HTWingNut's Sager NP6110 / Clevo W110ER First Look & Review

NEW!!! May 9, 2013 Check out my ONE YEAR UPDATE Here: http://forum.notebookreview.com/sag...dual-core-vs-quad-core-gaming-benchmarks.html

INDEX:

REVIEW
Intro
Specifications
System Overview
Noise and Heat
Power Consumption
Battery Life and Portability
. Gaming on Battery
Gaming and GPU Performance BENCHMARKS
CPU Performance
General Use and Performance
Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Cooling Mod


BENCHMARKS
nVidia GT 650m
Intel i7-3610QM
Intel HD 4000 IGP


LINKS
Reviews and battery life info
Overclock Results


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intro INTRODUCTION

When it comes to Clevo gaming notebooks, usually people expect a 15" or 17" form factor. There have been a few exceptions from other manufcturers in the past, with the Alienware M11x coming to mind. Until recently there really was little to compete with the M11x until now. Unfortunately Alienware decided to discontinue their M11x and about the same time, Clevo releases their 11.6" gaming notebook, the W110ER. It packs features that are usually only found in 15" or larger notebooks. I'll be putting the machine through its paces in this review, and hopefully giving users a good reference to gauge whether or not its a good buy for you!


specs SPECIFICATIONS:

The machine variant that I have is the Sager branded NP6110. Specifications are as follows:

11.6" 1366x768 Glossy AUO
Intel Ivy Bridge i7-3610QM quad core mobile CPU
IC Diamond Thermal Paste
nVidia GT 650m 2GB DDR3 with Optimus switchable graphics
8GB (2x4GB) DDR3 1600MHz Samsungf
Western Digital SiliconEdge Blue 256GB SSD
Intel 6235 Advanced N Wi-Fi Adapter, with Bluetooth
Windows 7 x64 Ultimate with all stock drivers from SagerNotebook.com
1.3MP Camera
6-cell 65WHr battery


That i7-3610QM is a full power 45W quad core mobile CPU in an 11.6" form factor coupled with a GPU that is nearly comparable to a GTX 560m. Regarding the CPU, even though it is 45W, there is a "brother" CPU the i7-3612QM that is the same silicon running 200MHz slower but is binned as a 35W TDP CPU. At the time of the original release of this laptop, 3612QM's are a rare option and quite expensive, about $200, over the 3610QM. The 3612QM is apparently hand picked from the 3610QM silicon so it runs cool enough for 35W TDP. At this time, Ivy Bridge options in this laptop are limited to the quad core CPU's: i7-3610QM, i7-3612QM, and i7-3720QM, since dual core Ivy Bridge CPU's have a release date later this year. If you are interested in a lower watt dual core, then you can choose from a Sandy Bridge CPU which is compatible with the Ivy Bridge socket and chipset.

I bought my machine from LPC-Digital and many people have asked why I bought through them over other vendors. The answer is simple: cost and courtesy. Larry at LPC-Digital, known at NBR as 'babyhemi' (recently changed to 'Larry@LPC-Digital') was very prompt, professional, and courteous during the whole process. He also was able to manage to offer a reduced cost below other vendors, and also helped expedite my delivery of the laptop. Obviously I can't guarantee what cost or level of service he can offer, but my experience was very pleasant.


system SYSTEM OVERVIEW

The Clevo W110ER at first look is very plain, simple, yet elegant. Nothing about it screams *gaming* computer either. So if being inconpicuous is your goal, this machine will definitely meet your needs. The lid of the LCD and top cover around the keyboard is a rubberized finish. This rubberized finish carries across the touchpad, and has a "perforated" type texture pattern. There are two individual touchpad buttons with distinct and solid clicks. Status lights are above and to the left of keyboard, easy to see, with power and battery lights on the lower left front edge. Several stickers adorn the palm rest surface if you like that kind of thing: "Intel inside - Core i7", "nVidia Optimus", "GeForce GT 650m - 2GB", "THX TruStudio PRO". As far as I'm concerned it's advertising, but if it helps drop the cost of the parts by a little bit, as long as it's passed on to the customer I'm ok with it. The LCD bezel isn't too wide at any given spot, and is made of a lightly textured plastic. The lid folds back probably about 45 degrees past vertical, and the hinge feels quite robust with decent friction.

Ports around the perimeter consist of:

left side, back to front: gigabit LAN, VGA, HDMI, headphone, mic, two USB 3.0 ports
front: card reader
right side, back to front: AC power jack, USB 2.0 port, Kensington lock slot

There are no ports on the back, and the fan vent is just below the HDMI and headphone/mic jacks on the left side.

Underneath the laptop there are two latches to release the battery, which also disengages the access panel, no screws. Everything a user needs access to is there under the access panel: memory, hard drive, wi-fi card, CPU/GPU heatsink assembly, and system fan. The CPU and GPU share a common heatsink assembly, although different heat pipes to the same copper radiator. It takes all of ten minutes to remove the bottom panel, remove the heatsink, clean the old thermal paste, and repaste the CPU and GPU.

From a general spec hardware standpoint there are two disappointing aspects; lack of a backlit keyboard, and the LCD display. However, the chiclet keyboard is very comfortable to type on, no missed keystrokes that I can tell, and very little flex, just backlit would have been a nice feature. The LCD is a 45% gamut with 500:1 contrast, but apparently that is about as good as they come in an LVDS 11.6" unfortunately. Up and down viewing angles are quite narrow, but side to side are decent.

