HTWingNut's Sager NP7330 / Clevo W230ST REVIEW

Win 7 drivers should be available for download soon.

 

I think I may have found a contributor to the poor battery life. I noticed the nVidia GPU Activity Indicator lights up and says that SB Cinema is active and using the dedicated GPU even though I configured it to use integrated in the nVidia Control Panel. I can't figure out what exe is doing it though because the sbcinema.exe file isn't in the task manager. But if the dedicated GPU is active while on battery, even if idle that could consume several precious Watts more energy.

 

Try uninstalling the sound blaster software altogether?

I have a similar glitch cropping up from time to time on the 110er where optimus will not switch off until reboot after piping audio through the hdmi. Wouldn't surprise me if sound blaster cinema is detecting it as another sound card, causing this.

 

Can you confirm what program you are using to measure your temperature?

I'm idling at 55-65 C even with a cooler. I also repasted but didn't help much.


Also, if you press the very bottom of the spacebar, does it register for you? I'm wondering if it will be worth it for me to get a keyboard exchange, but need some info whether other people are facing this.

 

Hey, I see you mentioned that you found out that the discrete graphics were on when you did the battery test. Any chance you could do a battery test while ensuring that the nvidia graphics are disabled the whole time? I talked to someone from xotic pc and they said there should be no problem getting 5 hours battery life if you have power saving plans enabled, brightness down and the nvidia gpu disabled. This laptop would be almost exactly what I'm looking for if I can use it as a general purpose laptop for ~5 hours on battery and then get a little bit more GPU muscle when plugged in.

 

Is there anything besides undervolting you would recommend to improve the somewhat abysmal battery life? Also, I saw things about the Clevo W740SU recently, how does that stack up to the w230st in terms of performance (how much worse?)

 

Is that running with standard fan configs (where they basically don't turn on below 60 so you're guaranteed to hit that temperature eventually), or is that running with FN+1?

And is your optimus on or off when this is the case?

 

You really can't compare a system with an iGPU to one like the W230ST in terms of performance. I don't see any gaming benchmarks, but between the Iris and 765M pages it looks like the dedicated card scores about twice as high on 3DMark, for example.

Looking around at some early gaming benchmarks, I think the gap may widen as you up the resolution and/or turn on extra bells and whistles. It's probably enough for lower-res, "medium"-options gaming, and certainly fine for web browsing, watching movies, etc.

 

With regular use the CPU idle temps are 55-60. If I let the system sit for a while doing nothing it can drop below 50.

For the space bar I guess if I tap the very bottom it doesn't register, but that's pretty normal. The switch is in the middle. You just have to tap it near the middle and it activates no problem at all.

I didn't find that the discrete graphics were on necessarily, just that I noticed recently that the SB Cinema was activating the 765m, I don't know if it was on or not when doing the battery test because I didn't have the nVidia GPU Activity monitor running.

Not even close. Iris Pro has artificially high 3DMark scores, but actual performance is more on par with a GT 640m/730m. If you don't care much about performance or don't game much it may be a contender.

 

Just as an example, it does register on the w110er as long as you're tapping near the middle (horizontally).

 

Horizontally it activates pretty much across the entire bar. Up/down it activates in the inner 80%. To me it isn't a problem at all, never a missed space.

 

I'm guessing that the temperatures have something to do with the fan profile that I've been reading about. The fan seems to be non existent until enough heat it stored for it to max blast the fan.


For the keyboard, this issue seems to be mainly with chiclet-like
keyboards as I have not seen this issue on my older laptops. I do have an HP elitebook with a chiclet keyboard, but it works 99% both vertical and horizontal so you would only miss if you pressed the very tip of the corner.

The bottom spacebar missing kind of bothers me since I mainly use the laptop on my bed with the laptop sitting on my upper chest and my hands curl around which makes me hit around the bottom of the spacebar.

 

Ah, ok. Well, did you explicitly disable the discrete graphics for browser/flash? I've never actually had an nvidia card with optimus so I don't know, but as I understand it from some things I read, flash tends to make the discrete graphics come on unless you've disabled it.

 

For German / Euro-zone thread watchers, the rep from HawkForce said you can PM user "HawkForce" for a NBR member discount of €50, if you're interested. They're also helping me to remove the VAT / MwSt since I'm not a citizen.

 

All these issues with knowing which GPU being used is why I prefer the Sony solution of having a dedicated switch to turn on or off GPUs. This way, we don't have to guess what GPU is being used or not being used and software's always going to have bugs, etc. A physical switch would solve all those issues pronto...

 

1st of all, great review HTWingnut. Much appreciated!

I just got my little W230ST today, and I wanted to replicate your undervolting (I have the 4700mq, however). When you say you undervolted by 100mV, are you referring to the "Dynamic CPU Voltage Offset" or the "Core Voltage" slider?

