[Review] My Sager NP6852 from LPC Digital (current status: setting up)

I figured I'd just start a thread from the beginning of the whole process and go from there. Computer gods willing, maybe this will serve as my thread for the long life of my new box

This post will serve as the index for everything going forward so I'm sure it will be edited to death.

Index:

• Introduction
• Ordering Process
• Specifications
• Initial Review
• Operating System Tweaks
• Initial Application Load
• Application Load 2
• Application Load 3
  
• Encryption and Data Migration
• Final Changes

Current Status: Fully Operational

 

Introduction

My previous computer was an old HP laptop that had gotten a bit long in the tooth. It was good at the time (gen 3 i7, 8GB RAM, discrete graphics, full HD screen, Blu-Ray) and I'd put a little work into it to extend it out (SSD HD, new battery). But recently, I had a fan die and I damaged a couple of (mostly insignificant) sockets on the mobo replacing it and there's been an accumulation of bezel damage across the 5+ years I've had it.

In short, it was time for a new computer. I really hadn't shopped for a computer in the years since and it took a little while to do my homework and get a feel for the tradeoffs of portability and battery life vs power.

The big limitation I had was that I was looking for a machine that could house more than 1 TB of HDD but I loved the speed of a SSD so the best way to achieve that was with a laptop with multiple HDD bays, something you really only see in the gaming arena. However, I also needed something I could use at work, aesthetically.

Eventually, I narrowed it down to Sager and was deciding between the np6852 and np8155.

Feb 20: http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/portability-vs-power-and-lots-of-storage-1500.801759/
Feb 22: http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/np6852-vs-np8155.801819/

Big thumbs up for all those who answered questions in these and other threads, especially @Taargus (who appeared to be going through the same process) but also @Meaker@Sager, @Phoenix, @Equatis, and @Frogbones.

I went back and forth between the better power and build quality of the NP8155 vs the significant cost savings ($300ish) and removable battery of the NP6852. Ultimately, I settled on the latter.

 

Ordering Process

With their excellent reputation on this board as well as some positive interactions both via email and over the phone ( @Larry@LPC-Digital), I went with LPC Digital for my reseller. I made a few modifications to the base (see below) and placed my order.

Order: Tues Mar 21 (PM, after business hours)
CC Verification: Thus Mar 23 - reading through a lot of reviews, this is a common step in the ordering process for them
Completion: Fri Mar 31
Shipped: Fri Mar 31
Arrived: Tues Apr 4 (was not home to sign so got it on the 5th instead)

Seemed like a pretty quick process for the customization. It was basically turned around in a week and arrived a couple of days later.


Specifications

I took the base NP6852 and added another 8GB of RAM, a 500 GB 850 EVO SSD, and had Win 10 Pro installed along with a couple of other little minor tweaks (repaste, dead pixel warranty, upgrade wireless). So that gives the computer the following specs.

CPU: 7th Generation Intel Core i7-7700HQ Processor
GPU: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1050Ti GPU with 4GB GDDR5 Memory
Display: 15.6" Full HD IPS Matte Display (1920 x 1080)
MEM: 16GB DDR4 SDRAM at 2400Mz (2 x 8GB)
HDD 1: 500GB Samsung 850 EVO M.2 SSD
HDD 2: 1TB 5400rpm SATA3 Hard Drive
OS: Windows® 10 Pro 64-Bit Edition
Wireless: Intel Dual Band Wireless-AC 8265 M.2 AC Wireless LAN + Bluetooth Module
Warranty: Sager 1 Year Limited Parts and Labor Warranty
No additional batteries, cables, or software at this time.
Free UPS Ground shipping and not a rush order.

 

Homework Threads

In general, I'm quite happy.

