Who is this guy?
- International Customer Based in the Middle East
- 31 years old
- IT Infastructure Engineer by profession
- A passionate Gamer
- I have experience in retail, distribution, and customer service
Why I chose XoticPC
Simple Answer: They offered the lowest price.
Its worth noting that it certainly wasn't their customer service (more on this later).
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The pains of being an "International" Customer
Note! *This part should not be held against XoticPC, but I still wish to post my opinion on the matter, as it applies to most if not all sager/clevo resellers*
First off I was very disappointed that XoticPC does not accept International Credit Cards. I know its their policy and If I wished to buy from them, I have to agree to their terms of sale.
*END OF Rant*So In my opinion this policy is retarded, the risk can be mitigated in other ways. All other vendors use the following:
1.) Scan of Passport + Credit Card Front and Back + Drivers License
2.) Credit Card Authorization Form Faxed or Emailed with Signature
Amazon for example does not require any of those, and Ive been dealing with them for years.
This from my perspective just sends the following message to international customers, at least this is how I understood it.
"We don't really want your business, because we dont want to put in the extra effort, as we dont find its worth our time to do business this way, but..... if you really really really want to buy our Laptops you can send us a cash Wire Transfer"
Xotic PC's Arguments:
- If they are a victim of credit card fraud, they have no means of recovering their money (I have a hard time believing that)
- They are a AAA rated business blah blah blah so I should trust them
My Argument:
- I know thats not how fraud works, if that was the case, no business in the world would accept credit cards
- Sending a wire transfer from a bank in a quazi third world country is a nightmare
- saying that "were tripple A" says were trusted, but your not, so lets do it our way...not yours.. cause you might rob us blind
- A cash wire transfer is difficult to recall, you cant just call your bank and say reverse the payment. Its gone!
- The world consists of more than just the USA, and believe it or not its a global economy. The world is getting smaller, international customers expect to pay with their cards as well. Seeing how this risk can be managed with different payment processors or insurances I hope that XoticPC or another reseller will look into it.
Before you start thinking, yeah but how can a business rely on a bank and the credit cards it issues that they dont know? The bank that issued my credit cards is rated in the top 50 safest banks listed here:
Global Finance announces a half-yearly update Worlds 50 Safest Banks: April 2012
And to be honest, that was a deal breaker for me. I was actually angry, whats the point of having a credit card... if nobody wants to accept it, just cause you live and work overseas?
However I took a break, a deep breath, and told myself since I have no other option, if I really want that laptop I have no choice but to proceed with the wire transfer. *sighs*
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July 9th - 1st Order #1
NP9150 (All Stock Except for the following Changes)
- 95% Gamut Matte LCD
- GTX 675M
- 8GB 1333mhz
- KillerNic 1103
- Diamond Thermal Compound - CPU + GPU
- Remove All Branding
July 9th - 1st Order #1 Revision #1
NP9150 (All Stock Except for the following Changes)
- Replace GTX 675m with AMD 7970M
July 12th - Wire Transfer Details received
I did not receive the wire transfer instructions until the 12th of July. The email is long... I mean really long.. and more complicated than it should be, its almost an E-Book, dont believe me... take a look for yourself.
Removed as requested. The purpose was share my experience so that XoticPC might reformat their e-mails to make it easier to deal with them.
Now here is what that email could look like if XoticPC would put more effort into treating their Wire Transfer Customers better.
Removed @ XoticPC's request. See above....
Now wasn't that much better? Please Xotic PC change this ASAP. I shouldnt have to take notes on your wire transfer instructions.
July 15th - 7970M Phobia Started
Knowing that Xotic PC wont proceed until I wire the money, and since I was still thinking of cancelling the order I started a thread here:
7970m & GTX680m owner feedback needed
Looking at all the threads that concerned unhappy 7970M owners and my gut instinct, I really started to get worried that Im making a horrible choice. Dont get me wrong I have 2 x 7970s on my desktop in xfire.
After careful study and review of other peoples experiences I decided it was best to change the 7970M to the GTX 680M.
