Not the perfect ending with Xotic PC - read before buying

Update 10/08/12: Hi everyone! please read the latest to this little saga below. I removed this original message regarding the process of a DOA unit from XoticPC as I felt it is unnecessary for me to initiate the blame game. Nor do I want to have a slanging match with their reps. But I do want you guys to know how it was resolved so you will have an idea of what to expect should you obtain a DOA unit from them.

Best regards,

Andrew



Update 10/06/12:
Hi everyone, thank you all for your thoughts on the issue. Much appreciated.
I talked with Xotic PC's general manager Jason on the phone and the issue will be resolved.

Thanks again,

Andrew

 

Sorry to hear about the issue... I know it must be extremely annoying paying a bunch of money for a laptop, waiting excitedly for it to ship, then find out it doesn't work.

However, mistakes in manufacturing happen all the time. Even with the most rigorous quality control standards, faulty units slip through the cracks... a lot. It's a risk we're all taking buying products like this. I don't want to pass judgement on any party, but Xotic notified you of the possible defect, right? I don't think they would have shipped it to you if they thought it were a serious issue. Normally, I'm not even sure if the resellers can do quality control with Sager unless the laptop passes through them. Not positive on this, but the times I've ordered from them the laptop goes straight from Sager in California to my house on the East Coast. It never passed through their hands, so they couldn't perform quality control. That's up to Sager. Xotic acts as the broker in the purchase, offering customization, customer and tech support, and other services for the buyer. They are responsible for getting your laptop fixed if there is a problem, and it sounds like they're going to do that.

That's tough about the skin though. I'm not sure if there is some way they can help you out on covering those costs. I'm guessing they have to pay a third party to do the skinning, and keep the skins nonrefundable so they don't lose money for situations where the laptop is returned for technical issues or a refund.

Anyway, I really hope they can get the problem fixed and restore your confidence in the company. I've bought from them twice and have gotten to know a few people to work there, and my experiences have been awesome so far. I'm sure they'll make it right.

It would help if you could be congenial with the employees as well. They are working hard to do their jobs right, and they didn't give you a faulty laptop on purpose. They didn't even build it. Having to deal with the stress of irate customers just makes everyone's job harder, and doesn't benefit anyone in the situation.

 

to be clear, they did pick up an issue before they shipped it?

then having decided it was 'minor', shipped it anyway? or did you nag them to just ship it anyway?

Either way, let this be a lesson to buyers, better to be a few days late and perfect, than a rush job. i know i make more mistakes when I've got a client sweating on me. i hate it.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

 

First take note AndrwC that Xotic didn't touch your laptop until they skinned it so you can't blame them for not noticing until phase 3. Also Xotic can't check on the build with Sager which is why the rep always said things were fine, because Sager will only contact them if there is going to be a delay in shipping. This is something you need to remember when buying from these resellers, that's all that they are in some cases. Xotic builds many laptops but not Sagers, Sagers are built at Sager and shipped to Xotic. Sager does do their own quality testing, and as such it makes me think this problem was caused by shipping, not by the original build. It is not unheard of for this noise to be caused by wires getting pinched in crevices, causing this noise and not allowing the laptop to start. It's happened to me after taking apart a much less user-serviceable laptop. Nonetheless, this was a DoA laptop and should be treated as such.

The cost probably is for labor which in most cases is free for Xotic but probably not for skinning since that's a service which isn't covered by warranty. However, IMO if the laptop was not starting then (it very well may have been since it still had to ship out again, further damaging it if it was shipping damage), I believe Xotic should waive this fee and cut their losses as that's how it is supposed to work with a warranty.

But above all they need to make this policy much more conspicuous. That's just unacceptable since it sounds like you clearly had never heard of this policy and neither did I. This would be only on Sagers since Xotic builds the other brands and unless the pc is somehow unserviceable with the skin put on, they shouldn't have to remove the skin.