Two videos that helped me decide are below:

• OwnOrDisown - I saw a number of the videos by this reviewer and really liked them: simple and straightforward. This was for the NP5855, but I was looking more at chassis quality as it uses the same case: http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...050ti-kabylake-1k.800792/page-4#post-10470353
• @Equatis - Posted his own video, the first good one I can recall seeing of the NP6852, with a lot of focus on gaming performance: http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/sager-np6852-clevo-n850hk1-review-gtx-1050ti.802586/

There wasn't a lot of information out there about this specific model as it fills a niche of "good performance but not high end gaming". If you wanted more portability, you'd go with a non-gaming machine or if you wanted a pure gaming machine, the NP815x could be had for not much more. But here were the two primary threads I was looking at:

• http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/sager-np6852-15-6-ips-1050ti-kabylake-1k.800792/
• http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/sager-np6852-clevo-n850hk1-review-gtx-1050ti.802586/

Initial Review

• The size and weight aren't that different than my current laptop. It's in the 5-6lb range and similar sized.
• It looks professional with only a hint of gaming flair on the case. I haven't played much with the keyboard but have it on a simple soothing blue backlight. It took a couple of days for people to notice i had a different laptop (though I do work on a desk cluttered with computers) so it's great that it doesn't stand out.
  
• The IPS matte display panel looks really sharp but I don't have much recent to compare to as I'm coming off of an old TN screen. Viewing angles seem good.
• The hinges feel pretty strong but time will tell on those. There's a bit more bend on the screen than I would have liked. This is the one place I'm worried about the build quality and is the only thing that's given me pause so far. If I have one regret about going for the NP6852 vs the NP8155, this is it. Honestly, if the 8155 had a removable battery, I probably would have bit the bullet and paid the extra for it. But since I had the experience with my previous computer of extending its life with a new battery, I really liked the idea of a replaceable battery. The fact that the battery on the NP815x series isn't even customer replaceable and requires shipping back to Sager for replacement was a big factor.
• The keyboard is comfortable to me and it makes only a lightly clicky sound so it's in line with what I was expecting. My old HP was pretty stiff but we'll see if this holds up. The keyboard feels a smidge loose and I'm getting a light buzzing off of it when I type. I haven't done any really marathon typing sessions on it yet so I'll get back to you after that. I also find the touchpad to be pretty comfortable but I'm also strictly using it like a mouse: I turn off gestures and even tap to click. I use the buttons for that. While I agree with the reviews about the screen flex being frustrating, I think the keyboard is just fine. Maybe that's just because I'm used to using 3-5 year old technology.
• The battery life appears to be between about 3-4 hours with the light use I've been doing setting up, just going by percentages, which, of course, can be deceiving. I'm sure it's a lot worse for gaming and I haven't done a full drain test yet.
  
• Fan noise was present during even surfing when I started out. It's louder than my previous computer and can be a little conspicuous in the office but not jet engine loud. Once I switched to the "Quiet" fan profile in the Sager Control Panel, they rarely run as I'm not really stressing out the system at all. We'll see how that goes when I start doing some video editing.

I'll add in some temperature data after I play with it a bit. Maybe some more battery information, too.

 

Operating System Tweaks

Started up the computer for the first time, set up Windows, and then set to doing tweaks.

First things first, I renamed the computer and workgroup. IIRC, I grabbed any patches I could and I think a Windows Defender scan also kicked off at this point.

I don't think I can go through all of them and I'm not even sure I can reproduce each at this point. But, in general, I turned off as much of Cortana and the telemetry as I could. Here are three articles I was using as a rough guide, though they apply to the initial version of Windows 10:

• https://arstechnica.com/information...-much-privacy-by-default-heres-how-to-fix-it/
• http://www.polygon.com/2015/7/31/9075531/windows-10-privacy-how-to
• http://www.pcworld.com/article/2971...our-privacy-in-windows-10-piece-by-piece.html

I manage my own data and backups so I also turned off OneDrive:

• http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/...onedrive/b97a8336-62e7-476c-872c-3286c0a01cf6

I noticed a little screen fuzziness and remembered this issue with my current laptop. After looking around, the solution was to set the scaling to 100%. Another quick problem solved.

Also, using the Clevo Control Panel, I set my fan profile to silent. I'm not going to need anything too beefy while I'm setting up.