I've become more fickle about my displays over the years, but I believe part of it is that the average consumer laptop screens get the bottom of the barrel for specs just to save money. I understand the business reasons for this, but as an enthusiast, it irritates me that I don't have options. And this Clevo is no exception. Sager offers a single 11.6" glossy 1366x768 display. Clevo rebuilders like Mythlogic offer a matte version of the same screen, and its apparently the best LVDS 11.6" screen that's available. Hopefully there will be some genius users out there that can find a better option for us in the near future.

The CPU is socketed and backwards compatible with Sandy Bridge. But the GPU is soldered on the mainboard so no hope for an upgrade to that later if something more significant comes along, well other than swapping out the entire mainboard. But honestly, if the GT 650m in this tiny package isn't enough for you, it would behoove you to investigate larger laptop options.

Even though I won't really discuss it, this machine supports SATA III, so throw in a fast SSD if you'd like.

In any case, the quality is overall very good. No rattles, gaps, loose hinges, or glaring annoyances. HDMI works like a dream, plug it in and away you go. I haven't spent much time with the audio except for games and it is plenty loud and doesn't sound tinny or anything, but that's all I'll say at the moment because I haven't really spent much time to assess it properly.

Images of the system in the spoiler tag:

Spoiler

noiseheat NOISE and HEAT

Performance of this laptop is the most interesting aspect. Boasting two new technologies, Intel Ivy Bridge 22nm process with tri-gating, and nVidia Kepler 28nm, should offer significant performance increase with reduced power consumption and less heat. I guess that's how Clevo is able to pack so much power in such a small package. We'll see how well that pans out. Additionally, the Intel HD 4000 integrated GPU is supposed to prove a solid 40-50% improvement over the Sandy Bridge HD 3000, or nearly equivalent to the AMD Llano 6620G GPU performance. I will put that to the test as well.

First, the CPU. A quad core mobile chip in an 11.6" form factor is quite a feat. However that comes at a cost in both heat and power consumption. Even though the 22nm manufacturing process and Intel's tri-gate technology are supposed to reduce heat, a mobile quad chip rated at 45W TDP can still crank out some pretty significant temperatures. However, the W110ER's cooling system is up to the task. At first look, the idle temperatures are quite shocking, hovering around 60C. In part, I believe this is by design of the system to minimize noise.

The fan is completely silent until temperatures reach about 65C then the fan slowly ramps ups. Air being pushed out by the single side vent is quite toasty, but it is the only spot on the laptop that gets even remotely warm. The rest of the laptop on top and bottom remain remarkably cool/warm to the touch even at full load. Currently I have no way of accurately measuring the temperature or noise of the fan, but temperature is absolutely a non issue as far as comfort level. The noise of the fan is a lower tone whooshing sound with no audible high pitch or squeal.

During gaming, the CPU can run quite warm, typically in mid to upper 80's if not low 90's. So far however, I have not noticed any signs of throttling, even during Prime95 testing, the CPU will run to 92C or so, but using HWInfo64, the cores are showing pegged at 3.1GHz (although the 3610QM is *supposed* to run at peak 3.3GHz according to Intel). In any case, the remarkable part is that the temperature span is only from 60-90C between idle and load, so in all honesty, I think the cooling system is doing an excellent job at keeping it cool.

Peak temperatures during gaming. Click on graph to enlarge.



power POWER CONSUMPTION

With a 45W CPU and 45W GPU under the hood, it's no doubt that the NP6110 can draw a serious amount under load. The stock Sager machine comes with a 90W power supply, however if you order with a quad core Ivy Bridge CPU you get a 120W power supply. I checked the power draw from the wall both at stock 720p and 1080p hooked to an external monitor and the laptop typically drew less than 90W from the wall. The only time it drew more was with the Prime95 and MSI Kombustor running together, where it peaked at about 105W. The CPU also throttled some during that heavy load scenario.

Power draw was measured from the outlet at idle and during testing and noted the peak sustained power draw. The average draw was typically 5-10% less than the peak. Note that this is *from the wall* and not the actual power consumed by the laptop due to the efficiency factor of the power supply. See the power draw below:




battery BATTERY LIFE AND PORTABILITY

Having a small laptop makes it more portable and easier to carry around, and typically this size laptop sports a lean power sipping CPU with integrated graphics offering a solid 6+ hours of battery life. Well, one thing to consider with this little guy, is the power supply is either going to be a 90W or 120W beast, and not the 45W or even 65W PSU's you're used to. Additionally battery life tests showed it to range from 3.5 to 4.0 hours of useful life for browsing and general use whether in balanced or power saver mode. This is a bit disappointing considering the NP6110 has a respectable 65WHr battery attached. Even with locking the CPU to its minimum speed of 1200MHz, reduced brightness to 20-30%, wi-fi at power saving, it will still draw 13-14W idle, and 15-16W with some actual activity. The lowest brightness of the display is nearly unusable, and realistically only reduces battery consumption by a few tenths of a watt at best. Turning off the Wi-fi may gain you an extra 10-15 minutes of useable life.