 

I am sorry to hear of this issue. This user was very familiar with this issue we noticed after a QA we do on all machine's after skinning. As you all know Sager Laptops are built at Sager and we noticed this issue after we completed the custom skin on the machine and completing a 2nd QA of the machine. Since we did not build the machine the first we noticed the issue is when we received it from Sager for skinning and did a 2nd check over the machine before shipping. Anytime a machine comes to us for one of our services we do a 2nd QA on ALL machines to make sure everything is working properly. We were nothing less then up front and honest with the customer about it and the customer requested the machine shipped regardless because of his timelines of needing the machine. We do not conceal or hide our return policy for skinned machines, as you can all see on our website it is very clear and not hidden in any fashion. There are man hours involved when skinning a machine plus the material costs, which is why we list a 15% restock on any return of a skinned machine.

It looks like it was left out that our Service Manager exchanged several emails each day and was helping this OP up until 10PM at night several nights in a row (outside of our business hours). Cedric was extremely prompt in his replies to you, 4 emails Wednesday to you, 8 emails to you Thursday and 4 yesterday. Hutsady took time to make a video to you showing the computing booting up and what we noticed in our QA. It is sad to see you have chosen this approach (with posting on several sites over this) for being 100% transparent with you and following your request. As you saw in the video the computer was booting fine (Post screen seen in video) and the ONLY issue was a speaker to which you requested it shipped to you right away versus us taking more time with the machine and addressing the issue. If the computer arrived not working it is likely something came loose in shipping as the video we sent you showed it booting, positing just fine. Since you are in California it would be a quick process to have Sager look over this if you are not comfortable with some basic troubleshooting. In my opinion I think a RAM module is slightly loose if it is not booting now and might have come loose during shipping.

Cedric only informed you what the return policy was as you had asked about it. He was not "waving it in your face", he was only advising you of it as we also list on our website. Additionally the terms are also listed in our checkout to which you had read and agreed to at the time of purchase.

Andrew our General Manager has sent you a email to review this with you.

EDIT had our Web Manager upload the video on YouTube we sent you prior to shipping. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDNekKdtCK4&feature=youtu.be

 

Ah, I found the policy Justin. I wouldn't call it misleading or hidden, but it does seem a little unintentionally buried in information, obviously you don't have to waive the fee and you may not be capable to, but I just think it should be made more obvious as the only page I found it under was warranty for Sagers and going to skins. Personally, unless you check with them about this restocking fee after the order is placed, I think it should be inside the options on the build page. or at least placed in the page you are directed to from the "more information" link on the laptop build pages.

As for those facts about your CS work, the part about policy explained, usual customer service work is not in question. You still went further beyond expectations to help this customer.

 

Justin,
Please understand that the issue was not being resolved and you already know about my schedules. I paid everything that was requested, the machine, rushed options, delivery. I agree that it seemed like a minor problem as shown in the video and I would have taken it had it not been a DOA at my door. Like others said, something could have happened during delivery. In the end, I even paid to have it shipped back. Now the matter has been resolved. I wasn't happy with the way it was being dealt with. I acknowledge I was not being polite enough and I apologize. Your general manager Jason is very reasonable and we worked it out at the end.
Regards,
A

 

Glad is has been resolved. I hope that when OP receives his laptop he will be happy with the purchase and the performance of Xoticpc. It's unfortunate that the laptop was doa, but mistakes can happen during manufacturing or shipping through no fault of the reseller.

Like I said before, I know the guys (and gals) at Xotic to be kind, professional, and great to work with. Happy to see you're being taken care of OP.