July 16th - New Order made GTX680M Triumphs and XoticPC is paid
I was asked by XoticPC to cancel my previous order and make a new one as I was changing the following things:
- 7970M replaced by GTX 680M
- Changed Delivery Address to my forwarder (MyUS)
- Added Copper Cooling upgrade
July 18th
I left a message via their live chat (7/17/2012 6:13:24 PM Alive Chat) asking:
XoticPC Salesperson Answers:
(*I was told that they dont have the adapter, and gave me an amazon link to international socket converter, and was informed due to different time zones it hasnt been 2 days yet*
You would think that Xotic PC would get the hint that Im concerned with their pace in terms of processing orders.
July 20th
Its been 4 days since my order and wire transfer.
Still no status changes, no confirmations of any sort. =(
Not Happy at all.
I even sent a mail to their sales team inquiring about the status of my order, and asked them to quote me for 2 additional laptops that I might order.
I know.. your probably thinking... why on earth would I do that considering how my initial order is being handled. Well the 1st order I cant change that now. And the next order really depends on how XoticPC handle my requests.
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Received two emails about an hour ago:
1st Email: Stated that my payment was short 26.50
2nd Email: My laptop was approved for production
I took this chance to remove the Copper Cooling upgrade, because as I suspected it would require for the laptop to be shipped back to XoticPC, which would delay my order up to 4 additional business days.
So Instead I asked them to add home premium win 7. This would speed up delivery, which at this point in time is top priority.
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Now that I have been informed of my status and reassured I feel much better about my order. A happy camper as some would call it.
July 23rd
Got an email that confirmed the above mentioned changes. The next e-mail I want to see is the one with the shipping tracking number.
July 31st
Xotic PC shipped my Laptop. (except for me its a two hop journey, as its going to my forwarder first, so Ill have to wait longer)
August 3rd
Laptop was delivered to my forwarder in Florida, it was shipped out same day DHL Express same day.
August 8th
Laptop delivered to my office. YAY!
August 13th
So now Im sitting in Austria, unfortunately Its become clear to me that the "a,o" key on the keyboard often doesnt register. Going to contact XoticPC for possible solutions. Sent off an email to support with a detailed description.
August 14th
A support rep asked me to file for an RMA. (Mind you I've asked for only the KB to be exchanged.)
August 20th
Ok so RMA process would have been USD 95 hold on my Credit Card, it would cost me much more than that to ship my Keyboard to the USA. And the new keyboard would not even be tested, so I may end up with a defective KB again.
Instead I spoke with MythLogic was quoted the following:
USD 40 - Stock Backlit keyboard
USD 125 - Steel Series Chiclet Backlit Keyboard
USD 50 - Labor S.S. KB Modification (they cut it to fit the P150EM for me)
USD 16 - Shipping
USD 0 - Testing both Keyboards to make sure all is well before it ships.
Needless to say I chose to work with MythLogic for the following reasons:
1.) I wont have to ship anything back
2.) Their QA team will make sure all is well before its shipped
3.) Cause MythLogic ROCK!!!!
September 10th
Since Im abroad and not familiar with import laws here in Austria my consolidated shipment had to be returned to sender (which included my replacement keyboards from Mythlogic) This was due to the fact that the consolidated shipment included vitamins which were classified by customs as "Medication" Dreamboost incase your wondering what it was. But yeah... I finally installed the keyboard (SS Chiclet). Will let you know in a few days if all is well. But so far every key I have typed seems to respond wonderfully, and there are no unregistered key presses so far. THANK YOU MYTHLOGIC!!!!
My current rating of Xotic PC Purchase Experience:
Pros:
- have the best price available
- offer discounts for bulk purchases
- functional website with useful and well presented information
- Very active on NBR forums *grins*
Cons:
- Unorganized
- Make life difficult for international customers
- Complex and redundant information concerning wire transfers
- Order changes and adjustments are a complicated process
- Communication delay, their process seems to be long and complex
- If your an international customer, I highly recommend that you look elsewhere.
Perhaps I worded things too strongly, just keep in mind as an overseas customer you have to be "extra" patient. Im trying to keep my original statements in the post so that it doesnt appear that im hiding anything.
