Kobalt Computers Officially out of business

We contacted Trading Standards, They were very helpfull and were going to contact (if possible) Kobalt. However they just gave up after they went bust.

 

Many thanks will bell them. Much appreciated.

R.

 

You got lucky!

 

This being an open thread and forum people are free to post their experiences, concerns etc., it saves clogging the forum with various threads all about the same connected topic.

You've posted a link on Page 1 to your list of links (although a simple copy/paste of those links into your opening thread on page 1 may be wiser)

If people really need to find information I am sure they are bright enough to refer to the first page and take it from there.

 

But they don't see the first page as the poster I was responding to proved that's point and I started thread this so that those of us who have lost money, RMAs, etc can share what we are doing, advice and so on. I used the expression 'more or less' regarding subject matter, in other words not limiting it but we have already had endless moaning about kobalt posts... at this point they just make the thread long and unwieldy, specially when they come from people who haven't actually lost their computers etc and it doesn't help the purpose that I wanted a thread for. Is that so bad? Its been a great shared effort so far it would be nice to keep it that way..... no?

 

Did I say it was bad? No, of course it isn't. However people want to post / vent and share their thoughts and opinions etc., and they should feel free to do so. If you want a link specific thread that people can refer to then I would advise naming the thread to something appropriate or better still create a new thread and hopefully a mod would be kind enough to sticky it.

Also, if people aren't wise enough to refer to Pg1 of this thread and follow the links listed there then you are going to spend a lot of time refering people to Pages 1 or 14.

 

Lucia we are owed a laptop, we paid £1600+ by bank transfer at the end of June, so cannot get our money back under S75 or any other means - we've contacted our bank. I have phoned Companies House today, at the moment Kobalt are still shown as active but it can take up to 14 days before a change is shown.
As lots of other people have contacted Consumer Direct without much success as far as we know, do you think we should now go down the Dom Littlewood/Watchdog route? Would other people be prepared to do this?

 

It seems worth a try, I copied Watchdog in to my e-mails to Consumer Direct and Trading Standards but that of course was before they went bust.

 

Anne...ouch I feel for you! I don't know is the answer to that... I think from my understanding is that there is little anyone can do until someone form of administration takes place. Do write to the company address that you have but send it registered post so you have proof. Also we need to keep an eye for when it does change in status as per the advice in the pdf link.

The problem is that all this is very common when companies go belly up. But I'm happy to join in if there is something we can do as a group.

Does Watchdog still run?

 

Anne, I don't want to be on telly, but I'd be very happy to tell watchdog/dom littlewood my story. I'm a masters degree student - Andrew was 100% aware I was a student when I ordered because we spoke about him knocking all of £30 off my order because I was a student!!! (that was an expensive discount) - I wanted the £1,300 laptop I ordered on August 31st for my upcoming course. I am now left without a laptop to deliver work on and my budget for the year has been blown to pieces! Ethics & backbone. Two words Andrew is a stranger to.

 

Good for you did you get a response?

 

Not a sausage, I probably should have put that in my original post shouldn't I!

 

yeah poor Chez sent back a repair the day before they went under... They must have known at that point so it was mean of them to accept it

 

Lucia... there is nothing that 'can be done'. But sharp business practices, like telling new customers that build & delivery will be about 3 weeks when you know you haven't delivered laptops ordered 4 months ago is frankly appauling practice. Totally unethical.

Those TV programs are often dealing with people who have gone bankrupt... the intention is merely to make the public aware of who they are, and embarrass them enough that something approaching a conscience might kick in!

 

The mods named this thread and closed threads with moaners in! And I ain't starting again as we have great solidarity in this thread

 

True! I wonder how we could get them (WD) to answer us? Not sure if Kobalt have any conscience though

 

WD is an awesome show, Rogue Traders all the way - On a more serious note, I'd be happy to try and get in touch with them, and possibly refer back to this board to show them that a decent amount of people are in the same boat.

WD deal with problems where customers have lost £500, I think with people here losing 1500+ would get WD to have a look at least, the money lost here isnt exactly a small amount

 

Anne... have you had any legal advice? Is there not an issue of illegality with your case? ie they took money and failed to send anything even before they went bust? I think they are liable to prosecution apart from anything else. Not sure that will help though because it all goes into suspended animation when a company ceases to trade and as it is a LTD company they are not personally liable.