Is there any way you could just post a screenshot of your XTU settings?

Thanks so much. I really want to get my CPU down to the 80c range under load. Right now the stress test takes it up to the low 90's.

 

Dynamic CPU Voltage offset.

 

When I run XTU and create a new profile how do I ensure that it is running without checking in CTU every time? It seems like it keeps going back to the default. Any word on the Prema BIOS?

Rob

 

It should not keep going back to default. I'm assuming you clicked Apply? It should stick with that indefinitely until you change it again or if your computer crashes.

 

is there anyway to make the settings automatically be enabled at startup?

 

I received my coolermaster xslim yesterday, and it's MUCH more comfortable on the lap than the X3 which I had previously ordered.

As a note it is quite cool in MI today, probably around 65F when I was using it, so I can't comment on how good it will be when actually warm yet, but just size/shape/weight/build, MUCH better. (or BETTARZ if you will)

...and still in sent to factory blah blah blah limbo mode... (Project shield & new nexus 7 due 1w from today though... although I'm REALLY considering cancelling shield ATM...)

 

Once you set it they're always enabled. It only resets if your computer crashes. It adjusts BIOS settings actually (settings that aren't visible in the actual BIOS screens).

 

HT, so the only thing you changed in XTU was to set the Dynamic to -100mV, correct? I thought you also upped the clocks a bit, right?

 

Nope. For review, I left them at stock. But for use, I decreased them actually, to 3.2GHz for 3 and 4 cores. I also decreased the cache voltage -100mV. 3.2 GHz and -100mV keeps CPU < 85C and limiting FPS in high stress games like BF3 resulted in temps ~ 80C.

 

A-ha! I was wondering why I couldn't get my temps down to 80c. Thanks so much for sharing your settings. I'm still getting the little monster set up (using it now to post this) but I'm very much looking forward to seeing the gaming performance!

 

HT can you EXPLICITLY tell us EXACTLY what changes you made made from stock? Which is what I think that some of these recent posts are about.

Personally I had been thinking that you dumped core voltage, but I'm just not seeing that in XTU, so I dumped cache(8250) and well, it was a LITTLE better, but... (not quite what I had hoped for, or had seen from your 7330 reports)

So, I started looking at dynamic voltage... but at the moment I think that I'm at the point where I need to go pull some data sheets, as in I'm having a hard time seeing cache -100mV dropping temps so much as it's pretty paltry and pn;y cache.... so I guess ark here I come...

 

Just got my W230ST and I'm typing on it right now. Got a question for you HT, is the power button design to be pressed for 1-2 sec while on battery to turn on the machine? Reason I'm asking is that when I was plugged in, I only have to pressed the power button without holding it and it would power on the machine right away, but when i'm on battery i need to hold down the power button for 1-2 sec for it to power on. Is that normal?


Another thing, the battery power icon indicator only shows percentage and no longer shows the time remaining but my Alienware 14 and Sony Vaio shows it. Is this a Clevo/Sager thing? Is there a setting to turn this back on?

 

I think you need to update your windows in order to have the battery time remaining feature.

 

The power button is a known clevo quirk (got it in both the w110er and p151em). I think it's supposed to be a feature to prevent people from accidentally turning the laptop on or something.

 

Hey guys, I am looking to pick up this for my w230 baby that is on its way,

Liteon LMT 256M3M mSata 6gb/s

Does anyone have any experience with this brand an if its a viable purchase, what's the difference between this an the plextors everyone is going on about, they made by the same manufacturer.

Any info will be greatly appreciated

Thanks


Sent from Space using Tapatalk 2

 

You can drop cache if you want to, every little bit helps. As far as the CPU it's only 1V stock, so 100mV or 0.1V is 10% drop which is pretty significant.

Here's the settings I used. Default (stock) on left, changes highlighted yellow on right, direct from XTU.



Changing core voltage doesn't seem to do squat, only the dynamic core voltage, probably because it's locked on "adaptive" and not "static". If you run the XTU Stress Test at stock you will see the CPU speed drop to 3.1 or 3.2GHz or lower even. If you drop -100mV then run the stress test, CPU maintains 3.5GHz.

 

Thx HTWingnut for ur review. Was waiting for it. As expected cpu always runs hot while gpu is cool as hell...Seems like a Clevo gimmick, XTU undervolting is nice though. Getting a 37W cpu and undervolting it should be nice. Battery life seems not so bad considering you're running 3 ssds, a 47W cpu and 2 sticks of ram. Do you have a wattmeter to take the power consumption at the wall ? Nice to the 120W power block is smaller also.

I was interesting to get the 14" Iris 5200 by curiosity but why the heck they didn't implement a backlight keyboard on it ? Kind of a deal killer. I'm not sure about power efficiency during load also.