*** Here is what I said earlier bellow, like I said overseas orders require patience ***
If you dont mind paying an extra USD 50 or so... Id recommend you deal with another company. (Which is what I should have done in the first place, and probably will do the next time I need something)
Sept. 10th 2012 Bottom Line
Would I buy from XoticPC again? The answer is a solemn "No".
I wouldnt do it internationally, and not locally either.
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I really really do not recommend getting the copper cooling upgrade. They cost ~7 dollars on amazon and will only take 1 min to install. Also, tbh I don't think the long e-mails are such a big deal.
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As for the Long Emails: When you run a business, everything must be scrutinized. Its a big deal because it represents more than just a long email.
- It gives the impression that you did not bother to take your time and think about what your putting on paper
- It makes my life as a customer more difficult
- Its the worst wire transfer instruction letter I've ever received (even when I was in the distro business)
- If a company does not care to itereate and constantly improve their workflow, you can expect the same short comings elsewhere too
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Justin@XoticPC Company Representative
Thanks for your review. Our emails are not to be posted on a public forum including our confidential bank information.
I am sorry to hear you feel the emails are too long/redundant and the updates took a little more time. Unfortunately with our over 10 Years of experience with International Wires we have been forced to include a high amount of detail (and some time redundant info) due to problems arising from International Wire Transfers or unfortunately customers not reading the details we provide. I understand it is lengthy but we have had to revise this several times over the years due to specific concerns arising on why the detail was not provided. We have seen in our experience that most customers appreciate as much detail as possible. I appreciate the feedback on where they can be more physically appealing, which will certainly be reviewed. Sometimes getting International shipping quotes and getting all the info put together in a email takes a little longer to update the customer. We will try to review this more closely to see where we can speed this up.
As you kind of hit on, merchants are not protected as well as they are domestically with International Credit Cards, this is the honest bottom line. If you only new the back end on how many times attempted fraud happens every day, it would be more understanding. Unfortunately with smaller companies the risk far outweighs the benefits.
It is not uncommon for wire transfers coming from thousands of miles away to take a few days to transfer. We receive several wires each day and our accounting department checks for wires multiple times per day.
Thanks for your feedback again, you had some good points we will review more closely.
I am sure you will enjoy the machine once it arrives. -
2.) I've censored all sensitive details, If I missed something let me know and I will deal with it right away.
3.) I know wire transfers can take up to 7 days. Your publicly stated process is 24-48 orders to confirm the order, as in to confirm the specs at least. So that once the wire is received you could proceed without delaying my order further.
4 days later this has not taken place yet.
I thank you for your constructive reply, and I keep an open mind about things to come.
*NOTE:
I've gone ahead and cleaned that up even more. -
Even with an american credit card/bank but living overseas is still a pain to deal with payments.
Like you said it shouldn't be held against resellers, in this case Xoticpc, I'm sure they do what they have to do to protect themselves and the customers. -
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2 -
Support.3@XOTIC PC Company Representative
Just wanted to clear that up for any others reading the post. -
Professional handling by XoticPC, gj
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Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2 -
You should read some past replies from malibal to see the difference
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And for buying from them as well as the feedback. That's professional.
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*smiles* well put. And I have to agree.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2 -
updated, laptop shipped. Lets hope it gets here before I travel again.
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I live in the Middle East as well (qatar) and ordered an NP9170 from powernotebooks, I used Western union because I didn't want to go through the usual annoying 2-3 days waiting period which almost ALWAYS coincide with the weekend which means 4-5 days ..etc.
I don't blame the resellers for that policy since almost everyone I know used stolen CC info in the early days of 2000s to get free stuff. I do realize that there are far more checks and security for CC trade nowadays, but CC also incurs a charge that comes out of their profit margin, which isn't huge.
Other than that it seems that their customer service including the response here are top notch. If you were Malibal's customer like someone else mentioned, you'd get punished by rude e-mails, a lawsuit, a flamewar on the forum and finally delaying your order for a couple of months before cancelling your order and calling you a whiner and immature and out to get them for personal reasons.
