Initial Impressions on Sager NP8170

I plan on doing a full review of this massive beast of a laptop, but since I've only had it a few hours I'll start with my initial impressions while I let it load the gazillion updates from Microsoft.

First of all, hats off to all the resellers here. I couldn't have asked for a better group of sales staff to help me out. After soliciting a few quotes, it came down to XoticPC and LPC Digital. Kudos espeically to "babyhemi" (aka Larry) from LPC Digital. Despite my numerous requests for changes to my quote he complied very profesionally and courteously and promptly. Very helpful individual on these forums as well. Mythlogic was also a contender, primarily because they are a local outfit, and less than an hour from my house. Unfortunately taxes are what got the best of me. As much as I'd like to support a local store, with this significant purchase, $130+ in taxes, especially when you're +$500 over budget already can kill the idea.

Ultimately I ended up going with XoticPC primarily because they were where I purchased my original Sager from (NP8662) that this NP8170 is replacing. Part of that decision was also their outstanding history of support as well as the fact that I dealt with them in the past.

First of all, yes my machine is a bit tainted by the whole Intel SATA controller fiasco, but I have utmost confidence that Intel and Sager / Clevo / XoticPC will take care of me in the near future. Although I'd rather not be without my baby for a couple weeks, it's something that has to be done.

Enough about that. On to my impressions. Probably more of a play by play, but hope you enjoy.

Specs for the machine I ordered:

17" 1920x1080 glossy (matte wasn't available when I ordered)
Intel i7-2720QM
GTX 485m
16GB RAM DDR3 1333MHz (I got it shipped with no RAM, and currently only have 8GB installed, but other 8 is on its way)
80GB Intel X25-M SSD (Configured with no SSD, had Intel already)
750GB Seagate Momentus HDD (Configured with no HDD, had Seagate already)
Intel 6300 Wi-Fi (no need for bluetooth, get 6230 if you need internal BT)
Blu-Ray Reader / DVDRW Combo Optical Drive

The notebook PC came double boxed and with a basic carrying case to go along with it. It's a basic black lightly padded case, and they housed the power supply (in its own foam packaging) and manuals and apps / drive DVD's in the case. Glad it comes with a case because I don't have one that can accommodate a 17". All my previous laptops were 15". The machine itself is well protected with LOTS of plastic shielding and adhesive film.

Even though I haven't fully removed all the protective covers, she's a beauty. The metal finish of the lid is elegant and professional. Nobody would know she's got a flux capacitor driving her innards. Overall the thickness and depth aren't really that much more than my current NP8662. She's just wider and heavier (" Honest Abe" would agree). The keyboard is a bit different than expected initially, but I like it. I was expecting a softer keyboard, akin to my M11x, but it has a mecahnical feel to it, which I actually prefer.

Spoiler

She's a beast. Remember Moby D!ck? Well that's what I was about to name my new baby but alas, she ended up with " Heart of Gold" because she's got the infinite improbability drive in her. That, and all my PC's are named after sci-fi starships of some sort.

I had to open her underbelly for some minor surgery to install my own RAM and hard drives. I even popped open the keyboard per the XoticPC video instructions to install my first 8GB RAM there, and it worked like a charm. The access slot is a little different where you have to push with a small screwdriver, but in the same location. I wrapped my screwdriver in electrical tape to give it a little padding. Last thing I want to do is poke through the plastic panel on the top cover. The panel requires a little ginger effort to get it loose, just treat it with care and it'll come off. Then there's five small brass philips head screws that you need to remove at the top of the keyboard. After that, just pull it up and voila, you have access to your other two RAM slots.

