is disabled) never seems to drop the clock speeds.

So in summary:

My assumption is that it is the SLI mode that is causing the issue, and the issue will always occur when the first video card drops the clock speeds for some reason. The second card never seems to do this and also is the card that is defaulted to when SLI mode is disabled, hence the likely reason why there is no stutter without nVidia drivers (using just generic win7 drivers) or when you simply disable SLI.

Sooo...where does that leave us? (BTW, I've forwarded all this info to Sager in hopes that they'll have something to say or suggest.)

 

how do you disable SLI?

 

That's interesting MonkD, because I have a XXoDD XNi980nu (same model, different name) with a single GPU and still have major DPC latency issues in Win 7. I tracked it down to the nForce drivers rather than the videocard drivers. In Vista, no problems. In Win 7 without mobo-drivers, no problems. Install nForce in Win 7, all hell breaks loose.

Might be that my BIOS is just out-of-date and I'm not experiencing the same issue? XXODD does not seem to provide BIOS updates... yay.

 

isamu: Open up the nVidia control panel and then under the 3d Settings tab there is the Set SLI and PhysX configuration menu. In there you can disable SLI. Let me know if that does anything for your audio stutter.

Droniac: I'm far from a hardware expert these days so what I'm observing may only be related to something else entirely that is causing the root issue.

I wonder if it is possible that there are some .dlls or something that both the SLI video and your nforce mobo drivers use that are the real culprit? Though I also have an nforce board without SLI enabled I don't get the issue at all (at least not in an hour of testing - it could be simply rare?). I wonder if Sager used a different driver version or something?

 

Hi there,

To say I've painstakingly tested this issue out and tried various things would be an understatement, and unfortunately its not SLI causing the issues, it is still possible to get extreme stutter with only one card, or with SLI disabled, I also confirmed that if you removed the GPU drivers that this was dealt with, which Kobalt were able to replicate.

You've hit upon what appears to be the main cause of the issue, Nvidia GPU drivers and powermizer (dropping clocks and polling). This has been reported to Nvidia.

Droniac - I've heard older versions of the chipset raid/storage driver cause some issues on Win7. Head along to Sager, get some new drivers and then clean install them and see if that helps, or at least brings you to the same stage as us. What BIOS are you on?

 

Alexrose1uk: Thanks for popping in. I tried to read back a fair bit so I didn't regurgitate too much, but apparently I've missed some bits. Did you happen to post in here about your findings with the single GPU/disabled SLI?

If I made it sound like I meant SLI was the issue that was a mistake, but something that is being down while SLI is enabled is making the occurrence very frequent for me whereas with it disabled I couldn't get it to happen. Any tips on how to make it do so with SLI disabled would be great, I want to send them to Sager as well.

Oh, btw, did you notice it being one GPU that was causing the issue and do you know if it is normal for only one GPU to lower the clock speeds while the other remains at full clocks?

Thanks!

 

I definately posted about it SOMEWHERE on NBR, but I cant remember where, perhaps I only posted it in the M17x latency thread [the M17x uses the same chipset as the M980NU]? Can't remember haha

As soon as the Nvidia GPU driver is removed, the machine is perfect, but thats just as useless as being forced to use an SLI machine with SLI off.

Both cards are MEANT to downclock, rather than just one, the powermizer switch programme going about only seems to disable one GPU rather than both. I also noticed a tie between downclocking on either card and the stuttering, if you watch the DPC latency checker there's a double stutter when a card clocks to lowest clocks for example

SLI Enabled, Prefer Maximum Performance - DPC latency spikes
SLI Enabled, Prefer Maximum Performance, one GTX280m disabled in device manager - NO LATENCY SPIKES [basically this confuses the system and forces it to stop using Nvidia display drivers, and it reverts to standard VGA, because it cant understand the Nvidia drivers stuck in SLI mode, but only 1 GPU being present, so discards the NV drivers until the second GPU is re-enabled in device manager].
SLI Disabled, Prefer Maximum Performance - DPC latency spikes
SLI Disabled, Prefer Maximum Performance, unused GTX280m disabled in device manager - DPC Latency Spikes


I found that even with SLI disabled and prefer maximum performance set, powermizer still kept up, rather than disabling, so I still got the spikes.

Oh, I also put some of my findings in this thread:
http://www.kobaltcomputers.co.uk/fo...omanche-SLI-Audio-and-Hotkey-driver-available

Its only 14 pages so you might find some of the info in there useful
Also ignore stutter guide v1, it's v2, the version posted in this thread and near the end of that one, that 98% works

 

Thanks for the updates. I'll take a look at that thread. Do you know if the 186. drivers had powermizer built in even though you can't access it from the nvidia control panel? I mentioned before that I'm stuck using them (Sager is using 186.67 I believe in their driver packs for win7 64bit) because the latest drivers don't properly handle secondary displays.

 

Yes they did use powermizer, some drivers work better than others with it though haha.

 

Just finished the other thread. Some good info in there. I'm glad you saw the new dox drivers, I tried those too, but unfortunately the secondary display not being detected still crept in those for me (I'm going to have to tackle that one sometime soon I suppose.)

Only thing left I can think of with these older 186.x drivers is to try the rest of your solution (which I haven't yet...I'm hoping some news of a fix comes out before I get to that point as I don't want to have to try and undo anything later! =). Anyhow, hopefully nvidia gets back to Kobalt soon and hopefully whatever they come up with can be easily applied to us Sager users' machines as well.

Blah, the Comanche has WUXGA? *grumble*

 

Eh? What's the problem with this?

 

BTW, did you ever try this powermizer switch? Some guys in the thread mentioned it fixed their audio stutter (as it turns it off. A tradeoff for power/heat I suppose, but I'm assuming it's not different than what your fix is doing, right?)

http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=273276

 

theriko: nothing wrong with it. I'm jealous as I ended up going with the full hd (16:9 instead of the 16:10) - I thought I wouldn't mind...but I do. Thankfully at home I usually plug up to my 28inch monitor (which does 16:10) anyhow so it doesn't matter too often.

 

CLean install of drivers doesn't help. One thing I haven't tried is not overwriting Windows default storage drivers however, might give that a go tonight.

BIOS revision: 01.06.80

 

Yes, it doesnt work. It only stops powermizer on ONE card. Same issue I had with Dox's option to disable powermizer, for whatever reason, it doesnt correctly stop a full SLI setup.

Heat is not exactly excessive either; I mean my laptop idles with the GPUs at less than 50, most of my decent desktop GPUs have idled around there too!

RE: WUXGA unfortunately my sig had a typo left over from my M17. I too prefer 1920x1200, but the Comanche SLI/M980NU is only provided in 16:9.

 

How bizarre, I've not even seen that BIOS revision, and it wasnt mentioned on the change log I've read for M980NU bios changes. It definately says 1.06.80 when you look from BIOS? (F2 at bootup).

 

Oh brilliant, that was stupid. I was looking in the wrong place entirely.

BIOS revision (from BIOS) : 1.0.01
KBM/EC revision: 1.0.02

Undoubtedly outdated.

 

Haha, if thats the case then yes you are definately behind, I would contact your supplier about a BIOS update, or ask if they will let you use the sager one.

PS. Be warned I understand you need to flash the EC bios BEFORE you flash the main BIOS, or you can brick your system

Here's the change log:

Not sure what was in .02/.03 if they were ever released publically.

 

Windows 7 is killing me because now my MP3s stutter/skip.

 

Alexrose1uk,

I followed all your steps, but then I had DPC Latency spikes off the charts so I repeated step 26 and the skips stopped. I think you are on to something here!

Thanks for the tip