Deadsmiley's Review of the Sager NP8278 / Clevo P170SM-A

What you are about to read is my very subjective view, so keep that in mind. This is my experience with the machine for a week. I have spent some time banging on the thing so I have a good feel for it.
This is not a HTWingNut, Mr. Fox or johnksss review. I am pretty awesome, but not that awesome. :thumbsup:


The laptop this replaced:

Dell Precision M4500
i7 M640 Dual Core 2.8GHz
15.6" 1600 x 900
8GB Crucial (maxed out)
256GB Bulletproof SSD
320GB WD Black
Quadro FX 1800M

My Dell Precision M4500 has been very good to me. Basically all I have done to the thing is blow out the fan/heatsink fins every now and then and run it. It got an upgrade to a Bulletproof 256GB SSD a couple of years ago. That sold me on SSDs and I will never go back to a HDD for the primary drive on my main machine. I also have a full docking station that I am dearly missing. It was really nice to just pop the Dell into the dock and go.

On my desk I have two Asus VS248 24" 1080 displays. They have HDMI, DVI and VGA inputs and they look really nice for the money. They were previously connected to the Dell dock via DVI and worked very well.



The laptop I bought:

Sager NP8278-S (Clevo P170SM-A)
17.3" 72% color gamut 1080 display
nVidia GTX 880M
i7 4810MQ
32GB RAM
1TB Samsung 840 EVO
1TB HGST Travelstar 7K1000, SATA 6Gb/s, 32MB buffer, 2.5-Inch 1TB 7200 RPM
Blue-ray burner
IC Diamond thermal compound
Windows 7 Professional



First impressions:

I expected it to be a lot bigger than my M4500 which is a 15.6".

Spoiler

This Sager is 1/2" thicker, 1 3/8" wider and about 2 pounds heavier. It is about the same depth because the M4500 has and extended battery that literally extends out the back. The size and weight don't really bother me. I am used to carrying around a heavy laptop. I use it for work and this thing will see the production floor of many manufacturing plants before it's life is through. So you understand when I say I needed something rather plain looking (industrial, if you will..) I think it looks nice. It looks professional.

Spoiler

Power brick:

The power brick is 230w and it's big. It probably weighs in a good pound and a half more that the 130w Dell brick.

Spoiler

Keyboard:

The keyboard is a lot nicer than I thought it would be. The only real problem I have with it is I keep hitting the Num Lock when going for the backspace. It's something I am adjusting too just like I did when I got the M4500.



Touchpad:

My Sager came with a Synaptics touchpad and it's pretty decent. I expected worse and was prepared to replace it. I don't think there is any need as this works well. I normally use a wireless mouse so I turn it off as I have a nack for hitting the touchpad with my hands while typoing, sending the pointer off to another screen.



Screen:UPDATE: 10/10/2014

The screen is quite nice. I am glad I sprung for the 72% color gamut. It's what I look at all day so it needs to be a good looker.

I replaced the screen with a used display that I bought off eBay. Chi Mei N173HGE-L21 REV.C1 17.3 Full-HD 1920X1080 Glossy LED

This is the same screen I had before with the exception of the glossy finish. The matte looked nice at first, but after a while it the just looked grainy. I wasn't really sure about this swap, but it was super easy. It took me about 20 minutes. I figure the next time it will take about 10 minutes. I used the guide [which needs to be stickied] found here:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/sag...-lcd-panel-clevo-shell-pictures-included.html

After using the glossy screen for a few days I can't go back to the matte screen. This screen had the same specs as my previous screen (Chi Mei N173HGE-L11) but it is MUCH sharper. I never had an issue with the brightness or the colors, all of that is good to my eyes. I do turn down the brightness in a darkened room as it's too bright. In a well lit room it's not overpowered by the ambient lighting. I know a lot of people like the matte screen. I guess I am not one of them.


Work performance:

Performance is good. I loaded up three VMs with WinXP, Win7 and Win8. I also ran AutoCAD, three web browsers (IE, Firefox and Chrome), Excel, and two eDrawing viewers. This used a tad over 17GB of system RAM. My CPU utilization was around 15%. System responsiveness remained high. I am very happy.



Battery life:

I did not test this. For me the battery is just a UPS as I almost never go unplugged from A/C power. This is not to say I don't need a laptop. I do, as I travel with it nearly every day. A desktop would never work for me.