 

Chez
i sent back a dead ssd on monday and it was luckily at redhill sorting office so i contacted them and received it back today. i now have to rma it to ocz which covers it for 3 years.
so if anyone sent things back in the last week it might be worth trying your post/courier who may still have it at their sorting offices.

 

Yes Lucia I've had some legal advice, I've done what was suggested - Consumer Direct, Companies House contacted but with little result. I'm glad so many other posters have contacted CD maybe something will get done eventually. When they won't give you any information about the number of other complainants you don't know if you're the only one!
Both our accountant and the solicitor told us that if a company carries on trading knowing it is insolvent then that is fraud.
My original post about VAT payment was because I wondered whether as we hadn't received a VAT invoice, yet had paid £217 VAT on our order whether HMRC ever got the money.
Sidhartha, I'm not keen to appear on TV, but if we have to go down the Watchdog route then if it helped people like you I'd be happy to. I think the way they treated everybody, but especially students who are on a very restricted budget, was despicable.
Maybe over the next day or so we can get a consensus as to what we do next; if we decide to contact Watchdog I'll go along with that.

 

I paid using hsbc debit card and when I contacted them, I was told only credit cards have the protection. After searching online I found following links -

BBC NEWS | Programmes | Working Lunch | Visa debit card refunds

Don't dismiss VISA chargeback | Moneywise

The credit card refund that's all grief and no fun | Money | The Observer

So am thinking of taking the printouts with me to the branch and see what they say.
Nilesh

 

Nkatakkar

If you go back to p14 there is a post where I summarised all the advice links and things so far. Read the PDF in the first link especially. There are also template letters for you to copy to send to your bank for Debit and Credit card claims. Don't give up anyway and accumulate all your evidence.
How long ago did you give Kobalt money?

 

I paid on the 22nd of August.

The links I posted, I thought, were more of complimentary to your links on p14 giving specific examples and bank names. Didn't mean to override your links

 

Anne

Yeah that is why I started this thread to get as many of us as possible into one point of contact. I think, although we have various issues with Kobalt our best strength is in sharing information and actions and advice.

I'd hate to be on telly 'cos I work in telly sometimes but I am happy to put my (much smaller than yours) claim together if folk wish to do that. Meanwhile, I'll try and keep summarising what we learn every so often so it doesn't get lost in this growing thread. Bit by bit more people are finding it though which is good. Definitely one of the key things to keep an eye out for is as I said before, the point where an outsider gets involved in the administration or liquidation of Kobalt. That means repeatedly checking on them via the routes in the PDF...

 

Ooh no you didn't I just thought a template letter and the pdf would help. Your bank should almost definitely do chargeback as payment was so recent. The Observer Money article is really good and a case in point when a bank like yours says no....

Nilesh.. a letter is good as it means you have it in writing and there is a 14 day limit for them to respond. I'd do both - I just sent a letter for Chargeback..

 

Another thought Nilesh...

The call centres for banks have no idea - or at least mine didn't (Co-op). So I got the address for the specific department at head office that deals with them and sent the letter to them. I thought I'd also go into my specific branch next week.

 

Thanks lucia
I have taken the printout of the charge back template and planning to visit the branch on my way back home.
Appreciate your hard work and for keeping this thread on track!
Cheers.

 

Finding myself in the unenviable position of having not only sent my laptop for repairs but also ordered a new one through Kobalt (£1500 on 10/10), in the interest of information sharing I thought I would let you know what I have learnt and done so far.

I placed the new order with a Capital One Credit card. I called them and informed them that I wanted to claim under section 75, they are sending a claim form.
I have also sent a letter to the registered address stating that I wanted to have my goods returned to me as they are not part of the company's assets and that I wished to be listed as an unsecured creditor. I enclosed proof of ownership (serial number, RMA, original order confirmation etc...).

A friend of mine also had a look at Kobalt's accounts and was rather shocked by the depth of long standing financial problems.

 

I find myself in the mildly annoying position to own a kobalt built computer without the last year of warranty, after waiting for over two months for it (almost 2 years ago). I am really sorry for the people who lost money in this.
I have followed this thread and read back on the other kobalt threads. I think everything that happened for the last few months really was dishonest and possibly illegal - accepting people's cash, forcing them to make bank transfers so they cannot get refunds, while they knew the ship was going under.
I also find the posts of shadowstalker very suspicious, as he is always trying to say no one can do anything or prove anything about kobalt, and no one should be made responsible.
If I were in the UK and had placed an order within the last few weeks with kobalt I would definitely follow this through all legal routes: bank, police, lawyers and so on. Maybe there are documents showing they no longer had notebook parts coming in and they were still happily accepting orders... who knows ?