I ran four battery life tests:


(1) Low usage test with a word and excel document open, set to auto-save, along with a single browser tab with a web page with just images and text, to be refreshed every 15 minutes. Power saver mode, hard drive shut down after 5 minutes, brightness at 30%, Wi-fi set to power saving, shutdown at 5% battery life left. 4hrs 2mins

(2) Browser test with four Firefox tabs running light flash, and refreshed in 1 to 10 minute intervals, using balanced power profile, brightness at 40%, shutdown at 5% battery life left. 3hrs 31mins

(3) Movie viewing test power saver mode, 40% brightness, wi-fi off, hard drive off, viewing .mkv 5GB 720p video with stereo output.

(4) Battlefield 3 with GPU fixed @ 30FPS, CPU @ 1200MHz, Balanced Mode, GPU and GPU RAM clocked 100MHz slower than stock.





On a brighter note, at least we have Optimus. I hate to see the battery life without it. Those times would likely be cut in half. Optimus is new to me, but it seems pretty straight forward. For the most part any 3D app will automatically run with the dedicated card, but it can be configured from the nVidia control panel.


gamebattery GAMING (BF3) ON BATTERY

Additionally with this being a gaming machine, I figured I'd give this machine a test on battery with one of the more resource hungry games out there, Battlefield 3 multiplayer. Battlefield 3 is basically unplayable using the Intel HD 4000 which is quite disappointing considering I could easily maintain 30fps or higher using the AMD 6620G integrated GPU at 720p with low settings. So we are required to use the dedicated and power hungry GT 650m. If you just load up BF3 and run with it on battery, you will drain your battery dead in no time, like an hour or less, so power saving measures are needed.

Although I haven't been able to get far yet with testing, I was able to get to the point where I was able to play BF3 for 30 minutes and only lose 30% of battery life. The key is to reduce power draw while maintaining performance. There are three things I did to help with this:

(1) Undervolt/underclock. Unfortunately at the moment, there is no way to undervolt or underclock the Ivy Bridge CPU's. The best we can do is lock the multiplier at its lowest value of 12x, fixing the CPU at 1200MHz. This can be done either using unclewebb's ThrottleStop, or just go into your windows power options advanced settings and set minimum and maximum processor state at 0%. I created a new profile based on the "balanced" profile and modified it as such.

(2) Reduce GPU and GPU RAM clocks. I used MSI Afterburner and set it to 735MHz GPU (-100MHz) and 800MHz RAM (-100MHz).

(3) Limit your frames! Wish I could find the person here that introducted me to DXtory, I'd like to thank them again. DXtory is a full featured program for recording video and doing other video related stuff. But one thing it also does is it will limit your frame rate which should reduce power consumption. I fixed it to 30fps.

The result was 30% battery drain after 30 minutes which equates to about 38W/hr drain, and realistically should allow one to game with a resource intesive game for over an hour and a half on battery. I'm hoping to better that if we can ever undervolt and reduce clock speed even more.



gaming GAMING AND GPU PERFORMANCE

One of the primary reason's for this machine's existence is gaming, obviously. So let's take a look at what this thing can do!

This Sager NP6110 sports an nVidia GT 650m clocked at 835MHz, built off the new Kepler technology and 26nm manufacturing process, accompanied by 2GB DDR3 video RAM clocked at 900MHz. Despite everyone's woes about DDR3 video RAM, the GPU clock is significantly faster than the GDDR5 variant to make up some ground in performance. At the native resolution of the 11.6" screen of 1366x768, the overall performance is way more than adquate for any current released game even at high detail.





See the benchmark section for all the detailed benchmarks I completed on this machine. Aside from benchmarks I have played Battlefield 3 and Skyrim a decent amount both at 720p and at 1080p and the GT 650m handled this admirably at both resolutions. BF3 was run at "high" default setting at 720p resulting in an average of 65fps, at 1080p, settings were set to low but allowed it to perform at about 79fps. Skyrim was run at high settings in both instances, and the game was very playable with an average fps of 42 at 720p and 39 at 1080p.

Following are the FPS graphs for these two games to see how it performs below. Click on each graph to enlarge if desired:






For the other benchmarks, I included the Radeon 6750m in my graphs only because I had the data available. I think it's a good testament and gage as to how well the components in the Sager NP6110 can easily outperform 15" notebooks released in the last year. Plus at 720p (768p whatever), the native screen resolution, any newer games will have zero issue running at highest or near highest settings. It even fares well at 1080p if you drop settings a bit.

I plan on offering more "real-world" gaming feedback as I get time, with newer games like Starcraft 2, DiRT 3, Witcher 2, and possibly Diablo 3, but that will probably get more than enough feedback.

As far as how it "feels" for gaming, personally I have had no issue playing BF3 for a few hours already on this machine using the screen and keyboard. The keyboard feels no less responsive than my desktop keyboard and don't feel I'm at a disadvantage due to the keyboard or the screen. And actually, it feels more fluid than when playing on my desktop with 1920x1200 screen powered by an i5-2400 CPU and GTX 460 GPU.


cpu CPU PERFORMANCE

I don't think much has to be said about the CPU that hasn't already been said. It's fast, it's a quad core, and it runs hot. But just for giggles I threw some benchmarks in the benchmark section for CPU performance. It's probably a bit overkill even for gaming, but if you want or need an Ivy Bridge or a quad core for other reasons, it's here and available. Personally, I will be closely looking to the dual core Ivy Bridge CPU's when they finally get released to see if their battery life and heat offer a significant improvement, and if so, likely will upgrade to that.

