Deadsmiley's GPU Cooling Mod - NP8278 (P170MS-A)

EDIT: 6/31/2014
Just so everyone knows, most of my ideas came from others. Specifically, this thread over at Tech Inferno was primary. :thumbsup:
http://forum.techinferno.com/clevo/...-p150-p170-cooling-system-solutions-here.html

I noticed right away that my shiny new NP8278 with a single GTX 800M was running rather warm. Any attempt to run a benchmark or game of any intensity was met with fearce heat production. Reading over at Tech Inferno it was brought to my attention that the air inlets are very tiny on the Clevo. First I tried filing the vent holes larger. That did yield some positive results (sorry, nothing documented). I ran like that for a while as I continued to play with the stock vbios via Kepler BiOS Tweaker. It did see some positive results from my VBIOS tweaking. However, I soon realized that I really didn't know what I was doing. I had no past experience tweaking the VBIOS and really, I was constrained by the tools I had available to me. I decided to just wait for a modified VBIOS.

Tweaking the VBIOS did show me one thing. If I wanted to see any increase in performance from overclocking/overvolting my Clevo it was going to need improved cooling. Out came the dremel and my shiny new laptop now had an open hole in the bottom cover. You can also see from this picture how tiny the vent holes were. On the right is the air intake vent holes, or slots for the CPU. These are the same style as the GPU. All I did was cut the hole out where the fan inlet is located.

Unfortunately, my lab practices aren't great. I didn't document every test run or temperature reading so some of it is going off what I remember.

My laptop came with Icy Diamond thermal compound. In an effort to eliminate my cooling issues I removed the heatsink and repasted with AS5 (what I had on hand). The Icy Diamond was very hard and took some effort to remove. I did end up with a couple of scratches on the GPU die. It took me to a couple of attempts to get the AS5 repaste correct. The first time I didn't apply enough and my temps were really warm. The paste did not spread enough to cover the entire GPU die. The second attempt did help quite a bit. Cooling was better after a couple of days.

Icy Diamond paste. This stuff was hard and difficult to remove.

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Bad repaste with AS5. I didn't get good coverage on this one. Notice the area of the GPU die that didn't have any thermal paste coverage at all. This is not good.

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Looking at the bottom of the NP8278 (P170SM-A) you can see I have already added the aluminum tape to close off an air gap between the fan and the heatpipe fins (lower right corner).

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Big ol' hole:

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This made a big difference. I could actually run Furmark (not recommended) for more than a minute before the GPU reached 93c (again... not documented).

I ran with the big hole for a good while. Then I got to thinking about this again. There is a gap between the bottom cover and the fan shroud. If I block off that gap then the fan can't pull hot air in from the rest of the chassis. I cut some thin strips of low density foam packing (what I had on hand) and crudely taped it to the bottom panel. Again, I didn't document this step. From memory I think I saw a 3c drop in GPU temp.

I ran with this for a few days and the results were good. My tape job wasn't great and after having the back cover off one too many times the foam got loose. I was pretty happy with what I had done, but wanted a screen of some sort so that things couldn't get into the fan. I went to Home Depot and I bought a roll of black metal screening. I think it was about $7.00 or so. I could do roughly a million GPU fan screens with this roll but it was the smallest roll I could find.

I cut out a rough rectangle:

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Lightly formed it with a mallet:

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Trimmed it up:

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Applied adhesive to the bottom cover:
Got this at Dollar General for about $3.00

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I let the adhesive cure for a bit. Applied more and put my low density foam in place.

First half:

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Second half:

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Finished product! It's not beautiful, just functional and it's on the bottom.

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Looking back on it, I like this mod. I could have been a bit more careful with my dremel and I think the hole should be square so it looks a bit more "factory". Overall I am pretty damn happy with the results. I am running svl7's modded VBIOS on my GTX 880M. My core is locked at 993MHz and my memory is clocked +450MHz and it preforms well. My temperatures during gaming are from the low 70's to the mid 80's. I am OK with that. Before the big ol' hole and low density foam I was hovering around 90c during gaming. Room temp is about 76F/24C.

UPDATE: 9/2/2014

A while back I acquired a new bottom cover. The cover mod is worth a very solid 5C drop in GPU temperatures across the board. I call that a win.



UPDATE: 9/2/2014

Djask asked for an update on the sealing of the GPU fan/heatsink. I promised to do it but just haven't gotten to it. I apologize for the delay my friend.