To Do
I also remember a need to get more control back on my patching with GPO. That's one of those steps that's coming next.

 

Initial Application Load

Installed Office 2013 with only a few minor tweaks off of the default.

Went to Ninite and got an installer with the following:

• Google Chrome - secondary browser
• Opera - tertiary browser
• 7zip - zip utility
• Notepad++ - light coding and text editing
• iTunes - music
  
• Steam - games
• ImgBurn - not sure if I need a burner yet but grabbed it
• Gimp - image editing
  
• Audacity - audio editing
• VLC Media Player - video playback
• K-Lite Codecs - video playback
• HandBrake - video editing
• Malwarebytes - oops: uninstalled by bitdefender*
• Spybot - oops: uninstalled by bitdefender*

Installed Bitdefender Free manually, which uninstalled Malwarebytes and Spybot.

Installed a couple of games off of Steam, but haven't tested yet.

Installed Firefox manually, as it's my primary browser and I want more control than just the defaults that Ninite give. Also installed the following extensions:

• Adblock Plus
• Ghostery
• NoScript
• Cookie Monster (since Firefox sadly took away the ability to manually accept or reject cookies a while back)

I also installed the following for Chrome:

• Adblock Plus
• Ghostery
• Decreased Productivity

For browsers, I lock down Firefox decently tight and like a lot of the manual control over scripts, cookies, etc. Chrome will also be locked down reasonably tight as a secondary browser. I leave Opera fairly open for stuff that just doesn't work with my locked down settings and I'll probably do the same with IE11 while locking down Edge. Or maybe just leave both IEs open. Still deciding on what to do there.

Still to do
Quite a bit still to do on this front (and some of these may be better classified as OS tweaks for the post above but whatever)

• Opera extensions
• Tweak IE
• Get a PDF viewer as I don't like the default Win 10 one (PDF-XCHange Editor has served me pretty well in the past)
• Any reason to get Java or .NET or just wait until something needs it?
• HP and Epson printer drivers
• Fingerprint driver
• Canon camera utilities

And a bunch more...

 

Now the first round of questions for the community:

What app is commonly used to test temps? I should probably put it through some minor paces just to see what I get.

Seems like everything's working right now. Should I use the Obsidian tools driver update? http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/clevo-drivers-update-utility-by-obsidian-pc.801464/

Not looking to overclock, but what about undervolt? Again, things are going well: should I mess with it? It almost sounds too good to be true. Increased battery life and lower temps without a downside? Sign me up!

@Phoenix , I've seen a thread of yours about lots of tweaks for Win 10 but I seem to have lost it. Little help, please?
EDIT: Never mind, found it: http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/windows-10-tweaks-and-fixes-index-post-1.779394/

Any thoughts on security software these days? I like bitdefender for being light and having a decent reputation. But I don't mind having multiple tools that catch different things and I don't like when they don't play nicely together.

 

you only need ONE tool! ESET NOD32 Antivirus. The lightest AV that doesn't interfere with your OS, has no false positives, has a built in HTTP Scanner, HIPS, detects PUPs (potentially unwanted applications) that are not detected by other AVs......

example of how NOD32 just caught a bad connection when I was visiting Twitter last night:



Be smart...be like Phoenix

 

Any thoughts about Obsidian, undervolting, or temp testing tools?

 

Mate, the Obsidian driver update utility works great.

OR you can update the nvidia drivers from their site directly and you can get all the other drivers individually from Sager or clevo sites directly if you prefer.
For temp monitory when running a furmark test for GPU or Prime 95 stress test for the CPU I use HWMonitor by CPUID as does my Reseller service dept here in Australia.

A brilliant tool that shows temps voltages etc.

I wouldnt be too bothered with undervolting unless you have specific reasons to do so. Battery life is above average for this type of laptop for ordinary generic tasks.

For security I use Kaspersky Internet Security, have done for a decade, still rates in the top 3 security suites in most testing sites.
It has zero apparent affect on performance with this hardware, ie the i7700 CPU, 8 to 16Gb RAM and a primary SSD. .