Here's CPU-Z info on the CPU and mainboard for those of you interested:


Of course with this being a miniscule gaming powerhouse, I thought I'd put the integrated GPU HD 4000 to the test. Unfortunately I don't have a laptop with HD 3000 to compare it with, but I do have an HP DV6z with an A8 Llano CPU which houses the 6620G integrated GPU. I have already done some extensive testing on the 6620G, and the HD 4000 was supposedly supposed to compete with it. But based on my testing, the 6620g is still the king of integrated GPU's. The HD 4000 is still good for older games but unfortunately it won't give you any BF3 love. That being said it should run most older games reasonably well at 720p and low settings. It should also be able to manage Skyrim at low settings without much issue.

See the HD 4000 benchmark results in the post below.


general GENERAL USE

This *IS* a laptop, so besides gaming, this machine is also a great productivity powerhouse. I haven't spent much time watching movies on it, but I've typed most of this review on it as well as managed the images and browsed YouTube and NBR extensively with it and I like it. Obviously that's a very subjective comment, but in general I find the system responsive and a pleasure to work with. Being used to a 1080p or 1200p screen, it is a bit difficult to get used to the "cramped" 1366x768 screen, but it's workable. Then again if you want to do lots of productivity on this laptop, consider an external monitor. I used it for running the 1080p tests, and did some work using it that way as well. It works great with the Logitech laptop tray too.


conclusion CONCLUSION AND FINAL THOUGHTS

The Clevo W110ER came out of the blue offering performance that challenges most 14" and larger notebooks, at least on paper. This machine can deliver when it comes to gaming. Although I do question Clevo's decision on opting for an 11.6" over a 13" notebook, since a 13" they could likely have housed GDDR5 video RAM and offered a much better selection of LCD displays. It's also questionable about the portability factor of this notebook considering the meager battery life not to mention the 120W power brick that weighs in at 1.5 lbs and is fairly substantial in size.

All that said, from a positive standpoint, it is always nice to have something as compact as possible for ease of toting around and minimizing space taken in your backpack, briefcase, whatever. Being able to have the performance of Clevo's own NP8130 in something that is about half the size and weight is a feat that impresses even us uber geeks. Is the performance worth the tradeoff of a substandard screen and large power brick? I guess that's up to you to decide. Battery life as a plus or minus is questionable. The larger machines like the NP9130 and NP9150 likely will get similar battery life, but at a higher price tag and weight, albeit with a better and larger screen.

I think with a little tuning we'll be able to game for at least two hours on battery and drop the heat by a bit. This is but a newborn child just needing some tender loving care.

POSITIVES:
+ Small and lightweight
+ Gaming power only reserved for 15" laptops just a year ago
+ Easy Accessibility to all swappable components
+ Excellent heat management especially for such a hot running CPU

NEGATIVES:
- hot and high power consumption CPU
- battery life
- average quality LCD screen

NEUTRAL:
o 90W or 120W power brick
o supports 35W/45W dual or quad core Ivy Bridge and dual core Sandy Bridge
o rubberized texture finish
o better than average keyboard and good touchpad with separate quality mouse buttons
o USB 3.0 - although would prefer more than 3 total USB ports.






Spoiler tag below hides original "INITIAL IMPRESSIONS" post... here for reference.

Spoiler

Well, just got my Sager NP6110. Special thanks to Larry from LPC-Digital for making it affordable and expediting the delivery! I will post my initial impressions here and then followed with a full review given enough time. I'm sure many of you will have lots of questions at first, I will do what I can to answer them, but please be patient.



This is the photo of it right out of the box. I would do an unboxing video but with my kids around, you'd likely to hear more screaming and jabbering than anything useful.

Her name is "Firefly". I considered "Serenity" because of the actual ship name in the show Firefly, but I like the name Firefly better, so there you have it. Nobody should steal Serenity either...

In any case, right out of the box, as already shown by Larry in his video, there isn't much there, but there doesn't need to be. Just the laptop with battery attached, power supply, and documentation with driver disk.

The surface is rubberized with a noticeable texture, and carries across the touchpad, and reminds me of the new HP DM1 touchpad which I like a lot. The keyboard has some flex in it in a couple spots, but they keys depress nicely and shouldn't be any concern for a touch typist or even a hunt and peck. Ham fisted users might find it a bit disconcerting, but not sure if that really matters.

Unfortunately I didn't order an OS with the machine so I will be installing Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit shortly, along with my 256GB WD SiliconEdge Blue SSD.

Well I will be sure to update this thread thorughout the evening. But I also have my kids to tend to, hoping they get their butts to bed at a reasonable hour tonight so daddy can play!

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I will write this post as more of a blog entry until I can finally get the thing up and running and do a formal review.

My machine definitely comes with a 120W power supply. It's dimensions are 6.5in long x 2.75in wide x 1.6 high and weighs about 1.5 lbs.

The screen at first look actually is not bad at all. Viewing angles are decent, and brightness is good, but I haven't had a chance to fuss with settings yet.

While installing Windows, the fan is making no noticeable noise at all. I can feel a bit of heat coming out the side, but it's nothing worrisome. I just got stock paste, but will clean and replace with IC Diamond later when I get a chance. Actually I may do that this evening, because I'd rather test and report temps with it than the stock paste.

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7:20pm EST

Doing the driver and MS updates dance right now. Always an annoying part of getting a new computer but well worth it in the long run. After I do that I intend on doing an image backup and change the thermal paste and then the real fun begins!

