P870TM-R from HIDevolution

I'm creating this thread to tell everyone who might be interested in my experience at HIDevolution and how I decided to go with P870TM-R. I need to make these points clear first:

1. I'm fully aware that P870TM1-G barebone is EOL. This should lead to i9-9900K and RTX 2080 are not officially supported by Clevo. Prema needed to modify here and there to put them all together
My inner me said: EOL is not that bad, it means my purchase will bring me the feeling of being latest forever. I can easily find reviews and information about my laptop. Clevo support is not that important, I will use Prema BIOS after all

2. No SLI or NVLink for RTX 2080, so my P870TM-R will probably have an useless empty space at the second MXM slot
My inner me said: I'm the type that go all in or not go at all. This news is actually a big help. SLI on GTX 1080 was a huge let down but I still have to do it because of my personality. Now, I'm free. I will try to put the empty space in used (maybe for liquid cooling) in future somehow. I've never expected my laptop to be small at the very beginning, I want it big and waste

3. According to recent posts the heat sink might need in-house modifications by HIDevolution to fit the new RTX 2080
My inner me said: Well, in 2018, I had enough with Apple and its ecosystem, that's why I'm being with my MIX 3 and moving to Windows now. I hate it when I have to keep my laptop perfect like it was out of the box. I want it scratched and I want it modifiable

4. Keyboard feeling, LCD color, speaker volume and overall appearance are not beautiful
My inner me said: There won't be any laptop keyboard can beat my Topre keyboard even in my dream and I'm still typing just fine with my sh*tty skill, using 3 fingers left and 2 fingers right. If I want quality I will plug my external keyboard in or I will live just fine with any laptop keyboard. For LCD, I think 2K, 120 Hz are perfect, better color and brightness will help but not that dead or alive for me. Speaker volume, not important. Overall appearance, it's not beautiful, but it's made from plastic, I like plastic more than metal and paint for a long run

5. Chipset is Z370, not the latest Z390
My inner me said: Not the latest, it's hurt, but Z370 is acceptable, they are just a same thing. For security stuff like ME, I always think lower the firmware the better. Also, USB 3.1 and integrated WiFi are not necessary, mostly we will use 3rd party controllers.

To sum up above points, I'm pleased that, except chipset, I can replace almost any components (even keyboard and LCD panel). This laptop is what I dream for

Date and Steps
09/17/2018 Sent an email to Ted
09/21/2018 Ted introduced me Donald who helped me with my order
09/23/2018 Donald answered my basic questions about my order
09/28/2018 I asked Donald give me few weeks because of i9-9900K coming
10/XX/2018 Few questions and answers emails between us
11/11/2018 Donald gave me a call, I also sent verification photos
12/19/2018 Donald told me the BIOS broken due to new components. Prema and Clevo were working on it
12/29/2018 Told Donald about my concern RTX 2080 for mobile coming
01/06/2019 Donald told me the BIOS fixed but I asked waiting for RTX
01/29/2019 Told Donald about my concern between P870TM-R and AW Area-51m
02/07/2019 Confirm my decision to go with P870TM-R

It was a super long process. Donald always waits for me calmly, he keeps giving me opportunities to change my mind to make sure I totally happy with my purchase. I feel thankful. Here is my build:

AUO 2K, 120 Hz LCD with G-SYNC
Display Calibration - Yes
Minimize LCD Backlight Bleed - Yes
Display Warranty - 2 Year Package
NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2080 with Vapor Chamber Heat Sink Set
Prema Custom BIOS - Yes
Thermal Grizzly Conductonaut and Fujipoly Extreme Thermal Pads - Yes
Silicon Lottery i9-9900K Rated to 5.1 GHz
No Memory - I will fill all slots with https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA1K67NX5034
No M.2 - I will fill all slots with https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA12K77Z5902
No HDD - I will fill all slots with https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=22-179-110
Wireless - Killer
Drivers USB - Yes
2 x 330 W Adapters and Converter Box - Yes
780 W Adapter - Yes
EVOC Logo - Yes
Warranty - 3 Year Package
Total: 5,509

 

I had a hard time because Area-51m was such a beautiful thing:

Area-51m has many major strong points IMO:
1. Look more beautiful
2. Chipset Z390 which is latest, I like the latest
3. Better ecosystem, I mean imagine about Area-51m with AW Graphic Amplifier 2 x RTX 2080 Ti and AW 4K 120 Hz OLED coming soon monitor and a set of AW keyboard and mouse, all on your table, it's perfect!
4. Tobii eye tracker

Area-51m has many minor strong points too IMO:
1. Better keyboard
2. Better lighting
3. Better speakers (maybe)
4. Better FHD LCD (maybe)
5. Better webcam (maybe)
6. More flashy software interface
7. Easy download update softwares and firmwares directly from their website

As you can see, really, Area-51m is a winner here for sure and I almost pulled the trigger, however:

I also found few minor deadly points:
1. If I get involved into AW ecosystem, it will be like with Apple. I have a collector blood in me and I will feel bad If I miss an item or two. I'll have to accept any weak product they throw at me in future
2. They will put limit on the BIOS (likely)
3. Area-51m will run hot (likely)
4. I don't mind about big laptop but I think 2 power bricks are crazy
5. Expensive components, hard to replace keyboard and LCD panel (likely)

And few major deadly points:
1. The Area-51m information is not transparent enough. Looking at the current reviews, they are biased and trying to avoid main thermal, performance questions while keep telling people the machine is the strongest. Not transparent in business also mean not honest, and not honest means they care about sales more than customers and products
2. I don't want to be a mouse in their lab. If you follow recent posts, there're many cancelled orders or pushed back delivery date without proper reasons. Because I don't believe them, I also feel this fishy
3. The recent tweet by Frank makes me feel they don't stand behind their products and their partners (resellers), this sucks, I don't want to support such company (team)

Above points are merely my personal feeling, I'm trying my best to explain my thinking process that leads to my decision. After all, I was not an Alienware fan to begin with (even I owned few in the past) and I couldn't convince myself to buy the Area-51m this time.

However, Area-51m is probably the second best option in my list, I really hope it will be a great or even a legendary laptop. Such a beautiful thing after all.

 

Honestly get a Clevo with external keyboard/mouse combo if you want truly mechanical Keyboard experience. For typing the clevo is good enough! Skip AW.

 

Exactly. I have no issue with the keyboard. The AW is an unknown 1st gen product with most likely unavoidable firmware limits. P870TM is the 4th iteration and is stable and reliable, and only eol'd for lack of RTX multi GPU not for any inherent flaw. Z390 is basically a revised Z370 with a couple minor additions.

SL binned 9900k is a poor value upgrade IMO. They found all 9900Ks can do 4.9 which is only ~4% less... Assuming temperatures even allow it to reach that speed at full load

 

@bennyg, you're totally right. The CPU is probably the worst value per performance investment. Let consider it like I have a bit money to spare then. I think HIDevolution can make it run like 4.3 GHz all cores all of the time with acceptable voltage and temperature. With a possibility, I can push the clock up and down like a hobby if I have free time

Sent from my MIX 3 using Tapatalk

 

@Vasudev, yeah, for me I love my Topre keyboard and Logitech mice. For AW, according to my past experience, the vertical line of 6 additional keys they put on the very left is terrible, I keep missing my first initial letters and keep missing Esc key because l couldn't align my left hand correctly on AW keyboard. Maybe that's just me with my so so typing skill

Sent from my MIX 3 using Tapatalk

 

@Latostno any feedback with your P870TM-R lap ?
I consider one, but lack of clevo support and discontinuation of P870TM-R model bother me.
Thank you