 

I sent Kobalt a letter last week asking them to respond within 14 days etc. Looked at the recorded delivery info on post office website, and they refused to sign for it and it is back at the post office head quarters waiting for me to let them know what to do with it now!!

Anyway just before last week i phoned my bank and asked them to do a visa debit charge back. Luckily they put the money into my account on Tuesday i think. I am so happy i got my money back but they said it is not for definite until 45 days have passed. Needless to say i have withdrawn the funds to another account.

Paul

 

damn, glad I managed to get my money back a month or so ago. However, it kinda sucks that the only realistic option left now for uk clevo sellers is pcspecialist (even though I have nothing but good things to say about them) I hope anybody who spent money and don't have a product yet reclaim their funds okay.

 

@ShadowStalker... it doesn't matter if they refuse a recorded delivery letter (anyone is within their rights to refuse one!). The fact is, if you sent one, in a court of law that counts as you serving notice on the company whether they read the letter or not.

@P300zx... I'm in a similar position to you in that my bank said they would credit the funds back to me. But that doesn't mean much because they could just take them away again. If you've withdrawn funds that the bank subsequently recind, you will owe those funds to the bank... you won't have scre*wed Kolabt. Sadly knocking the bank for those funds will have serious implications.

 

Shunli
thank you for sharing your information and do keep us posted how you get on with the RMA. There is good information on the pdf link I posted on p13 and the first post of this thread about what the law says about these things.

Everyone, there is an entire post there full of links and template letters for chargebacks Section 75 claims and so on.

The registered address of the company is a few pages back. Send registered post there and it is important that you do that. It is an
accountants - not Kobalt - and that is where the administrators will collect mail and legal claims.

For those that need Clevo repairs in the future there is also a link to the UK service agent in London. Hope this helps and everyone please keep us posted!

 

All of you I urge to read the PDF to understand the importance of knowing when/if Kobalt goes into administration. It may not it may just be wound up but the legal status of claims against them changes so keep an eye on this thread, please share information, and keep checking via the routes in the PDF.
RMAs are your property but the onus is on you to prove that...

 

Sorry to quote mainly lucia but as you are seemingly running the show here and pushing on another forum I have stuck to your comments:

Wrong. It is the address of an accountancy firm and one with a very good reputation I might add. (EDIT - ok just seen the revision)

Mortgage or charge. This could mean a mortgage on company premises, a charge on stock or debenture or many other things.

Completely normal to change other directors details, nothing strange in that at all.

As I said before, Paypoint are a payment service provider, as are Paypal when they act to take payment from credit or debit cards. EVERY credit or debit card transaction goes through a payment service provider and a merchant service provider. They are not third party payments, they are third party companies who process the transaction.

Hundreds of companies go bust every day in the UK. The people and companies on watchdog and other similar programs and newspaper colums are builders who say a roof needs replacing when it doesn't or con people out of money. If anyone is going to suggest purposeful fraud or anything similar then I would be very very careful.

If you look at the situation completely dispassionately what happened was that the company had problems and was forced to cease trading. Whether you are a customer with a warranty, RMA or unfulfilled order, the simple fact is that the company only made the announcement 3 days ago.

Be patient, wait for more information from either the remnants of the company or liquidators/administrators etc. You won't get all the answers by yourselves this quickly and will most probably find that the answers you want will all be forthcoming in the very near future.

People will get any outstanding RMAs back, as detailed in this thread anyone who had a laptop or PC at Kobalt when they ceased trading still owns that item and it will be returned. It may not be returned imediately but again, it is only 3 days...

No they are not liable to prosecution unless you can proove that the company took an order and had no intention of fulfilling it. I GUARANTEE you and everyone else that this is not the case.

If you read what Pman said in his post it is clear that he was driven off this forum

"I am only posting here as a few of the guys I speak to are being badgered about trying to contact me."

Notebookreview has become increasingly imature and reckless over the last year, it's not surprising that he has been driven away and I would think that it is also extremely unlikely that anyone else fromt he company will want to post on nbr - especially considering you are all expecting them to supply information and at the same time suggesting calling the police and watchdog.