Just for the record my specs:

11.6" 1366x768 Glossy
i7-3610QM stock thermal paste, will install IC Diamond later
GT 650m
8GB DDR3 1600 (self installed)
256GB SSD WD SiliconEdge Blue (self installed)

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8:20pm EST

Still plugging away at installing updates, what a PITA! Darn .NET Framework 4 takes FOREVER!

A few more observations though. The screen is not as bright as I'd prefer it, but it's acceptable. The real test will be with outdoor use. I'll check that out tomorrow. Also the screen seems to have the "screen door" effect albeit minor, but I can see it. Then again I think I've become more in tune with that stuff over the years when it likely wouldn't 99% of users.

The Intel 6235 Wi-Fi card is lightning fast. So much better than the crap Ralink or Broadcom cards that come with most big brand OEMs like Dell, HP, Acer. That is one thing that really irritated me with my HP DV6z.

 

Benchmarks:


Sager NP6110

gt650m GPU: nVidia GT 650m 835MHz CPU / 900MHz DDR3 MEM:

3DMark06

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3DMark Vantage

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3DMark11

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Cinebench R11.5 OpenGL

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Crysis

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Dirt 2 Demo

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HAWX 2

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Just Cause 2

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Lost Planet 2

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Metro 2033

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Resident Evil 5

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STALKER Pripyat

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Trackmania Nations

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SKyrim Intro

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Street Fighter IV

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3610qm

Intel i7-3610QM

3DMark CPU Results

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Cinebench R10 and R11.5

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PCMark05 and Vantage

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x264

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hd4000

HD 4000 Results

Please note that the HD 3000 in these results came from an HP DM1 with an i3 ULV Sandy Bridge CPU. It also had only a single RAM slot which gimped the performance of the HD 3000 by what I'd say a solid 20-25%. I only put it there because it was data I had available from previous testing.

3DMark

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Crysis

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Dirt 2 Demo

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HAWX 2 Benchmark

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Just Cause 2

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Resident Evil 5

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STALKER Pripyat

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Street Fighter IV

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Trackmania Nations

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links LINKS:

reviews Other Reviews / Battery Life Tests:

http://www.notebookreview.com/defau...ocom+monster+clevo+w110erf+gaming+netbook&p=2
4hrs 11 mins

http://forum.notebookreview.com/sag...-w110er-first-look-review-28.html#post8514118
4hrs 18mins

http://forums.overclockers.com.au/showthread.php?t=1028281
5hrs 30mins

http://www.anandtech.com/show/5812/eurocom-monster-10-clevos-little-monster/5
5hrs 38mins

http://nl.hardware.info/reviews/2748/13/bto-pbook-11cl45-review-ultrabook-accutest-readertest
3hrs 10mins

http://www.laptopmag.com/review/laptops/eurocomm-monster.aspx
3hrs 28mins

http://www.notebookcheck.com/Test-Schenker-XMG-A102-Clevo-W110ER-Subnotebook.74505.0.html
4hrs 24mins

http://www.theverge.com/2012/5/20/3032999/review-11-inch-ivy-bridge-kepler-clevo-w110er
3hrs 40mins

BTO P.Book 11CL45 review: ULTRAbook | Hardware.Info Nederland

and translated: Google Vertaling


http://forum.notebookreview.com/sag...ger-np6110-owners-lounge-129.html#post8535789


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oc OVERCLOCK PERFORMANCE
3DMark 11 Overclocked! P2931!
3DMark11 P2931

 

cooling COOLING MOD:

Below is going to be somewhat my blog for my NP6110 cooling mod. It's currently work in progress and will report out with significant progress.

Visit my full review thread here: http://forum.notebookreview.com/8493519-post4.html


SEPTEMBER 9, 2012

Well after frying my mainboard, not due to this mod (I don't think so), and having to replace the mainboard, I decided not to mod it with the fan again. But thanks to Clevo and Prema's BIOS mods temps are running cooler in general. I can't highly recommend enough to raise the back edge of your laptop to help with cooling. And if you're feeling adventurous, cut a hole in the bottom of your laptop cover over the CPU and/or over the fan intake. I just left my opening over the CPU where my fan mod was and put a grille there. Temps are resting comfortably 5-10C cooler than original testing.




JUNE 13, 2012

Woot! Got my fan mod done! I ended up just going with a single speed, but took two diodes so fan runs ~ 3.5V, great combination of noise, vibration, and cooling. A main reason for a single speed was the limited package space to put any kind of switch or dial for voltage regulator. Very tight inside.

In the end all I have is a power switch exposed and the fan at the bottom.

Prime95 is about 83C and idle is about 50-52C. Although I will probably primarily use it at load, and of course off when on battery.

Opened up before mod:


After mod:


Wires organized and ready to close:


Buttoned up:


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JUNE 6, 2012

Picked up some 1N4001 50V 1A diodes today thanks to this post here: http://www.element14.com/community/message/42895

My goal is to use a 3 way switch to choose between full 5v, ~ 3.6V, OFF. Each diode run in series will drop voltage ~ 0.7V. I have been checking the temps with 1, 2, 3 at idle and load. So far 2 (~ 3.6v to fan) diodes appears to be the best compromise between sound, vibration, and temperatures. Primarily running at idle, it will be nice to have a cooler running machine that's also doesn't churn out at the full dB level of the fan at 5V.