Spoiler

I had two hard drives to install. The primary drive is easily accessible under the center cover near the edge of the laptop. I found it kind of strange that there were no fastners (screws) holding the drive in place. edit: they did include the four screws for the hard drive, they are in a plastic baggie that was in the laptop case. Then I realized the cover itself has some retaining features that hold it in place. Nice simplicity of design. Kudos to the engineer that thought of that. The other hard drive slot required a little investigation. You have to remove the optical drive in order to access the other hard drive bay. One word there is that while the drive cage is there, there are no screws to attach a hard drive there, so be sure to locate some before you rip open your machine to install your secondary hard drive or SSD.

Spoiler

Installation of Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit went without a hitch. All drivers are conveniently provided on a DVD, and installed without issue, only required about a dozen restarts, but all is good. So far no dead pixels on the screen that I can tell. Good thing because I'd hate to send the Heart of Gold back to be decommissioned after just leaving the docking bay. I haven't messed with the brightness, contrast, or color controls at all and it looks very crisp and clear. Only gripe is that the vertical viewing angles kind of wash out after a cone of about 90 degrees (45 deg vertical up and down). Side to side is pretty good though.

Indicator lights near the LCD are some sort of spherical checkered thing. Not sure what that's all about but it'd not hurting anything I guess. Might have something to do with the flux capacitor or infinite improbability drive. I dunno.

Spoiler

I haven't messed with the trackpad much since I'm more of a mouse guy, but the buttons have a nice tacticle feel on the surface. Like other Sagers it comes with a fingerprint sensor and an included "personal safe" to lock your personal files in only accessible through they fingerprint sensor or password.

Oh yeah. Keyboard. As mentioned above, I like the overall feel and layout. However, it seems they used a common keyboard between the 15" and 17". From a company standpoint, I understand it saves money. But when you get a 17" it's definitely a desktop replacement. Considering the size of the keys, it could easily have accommodated a full regular keyboard layout and fit closer to the edge. I understand there are probably other constraints, but it just looks "unfinished" like they tried to go cheap with the keyboard layout.

Well, that's about the extent of it right now. I hope to start to run some benchmarks and battery life tests in the near future. I'll be out of town for 24 hours starting tomorrow at noon, and of course Super Bowl Sunday when I get back, so not sure if I'll have much time to play around or give much feedback before then. Feel free to ask questions though and I'll be sure to answer what I can.

 

Congrats on the new rig..

Looking forward to hearing more about the performance etc..

 

Very nice. Let's see those benchmarks!

 

Your config Is almost identical to the one I ordered.. I am looking forward to hearing how she performs. Thanks for taking the time to share.

 

Downloading 3DMark11 now. I know I know I should have done that sooner. But I'm not that well prepared.

 

Not that the Windows Experience Index means anything, but here's mine.

 

3DMark Vantage results below. A couple disconcerting things though. I got a lot of frame skipping during the benchmark. Also CPU temps were ~ 80C with one core at 83C. My ambient temps are only about 22C. I paid for the IC Diamond upgrade too. I may have to regoop my CPU and GPU and see if it helps. Those temps seem a little high.

 

3DMark11 Performance (720p):


3DMark11 Extreme (1080p):


That's all for tonight guys, sorry. Gotta get some shut eye.

 

Hmm, yeah, compared to the results from various resellers, those temps do seem a bit high..

Let us know how the re-gooping went.

 

Appreciate the info! Will be keeping a close eye on this tag since I'm getting the same rig (at some point).

 

In regards to your temps, did you have the fans on full blast? I did that and it drastically reduced my temperatures.

FN+1

 

Thanks for the comparison pics with your 8662. I agree on the keyboard. The side space seems wasted. I could live with the same sized keys, but would've liked a 4 column number pad and maybe more spacing with the arrow keys.

 

Regarding the thermal paste and temps, weird thing was that 3DMark11 the temps were a good 5-8C cooler than Vantage. So maybe I'll run some furmark and see what that does.

I did turn on the "Fn+1" for a short time but it's like running a hair dryer. Maybe the goop just needs some time to settle. Just irritates me that if it wasn't applied well, what did I pay the $40 for? I also feel that the system should manage the fans appropriately and not require full blast to keep things cool.