The steps are very clear:

If you need a refund then contact your card company i.e. call the number on the back of your card, NOT your bank. Tell them exactly what happened and that you need to initiate a chargeback or Section 75. If the person who you are speaking to says they can't do it or doesn't understand tell them that you want to speak to their superior. Remember, a lot of people who work at these call centres aren't well versed in all fields of legality and banking and you will get staff who don't know what you are talking about - I know it's happened to me before.

If you have an RMA with Kobalt then send a leter to the registered company address and state your case. Remember, they are an accountancy company and not Kobalt. If you call them they will tell you to write. If you are rude to them they can instruct solicitors to look at harrassment options. As I said above, it is only 3 days since the announcement, there are lots of things that could happen. The company could simply cease to exist, it could be bought out etc etc. There may be more information available once the initial legal issues with the company are resolved.

 

Nilish thanks and good luck and let us know how you get on.

 

Kobayashi who are you?

I'm curious as to who you are? We have said all this stuff already.... And your card advice is wrong. see this from the Financial Ombudsman regarding my questions about third party payment sites in the first post:

Several people have already consulted lawyers, some of the contributors to this thread have companies themselves and there are letter templates, details and all sorts if you really bothered to read.

We've also mentioned several times the registered address of the Company being an accountants. Claims on cards etc. As for Pman - not interested anymore I have defended this thread from Kobalt moaners so I am wondering what your motive is?

If you bothered to look at the links I posted you will see that all the information about status and possibilities are there. And no I am not "in charge" but I started the thread...

I think you work for or are Kobalt........ and we know what the legal advice is so either read the thread properly in which case you will see what its about, understand we are also pming or just maybe leave it out?

Thanks

 

And folks I agree with Shadowstalker he's not dodgy he is quite right in what he says about the limited liability of the company that is why it is a LIMITED company. With Ltd companies the directors will not lose their personal assets.

But Kobayashi can only offer GUARANTEES that there were no illegalities if he has inside information so for the first time since this thread started I am cross. Because so far throughout the last few days Kobalt hasn't once, on their webiste or here said the simple word SORRY

 

lucia, who are you? I said who I was in my post before the one above.

I'm trying to help settle peoples missconceptions, I don't want a fight.

May I suggest that instead of posting the link in the OP of this thread that you actually edit the first post to include any links you see fit. Most of the comments you made in your first post are wrong, I'm not saying you should have necessarily known better but now that you and others do it would be helpful to take those incorrect comments out and replace them with the Permalink. This way anyone who sees the thread only has to look at the first post and won't get confused - if they want to ask a question then the rest of the thread should be left for that.

I think it's good that someone is trying to gather all this information together in a sensible manner and people should thank you for doing it. One of the points I am trying to make is that it has only been a short space of time since the announcement was made. Personally, as no one knows what will happen to the "company", I don't think it is worth making statements about warranties and RMAs yet. From my business experience, RMAs will all be returned whatever happens so I don't think people should be concerned about that, it may just take a couple of days to get to that point.

 

Kobayashi...... how do you give guarantees about Kobalt's behaviour?

 

Koybayashi...

One thing you don't mention - I'm sure you didn't miss it - is that MANY people here paid by debit card. They have no recourse via section 75. Those people, myself included, are very upset for obvious reasons at the way Kobalt have behaved. Read my posts and you will understand...

IF I was getting my money back via section 75 I wouldn't be so bothered. Annoyed perhaps. But not so upset. As it stands I have been totally screwed by Kobalt along with a good number of others. 3 days, 25 days, 100 days... are not going to change those facts.

Let me just add... your 'guarantee' that they weren't taking orders they couldn't or wouldn't fulfil... well, one poster on here (or the other forum) ordered a laptop in April. Finally he cancelled asking for a refund in mid august. He never got a refund. I ordered late August and Kobalt told me 3 weeks. Are you really trying to tell me there was at the very least not serious decpetion involved in my order and their taking of it, at worst they knew they were miles behind on fulfilling customer orders and there was little hope of me getting one and simply used my money to keep their cash flow going for a little longer. In reality at that stage the company must have been in an increasingly procarious position - and they must have known it.

 

Someone who get screwed by Kobalt.......

