R&J Technology (rjtech.com)

Here's my experience ordering from R&J Technology (rjtech.com).

I had been looking at the P770/750ZM and P650SG models for a couple of months but was waiting for Nvidia G-Sync options for the 970M/980M cards to be made available. Sure enough, Nvidia officially announced G-Sync for laptops at the end of May right before the Computex trade show, and the Clevo P770ZM-G was one of the supported models.

Since I already had an existing 1 TB SSD and 16 GB of RAM to put in the laptop, I researched Sager/Clevo resellers that sold a "barebones" configuration so I could save some money. Searching on notebookreview.com I came across R&J Technology as a reseller with a barebones option, and I ordered a Clevo P770ZM-G on the first day it was available. I selected the Xeon E3-1231 v3 CPU option as I was not interested in overclocking and it also saved money over the i7 options, and was only missing the integrated graphics support that is not used on the P770ZM anyway.

My order was shipped within two business days of payment, and the sales staff was prompt with emails on the status of my order and shipping info.

Once I received the laptop I installed the SSD, RAM, and Windows 8.1 x64 with the latest Nvidia drivers available from their web site. To my consternation, I could not find the G-Sync option in the Nvidia control panel.

I contacted R&J support, and was asked to use the Nvidia driver that came on the Clevo disc with the laptop instead of the latest download version. When this didn't help they said to try a new install of Windows with only the drivers that came on the Clevo disc. I used an older SSD to do this so I wouldn't lose all the time spent setting up the applications I had already installed. G-Sync still didn't appear in the control panel so R&J support had me ship it back for further troubleshooting.

Now some of you may not be as forgiving on this point, but I have worked on a help desk (many years ago) and I know that some customers will just lie when they tell support about the the troubleshooting steps they have already taken, so I was not surprised when they asked me to ship it back.

R&J ended up contacting the Clevo service center when they could not get G-Sync to work, and it turns out that only i5 and i7 processors are supported for G-Sync. R&J offered to replace the Xeon with an i7-4790 (which is a $50 upgrade on their web site) as compensation for my having to ship it back to them. I noticed they removed the Xeon option from the P770ZM-G customization page the same day.

I received the laptop back and everything including G-Sync is working fine so far on the original SSD that I first installed Windows and other software on. In the final analysis I am not sure whether to blame R&J for not knowing about the Xeon incompatibility, Clevo for not telling R&J, or Nvidia for artificially limiting the CPUs that are recognized by their driver for G-Sync support. I see no technical reason for G-Sync not working with a Xeon CPU, only that a Xeon is a much less typical configuration in a laptop (even a high-end gaming laptop).

 

Well. . . damn.

Good on R&J tech handling the issue, even happier to hear this now when I'm about to buy from them. . . rather I have been intending to build a p750ZM-G from barebones and have all the parts purchased (except for the barebones) .

I may have to send some very hostile letters to nvidia.

 

May I ask please? I'm also considering the Clevo P770ZM barebone from RJTech. I already have a perfectly good 980M and a 4900MQ pulled off my (sadly) deceased Alienware 17 . Do they ship with proper heatsinks and fans or thermal pads if you order without CPU and GPU? I already have a tube of IC Diamond so no biggie on thermal paste front. Thanks.

 

That 4900MQ isn't going to run in the P770zm. That machine uses a LGA 1150 desktop socket whereas the i7-4900MQ uses a mobile PGA 946 socket. Also, you would need to contact R&J tech to see if they would sell a barebones p770zm without the GPU (the option is not available on their website).

I do believe that they ship barebones with all the necessary heatsinks and thermal pads though.

 

Thanks . I mistook it for the P377SM-A, which has the same price tag lol. From my end I could still see 'No video card' option, but only for the model WITHOUT G-Sync, which instantly knocks $350 off the total price. Ironically the 980M I used in my AW 17 was actually bought from a Clevo reseller. Go figure!

This however begs another question (sorry I'm newbie to Clevo). With the standard P770ZM no G-Sync and no video card barebone listed on their website, can I use my current 980M and make G-Sync work somehow without interfering with the hardware, which requires factory intervention as the OP mentioned?

 

I figured the P377SM-A was probably what you would actually want to go for, and wow is that machine a beauty. A bit to tanky for my tastes though (up to 2.2" thickness ).

I missed that the P7xxzm non G-sync versions could be had without a video card. Now I'm thinking of grabbing one of those and buying a used mxm card from somewhere. I can either accept no g-sync with my xeon or upgrade my xeon to an i7.

Guhh. . . I'm really pissed with nvidia right now.

 

Had a look at G-sync requirements on Nvidia website. So the difference between the P770ZM with and without G-Sync is the lcd panel I suppose? The fact that RJ Tech didn't even include the 'No Video Card' option for the G-Sync model might suggest hardware requirements might be deeper than just simply popping a used 980M in, even though the panel is G-Sync capable.

 

The xeon for this kind of note is notebook is the best choice of cpu and it sucks to hear it didn't work out for ya pal. There was actually a discussion or two about this very topic in the batman threads. I actually wanted one at some point but various things were turning me off and I decided to wait for the next batch of skylake books. Now that you have gsync is it all that it was cracked up to be?

 

I've done some research on nvidia's mobile G-sync and it turns out that unlike their desktop G-sync there is not a chip needed with the display panel, supposedly the panel and video card communicate with one another directly. I've also read that mobile g-sync requires some sort of license? Knowing this I have no idea why G-sync isn't enable-able with Xeon processors.

It's all really odd. Hopefully the obscure workings are laid out more transparently in the future.

 

See NEWS from Computex 2015 So, basically, the difference in "G"/non-"G" is a bios update. It'd save you about $100, so consider a :beer: for Prema. Thinking of a barebone P370SM-A atm, for that very reason.