Gaming/Graphics performance:

In games I can run Hawken and MechWarrior: Online at max settings at 1080 with complete fluidity. It's nice. I really only tested Hawken. Everything was put on Ultra. All power sucking checkboxes where checked including the nVidia specific ones. The loweest frame rate I recorded was in the high 40's. Mostly it was 60+ fps. After 20 minutes I saw a max of 79C on the GPU with a room temp of about 78F (26C), so this isn't bad at all. The computer is just sitting on my desk.

I was thinking at one point I should have saved myself $300 and gotten the GTX 870M. I am glad I spent the money on the 880M. I will be keeping this for three years and at that time I will get the flagship graphics card again. I have no regrets.

At first I was really bummed about the 880M. I was running FurMark and getting right at 90C temps on the GPU and the card was throttling down to 405MHz. The kind folks here pointed out the err of my ways. FurMark isn't a real world test and it has damaged hardware in the past. For this reason the nVidia drivers automagically throttle the GPU when FurMark is detected. I won't be running FurMark again.

Here is a stock clocks run with my Fire Strike score. It looks to be about what we expect to see.

Spoiler

UPDATE: 4/28/2014

I updated nVidia drivers to the GeForce 337.50 Beta and gained over 100 points in Firestrike: 5603

NVIDIA GeForce GTX 880M video card benchmark result - Intel Core i7 4900MQ,Notebook P17SM-A


UPDATE 5/1/2014:
3DMark 11 test added. This is with everything at stock settings. NO overclock or other tweaks other than running the fan at max speed.
Driver version: Nvidia 337.61 Beta Hotfix driver

Spoiler

Linkage if you want to take a peek.
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 880M video card benchmark result - Intel Core i7 4900MQ,Notebook P17SM-A

UPDATE 4/24/2014:
I have been playing some games in earnest now and all I can say I say is that I really enjoy the machine. One game that I really liked, but my M4500 could barely handle at 720 with the lowest settings was MechWarrior: Online. Despite the demands of this game my son and I played it a LOT a few months ago. He has a Dell XPS 15 with a GT 640M so didn't have much trouble with it.

MechWarrior Online videos on Youtube with MSI Afterburner OSD. My son's mic was captured along with the game sounds. My mic was not configured to be recorded. He plays on a Dell XPS 15 with a GT 750M. It's a nice machine.

Youtube Videos (1080p):

Spoiler

[video=youtube_share;jSkvR-v95Vc]

[video=youtube_share;PszUeYBqPlc]

Or, if you would like to see the videos without the Youtube loss of quality, here is a link to my Dropbox:

Spoiler

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/c5wkw3ozam8zj4t/YZNovjT-Gw

Right click in the video and "Save Link As" to get the file. Otherwise you will see it in compressed format (which defeats the purpose).

Noise:

As I type this it is almost silent. While gaming the fans do ramp up. I do not find it objectionable and I did expect it. Really... I thought it would be much louder after reading some reviews on previous models.

UPDATE 4/24/2014:
I took my new laptop to a customer site and worked in their engineering office for a day this week. It really is quiet during normal office work.
As the (old) song goes, "She's lady on the street but a freak in the sheets." :thumbsup:



Things I don't like:

I use two Asus 24" 1080p monitors with DVI connections to the Dell dock. It was just really handy. Since Sager/Clevo does not have a dedicated docking station I bought a Plugable USB 3.0 dock. The biggest problem is the Dell dock provided DVI video (and DisplayPort) outputs. The Plugable uses DisplayLink drivers over USB 3.0. It looks great but I haven't been able to start a game on the external displays with it. For now I am using the two external displays with HDMI/HDMI and DisplayPort/HDMI cables. The Plugable dock is used as a high dollar USB hub, gigabit Ethernet adapter and sound port. So... it's not 100% perfect.

I will play with the Plugable some more and see if I can get it working better. I have read that I won't be able to play games with video going through the Plugable USB 3.0. However, I could run FurMark and YouTube videos through it with no apparent video lag. This requires further testing.

A small annoyance is the OSD for Cap/Num Lock. Sometimes it obscures what I am looking it. This occurs primarily when moving from the desktop to a virtual machine.

I was thinking that the GTX 880M would help out with viewing models in eDrawings (Solidworks viewer). Alas, this was not to be. I had forgotten that this takes a workstation class graphics card. I took a small side trip, modified the inf file for the Quadro drivers and installed them. It didn't work. While the drivers installed fine and it was utilized in games, the eDrawings viewer didn't see it as a Quadro. I am pretty sure that I would have to modify the hardware ID on the card itself to get this to work and I am not willing to do that. Even without the graphics card helping (the 880M GPU load sits at 0%) viewing models is a lot better than with the 3+ year old Dell M4500 and it's Quadro FX 1800M. Sigh...