احمد ربك -
According to the tracking info from DHL my laptopwas delivered to my office. Can't wait to get my hands on it.
Gonna take a Samsung 830 ssd & corsair vengeance 16gb ram set with me and upgrade it.
Perfect timing too as im traveling soon, which is why I ordered it to begin with.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2 -
Got the Laptop, it was double boxed. Havent tested much on it yet, but I doubt there are any problems.
Also... got a "free black business case" for the laptop which was nice. (Although I use my crumpler back pack).
Thank you Xotic PC, I will enjoy the laptop during my long trip. -
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No dead / stuck pixels.
Ran 3d mark 11 on p & x. All went well.
Measured boot time.
Gonna test some games then upgrade and hopefully wrap up my review.
Im testing stock mechanical drive & 8gb ram @1333
Then the components in my sig and see the real world performance differences between the two.
Reading about these things is one thing, but measuring the real world improvement based on your personal usage patterns is what counts.
Example.... its a waste to buy a Lamborghini if your driving pattern is driving 60km/h all day.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2 -
Support.3@XOTIC PC Company Representative
Good to hear everything is look good so far. Keep testing the parts you got and let us know if anything isnt working right
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Tbh last time I had a 15" was like 6 years ago. Been on 13" for many years. When I looked at the np9150 I was like.. "did they send me a 17" laptop... this thing is huge"
LOL but yeah ill get used to it.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2 -
Upgraded the laptop, did a clean install. 3D Mark 11 crashes on Graphics Test 2. Well it doesnt crash, it loads to about 80% and just sits there. I can alt tab, and terminate it.. but it wont complete.
Im using the Nvidia Driver that came on the CD from Xotic 302.72. Any ideas? -
It was a driver issue. Installed 302.71 from the cd that worked. Pfew....
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2 -
Post upgrade SSD & 16gb ram
Pre-Upgrade
As you can see, theres not really a big difference between the two: (P6081 vs P5972)
Current Boot Time is 14 Seconds on SSD. -
Support.3@XOTIC PC Company Representative
Sounds like its doing good so far. How are your 3D marks scores with the 680M?
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Hutsady,
We emailed each other before and I placed an order with xoticpc - Order Number: 54820 and sent in my wire transfer thru my bank for the amount quoted 2 days ago (US$1453.34). I sent xoticpc (and someone named katie) an email informing you guys about the transfer but have not received any response on the progress which is starting to get me worried. I'm in the Philippines and have indicated that the item be shipped to my cargo handler in NY. An acknowledgement to my emails after I made my wire transfer would have been polite and reassured me that my purchase has not been taken for granted. I'm really getting worried after sending in my payment and having no idea of its progress.
Jojo M. -
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Support.3@XOTIC PC Company Representative
Bank wires can take 2-3 days to clear and i've seen up to 5 business days from international ones. Unfortunately we have no control over when the banks post them. As soon as it does clear our bank they let us know and we let you know. If it takes a few more business days and you haven't gotten an update let me know. They are a direct bank to bank transfer so they are very safe. We do receive them on a daily basis so dont worry too much.
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Hey kismat, I think I'm in the same boat as you, in terms of having a forwarder etc. I'm just curious on what you think about the warranty's and the such?
I'm torn between np9150 and asus N56VZ-DS71 (asus has global warranty which is a plus)
How would you go about sorting something out if a problem were to arise?
Thats the only thing I am worried about with ordering something in the US, in this case, xoticpc.
Thanks -
Modern movies have given most people the belief that wire transfers happen instantly, and that funds are directly moved fromone bank to the other. What actually happens is a bit less direct. Your bank sends the order out and it is processed through the Federal Reserve before being forwared to the recipient bank for them apply the funds to the correct account and in case of most businesses, notify the account holder/finance department.
For international wires, many go through an associate bank of the sender to forward through the domestic wiring systems.
Generally speaking, turn around time for a domestic wire is 2-48 business hours. So if you initiate after business hours the wire dept in you bank often can't actually initiate un the next business day.
Due the way most international wires have to be processed, you can usually count on a 3-5 business day turn around time.