Here you go. There is a huge gap between the GPU fan outlet and the two raditors for the split heatpipe assembly on the P170SM-A. I think there have been simular issues with the design in the past. This is one of many things a person can do to make the GPU cooling more efficient. It isn't one thing, it is a combination of many things. Fortunately, it isn't something that you have to do all at once if you don't wish too.


Here is what I did. These two pictures are of the fan outlet and the gap I have been talking about. This gap is the path of least resistance. Like water the air coming out of the fan outlet will take the path of least resistance.

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I used low density foam faced with electical tap to help block the airflow to block off the bulk of the gap. It's a stepped shape that is tough to see in the picture.

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Here are some shots of the removed GTX 880M. I just took them and I thought they turned out nice so here they are. Nothing earth shattering here just some pretty pictures.

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As an added bonus, have a picture of my aluminum tape job on the CPU fan/radiator. It is basically the same thing I did on the GPU. I just don't have a good picture of it.

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nice job, the bottom of the alienware is almoust like your last image

 

Really? I have never looked.

 

Nice job. That's bound to help. Vents blocking air flow is never a good thing. I think it's kind of cool looking to be able to see the fan like that.

 

Thank you. I like seeing the fan too. I don't like things getting poked into it while running, which is why I added the screen door. As far as cosmetics goes... it's what I call a 10 footer. Looks good at 10 feet!

 

I google the bottom of an AW 17. Holy crap... it's no wonder they cool well. Looks like a good 1/3 of the bottom is vents. Clevo needs to take a hint from the design. Seriously.

 

Mine has had no overheating issues, highest ive seen it get to was 82C after hours of playing watchdogs on ultra. I have the 870m though, so maybe that's why.

 

I was very tempted by the 870M. It is nearly as fast as the 780M and the price is a lot nicer. I still think that it's probably the best bang for the buck offering from Nvidia right now. SLI 870M makes a lot of sense in my mind. I almost did that.

 

Just make sure you get a replacement cover before you send this in for any warranty repairs. And watch out for the dust bunnies.

 

Yeah the 870m is the sweet spot for value from nvidia, a bit hot but manageable.

 

Honestly 780M might be the sweetspot right now, especially if you can get a good deal on it. RJTech is selling card + heatsink for only $695, which I think is a very good deal for a new 780M. I used to think it ran hot but after figuring out the quirks with my heatsink and pasting properly temps stay in the low 80s even after several hours of Crysis 3.

Not sure about the AW17 but for the AW18, at least for the master GPU the fan sits directly below the card, and the heatpipes are shorter than those used in the Clevo (especially the slave GPU), and all three 3 heatpipes lead directly to the GPU die, so yes temps will be lower. Although I do wonder if 3 pipes to the GPU die might be a bit overkill, and whether other components (vRAM, and especially those VRMs) are being cooked at the expense of the die running really cool.

 

ooops extra post

 

I love this mod... I might do something like this for my 9377 (for the slave GPU at the very least) if you can get a replacement lid from xotic, please keep us posted.

Its a shame that things like this void the warranty when they improve on the cooling design that Clevo totally failed at...

 

I sent an email to service at XoticPC yesterday afternoon. They have always responded with excellent service. I imagine I should know something by early next week.

 

Did you tell them why? Lol

I am working with them to see if I can get a converter box since I paid more for a second adapter than I would have for a second adapter plus the box for a 9570. I may have to do that mod for my second GPU though, would rather that than liquid ultra to be honest.

 

I told them it was not a warranty replacement. I don't think it's that big of a deal. It's just a cover and they have a presence here on the forums. It WOULD suck if my new purchased 3 year warranty was borked. It probably is anyway since the system BIOS and VBIOS have both been replaced with modded ones. Ah well...

I have looked at liquid ultra and I too am shy of using it. I think I will stick to things that aren't conductive. I am not a benchmark kinda guy. I use benchmarks to test the system and see what it will do, how it handles heat, etc... what I am really interested in is how well my machine handles games. So far it's doing an excellent job of providing me a great gaming experience.

 

I don't think they will void warranty for modding it as long as your modification isn't what killed it (ie, you send it to them because it won't POST and they see the BIOS and vbios are custom, then find out it was a bad BIOS flash - you pay however much it costs to repair that) - they and Sager both know that people mod these machines regularly.

As for the performance... I'm annoyed I can't get 993 or even 954MHz all the time and that doing so pushes my temps to the throttle point and I think I'd be satisfied if that was fixed.