Final thoughts:

Overall, I am pretty darn pleased with the Sager NP8278-S. The machine is fast and stable. I have had no lockups, freezed, BSOD, balks, stutters, hickups that weren't user induced.

I guess if I wanted a dock and Quadro graphics card I could have gotten a Precision M6800 with a K5100M and it still would have been plenty fast and quite the upgrade. The M6800 would have cost me quite a bit more outfitted with the Quadro K5100M.



UPDATE: 6/1/2014

svl7 and Johnksss have released their modded vBIOS for the GTX 880M!


My 880M always throttled at stock clocks. VERY frustrating. Now it doesn't throttle at stock clocks.

3DM11 scores

Stock Clevo vBIOS:
P8372, Graphics Score 8595
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 880M video card benchmark result - Intel Core i7 4900MQ,Notebook P17SM-A

Highest overclock with stock vBIOS
+70 core, +470 memory
P8940, Graphics Score 9348
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 880M video card benchmark result - Intel Core i7 4900MQ,Notebook P17SM-A



svl7 OC vBIOS:

P8498, Graphics Score 8836
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 880M video card benchmark result - Intel Core i7 4900MQ,Notebook P17SM-A

For comparison I will run the card at the highest clocks I could manage with the stock vBIOS

+70 core, +470 memory
P9102, Graphics Score 9656
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 880M video card benchmark result - Intel Core i7 4900MQ,Notebook P17SM-A


Now I am running at +100 cor, +0 memory. The first run crashed so I bumped the voltage to 1.050v and it completed just fine. The core is getting hot. I reached 90c during this test.

+100 core, +0 memory, +50mv core (1.050v)
P8963, Graphics Score 9482
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 880M video card benchmark result - Intel Core i7 4900MQ,Notebook P17SM-A


Let's try this again with a memory speed bump.
+100 core, +470 memory, +50mv core (1.050v)
P9155, Graphics Score 9834
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 880M video card benchmark result - Intel Core i7 4900MQ,Notebook P17SM-A

But... the core reached 93c this time around. I think I am done with 3DM11.


Firestrike score
+100 core, +470 memory, +100mv core (1.100v)
6283, Graphics Score 7119
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 880M video card benchmark result - Intel Core i7 4900MQ,Notebook P17SM-A
Peak of 91c on the core... gotta work on cooling.


Thank you so much svl7 and Johnksss for "unbreaking" our GTX 880M graphics cards!


UPDATE: 6/27/2014
For those that are interested, I posted up my Sager/Clevo cooling mod here:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/sag...adsmiley-s-gpu-cooling-mod-np8278-p170ms.html


UPDATE: 6/29/2014
I repasted with MX-4 and did some other work to get my 3DMark 11 score up to 9650. Details are in a the post linked below.
http://forum.notebookreview.com/sag...-sager-np8278-clevo-p170sm-4.html#post9707087


UPDATE: 7/20/2014
I finally got my 330w power supply and put it to good use. Tonight I ran a 3DMark 11 score of 10013. It's a (very distant) second place to Johnksss, but I will take it.

NVIDIA GeForce GTX 880M video card benchmark result - Intel Core i7 4900MQ,Notebook P17SM-A

Spoiler

Here is a link to the GTX 880M rankings. Select 1 GPU from the pull down menu.
Search GeForce GTX 880M

Spoiler

UPDATE: 7/21/2014
Tonight I ran Firestrike with the 330w power brick: 6620
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 880M video card benchmark result - Intel Core i7 4900MQ,Notebook P17SM-A

Spoiler

At Meaker's request... Firestrike Extreme: 3318
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 880M video card benchmark result - Intel Core i7 4900MQ,Notebook P17SM-A

Looks like it's pretty much 1/2 of Firestrike. I noticed that my CPU is throttling due to heat. Probably need to back off the watts in XTU or something...

Spoiler

Ok, just topped that with a 3332.
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 880M video card benchmark result - Intel Core i7 4900MQ,Notebook P17SM-A



UPDATE: 10/10/2014: Cooling mods and other stuff.

Deadsmiley's GPU Cooling Mod
http://forum.notebookreview.com/sag...adsmiley-s-gpu-cooling-mod-np8278-p170ms.html

Ok, I have lived with this machine for about 6 months now. The GTX 900 series is out. I think I am gonna wait on upgrading the GPU. I would like to do it, but it's very hard to justify when what I have works for me at 60fps (capped) in the games I play.