Here's results:

Stock fan:
Idle: 62C
Load: 92C

5V Mod Fan:
Idle: 46C
Load: 81C

3.6V Mod Fan (2 diodes):
Idle: 50C
Load: 87C

Next steps: I ordered a 3 way switch and plan on mounting it to the back cover. Also want a convenient way to plug into USB without need for an external plug. May just solder to the USB 2.0 pad since all I use that for is my Logitech Unifying Receiver, I'm sure both together wouldn't draw more than 500mA.


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JUNE 4, 2012
Ok, here's the start of my fan mod. Took a 60mm x 10mm thick 5v fan, made a USB to 3-pin adapter from spare parts (for now), plugged in and here's temp results:

Idle:




At Prime95 load:




After 20 minute BF3 session:



Open spoiler tag to see images of the mod.

fan
Bottom of panel with fan attached.


Other side of panel (inside):


Inside side view:


Outside side view:


Loose cable plugged into USB (for now)



What I did:

(1) Drilled holes for fan, using fan as template
(2) Cut clearance hole for fan using dremel
(3) Sliced clearance on corner of fan to slide over bottom panel at top, and cut off half of bottom screw hole locations. This way it would sit up inside the bottom panel by a few mm to reduce external protrusion.

This mod requires the laptop to be propped up. However, I can easily remove the bottom panel and replace it with stock one if needed in a few seconds. It is definitely loud. Used this fan: These are Specialty 5 Volt Fans. Not for use on Standard computer 12V Power supply. (16.1 CFM).

My next steps are to get a manual voltage regulator so I can adjust fan speed. Problem is finding a 5V fan controller when most are 12V. I also want to get a USB pass through connector of some kind so that it isn't consuming a USB port all the time.

 

can't wait to see what you think of it! what are your specs that you bought it for? if you get a chance, do you mind maybe posting some temperature readings during normal use and perhaps even during gaming? If you get to it.

I'll be getting one soon, when did you order yours/how long did it take from moment you ordered to moment you received it?

 

Wow, that was fast build time on Sager's part.

For the review, could you try benching with different vram frequencies (e.g. underclocked/overclocked). It'd be nice to see how much the 650m is bottlenecked by the vram, if at all.

 

I plan on doing a regular review, regular clocks, etc with temps. Then I will do game benchmarks along with actual in-game performance with stock vs overclock GPU. But that part will take a while.

 

If I'm mostly going to be doing gaming and some word processing, etc... for school do you think the i5 would work fine? I ordered with the i5 however I was thinking about getting it replaced with the new IVB processor at some point like a year from now.

 

Nice, looking forward to your review HT, will be checking back here throughout the evening for the goods!

 

I've made an account on the forums just so I could also cheer you on, looking to order one this weekend but still having some doubts (extremely hard to please when it comes to IT-hardware, as most of you here I guess).

Looking forward to the review, specially in terms of the temps and the fan noise that accompanies it. That's the only part totally unknown atm, what happens when the GT650M kicks in.

 

I thought sager had updated with the latest graphics drivers. Do you have to make any driver updates out of the box?

 

I second this post. I'd suggest trying to measure the noise in decibels - if you don't have a device to do it, I'm sure you have a phone with access to an app store.

Thanks HTWingNut in advance for the review! This is exciting for all of us

 

Thanks for the suggestion, I'll be sure to give back my objective feedback on the fan noise. I don't have any way to measure that really, but I can try to come up with some comparison. My problem is its hard to have a quiet house since I have two little kids always running around and screaming or jabbering their mouths nonstop. Which is weird because I never say anything, lol.

I downloaded all the drivers ahead of time from Sagers site because I didn't want to have to hook up a DVD drive and also wanted to make sure I had the latest, although it looks like what is on the DVD and site are the latest and only drivers available at the moment.

Unfortunately I have to work tomorrow. I may actually go to bed early and get up really early (like 3am) to do some testing without kids up and around.

 

You can probably find a Db monitor from Android Market er Google Play.

 

Wow grats on getting it this fast. I ordered mine on the 29th from Larry as well but I didn't get rush delivery. I look forward to the review.

 

since you didn't get it with an OS, how are u installing the drivers? Can you walk us through that a little, especially given that there isn't an optical drive?

Did you just plug in a USB optical drive and pop your disc into that and install, then drivers and utilities?

 

There's lots of how-to's on installing Windows 7 to a flash drive and installing windows using that.

Then I just downloaded drivers from another computer and put them on an external hard drive. It seems the drivers on Sagers website are pretty current.

 

I'm really excited to see a review of this model. Many thanks for taking the time to write one up!

I'm particularly interested in what kind of battery life we can expect from this computer, fingers crossed for 5+ hrs with a quad core!

 

Great. I would really like your opinion on the heat dissipation issue. By moving up from a 35W unit to a 45W unit, the CPU will consume more power and thus will cause more heat. Will this make a big enough increase in the idle temperature? Do you think that temperature will decrease the lifetime of the system?

PS does the stock wireless card (non-intel 6235) have that much of a noticeable difference in wireless internet speed? Can you give us an approximate figure - say, 200kb/s?

 

I can't wait to hear about the battery life on this thing. Also, did you order this from Larry without the HDD or RAM? He recently told me they currently aren't selling the np6110 without HDD or without RAM and they need to be complete machines. =/

 

That thing looks super sexy, can't wait to get mine. Hopefully USPS delivers my check to Larry today.