 

Application Load 2

It's been a busy crush at work the last couple of months and we had this whole giant flood problem in Houston so now starting to get back to normal. That and toddler's gonna toddle away free time. Time to update where I'm at.

First, I've started weaning things off of my old computer so the backups are as close as possible. That way, when I do the switch-over, the interruptions are minimal.

Next, I installed the latest Java to try and use NVIDIA's auto-updater on the website rather than GeForce Experience since it requires a login and, really, shouldn't. I'm trying to decide between just uninstalling it entirely and finding an old copy of 2.11.4 and blocking updates.

Also, since Java isn't supported by a lot of new browsers (Edge, Firefox, Chrome) - I'm not sure if I'm even going to keep it around. I'm not sure how many things I use that require it these days and it's just a giant security hole waiting to happen. My only way to use Java plugin items is to run old IE anyway.

Updated Windows for the first time in a few months so that took a little bit (Creator's Edition upgrade). Turned off whatever I could prevent from snooping, as much as possible.

Then, went and grabbed the Obsidian driver pack and had to update pretty much everything. First I did all the small stuff. Had a sticky audio driver but got past that. Then the two graphics drivers (so maybe that renders the entire previous point moot). It's as great as advertised. Huge thanks to John@OBSIDIAN-PC for the tool and the free NBR license. Strongly considering a higher license purchase to support the good work but I need to get home to do that rather than be on the network at work.

Time to start tackling the list from the post above:

Still to do
Quite a bit still to do on this front (and some of these may be better classified as OS tweaks for the post above but whatever)

• Opera extensions
• Tweak IE
• Get a PDF viewer as I don't like the default Win 10 one (PDF-XCHange Editor has served me pretty well in the past)
• Any reason to get Java or .NET or just wait until something needs it?
• HP and Epson printer drivers
• Fingerprint driver
• Canon camera utilities

 

You can for the moment manually enable java in chrome, but it's not long for this world.

 

What about temperatures with long game loads? (Division, Wildlands)

 

I haven't tried yet and probably won't do much with heavy duty gaming. I got the extra horsepower to do video editing. Hopefully I'll be able to try that out soon.

 

Application Load 3

Windows Tweaks I

• Set up folder redirection. As I have a 512GB SSD for (C), I'll mostly leave that for programs and large frequently accessed files. Documents, iTunes, and pictures all get to reside on the mechanical 1TB hard drive (D). When it becomes time to upgrade that storage location, that's an easy rip and replace. Also, changed my default save locations for Windows: http://winsupersite.com/windows-10/how-change-your-default-save-locations-windows-10
• Changed up permissions so I can see everything: extensions, hidden folders, etc - standard Windows Explorer stuff
• Edit lock screen images - boring cosmetics; will need to find something more interesting later

Configure Hardware

• Configured iTunes and connected iPod
  • Changed the Apple Mobile Device Service to manual as distnoted.exe was running way too heavy (and I don't have an iPhone)
  • Renamed AppleMobileDeviceHelper.exe to .old since it was hitting 12-15% CPU utilization
• Added HP Printer (it's an oldie but still works)
• Added Epson printer
  • Wireless scanning supported via Windows (yay)
  • PDF format not supported via Windows scan (boo)
  • Added Epson scan for PDF scanning
• Set up computer to download images from my Canon digital camera
• Connected Bluetooth headphones (Bose QC35's - I don't own many expensive gadgets but, working in an open workplace, the noise cancelling makes these worth their weight in gold)

Minor Software App Load

• PDF XChange Editor - I don't like Win 10's native PDF reader: https://www.tracker-software.com/product/pdf-xchange-editor
• Eraser - file and hard drive eraser: https://eraser.heidi.ie/download/
• Work VPN software - installed and tested at home
• SysInternals like ProcMon, Process Explorer, etc - downloaded and set up filers: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/