 

Hi everyone,
I just want to put the final resolution out there so people can have an idea of what went on and how it got resolved. I hope this will help you guys to avoid any potential pitfalls in your purchasing decisions. The DOA that I received is now being shipped back to the Sager RMA location via ground, with insurance.
The total expense coming out of my pocket includes the original shipping fee, the $40 rushed machine assembly, the $49 rushed skin customization fee, and the shipping back to RMA which was $40 (insurance + postage). What I didn't know was that XoticPC was meant to deduct the original skin customization fee of $189 (outer+inner surface skins) AS WELL AS a 15% stock-take fee to remove the skin. That would be appox. $189 + $200 (15%) from a system that's worth about 1.3k. So basically that means the user would have to pay both the skin application fee as well as the removal fee should you choose return the computer. So please take note of this as this could potentially cost you a fortune. In my situation of a DOA unit, however, I was able to work it out with their general manager to have the skin removal fee waived and the application fee reduced to $123. So the total amount of what I paid for this DOA system to be returned is $123 (skin app) + $40 (comp rush) + $49 (skin rush) + $67 (3 day UPS to my address) + 40 (ground UPS to Sager RMA C.A. facility with insurance). That's about 300 dollars in total cost.

So I am a scholar working for university in CA. I tend to travel a lot. This time though, the computer was purchased on behalf of my colleague overseas. But due to the DOA, the computer was returned and I am 300 dollars less.

Failwheel drive: Hi there! I am not getting the comp back. It's a pity though, the computer had a pretty modern and sleek design and the skin was beautifully done. The only thing was that the computer failed to boot up. Thanks for your comments and the others regarding this issue.

Cheers everyone!
Regards,
A

 

I wasn't aware that the 15% restocking fee was in addition to the cost of getting it skinned. You're right, that's certainly unfair. I'm glad that you were able to get that fee waived, and I really hope that if ever happens to someone again in the future that they don't get charged twice like that. It's really unfortunate that you are out 300 dollars and didn't end up getting the computer. If you ever find yourself in the market for a laptap like this in the future (seems unlikely after your experience) I really hope it works out for you. Take it easy bud

 

It is not a double charge. We completed the skin to which we have time (Labor) and material costs in. This is non refundable when it is returned. The restocking fee is normally charged (waived for this customer) to cover replacing the surfaces we skinned with new ones and to cover the labor costs in removing it and replacing the surfaces. This customer chose our full skin package which required the laptop to be completely disassembled and reassembled (now twice). This laptop could have been fixed and the customer would not have been out a dime, unfortunately since he chose refund there are non refundable services.

 

I apologize, I was under the impression that he was being charged twice just for sending the laptop back for an RMA. Thanks for clearing that up. I've said it several times in this thread already, but I know you guys do great work at excellent prices. So there would have been no extra charges for OP had he just sent the laptop in to get fixed, instead of requesting a refund. Makes sense. OP didn't say that he was returning the laptop in his original post, so it made it seem like those charges would be levied upon anyone with a problem with their custom skinned laptop. I'm happy to hear that isn't the case.

 

Yeah, why would you not have it repaired? That is why there are warranties. In the end it is just throwing money away. End note, for anyone thinking of buying one of these, the is always a chance that something can come loose during shipping (have you ever watched how packages get tossed about?). Use the warranty and have some common sense. And no, I have not bought yet from a reseller, but when I buy my next laptop, I have a few I will consider, including Xotic, which is at the top of my very short list.

 

i would love to know why this machine was "doa."

Sent from my PI39100 using Board Express

 

@AndrwC
I’m very sorry for the trouble and I’m grateful to you for the thread.

@Justin@XoticPC
I was terrified reading your explanation of the issue between XoticPC and the customer AndrwC in post #5! It seems that you don’t care about the first business rule – “The customer is always right”. I don’t want to be at the place of this customer. Until today I was considering XoticPC as a partner in the purchase of my next laptop Clevo NP9150/NP9130 with a skin service.


I will be glad to change my negative impression if I’ve got something wrong. Please can you explain:

1. Why you didn’t check the laptop before to be skinned?
2. Why after you find out the problem you didn’t return the laptop to Clevo without to bother the client?
3. Why you blame the AndrwC for starting of this thread?