 

I am going to try this mod as soon as I can source a replacement cover and grab the right tools from Home Depot. Don't really have any heat issues atm (even Crysis 3 "only" heats up my 780M to the low 80s) but of course the cooler the better. Bigger issue is the trigger point for both GPU fans is 42C, and especially on hot days when I'm streaming an HD video the master GPU fan would come on and off and annoy the hell outta me.

 

Taking a dremel to your case normally would void your warranty. Of course if you get a spare cover and swapped it, it would be hard to tell I suppose...

 

I should have specified outside of hardware mods. I was talking about him saying that his warranty is likely already void due to flashing the modded BIOS and vbios to the machine. Hard mods absolutely void the warranty which is why I think it will be interesting to see if XOTIC is able to get a replacement for him so he doesn't have to worry about it. I think that Sager would probably question why XOTIC wants one though...

 

Honestly I really don't see a direct connection between a hard mod like this and increased risk of hardware failure (well sure, the fan is more exposed, and so I guess there's a higher probability of it sucking in something it shouldn't and ruin hardware the hard way...), so I don't think voiding the warranty is justified.

In any case, probably the safest way to do it is to find a replacement cover first, do your mod on the replacement cover and see how that goes. If you screw it up at least you still have your original.

 

When trying to figure out if my shutdown issue was BIOS-related, I asked Mythlogic what would happen if I did a BIOS flash and they said it'd instantly void all my warranty for the whole system, all 2.3 years remaining of it. vBIOS mods don't void my warranty though, neither does the undervolt on my CPU (as they have their own BIOS unlocked so that I can undervolt/overvolt/overclock/etc). I didn't mention it was a prema bios I was considering, however the minute I said BIOS flash they said nope.

 

Curious that they tolerate a vBIOS mod but won't allow a BIOS flash, even though their own BIOS is based on Prema's...

But this is good to know, maybe I can finally get around to flashing my 780Ms.

 

I don't know. Honestly I think we were just frustrating each other by that point. I can't wait to just send this up and get a board replacement so I never experience my shutdown issue again. That being said, the vBIOS flash was in fact 100% necessary. With 120Hz enabled, a lot of games were giving me artifacts and graphical glitches, especially when I played in 3D. (Oh god, if you've not yet seen Trine 2 in 3D, you should go find somebody with a 3D capable rig and play it. NOW. While reading this. You're on a laptop just pick up the laptop jack in a WiMax USB dongle and go on the hunt. Pretend you're in Witcher 3). Anyway, I informed them why it was necessary and why I did it and they said it was fine. Like I said though, I didn't mention it was a Prema BIOS I was considering, and they said "if I got a bios from who knows where and put it in that'd void the warranty". But yeah, I think a BIOS flash is a bad idea for warranty.

 

Sounds like it's a gray area at best. Although I'd argue since Prema is one of their official partners and their own BIOS is a customized version of his, there's really no grounds for voiding the warranty, unless you bricked your machine during the process of flashing, then yeah ok.

 

Mythlogic uses a version in Prema's BIOS. I am unsure what differences (custom logo?) there are between Prema's regular download and the one flashed into Mythlogic systems.

Now I am curious enough to ask him. I will report back what he says.

 

Mythlogic already has a modded BIOS though. I'm sure that XOTIC and the others are well aware that most of these machines get flashed with Prema's BIOS when people get them to unlock the capabilities of their machines in full. I saw a user who had borked a flash posting in this forum and they covered it but he was charged like 200 Euros or something like that for a new motherboard but in exchange they set him up with a brand new P377SM-A when he had a P370SM originally. That was a Clevo-sourced machine though, not a Sager. Sager may view it differently entirely.

I think that in the case of normal resellers, flashing Prema's mod likely won't kill your warranty instantly but when you ship it back to them, I'd flash a Sager BIOS to be on the safe side.

The only issue with that is that the BIOS threads on here don't offer the original Sager BIOS, they might say something about a Clevo stock BIOS being flashed on there (as I'm sure that it has a Clevo logo as opposed to a Sager logo when it boots up). On top of that, flashing the Sager BIOS after flashing a Clevo one is believed to potentially cause bricks (although Prema says this is not the case at all). I guess it really is a pretty grey area and would probably be treated on a case by case basis.

 

All these mods are fun but the amount of issues and damage you can cause mean you just can't warranty them after they are.

 

I wouldn't expect XoticPC to warranty my GPU if I burnt it up overclocking it. If my keyboard or screen craps out and I haven't done anything to it then I would want that covered under warranty.

I dislike those that do things that break their machines, then expect the manufacturer to replace/repair something that the user broke.

 

In such a complex system it can be incredibly difficult to isolate a route cause of an issue or if what you have done has impacted the system.