Yeah the keyboard is nice, but it just kinda still bugs me that they didn't utilize the width of the 17" to space things out.

I'm tempted to return it for a few reasons. Primarily the HD 6970. I wish they'd release pricing. If it's more than $200 less then I could buy a 92% gamut matte screen with that, and also have a machine that has a fixed SATA controller without having mine ripped apart. I guess I have a week or so decide, but then I'd have to wait for a refund before placing my next order. Which would probably put me at end of April or beginning of May.

 

I think many resellers just can't resist putting too much thermal paste on even when they know they shouldn't. I have opened up laptops from well known and very technically knowledgeable resellers only to find that their build engineer who has had many years of experience has put too much thermal paste on, with it even covering the entire chips surrounding.

 

Well when I decide to rip off the heatsink, I'll be sure to take photos, and if it's a very shoddy job I want my $40 back. I spent the money so I wouldn't have to take the time to do it myself. I don't mind doing it but don't like ripping apart my new laptop.

 

Yeah, I always do them myself because I want to test the actual goop application,

and I wouldn't pay $40 for other people to do it for me, because you can get at least 3 IC Diamonds at that price..

 

It is possible that the HD 6970 pricing is out there and simply not being shared because of either 1) a fear of current sales dropping till it's available or 2) that the price is indeed so much cheaper that the nVidia inventory won't sell as well or as quickly.

From everything I've read about the 6970, the price should lie somewhere between the 470m and 485m, and based on past pricing patterns, I'm guessing around $275 more than the 460m, which would put the 6970 about $220 cheaper than the 485m, and explain the unusual pricing silence. Again that is just an educated guess, but it WILL be relatively cheaper.

I definitely agree on you rather having a unit that isn't ripped apart down-the-road for repairs, and those high temps do sound quite odd for a Sager machine considering I have only heard people here rave about how cool Sager systems run. From the sound of your skepticism, your purchase has not started off well, and that can gnaw at you over time because of the underlings of being dissatisfied with what you paid for or buyer's remorse. I say if you don't feel comfortable, then return it; otherwise don't second-guess yourself and enjoy what you have because you do have a beast of a machine.

As far as waiting for a refund should you return it, I was told that you can pre-order a unit without paying, and when they are ready to build the unit they will call to run your CC or process a check that you can send in a week or two before they need it to move forward so they aren't impeded. Just a thought.

 

Thanks for the pics versus your 8662; I'd been trying to visualize the difference in my head. It's good to know that it really isn't that much bigger.

I can understand the temptation of the 6970M. Canadian seller Aikimox has already said that the 6970M is around $400, that's going to be at least a $250 savings from the 485M. I was really on the fence, until Mythologic started offering the high color gamut screen at $200. It's an offer I can't refuse. My two main priorities are that my games and Blu-ray movies run their best, while looking as good as possible. The 6970M will handle the former without flaw, and suddenly this custom screen appears, to present a unique opportunity which can be found nowhere else.

My mind is set, 100%.

Charging $40 for someone to spread goop is criminal.

 

Yes, I'm really into good panels, but come to think of it,

I can get a Dell 21.5" IPS monitor with that price..

I'm on edge right now, because a panel is a panel, and a monitor would give me a larger screen with a theoretically better panel..

Though it would be more of TN & B+RG vs. IPS & WLED.

 

I wish my laptop had an Infinite Improbability drive...

Also, glad you got it, but what about the Sandy Bridge issue?

 

True indeed about buying a monitor, but I'll need my premium screen to be mobile. I'm never, ever at a desk.

 

Based on a discussion in another thread, the Sager resellers do not touch or have inventory of the Sager machines when you order them from the Sager resellers. The Sager resellers take your order and Sager builds the PC per the specifications you provided to the resellers.

Therefore, the Sager factory is to blame and not the resellers.

 

Unless you get your machine from us, then you can blame us directly as we don't resell we build from scratch =) And we don't put too much on, just a little tiny bit of goop goes a long way lol.