Panel has to be eDP though, no g-sync for LVDS panels (and/or Optimus systems, of course). Some Clevo (and AW) models features both ports on the motherboard. These are the three reseller options for the P370SM-A; one LVDS, two eDP. You can find out by looking at the 'Part Lists' section of the specific Clevo model's Service Manual:

Spoiler: Clevo P370SM-A - panel options

The Xeon bit is very odd; some have no iGPU whatsoever, not even eDP support (which is part of Haswell's iGPU). That means, since the P770ZM-G ought to have an eDP panel (otherwise no "-G"), it cannot use Haswell for this; there'd be no display whatsoever. Unless ... it was shipped with an LVDS panel, which would be rather misleading to the customer.

@Aegaeon:
Can you somehow check the panel nr. originally shipped with the P770ZM-G?

Now, this is Haswell's embedded display section on the P770ZM:

Spoiler: Clevo P770ZM - Haswell eDP pins

Look closely and you'll see that all eDP pins are neutered (X's), so these are disabled. Only DP_COMP and EDP_DISP_UTIL are going somewhere (FDI is VGA ...). Data goes via the TXs, yet these are non-functioning, indicating that image is routed through the MXM (as promised):

Spoiler: Clevo P770ZM - no iGPU and eDP

Spoiler: Clevo P770ZM - MXM

This is proper and as expected; bottom left+right is 2x external Display Port, left mid is HMDI, top left+right is LVDS (single) and right mid is our embedded DP. Ergo; no Haswell required.

Think the screw-up is with DISP_UTIL and/or DP_COMP; there's no signal/resistor on non-iGPU Haswell (the E3-1231 v3, for instance). Supply voltage and/or splice-in resistor to those pins and it ought to do fine:

Spoiler: Haswell eDP

Not sure if this can be fixed with bios only. Though E3-12*0 and E3-12*1 are to be avoided for the time being if g-sync is desired (Xeons with iGPU ought to work ...). Does beg the question whether even a regular non-gsync eDP panel is possible with those *0/*1 Xeons ...

 

Great information!; even if most of it is over my head. Am I correct in understanding that the Xeons without iGPU are an issue because the lack of an iGPU causes them not to be capable of emitting a signal along a few certain pathways? I'm now curious to know how an eDP panel would behave with a non iGPU xeon. Sadly (or rather happily for me) I won't be able to test this as I just swapped my Xeon 1241 for an i7-4790k. I might have to sell a kidney to pay for this build, but its alright so long as I get g-sync, UHD and a desktop CPU!

Also, how exactly does nvidia's mobile G-sync compare with free sync. Aren't they both using DP to sync the panel's refresh rate to the frames the video card is outputting?

 

Yes, both are based on (e)DP's Adaptive-Sync, which, apparently, has been part and parcel of eDP from the start in 2009. Good article here:
Nvidia announces G-Sync for laptops, reveals low-level tech details

So G-sync does have 'Variable overdrive', which FreeSync lacks, though there's no reason why it couldn't; it's a software-only feature.

Exactly, and the eDP panel question really could use an answer. Maybe the Owner's Lounge has some Xeon users... or perhaps a reseller could answer it, if they have a *0/*1 Xeon on the shelve.

 

Interesting information from your investigation t456!

From what I have read in other threads, I had assumed the i5/i7 requirement was just an arbitrary limitation imposed by Nvidia like the G-Sync license code in the BIOS.

If I had a socket 1150 Pentium laying around I might be tempted to try it out of curiosity, but I don't and I'm just happy to have a laptop with working G-Sync after waiting two weeks (including shipping time).

I do find the G-Sync feature worthwhile, especially in first person shooters (Battlefield 4 so far). If you are not as bothered by screen tearing as I am it may not be worth as much to you.

For the $50 extra cost over the non-G barebones P770ZM, and only losing the Xeon CPU and Quadro GPU options, I would say it's worth it.

 

Certainly, except that a Xeon and Quadro will run on your ZM-G too (the $50 goes to nvidia, for the sticker ...). It's only that those options don't permit g-sync, so a reseller won't offer them. Except HIDevolution, it seems ... maybe someone ought to tell them? Still, they're actually correct (and so was R&J Tech); Xeon ought to have worked and the Quadro could be supported as well, think the general problem is this kind of mindset:

• 'Xeon/Quadro' -> pro user -> no g-sync
• 'i7/GTX' -> gamer -> g-sync

Fine, only no g-sync, it appears:

The LP173WF4-SPD1 is an eDP panel. So eDP's alright on all Xeons, even those without iGPU. It's only g-sync that's missing.

Recall those threads/links?

Desktop i3 is available with g-sync, at least, so performance considerations can't be an issue. If there is a i5/i7 'prerequisite' then it exists only to annoy AMD and they forgot Intel's Xeon line; Nvidia ought to include these microcodes in their g-sync cookie then. If there's not such prerequisite then the blame's on Clevo, neglecting the difference between iGPU and non-iGPU Xeons. Last one's assuming iGPU Xeon does have g-sync, of course, if it doesn't then all that's left is malicious intent or careless neglect (both on nvidia's part).

 

What I read in other threads was the requirement for the the BIOS cookie and the whitelist of supported LCD panel models, like the Prema post you quoted above.

I was only thinking that "gaming class" i5/i7 requirements might have been a decision to only support the more profitable models.

Since Nvidia doesn't list i5/i7 in their own system requirements page, maybe it's just lack of testing with Xeon configurations on Clevo's part.

I would think adaptive vsync would be a useful feature for professional 3D modeling applications.

Maybe the they will release a Xeon/Quadro model with a $200 "G-Sync Pro" sticker later?