Windows Tweaks II

• Set shell edit to Notepad++ (HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\batfile\shell\edit\command -> point to notepad++ but still allow .bat to run via cmd)
• Change colors for Windows proofing tools. I write a lot of documentation with red/blue so I use green/magenta to make my spell and grammar checks stand out: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/925597
• Removed some of the useless Modern Apps from Win 10 (How to: https://www.howtogeek.com/138752/use-powershell-to-remove-multiple-modern-apps-from-windows-8/) (But don't delete all, though, or you lose Win Store and Calc and you have to remake those: http://www.thewindowsclub.com/windows-store-app-missing-windows-10)
• Rearrange Start Menu, Metro menu, Desktop

Items ordered

• Second power supply
  
• Extension Cables - since the "mickey mouse" part of the cable is only 3' long or shorter, I picked up some cheap 6' ones off of eBay
  
• Wrist pads - some company called Grifiti (found them on Amazon) makes these little wrist rests that provide some cushion while not messing with the screen closing
  
• Cables - I have a couple of "older" monitors so I needed a HDMI to Mini DisplayPort and DVI to Mini DisplayPort cable

 

Encryption and Data Migration

Since I last set up a laptop, Windows 8, Windows 10, and UEFI have hit the mainstream. So much for Ghost and Truecrypt (well, Truecrypt has other issues, too).

So, I'm looking for two things:

• Backup software that is easy for whole disk image before I get this whole thing off the ground, in the event I ever need to do a fresh image (due to Trojan, disk issue, whatever)
  
• Encryption that stymies the average thief. I'm not looking to thwart the NSA or FBI or whoever (and if you're listening, heck of a job guys - wouldn't want to be on your bad side)

Backup
First off, to back up my data (docs, pics, tunes, etc), I use a Robocopy batch script. It's an oldie but a goodie - I know it works and I just have to adjust a few directories. As long as I'm working in the OS layer with data unlocked, everything works well for this.

What I'm more concerned about is a system restore and this has gotten more complicated since Windows 7. It used to be that I could just take a Ghost, if anything happened, I could instantly restore everything, either on the existing hard drive (in the event of a virus or whatever) or a new one in the event of hardware failure. I could be back up and running in a day easy if something happened.

So, I ordered a USB drive to make a Windows 10 recovery disk. How exactly does this work:
1) If I have a virus or whatever and want a completely clean restore, will this do that?
2) If I have a hardware failure, can use that recovery disc on a different hard drive?
If the answer to both is "YES", then that covers the OS and I'm good.

Looking around, I found something called AOMEI Backupper. It looks like it works a lot like Ghost used to and works for UEFI. I downloaded and created both a disk and partition backup for my C (OS) drive. I want to test out to see if the recovery works (because, really, if not - what good is it) but I'm worried that if I do that and really mess something up, I'm out the OS on my laptop. But this would be even nicer than just an OS restore as it means I wouldn't have to do the app load if I took the image now.

Encryption
Again, I'm looking to stop the average thief who steals my computer, maybe even slightly above average. The first layer is the common thief who is mostly technology illiterate. The second layer is for someone who is pretty handy with computers and specializes in ID theft.

Back in the day, I used Truecrypt with a boot loader. For that first type of thief who booted up to a screen that wanted you to enter your password before even showing you Windows would just assume this a lost cause. But even for the second, Truecrypt had been around for a decade and had a really strong reputation of even stopping law enforcement. Heck, even when it disappeared mysteriously, there was enough oddity around that fiasco that it looked like they got shut down or had a personality issue among programmers rather than security issues. Either way, it's gone now and doesn't work on UEFI anyway. I still have 7.1a around so I could just use a container for my data on my D drive. I guess that's an option but I'm looking at other possibilities, too.

The two most prevalent solutions I've seen are just using the native BitLocker (Win 10 Pro here) or use VeraCrypt.

First, BitLocker - it's native to Windows, has a pretty good reputation, and looks really easy. However, it's also a Microsoft product which means it will be the first to have holes discovered in it and targeted by ID thieves. There was already that incident less than a year ago where you could just install Win 10 over the top and get all the information ( https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/ne...10-updates-opens-root-cli-bypasses-bitlocker/). This sort of thing does not inspire confidence and it's all to common in Microsoft products. Can you do something like just reprogram the GINA, etc and circumvent BitLocker?