 

Can a vBIOS flash really brick your keyboard?

I'm guessing the voiding is simply a catch-all clause because otherwise every claim would have to considered on a case-by-case basis and that is just too much work.

 

These are small companies so most of them operate in a case by case basis.

There was an example in this very forum where a user bricked his laptop by flashing the wrong BIOS for his machine which unfortunately ended in an EC brick and Clevo replaced the entire machine with a new one but charged 350 Euros for the repair. The customer got a new machine out of it and a new warranty.

It is up to the reseller in the end (there are resellers that choose to void your warranty for even opening the machine) but any decent reseller will have a reasonable policy when it comes to a gray area. If you fry your video card and you have a modded vbios on it, you should pay for the replacement video card. But if you forget to flash your video card back to a stock vbios and then send in the machine because, say, a USB port stopped working, it would be ridiculous for them to refuse to fix the machine under warranty although it would be reasonable to expect that they would void your video card(s) from the warranty.

 

^yes that's exactly what it would/should be like in an ideal world, but real life isn't ideal.

I mean, assuming a user didn't brick the machine by flashing Prema's modded BIOS, and didn't touch any of the "dangerous" switches that could lead to bricking, I see no reason to void the warranty on the entire unit unless the user's actions directly led to a hardware failure. I mean, if they wanted to void the warranty for the motherboard that would be more reasonable (but still harsh).

 

These smaller companies get most of their business through word of mouth and lose business the same way (hell I'm new to Clevo resellers and I already know about how bad Malibal is) so when it comes to warranty issues, I'm sure most are fair. Even Sager's warranty isn't entirely specific and being in a state like California that tends to favor the consumer in issues, I would say that is a good sign.

Hell even Dell... When I first got my M17x the track pad wasn't working. They walked me through over the phone how to take the machine apart, disconnect and reconnect the track pad, and I fixed it. Of course that was right after Dell bought Alienware and they still bad great service in the US...

 

I don't know. I'm gonna attribute it to a long and strained back and forth as to why my request was said. Again, I didn't say it was Prema I thought about, but it still stands. So far they've been quite lax as I expected it to be; allowing me to take out RAM and check under my keyboard and even the CMOS reset help. I think I'm a special case. But hopefully it'll all be over soon. I'm just not looking forward to being out of a even half-decent computer for another month. *sigh*.

On a side note, I asked them how much the 880M heatsink for the master GPU slot would cost, but thy didn't get back to me (probably as I made the ticket update on sunday).

 

It costs $65, and yeah lately sales seems to have been slipping in terms of following up and getting back to people.

 

I asked XoticPC about the warranty. They came back and said that the modified bottom cover would not be covered under warranty (which is logical), but they didn't see a reason why the rest of the machine wouldn't be covered. I guess it's really up to Sager in this case.

 

You would have to check with them I suppose.

 

deadsmiley is DA MAN, look what kinds of temps I can achieve by combining his mod and the U3 fan mod

 

Just a quick update. I installed the stock (unmodified) bottom cover and under load the modified cover gives me a 5c drop in temps on the GPU. I think that's pretty good.

 

It's a nice drop, every little helps

 

Hey deadsmiley, thanks for the post. I opened up my bottom fan vents as well after reading your post. Problem is, I don't have anything to cover the bottom right now. What kind of material would you recommend to cover the bottom. I think mesh is a bit too flimsy?

 

Punched out metal is the best if you can get it.

 

I like what n=1 used. It's a course screen. You are right about the mesh being flimsy. It was all I could find in Home Depot when I was there a so it is what I used.

 

What we really need is a fan grille like this (just remove the filter) or this but with a 60mm diameter. I guess you could cut the 80mm grilles down to 60mm if you really wanted to though.

I went with a coarse screen to allow maximum air intake, and also because the laptop is more or less permanently bound to the U3, so not too concerned about the fans sucking in stuff it shouldn't as the clearance is only about 0.5cm (less than 1/4")

 

Something like this would give maximum airflow:

MO-RA3 360 fan grill diamond stainless steel - Watercool Store

 

Grab it from Home Depot at 1/5th the price

 

I said something like that since I don't shop over there for smaller bits Shipping makes it a little expensive lol.

 

Of course, just realized Home Depot doesn't exist in the UK. Well according to Wikipedia B&Q serves sort of the same role, wonder if they'll have something like that for cheaper?

 

I liked the material that N=1 posted. I'll see if I can get some. The Design and Tech Unit where I go to school may have some.