 

I consider MythLogic a Clevo builder rather than a Sager reseller.

 

I don't want to quote all the posts, so I'll just post. I love the machine so far.

If Sager can give concessions somehow when they do the motherboard swap like free two year warranty, then I'll be satisfied and not consider returning it. If I do return it, I guess I should have some patience and wait for everything to settle.

As far as gaming, I mainly want a system to be able to play Battlefield 3, and since that won't be released until Sept/Oct, it may not matter so much to wait until May to get a machine with a fixed SATA controller and everything cleared up between 6970 and 485m. To be honest, I'm happy with nVidia, but that $200 could pay for my matte screen.

It comes down to being without a new laptop between now and May (realistic for a replacement purchase IMHO), or two weeks without my current machine for repair. I may not opt for the 6970 anyhow and then it's all for naught.

Regarding the SATA controller issue I haven't noticed anything but my SSD and HDD are on ports 0 & 1. No noticeable issues with the Blu-ray/dvd but then again all I did was load drivers off it.

For the thermal paste, I can understand the $40, a little steep, but I paid so I didn't have to do it. The way I understand it, the machines ship into Sager pre-configured, so Sager has to remove the existing paste and apply the new. To do it properly (which I hope they would) will take about 30 minutes to remove panels, heatsink, clean off existing goop (probably longest task), tint the CPU and heatsink, apply the paste, and secure everything back up.

 

I guess it depends on:

- Your peace of mind
- How well your NP8662 is holding up (I know we are having similar issues)
- Whether the 6970M appeals to you. Let's not even talk price. I've been guaranteed that it will be $200 plus cheaper, so if that's what you care about, it's a done deal. But is that enough, for you? Do you trust AMD enough to make the switch?

 

And the Intel 3rd generation SSDs will release in March.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/har...st-intel-g3-ssd-benchmarks-7.html#post7129194

 

Better $1:GB is what I'm waiting for, still.

I won't go higher than $1 per GB. Meaning I want an 80GB SSD for $80.

 

Yeah, more I think about it, if it wasn't for the 6970 I would just keep the machine and deal with the repair. I just want some satisfaction that they don't screw up the repair. Changing the motherboard takes complete disassembly of the machine which could easily result in missed connections, loose screws, etc. And with the number of recall repairs that will be coming in, even a careful and talented tech will probably be on a schedule to get it done on a tight schedule.

 

I can totally understand that concern. If there's a complete teardown looming, I'd much rather just trade in for a brand new machine, one which never had any issues. With the Sager recall not coming until May, it makes things tougher, as you're well past the point of return by then.

It's a tough decision, the one you have to make. If it were me, I'd wait for the 6970M price confirmation, then take advantage of the 30 day return return period. If it isn't $200+ cheaper, I'd keep it. If it is (which it is), I'd send this one back.

Then, check the LCD thread, to see if the high gamut screens are worth the hype.

 

I'm most interested in the matte screen to be honest, high gamut would be nice but not necessary. Using a matte screen protector is fine by me, I'm using one right now with my M11x and you would think the screen was actually matte.

I'm just concerned how picky they are with the 30 day return guarantee too. They say it has to be returned *exactly* how you received it. Makes me a little leary. Additionally, the warranty restarts from the time they repair the machine, so that's a little added extra I guess.

So bottom line it comes down to whether I want a repair or not and if I'm willing to wait two to three months for a new machine when I already have one in hand.

 

Id keep it personally and just enjoy what everyone is drooling to have right now..

The SB issues should not be affecting you to any degree and you can worry about all that later on ..

You can always buy the matte screen later on if its that important to you and then sell off your current screen to recoup the money spent on the matte screen etc..

 

Yeah.. swapping a panel isn't as hard as it sounds.

First time it took me like 20 minutes but after that it took less than 10 for me..