 

I've never used anything else than an Acer and a Toshiba. My acer gets all BF3 MW3 and all other gaming needs perfectly, but are Sager Laptops good? Never used them, may consider one next time XD

 

great..looking forward to the rest

this laptop is on my short list !

 

Meester Wingnut, if there's one thing I'd like to take away from your review, it would be to know how easy it is for the end user to get to the innards of the machine, expecially the CPU and GPU.

 

I can tell you right now it's very easy, almost every Clevo laptop ever designed has always been designed in such a way for everything to be easily accessible by popping off the bottom of the laptop. This one will be no different, CPU, GPU, RAM, HDD are all accessible by just popping off the bottom of the chassis and removing the heatsink for the CPU and GPU.

No need to take the whole thing apart like some other notebooks. You can have a look for yourself here by clicking on the spoiler link.

 

Congrats bro!
Still waiting to get mine, once you get her up and running let er fly!
Waiting for results.
@ Forge ( What's up dude!)

No screws in this thing, you just remove the battery and it comes right off and easily expose all the inner beauty loike Mr.Crylo said.

 

I think this is the real question:

Is the screen large enough for any real work/game?

 

Fantabulous. I guessed as such--I know about Clevo's design philosophy--but I wasn't sure how/if they would do so in such a small chassis.

Yo. Been looking at this machine to possibly replace my R1 M11x. The Clevo is clearly superior in the horsepower department, but it would also be about $300 more than what I paid for the M11x.

Eh. It'll be a tough decision.

 

Mine ended up coming with the HDD and RAM. I needed to in order to expedite the order.

First of all, sorry guys, we had a storm whip through here and lost power for a little bit, but worse of all INTERNET!

Power is back on now, so is internet (obviously) but my home server is screwed up. Can't ever have everything go right.

Anyhow, I've repasted this thing ... twice already. Once you remove the battery the bottom panel just slides right off and gives you access to everything. It took all of ten minutes to remove the heatsink, clean up the old paste, add new, screw heatsink back on, put on the back cover, battery, and boot up.

Let me just say that this thing runs ... HOT! It seems the fan pretty much does not turn on until higher temps, so idle temps run about 60C in high perf mode, and about 50C in balanced mode, but it's super quiet. Even at full throttle (Prime95 large FFT) the max fan is a bit loud, but it's a loud low tone whoooshing sound not a high pitched hum.

I've fussed with the power settings a bit, basically setting CPU performance to 0% in power options and that forces it to run at 1900MHz in high perf and 1200MHz in balanced mode. Prime95 it doesn't exceed 75C at 1900MHz. But if I crank it up to 100%, it will boost to 3.1GHz and temps go in the low 90C range, but so far haven't throttled, granted only ran like 5-6 minutes. I'll definitely be testing at minimum speed 1.9GHz which should be more than adequate for any gaming, vs full speed at 3.1GHz boost.

I'm running a battery test right now:
- balanced power profile mode
- 30% screen brightness, no dimming or LCD turn off
- SSD/hdd shutdown after 60 minutes
- Firefox with 4 tabs with light flash running, refreshing in 1,5,10,10 minute intervals.
- shutdown at 3% battery remaining

I'll report back in the morning.

I'm tired.

 

Can you run furmark if you have the time?
Just for a few minutes, would be interesting to see what temps the GPU settles into.Great to hear the fans aren't to much of an issue under full load.
What kind of thermal paste did you use?
Get some rest bro, you deserve it.

 

Thanks for the info. +rep

Given the temps, I think O'll go for the i5 version.

 

Wow, this thing is even bigger than my 120W charger for hp dv6 kinda wana switch to the 90W now, lol. Well, hopefully the battery is good enough for school so I don't need to bring the adapter.
Anw, thank you so much for the review! Can't wait for mine now!

 

That doesn't at all surprise me for the form factor. My 12.5" x220 runs really similar with an i5-2520m. I think it's just an inescapable factor of a having all that hot equipment jammed into a tiny case. As long as it stays within operating spec on temperature though, I suppose there's nothing to worry about. I've been running for over a year with my x220 and haven't had a single issue even with the higher temps.

 

Hrm. Interesting. From what I've read about Clevos, I was under the assumption that their laptops cared about lower temperatures first, and then fan noise as a distant second. I gravitate towards lower temperatures and higher fan noise, all things being equal.

Of course, if you've seen what travesties I've committed against my poor laptops, you'd know, haha.

Thanks for info, Wingnut.



And since I'm here in this thread, what does the "HT" stand for? If it means "Hyper-threaded" (making "Hyper-threaded Wing Nut") that's a clever pun.

 

Don't want to answer for him, but I'm pretty sure it stands for "Hockeytown".

Correct me if I'm wrong HT.

 

HockeyTown (Red) Wings Nut Been a fan for 30 years, even when they sucked horribly.

Although that other variation as come up time and again so we'll just say it's what you want it to be.

In any case, battery life result was a bit meh. Only about 3.5 hours using profile I stated earlier. And just don't set your machine to shut down or hibernate at 3%. Once it got below 5% this thing beeps so loud you think it's a fire drill. It woke me up and wondered what the hell that noise was. So I manually shut down at 4%.

I'll have to fuss with settings. Like power saver and setting CPU to 0% in the power profile, which will run at 1200MHz, which I'm sure is still more than sufficient for anything you can throw at it considering it probably beats the pants off my AMD A8 and that A8 manages everything just fine.

