Fair and Legal Business Practices

I recently wrote an unfavourable review of Clevo reseller Eurocom for the sake of sharing my personal and unbiased experience with them. But I had no idea that in doing so, a heated thread would develop as more testimonials about their shady business practices emerged. Unfortunately, the thread was closed because the discussion took a turn in the direction of what is considered fair (or legal) business practices. So, I am taking the initiative here to start that thread in case some people want to share their 2 cents on what consitutes legal (or not) business practices, or even "proper" vs "improper" business conduct.

Hopefully I will not need to say much in this thread because I've already said in my review all I had to say about Eurocom and their president's improper conduct or practices. But because this thread is about legal/illegal and proper/improper business practices, I will simply say that at the time of this writing, I am still being harassed on a daily basis with emails from the company president of Eurocom, who simply cannot accept that I disclosed his practices. (Ironically, he joined the thread at some point under a false name, by which he himself revealed his mentality that people who get price matches should receive "less" than what they are promised! And by doing so under a false name showed even more how dishonest he is!).

So, to start this thread I declare that it is improper business conduct for the company president of Eurocom to harass me via email on a daily basis after I injected $2000 into his company by purchasing a very high-end laptop. If anything he could at least offer compensation for the costs I incurred to return the machine because he knowingly put a cheaper GPU in my laptop... or he could offer a very specific apology on ALL words that were used to intimidate me, and ALL actions that were done to cut corners with the hope that I would not notice. Harrassing me by email is simply "improper" business conduct IMO.

 

I agree with you
He agreed to a price that is equal to that of xoticpc(I assume that is what he matched) which is considered to be MUCH higher quality than eurocom.
He then says
"This is what happen when we try to offer you pricing below our cost - you get below the cost quality. We have new technician in production that prepared your system so I guess he cut corners too."
He agreed to match the price of xotic, thus I would assume the quality as well. here he is saying he matched the price, but not the specs.
This is not legal, it is false labeling/salesmanship

 

As far as Eurocom representing "built-in" components of the Clevo systems as separate components for which they charge you extra, I wonder what the reseller agreements stipulate. I wonder if its legal to do what they are doing because none of the other resellers, to the best of my knowledge, are misrepresenting the built-in features to make more $ off the customers.

Does anyone know what the reseller agreement says? Perhaps someone should contact Clevo and inform them of what Eurocom is doing (if it is in fact illegal to do so?).

 

Indeed, the law was clearly broken by the president of Eurocom, when he lied to the customer about the GPU being more powerful than the one the customer ordered when in fact it was not. He simply put a cheaper less powerful GPU in there to recoup the profits lost on the price match and had the nerve to believe the customer would fall for it.

Then the president has the nerve to threaten the customer for writing a bad review (which is what happens when a company does bad and/or illegal things) and even has the nerve to continually harass him after trying to rip him off, and give him less than what they legally agreed upon.

There is absolutely NO EXCUSE for this despicable behavior and I believe the president needs to stop harassing the customer immediately and write a "formal and public" apology for his disgusting behavior, and bad business practices.

This thread needs to be stickied.

 

I don't think it's ILLEGAL, but it sure looks dishonest. They can sell the system however they want, with or without webcam, fingerprint reader etc. Now if they don't have any sort of alternative for these components and just let them in the system when someone buys it without them, well that is pretty wrong, but still maybe not illegal. It just looks, from first view, to be a way to fool the average guy that doesn't have alot of computer knowledge. I might be wrong tho.

 

A company president taking time for this? Weird...

 

Crylo have you ever taken law school level courses before?

I honestly believe you have no idea what you are talking about and you are pulling it out of your behind.

Try it in a real court if your so sure what they are doing "is clearly illegal" , "no denying it is illegal".

I'm not going to join this conversation until I see real legal understanding show-up....

...instead of vague comments like "harassment is illegal" or "threats are illegal" , which is so broad it could cover 500 cases.

Also I don't respond to rude individuals who ask me when I immigrated to Canada (I was born here) and who I can only assume are prejudiced against immigrants.

Basically your a waste of my time.

 

I think that in such a competitive market such as selling custom Clevo notebooks, the worst thing you can do is treat your customer like crap; legally or not. I read your other thread, and, honestly, after not getting the discount from the first guy, I would have already moved on to try another reseller, though it's very nice of you to make us aware of Eurocom's bad customer service. I wished they offered those ODD hard-drive caddies for cheaper, though.