 

awesome!.... so if I'm using a hybrid drive for my primary and a 750gb for my secondary, how much lower will my WEI score be?

 

The momentus XT won't be much more than a traditional 7200RPM hard drive. It's a fast 7200RPM drive though. If you ran WEI like five or six times in a row you would see the score go up though because the drive would "learn" that program is being used frequently. It caches the most frequently accessed files, more or less.

 

Momentus XT is initially at 5.9.

After it starts "learning", it goes up to 6.0~6.1. But I heard it never goes up above 6.1...

 

Yeah, Momentus XT is a nice compromise but has its limits. Fast boots, and a few commonly used apps launch quickly. Other than that, it's like a fast hard drive. Too many people expect a 500GB SSD for $120. Nothing beats an SSD, any SSD really, for I/O performance, access times specifically.

 

While I too would have some reservations about a motherboard change-out, I don't think that would be something to seriously worry about. Sager will make sure that these repairs leave the machines in the same new and working order as the one you already got from them. Like Intel, I'm sure Sager believes in building and keeping brand loyalty.

I would keep the machine myself because I favor nVidia over AMD by a large margin and trust their longevity and product support. As you said, this 'return' issue wouldn't even be there if it wasn't about saving some money - you've already spent the money, so be happy with that decision and enjoy the reward of what you have in-hand. Also, no matter what you decide, the keyboard size won't change and you can always upgrade to a matte LCD down the road if you truly want one. I say, live with the choice you made when you ordered the rig, and just move foward to a lengthy and fun future of playing games with an awesome and unparalleled GPU.

Will be awaiting future benchmark data! And keep us posted on the core temps please. Thanks!

 

Sager will take care of any machine that comes in for the swap out. When you are ready to proceed with it let your seller know and we can also keep a close eye over the process. Feel free to reach out to me or any of our other staff when you are ready to send it off and we would be happy to do so.

BTW, Glad to see you received the machine! Enjoy it!

 

Yeah thanks Justin. So far I am loving it. It's like getting a new car where you don't want any dings or smudges or anything on it. Thanks for your help in processing this. I'll be sure to contact you when Sager says they've got repair parts available.

 

Be sure you do, we will make sure your machine remains your "Heart of Gold"
Glad to hear you are enjoying it!

 

Although I'm a little late to the game, hopefully I can fill in with a few tests of my own so far with the NP8170.

Sound

So far, I love it. Comparing these speakers with what you are used to hearing out of a full system it really can't compare. However, comparing this to other laptops, I must say I was impressed. Now don't get me wrong, I am not an audiophile and I am not an expert on the subject. I did set up my old Asus Z96JS, Asus EEEPC 1215N, and the NP8170 side by side. Compared to the laptop and the netbook I found the NP8170 was easily the best sounding system out of the bunch. The max volume was louder, crisper, and seemed to fill up the room a lot better than the other two computers.

I tested this before I installed the THX software and after. Honestly, I really couldn't tell the difference between the sound before and after. Regardless I am more than happy with the sound from this system.

Keyboard

I've never had a chiclet style keyboard or a 10key pad before and I am still getting used to typing on it. The keys seem solid enough but I noticed mine tend to vibrate a little bit when I type. I will note however, that there is little to no flex while typing and the palmrest is very solid.

Touchpad

The touchpad is made out of the same brushed aluminum material as the rest of the laptop. It is very responsive and smooth and easy to use. I havent felt frustrated yet while trying to use it or the buttons. Everything seems solid and well built. I must say I am so relieved the 8170 has the brushed aluminum look instead of that rubberized finish. This one simple feature alone would be enough to sell me on this machine.

Additional Memory Slots

I must admit, I had one hell of a time getting the cover popped off. I tried following the video posted for the NP8130 and I cant stress enough that although you use the same hole to punch the panel, you don't pop off the screen on the NP8170. Instead you pop off the cover underneath that screen. I also highly recommended that you follow what HTwingnut did and put a piece of tape over the screwedriver blade so you don't scratch the backside of that panel. If you look at the pictures he posted you can get a better idea of what needs to be removed.