 

Hi Duhai,
Thanks for the comments. I am still scratching my head over why this problem wasn't picked up after the delivery of the machine from Sager to Xotic PC and before skinning. As you can see, their rep stated in a previous message that, I quote "Since we did not build the machine the first we noticed the issue is when we received it from Sager for skinning and did a 2nd check over the machine before shipping".
I was only told of the problem with the computer on the day of shipping (10 business days after the commencement of skinning) - 2nd check. Or perhaps they did notice the problem at 1st check but decided to skin it anyways. How hard is it to notice that the machine was making a strange sound whenever you turn on/off the machine. Does that even need a QA to detect?
I can understand sometimes the machine needs to be tested extensively like if it's running too hot with a specific graphics card, for example, but this?? just turn on the machine and it makes a weird sound?
Actually the rep here (whom I never dealt with during this whole saga, I don't even know why he is commenting on this issue) stated that the machine had a sound problem. But this is not correct. According to the conversation log on the last day, the rep I actually talked to online, did say it seemed like a speaker problem first but 4 minutes later, after consulting with their lab tech again, said that the problem was persistent even after they swapped the speakers from this machine with the one from the other machine to test it out. It seemed to me at the time like the communication between tech and sales was dysfunctional.
So one thing led to the other and I decided to have it shipped home after I was assured that the problem was minor. It did seem minor from the video too. But somehow after it arrived, the computer never worked. At this point, I pretty much just wanted a return and that's when this drama began. I really had a big issue with the way their service manager handled this situation. he did submit a RMA for return pretty fast, which I appreciated. I was pretty worried about the skin fee, shipping fee etc so I asked and then was told that I had to pay for all of them. That's when 10 emails were going back and worth. He was basically saying 'sorry, Its non refundable. It's all on the website. It's Sager's policy for shipping and our policy for skinning. These are all stated clearly on our website. There's nothing I can do. You are not being reasonable'. Also gave him a number and he didn't call. Finally spoke with their general manager over the phone and sorted it out at the very end.
And now you have their rep on this website telling everyone that they have done everything they could for me despite the fact that the issue clearly wasn't being taken care of.

I think they are still a pretty reputable Sager reseller, so you can't go wrong with them, most of the time. But regarding the skin, I would tread lightly. If you somehow become unhappy with the skinned notebook, or encounter niggly issues that might change your mind to return the notebook for a refund, you could potentially be hit with 1x skin plus 15% restock fees which I personally believe are not reasonable fees to charge customers for a return.

Best regards,

Andrew

 

Hi Andrew,

Thank you very much for the details and your time! I can’t imagine how painful is for you to start the thread and describe the situation where someone wasting your time and money.

In your case I’m seeing a customer who pays for customized high-end equipment and have nothing except trouble. A seller who causes the trouble was unable to handle the situation properly according to customer satisfaction.

There is one thing I can’t understand. How is it possible to know for a problem and ask the customer to accept the faulty laptop after its order?

Andrew, I’m with you!
DN

 

Terrified? What is there to be terrified over? As previously explained the laptop comes to us from Sager and we do our custom work to it and then complete a 2nd QA of the machine. That is when this issue with the speaker was identified. We advised the customer this and he saw the video of it booting up with this issue and wanted to accept delivery of it regardless. We would have preferred to address the problem but the customer again wanted the laptop with the speaker issue we sent him a video on and as posted previously. I do not blame Andrew whatsoever, it was no fault of him for any part of it nor did I post in any fashion that it was his fault? Maybe your not reading my previous posts?

Again there would be been ZERO cost to the customer had the warranty had been used. That is why we include a warranty with each laptop sale.

 

@Justin@XoticPC
Thanks for the reply. I see perfectly your point, do you see mine?
There is no need to be angry at 3 simple questions even though you skipped two of them. I have no intention to argue with you. I’ve got my answers.

Thanks anyway

 

Not angry

BTW, all 3 of your questions were answered....