What I don't like about power saver though is it turns off aero and there's no way around that that I know of. I also have a feeling that I will be running in "balanced" mode most of the time or make my own "high performance" plan limiting CPU just to keep temps lower. But for testing at first I will just leave it at stock high performance so we can all know what this thing can do.

I'm typing all this at the moment on this machine and it's very comfortable to me. I'm an 80-90 WPM typist and find it very comfortable, no missed keys or anything. I'll try to get in a couple benches like 3DMark Vantage and 11 before I go to work.

Then I will try to spend a large part of my weekend doing benches and writing a full formal review. But first I have to get a "feel" for the laptop's abilities and set a baseline that I'm comfortable with. Feel free to ask questions, of course, and I will do my best to answer.

 

can u plz do a 3d06 too? would be very nice for me

 

Click on image to expand full size

Furmark 1280x720 windowed for 5 minutes, GPU @ 84C
CPU @ 80C

 

This thread has been very helpful so far. It confirmed my worries about the quad-core cpu, though. With high temps and 3.5 hours of battery with a light work load I'm thinking an i5 might fare better. I'd like to see a battery test for a intensive game or app.

 

I will be doing some extensive testing on battery with both HD 4000 and 650m, if the system will let you use it at all while on battery.

I think with setting balanced profile and limiting CPU to 1.2GHz it may actually fare decently.

Here's 3DMark Vantage at 1280x1024 (default) connected to an external monitor. I will run at 1280x768 since that will fit on the screen and likely what most people will be using.



Here it is at 1280x768: http://3dmark.com/3dmv/4061806;jsessionid=18csli3rnhetz1fw8edbqb2ck5



And here it is limiting CPU to 1200MHz. Cuts CPU score in half, but that doesn't mean much for games really.



I think I will do benchmark comparisons between full high performance and with CPU @ 1.2GHz to check performance and temperature. However so far I am thinking a dual core may be the better route.

 

Do you reckon a 'matte' screen would be better?

 

Have you or can you play BF3, caspian border map with 48-64players 30min-60min med-high graphic setups, (if possible, hole this time under the same map) and then watch the temps +how warm is keyboard under left hand? =)

 

If possible please benchmark at 1080p. Many people would like to see just how 'crippled' this ddr3 version is at 1080p since we would like to have a small portable laptop that we can hook up to monitor(s) at home. Also AFAIK there are no 1080p benchmarks yet.

 

Yikes. Those temps look a bit concerning. Why the 3610QM versus the 3612QM? Cost? I wonder if the 10W less TDP would help. I was going to get a 3612QM anyway for VT.

 

Matte screen from what we know is same as the glossy, just with a matte coating.

No gameplay yet but I will be sure to run BF3 this weekend, and I will track FPS along with temperatures. I plan on doing a few iterations: stock, limit CPU to 1.2GHz (balanced), limit CPU to 1.9GHz (high performance).

Sure. I will hook it up to my 1920x1200 monitor and run a few games at that resolution. For now I intend on trying BF3, Skyrim, and Starcraft 2

Cost, and not available from Sager. I could have gone with Mythlogic, but it would have cost hundreds more for one of their systems with the 3612QM not to mention 6% Michigan sales tax I'd have to pay.

The i7-3610QM and i7-3612QM are identical chips, just the 3612QM are clocked 200MHz lower and actually just hand picked from the 3610QM's.

Your other option is a Sandy Bridge dual core until Ivy Bridge dual cores become available. I may end up swapping out my 3610QM for a dual core Ivy down the road if I can't get temperatures or battery life under control.

Unfortunately (well fortunatey too) I'm at work right now and through today, so won't be able to touch the machine until this evening.

It will be good to get feedback from other users though as far as temperatures when they get their units to make sure mine isn't running hot for some reason. I did a couple 3DMarks with the stock paste before I changed it to IC Diamond, and the IC helps a little bit, but not as much as it had in the past, and I changed the paste twice so far.

Prime95 shoots the temps straight up to 90-92C however, it seems to run fine. I'll do an extended run later though to see if it throttles.

 

Excellent work!
Thanks for the furmark run.
Even with a 45W Quad CPU it runs relatively cool in this small size,it maybe a dual core i5 IVB might be a better match and have lower temps but all my main concerns have been answered.
And to those that say the temps are too high, they aren't too bad, I have had bigger laptops with dual fans run hotter with absolutely no problems, people should be very happy with these temps.
Great job and + rep, I will be following this thread very closely today.

 

+rep

Thanks for all this info, mine will be here on Tuesday (I hope) I got IC Diamond and the 3610qm as well.

One question for you: Is there a way to disable HT on this CPU?

Thanks

 

Wow! You are a juggernaut of this community.

Have you found any options to underclock/undervolt the cpu other than using the windows power management tools?

 

Ok, time to remember my thermodynamics class... I'll design some mods for this one . I just need to see it physically to make some measurements also I need to check contact areas, pressures etc. Btw these temps are not too bad* considering the thermal specs of the quad Ivy paired with that gpu, I'm not that sure if a dual cored cpu would make things way better.

Btw @HTWingNut be VERY careful if you try to do an undervolt on this thing, since you are testing unknown waters.

 

Do you have a laptop cooler to test with it. I would interested to know if that would help with the temps.