Cheers,
Zen -
I would still go Sager, with or without warranty. But I know many will disagree with me.
If I had a problem I'd troubleshoot it. When I find the source of it, ill ship that part back to xoticpc for replacement. Problem solved
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2 -
Ok so now its fairly obvious that I have a dodgy keyboard. The most notable key I have problem is with the letters "a,o". Im gonna contact Xotic PC and see if we come with a solution.
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You'd think a keyboard rma wasn't gonna take long.... still no response.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2 -
Support.3@XOTIC PC Company Representative
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And honestly as an afterthought, as an international customer I think you'd be better off going for MythLogic. They seem to understand the needs of their international customers much better and act accordingly. And they make sure the stuff they ship actually works.
If your in the US XoticPC is fine. But for us international customers, RMA's costs us more money than the defective parts themselves in shipping alone in most cases. -
Justin@XoticPC Company Representative
I am sorry to hear you are having trouble with your keyboard. Sager nor us is in the business of sending out defective hardware. Every laptop is tested prior to shipping. From my understanding ANY North American Company requires shipping into them for defective hardware. I haven't seen any that offer International Shipping coverage outside North America.
Have you tried re-seating the keyboard to ensure it is making a good connection? -
It's well known that stock keyboards have issues. Many threads mention this. I'm fairly certain my laptop was not tested.
It's hard to miss a faulty "a" key when most people will use the wasd keys first on a gaming laptop.
Also to my knowledge my unit shipped direct from sager and not xoticpc.
Let's not defend the keyboard issue its a common enough, and it should not be.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2 -
Justin@XoticPC Company Representative
I am sorry that re-seating it did not work. I am familiar with the tests Sager completes on every system and the keyboard is part of it. It is in no interest of any company not to test a machine, I can assure you each and every machine is hand tested.
I am sorry yours developed a problem, we are here to help you get this replaced if you would like us to assist. If you are planning to be in the states or have a friend we can coordinate the RMA this way also. Have you tried lifting up the key and see if you see anything underneath it? You can lift it up gently and see scissor mechanism underneath. -
When someone buys a laptop regardless of the price be it USD 500 or USD 1,900++ its suppose to work. In all the years of buying a laptop online .... Ive never had such a problem. Im pretty sure faulty keys on laptop keyboards is not such a common problem with other brands.
I chose to solve this problem by going to another provider in this case Mythlogic. Now Mythlogic have said that they will test the keyboards prior to sending them out, so we can hopefully assure this wont happen again.
And FYI, at least Mythlogic was honest enough to acknowledge that there have been issues with the stock keyboards, and they try to mitigate this by testing them prior to shipping it out.
If Sagers tests are adequate enough, then why are other resellers testing the keyboards again.
I still stand by my view, that XoticPC do the bare minimum required. And having the customer assume RMA costs that seem very likely to occur even makes it easier for XoticPC to shrug off mishaps with "were sorry".
This is why I said if your in the USA, by all means you can save a few bucks by going with XoticPC, cause shipping costs within the US are not going to be high.
If your not in the USA, then XoticPC is probably not your best choice should a problem occur.
Its a minor issue yes, but its frustrating none the less, especially since this laptop was purchased mainly for use during my long trip in Europe. Which at the moment is not possible cause the A,TAB,o,l keys are not functioning as they should. In fact even a USD 6 keyboard is better than the one I have now.
It is what it is. And Im waiting for my keyboards to get here from Mythlogic, after which I can finish this review.
But you can be certain as long as Im not in the US, Im probably never going to buy anything from XoticPC in the future, and I certainly would
advise my friends to do the same.
My co-worker is watching this thread too, cause he wanted to buy 2 Laptops, needless to say that he has decided to shop around for another reseller.
You have to keep in mind, that my intention is not to flame XoticPC, but this is my opinion, this is whats happening with me now, and the point of this thread is to share this point of view, my experiences, and how I decided to resolve them.
Xotic PC - NP9150 GTX680 + 2 more - Brutally Honest Review *Updated live
Discussion in 'Reseller Feedback Forum' started by kismat, Jul 20, 2012.