I didn't think the weight would be much of a burden as I carry it around just about every day for my business. It would be nice if it was lighter but it isn't so I just use both shoulder straps on my backpack. I have to admit that my backpack is jammed full of various cables, notepads, pens, a mouse pad, wireless mouse, phone charger, flash drives, headphones, etc... so it's not just the laptop that makes my bag heavy. All that other stuff adds up to probably 1/2 the total weight.

The thing is indeed speedy. I am really spoiled if I have to use a different computer I get impatient with it pretty quick.


UPDATE: 1/9/2015: ASIC quality.
Just checked ASIC quality on the GTX 880M and it's pretty good.

 

Nice review, glad you like the machine thus far. Seems like Clevo does improve their machines at every iteration, so there's some progress.

And yeah the OSD for CAPS annoys me to no end, especially when it cuts me off in the midst of typing a long sentence/paragraph.

It's a shame none of the resellers are willing to offer the Quadro K5100M as a default option, because it seems like that would've been the perfect card given your workflow. At stock it has 90% of the gaming performance of a 780M, and you might be able to OC it to 780M or even 880M level performance.

 

Thanks!

Mythlogic offers the Quadro K5100M in this machine. It's really pricey and at the time I didn't think I would need it. I don't actually need it. The CPU is strong enough to grunt it out.

Sent with love from my Galaxy S4

 

Yikes, $2000 for a K5100M from Mythlogic, that's a bit steep. You can find one for $1350 on eBay, and you could even snag it for $1000 if you don't care about it being used. But yeah if the 4810MQ can power through it all then no point in wasting that money.

 

Warranty support is a bit different though

 

Hahahaha! Yes sir!

 

Updated with some additional comments and gaming videos.

 

You could move to a quadro later if you like.

 

Maybe when Maxwell Quadro arrives.

Sent with love from my Galaxy S4

 

If support could be modded in (or there are no bios issues) it would be a nice jump.

 

Yeah I think so too. The 880M is a good performer in games but it runs hot. I think a Maxwell Quadro would be pretty awesome. I have even thought about contacting Upgrade Monkey about trading in.

Will the laptop run without an MXM card installed?

Sent with love from my Galaxy S4

 

No, without temperature feedback the EC freaks out.

 

That just means if I want to get a Quadro later I will have to buy it and sell my 880M after.

Sent with love from my Galaxy S4

 

Pretty much yes since there would not be any super cheap filler cards you could get either.

 

Updated to GeForce 337.50 Beta drivers and gained over 100 points in Firestrike. Updated my posting above with a link to the results.

 

nVidia really needs to step up and provide a proper driver for the 880M.

 

There is always a lag of a few months with the mobile chips. You can use a modded inf for now.

 

But does that provide proper driver optimizations?

Regardless, once mature 880M drivers are released hopefully the performance will improve further.

 

Update 5/1/2014

Added 3DMark 11 benchmark result. Dunno why I didn't do that earlier.

 

Since the 880m and 780m point to the same driver (identical cards) I doubt there would be issues.

 

Updated with results from unlocked vBIOS, w00t!

 

I just ordered this same exact laptop with the same exact specs. Should be here in 2 days. Im so excited. My question for you is where did you get your vbios? ive found a few here and there but im really nervous about using a vbios from somewhere im dont know is safe if you know what i mean.
Thanks

 

You can get it here after you have 5 quality posts or make a donation to the forum. These guys are well know and I think it's very safe. However, use at your own risk.

NVIDIA Kepler VBIOS mods - Overclocking Editions, modified clocks, voltage tweaks

 

Yes no viruses or the like but flashing done incorrectly can brick your system, read any guide very carefully.

 

Ok ive got the new vbios in. Everything is running smooth. Now the problem im getting is I cant seem to find an overclocking utility that will work right. What did you use to get the overclock on yours? Ive tried MSI afterburner and did the mod to the cfg file and what not to fully unlock it and i cant get voltage control no matter what i do. Also i cant get the memory to keep any setting i give it. I can over clock the core no problem but the memory just reverts back to +0 after i put anything in there. I tried EVGA Precision and got the same problems with it.

Thanks for the help. I did reference you on the other site and paid the 5 bucks for access to downloads. thanks for that

 

MSI Afterburner is what I use for an OSD to monitor the card while in games. For overclocking use nvidia inspector. it will do everything you need with the unlocked vbios.

Sent with love from my Galaxy S4

 

Ok i installed nvidia inspector.. Im getting the same exact problem... Cant get the mem clocks to change.. They just reset back to 0 offset when i apply. Could it be that im using Driver 337.88?

 

never mind i figured it out.. it was stuck on intel graphics lol

 

Good info, still loving mine but the itch gets me and am considering the modded BIOS , didn't know there was a vBios. wondering how much more performance i could get out of my 860M

 

Even if you move the slider down?