Second, VeraCrypt - it's sort of a fork of TrueCrypt with a different team, updated past where Truecrypt was abandoned, and patching holes found in the security audit. Supposedly it supports UEFI and does not leverage TPM. Again, the benefit of not using the most common thing (Microsoft) is that there are disproportionately less hackers and less toolkits out there. I'm not saying it's foolproof or even better. I'm just saying that if 80% of people who use encryption use BitLocker, more than 80% of people trying to break encryption are going after BL and fewer are going after less popular software. Anyone with experience with VeraCrypt? Can this use a boot loader? How about encrypting both the OS and data drive?

So, TrueCrypt file container, BitLocker, VeraCrypt, or other?

 

Final Changes

Backup Revisited
Ultimately, I went with AOMEI for backup - I'm a little concerned as I don't have a good way to test if it works without, well, refreshing the machine and I'd rather not do that. So that's just a bit scary.

Again, if anyone has answers to the questions from above, I'd love to know them: So, I ordered a USB drive to make a Windows 10 recovery disk. How exactly does this work:
1) If I have a virus or whatever and want a completely clean restore, will this do that?
2) If I have a hardware failure, can use that recovery disc on a different hard drive?
If the answer to both is "YES", then that covers the OS and I'm good.

I also made a second Windows Restore Disk on my own thumb drive so I'm doubly backed up, I think.

Encryption Revisited
For encryption, I used path of least resistance and went with BitLocker. The interface is easy and integrated into Windows (which could also be a negative, as opined about above). That said, encryption was quick and easy. Took maybe an hour for the system disk and then another 8 or so for the 5400 1TB secondary drive.

It was a little annoying when I had one encrypted and not the other as I had redirected documents, pictures, music, and, yes, Desktop to the secondary drive. While it was encrypting, the Desktop would not work properly unless I unlocked the second drive. However, once it was encrypted, I could make the second drive unlock if the primary system drive was unlocked and it's worked great since.

Other Changes
I made this quick little change ( https://www.howtogeek.com/225844/ho...ewer-your-default-image-viewer-on-windows-10/) to make Windows Photo Viewer my default image viewer.

Data Migration
I had previously redirected documents, photos, music, and Desktop. I moved all the data into those spots and that 1TB drive is about half full. I sorted out my Desktop, Quick Launch, and Start Menu. It was time to start using this laptop for real.

Final Thoughts
Well, they're not really final thoughts but I've moved over to the new computer full time as my primary for at least a month now and am really pleased.

I haven't put it through its full paces - I don't do heavy duty gaming. I did some light video editing and that went quite well. I was impressed by the horsepower but I haven't had time to really stress the system.

Screen looks nice, but, again, I need to do a good hearty test like watching a movie in the dark. I run it at maybe 40% brightness and it's still plenty bright. I still don't like that the lid flexes a little but it doesn't feel flimsy, just not as sturdy as it could be. I'd have paid for the NP8156, even though I didn't need the 1060 graphics if I could have had the build quality. However, I really like the option of a removable battery.

Speaking of which, the battery life has been pleasantly surprising so far. Even with a replacement battery that was a couple of years old, my old laptop would last maybe 2 hours off the cord like if I were using my laptop to do some surfing and video watching. This is probably closer to double that for the mixed use I do, though I haven't done a strict battery drain test.

After a couple of weeks, the keyboard feels really nice to me. Maybe this is because I've been using 6 year old keyboard technology for the last 6 years, but this is quite comfortable. It started out a little clicky but as I've used it, either that has decreased as I've worn it in or I'm just getting more use to it.

I'm really pleased. Again, I wish the chassis were a little nicer but I'm not really worried about it breaking. It's taken a small tumble to the floor courtesy of our little one but it came away unharmed. However, it also fell in a pretty good way - it didn't land on a corner or something. I'm hoping this machine is ready to rock and roll for the next 4-5 years.