Thx again. Good job as always.

Edit :According to this german review, Iris 5200 is not that power efficient for gaming.
http://translate.google.com.ar/tran...intel-iris-pro-5200-grafik-im-test/2/&act=url

Ok W230ST it is The W740SU seems to be hard to dissassemble also. Yuck !!!!

 

GAH! I did power consumption from the wall and can't believe I omitted it! I could have sworn I did a quick write up about it.

I will add it (later today after work).

 

Great Review HTWingNut, thank you! I´m from Europe and I cant wait that the W230ST will be avaible around here. There is just one thing i really would like to know: You talked about the Clevo Control Center where you can set different overall settings for the notebook. How is the fan working in silent mode?
I mean is it really not making any noise for lets say 80% of the time and jumping on from time to time or is it constanly spinning at low (silent) speed?
I ask because i hate it when cooling fans just start like an airplane when i sit in libary of my university so you get distracted from what you were reading...

 

Oh ok. So this is normal and all Clevo laptop users have this?

 

Thanks HT. Yep that's pretty much how I have it set now, but I haven't adjusted the 3/4 core mults(yet).

Now, as much as I hate to say this, I need one of those too warm days again, but I'm prefectly happy to wait hopefully, several weeks for one...

 

Funny you mention that, I was just going to post my own mSata questions
I'm in the process of gathering the parts to put my w230 together and have been looking thru mSata choices.
Why are the plextors the top choice? and Somehow I remember I heard "dont choose one with a sandforce chipset", is this true? are there problems?

 

Yes mighty probs. I don't know what I am talking about... Only that sandforce ones inherrently die, and have to be reset by the manufacturer. This pretty much inlcudes most if not all cheap mlc mSATAs such as OCD and crucial. Someone please jump in and correct me if I am wrong. I can't find any slc ssds.

 

The Crucial m4 mSATA SSDs use a Marvell controller. I wouldn't be too worried about having MLC NAND. Anandtech has tested it extensively and it lasts more than long enough. (even Samsung's triple (TLC) has an estimated lifetime of 8 years and that's "worse" than MLC as far as lifetime goes.

Notebookreview has a review of the m4 and Anandtech has a good one of the Plextor M4M. Check them out.

 

AWESOME review HT! Like seriously, AWESOME! :thumbsup:
I'm considering pulling the trigger on this machine, the only thing holding me back is the possibility of getting a Lenovo Y510P instead.
One thing that could make me lean towards the W230ST would be if you could confirm that there really is no loss in fidelity when gaming at 720P as opposed to native resolution. If I can play all my games at 720P and not have to worry about blurriness or loss of fidelity, then this machine is a surefire win.

 

i was interested in what types of msata to get with this laptop....should i ever get it lol. when i knew there was 2 msata slots. i thought which types. i figured the plextor is the top choice. then i saw later wingnut also opted for them. i thought well i decided good then if thats his choice lol. but if you can get pm841 , then that be a very good choice also. but prob more expensive.

 

bredrin. you need to tell me what you just said there. did you just say. hawkforce will help you out by removing to pay VAT becayse you do not live in the same country?. also i was thinking this the other day. times are hard but if i could buy without cost of vat. id snap it up.

 

When I get a chance I will be sure to record some videos of gameplay at 720p.

 

Only deutch keyboard or what ? They have good prices anyway.

 

If it was me and I wanted to run 2 in raid then I would go for the intel 525.

 

Yes, power button takes a couple seconds

There is no issue with SSD's longevity, period. That's a myth that's been busted over and over again.

I will test it more thoroughly later, but I don't recall the fan bursting on at all in silent mode.

 

Will disabling turbo boost and keeping all 4 cores at static 2.4ghz severely impact frames per sec gaming performance? I'm about to experiment in a little bit since after running 3dmark11 and finishing it within 10 minutes, my cpu temp went 99c WOW!!!


Also battery life last night after testing it with just surfing and playing music at Balanced Mode 40% brightness from 100% - 7% critical to hibernation was 3:02 hrs which is very disappointing and I only have 1 SSD drive in my w230st. I was hoping to get closer to 4hrs but this is not good. But i'm going to keep testing tonight and see what happens.

 

Good luck finding any SLC drives anyway lol, I suppose if you were truly paranoid and had a fat wallet that desperately needed emptying you could plump for intel s3700 which will on the 800GB do a staggering 14.6PB of writes as a MINIMUM (constantly writing random data).

Of course you pay twice the cost per GB for that

 

I wasn't trying to perpetuate the SSD "no more writes for you" myth, just saying that even with the least "durable" NAND will still last a lifetime unless you're constantly writing data... and EVEN THEN it'll take years for it to wear out.

 

Taking the 800GB intel drive as an example if you write 800GB of random data to it every day it will last 52.4288 years.