And now I remember your post you mentioned "merchant service provider' which is kind of ironic because no-one said that in this thread. But on Kobalt's statement it says: the Directors would like to make it clear that were it not for the actions of two separate companies contracted to provide merchant services to Kobalt

And yes actually there are further difficulties for people who have paid via third party payment services if they wish to do chargeback. Chargeback is not CREDIT cards it is DEBIT cards different rules.

 

Good evening everyone, I wish I had followed my wifes advice and contacted the bank last weekend. I payed by debit card, so no-idea what is going to happen, I have contacted my bank and they are going to send out some forms etc. So will see what happens, I am currently down around 1600, and I ordered at the beginning of July with the hope of getting the machine sometime in august. The thing I need to ask is, do I wait for the bank to do their thing or also send a letter to the registered address.

 

Do both... and if you go back to the first post there are links to letter templates to make the Chargeback request for the bank. There are more problems with Chargebacks because they dont have the same cast iron cover as a credit card but go back to the links and get the pdf which is legal advice and there are template letters. Make sure you send the letters to Kobalt registered address and register the letter. ALso, with the bank don't give up if they don't play ball. People have had results even when a coompany has gone under. Read up snd cite precedents. Good luck and let us know how you get on..

 

I made a point of stating my position in a previous post so people know that I have a slightly different view that some of you. You can choose to believe me or you can choose not to. Zalgradis and MrDJ have also vouched for the credibility of the guys. People reading this can choose to believe what they want and obviously have views on the experience that they had and how they think Kobalt was run. If some people feel that the company was run poorly then that's one thing, that doesn't mean that it was run fraudulently.

I will happily admit that in my position I am biased but that doesn't make me wrong does it?

Anyway, this has nothing to do with what I was suggesting which is to get all the information on the first post sorted out so it is easier for people to see.

EDIT - I have pm'd you so that this thread doesn't get clogged up with unnecessary banter

 

Kobayashi, do feel free to comment on my post. I'd love to see some light shined on the points I raised.

 

Kobayashi....

The person who is investigating the illegaliity is not me but someone who paid by bank transfer and has no hope of getting her money back. The Sale of Goods Act is quite clear on these things and there are structural issues that overide "being nice guys" in a court. Not my issue....

Meanwhile, it is because so many of us believed in the guys at Kobalt that they could run on for as long as they did. Me included. I also have run a business and I understand the fine line between maintaining confidence and going under. But Kobalt could have mitigated so much of that by keeping communication going and being a little more honest. Instead for at least a year they have been mostly ignoring people, deleting emails from their forums, taking money for things they did not actually have, and so on. Meanwhile, even now as I said, they always blame others and fail to see their own contributions to the problems and have not even said sorry.

Obviously, not only their customers but either their suppliers, funders, or 'merchant providers', whoever, also lost confidence in them... That is business and at the end of the day I am fairly sure that they started out with good intentions and practices but they failed to keep them up. They will at least get to keep their houses etc., for some people here the computer was their livelihood or passport via their studies, to their future. And what we have seen of their accounts so far, which are publicly available they have been sailing extremely close to the wind for quite a long time.

They also made changes to their directorships etc at least a week or two before the announcement. So that implies they knew they were in the proverbial mierda and yet they carried on accepting RMAs for instance. Its crap I know I have seen what happens when a bank or whatever pulls the plug but the victims are the customers who didn't or couldn't pay by credit card. Or have computers that may breakdown and have no warranty.

They (the directors) themselves legally lose control over the RMAs once things move on so although they are legally still owned by the people who sent them in they now have to go through all kinds of crap to prove ownership and try and get them back and that is not guaranteed.

So sorry, I have no sympathy for them anymore. They made fab computers that is without a doubt but they have not done all they should have in terms of damage limitation to their customers... And really there are a lot of people on this thread who are very upset so it is not very wise at this point trying to make anyone see their point of view is it?

 

I said that they wouldn't have been taking orders that they knew that they couldn't fulfill before the company closed, that's all. I was replying to an accusation that the company was being run fraudulently. This is exactly why I keep suggesting that the information should be posted in the first post of this thread. If you miss-quote me then you will get confused.

One thing I will say is this - everyone is looking into conspiracy theories and thinking the worst because there has been no definitive clarification from the remnants of the company, as is completely normal when a company ceases trading.

I have said my piece, I tried to help with clarifying certain processes and positions. I have nothing else to add.

 

Well, that was one of the most half winded defences of any company I've ever seen. The towel came in midway through round 1.

 

Sidhartha....

LOL