 

For those that are interested, I posted up my Sager/Clevo cooling mod here:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/sag...adsmiley-s-gpu-cooling-mod-np8278-p170ms.html

 

I have been have some discussions over in the Alienware section. After LOTS of testing I determined that my GPU was simply running too hot to be pushed any harder. I did a hardware mod that involved cutting a big ol' hole in the bottom cover to let more cool air into the GPU fan.

That helped a lot.

Today I repasted with MX-4. Before I applied paste I took the heatpipe to my garage and used 1200 wet or dry along with a 1-2-3 block on the 1" end to flatten and smooth the die contact surface of the heatpipe. I also slightly bent the springs on the heatpipe to apply a little more pressure on the GPU. The results were quite good.

I ran this at 1153 core, 1475 memory, 1.0875v. Temps did hit 92c so I am at my limit again. I saw a Kill-a-watt load of 278w at the wall with my 230w AC adapter.

Again, cooling is my limiting factor... although I am not sure how much more my AC adapter can take!

3DMark 11: 9650
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 880M video card benchmark result - Intel Core i7 4900MQ,Notebook P17SM-A

Spoiler

Firestrike: 6326
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 880M video card benchmark result - Intel Core i7 4900MQ,Notebook P17SM-A

Spoiler

 

Did you Fn+1 max fan? Also forced induction by having a fan blowing directly into the GPU fan would help.

I wonder if the 330W PSU for the SLI laptops could work for your P170SM-A.

 

Yep, I have the fan running at max with Fn+1. During gaming I am seeing 67c running 993/1475. No throttling. I am pretty happy with the results.

 

Yep those are some amazing temps indeed. Got all my tools ready, just need a replacement cover + adhesive and the GPU cooling mod will be on its own.

Incidentally, I must say even just cutting in a straight line isn't as easy as I thought it would be with a Dremel, so props for that perfect circle.

 

It is far from perfect. Looking back, if I had the correct sized hole saw and placed it flat on a 2x4 I could have cut it like that and it would have been a lot better. Thank you for your kind remarks though. :thumbsup:

 

Oops, I missed this question. I don't know but I am seriously thinking about getting one to see if it's compatible. And by that I don't mean just plug it in and see if my laptop explodes. I would test voltage on the pins with a meter. THEN I will explode my laptop.

 

haha good idea. In the case of P570WM though it would be the PSU that explodes

 

The pin outs and polarity are the same

 

*** boom! ***

 

There is a handy dandy diagram on the brick itself if you don't believe me

 

My "boom" comment was made in jest. I have have seen the diagram. Mine has one too. They are the same between the 230w, 300w and 330w. Now I just need to source one.

 

AC Power Adapter - Replacement Laptop AC Power Adapter Charger For Clevo / Delta ADP330AB D 330W

I'm going to get a converter box from them I think. Its 60 bucks. Even with shipping, its still cheaper (67.95) than the 95 plus shipping XOTIC can get it for.

 

Third party stuff typically is cheaper. But with that much power going through there I would spend the $30 more and get OEM, even for the piece of mind for your costly rig.

 

That is an OEM adapter. Its the same adapter that came with my machine (I just picked up my spare to check). Same deal with the converter box. Its a genuine Clevo AC-100.

Even RJ Tech, which has a reputation of being one of the more expensive places for Clevo parts, sells the box for 70: http://rjtech.com/shop/index.php?dispatch=products.view&product_id=30032

 

I just didnt see anything that said OEM Sager - Replacement Laptop AC Adapter.
But if you've gotten an adapter before from them and they are the same, then yah...

 

I guess you'd have to fire an email to them about the adapter. The converter box does say that its "Clevo Original" but you're right about the adapters. I find it unlikely that it would be anything but OEM though considering that its not a common enough adapter to warrant duplicating it but yeah, wouldn't hurt to ask. I was comparing the part number with my own adapter that I got from you guys, I haven't ordered anything from them as of yet, they just seem to be a legit company from what I've been seeing in reviews.

So I'll just stick this here since RJ is a Clevo dealer: Clevo Laptop Parts :: P570WM :: 330W AC Adapter for P570WM - R&J Technology, Clevo Barebone Notebook kits, Laptop and desktop system builder and let deadsmiley decide.

 

RJTech is legit and service is usually pretty fast. Price tends to be high for some items, but others are a bargain (ie new 780M + heatsink for $695).

 

So long as the brick is made by delta electronics you are good.

 

The one that came with my P170SM-A is a Chicony.