Heat

When I had this computer built I opted for the standard stock thermal paste. I have enough experience applying thermal paste that if needed I can do the job myself. First thing I did was download HWmonitor and test what the temps were with the stock thermal paste. If any of the resellers can contribute as to what type of paste this is I would like to know.

Spoiler

The only game I have installed on this computer so far is World of Warcraft.
I logged into the game and set the display to 1920 x 1080 with all settings on Ultra. I noticed I would get consistent fps around 59-60. I then went to the busiest part of Org and stood then for about 5 minutes. While doing this I averaged about 30 fps. After about 5 minutes I tabbed out of fullscreen mode and looked at HWmonitor.

Spoiler

I then installed and ran Furmark v1.8.2- that I downloaded from Guru3D's website.

Below is a screenshot I took after running Furmark for 35 minutes.

Spoiler

I have never ran this before so I didn't mess with any of the settings other than putting it on 1920 x 1080. Temps got up to about 74 deg at the max but they consistently hovered around 72-73 deg with the fan at a reasonable noise level.

Take note around the 23 minute mark the dip in temperature. At this point I turned the fan on high using the Fn+1. Within seconds the GPU temp started to lower and it went to about 66 deg before I turned it back.

Spoiler

Benchmarks

As of this time I've only run two different benchmarks. 3DMark 11 and 3DMark Vantage. I do not own either of these programs so unfortunately I can't do any other tests than the 720p resolution in 3Dmark11. The computer also crashed on me about 15 minutes after I ran the 3DMark Vantage so I lost the link to that test and I can't run another due to the one time use trial version.

3DMark 11
Result

Also take note I am running Nvidia Driver version: 265.77. This is the driver version that came with the driver CD supplied by Sager. I tried to install the 266.58 drivers on the Nvidia site but it could not verify my hardware and it would not install. Apparently my driver version is not certified for these benchmarks so if anyone has any suggestions please let me know.

Stability

I'm not sure if it's the video drivers I'm using or what the problem is but since I've had this thing up and running I have had a few crashes. It would not wake up from sleep mode once after I let it sit for a few hours. I had one blue screen while looking at webpages also.
Take note I have had no problems while running Furmark or any of the benchmarks I've ran so far. Also, the limited time I was in WoW I had no crashes either.

 

Wow, nice impressions..



Maybe I should have settled for the 17"... but the 17" seems a bit too big.

What size is it exactly? 17.3"?

 

So if you order your system with 8GB of Ram, is the RAM installed under the keyboard or under the back panel with the CPU,GPU? I thought I read somewhere that Sager is placing the first 2 chips under the Keyboard so that its a little easier to upgrade to 16 if you prefer?

Anyways, thanks for sharing your thoughts. I cant wait to receive my laptop in April...and the wait continues..

 

They are installing it under the keyboard first

 

Great review. Hopefully you'll add even more when you get around to it, as those of us without a new laptop due to the recall are drooling over here :x

 

Does anyone know of a good program to stress the cpu?

 

Prime95.

Prime95 (64bit) - 25.11 Download - EXTREME Overclocking

 

I wonder how WOW will run with the 485 card. good review!

 

Here's my GTX 485m with Furmark after ten minutes and then I initiated Fn+1 for full fans. GPU maxed at 90C, after Fn+1 it stabilized at 83C.

Max Furmark after ten minutes
Furmark five minutes after initiating full fans.

Prime95 i7-2720QM - Max temps (four cores): 83-87-84-81 after 5 mins max fans: 76-81-77-76

15 minutes Large FFTs (Max power and heat)
5 minutes max fan (after 15 minutes above)

It's beginning to make me wonder even more if the thermal paste isn't applied correctly. 87C for CPU? Sorry, but that's just not acceptable. 90C for GPU. Not unheard of but also should be better than that.