 

Legal or not, it is a unfair business practice.
We need some sticky about eurocom that is locked.

 

Wow you like making assumptions, nothing concrete or remotely related to case law in Canada. You still haven't proven to anyone you have any idea what you are talking about other than shouting bloody murder in the streets. Who is really making the useless posts? (which you started by directly insulting not only my intelligence but my heritage as well)

I'd waste more time actually going through my books but I have an ethics midterm in a couple hours.

Oh wow ethics...could this be an...ethical issue related to fair business practice? yup. I'm not on Mark's side and I wouldn't buy from them after hearing this horror story, Im here to discuss legalities alone, you seem to be missing that fact and are taking it way too personally.

I know your relatively new here, but on NBR we don't insult people. Only you have done that so far. I just questioned how you think what happened is illegal and you haven't come up with anything.

 

The legality of the issue is he
1) Overcharged-
He could not sell the laptop without the camera, nor with a 3mp camera(Im not 100% sure about the 3mp) as it is a factory setting(it arrives that way from clevo). When he charged for that it was false.
2) He paid for the better GPU, yet was given the poorer one. When he asked why he was told it was the better GPU(Which it is not)
3) They price matched, then said when pricematching they reduce quality, and he stated that when they charge less, they give less.

 

metro what GPU was agreed upon and what were you given? I couldn't find that in the original post.

 

Yea I'd like to know that as well
And I meant to say an unfair not a unfair

 

I ordered the GTX 280M and got the 9800M GTX, which they advertise as $200 more but which is (according to the nvidia website), an older and lower performance GPU. There was a thread about this though I cant find it now... AND off topic, there was also a thread that showed pictures of the poor assembly: Long screws sticking out in the slot where the battery was supposed to rest (which prevented me from installing the battery!).

But about the card...here is more proof that I was given a cheaper one:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=428979

This guy is selling his 9800M GTX to upgrade to the GTX 280M. lol

 

what laptop metro?
I seem to forget

 

Clevo M570 (rebranded as Montebello @ Eurocom)

 

do you have a copy of the final contract? (with GTX280M on it?)

 

lol. Of course I do!

 

WOW ........ I am a computer reseller as well .... and I now have an urge to go shower with bleach.

Ok I can accept an incorrect video card being insalled, mistakes happen.... but damn that should be a case of " sorry we screwed up bring it in or send it over and we will rectify it immediatly!" but to assemble that shoddy, what course did their tech take, tinkertoys 101, or hasnt finished preschool yet?

price matching means just that MATCHING, .... PRICE AND PRODUCT.

as for harassing a customer ...... I would rather slit my throat.
as for downspecing a machine with an agreed purchase order ..... Illegal in Canada. if you are unable to comply the contract should have been nullified by the supplier and the customer should be given full disclosure ... such as " Sorry I can not beat that price " yeesh


Metro, I dont deal with Sager or any of their products but if there is anything myself or staff can do to assist feel free to send a PM.

 

About a year away from law school (in the U.S.) I will be watching this thread closely...While versed somewhat in basics of consumer protection law in the U.S. I'm very curious how it is in Canada. As far as link goes, he's right to some extent some are being far too vague, "Harassment is illegal", "Threats are illegal", any law professor or judge in the U.S. would laugh, no maybe have someone throw you out of the classroom, courtroom if that was your arguement. On the flipside link, saying something like, "I'm not going to join this conversation until I see real legal understanding" is pompous and maybe you should take your own advice and stop contributing to the thread completely if you have nothing to contribute as well. I would take 45 minutes out of my day to use my academic law resources to research federal and state consumer law precedent and code and ask the OP to scan his contract and evidence of of illegality to me to see what is actually here, maybe you should try that. Or, at least offer advice is a positive way by saying the legality of the issues you are questioning are far too broad and vague, you should research your province's protection laws and go over your contract with Eurocom in a very specific detailed basis...

 

>.> well I haven't read anything about you telling him to stop emailing you, so if thats the case I don't think it qualifies as harassment yet. >.> off course you could just always block him from emailing you. As for the way you were treated, it was certainly unprofessional.

 

Its best you contact Consumer affairs in your country. Do some research on your consumer rights the same time. Compile all the valid evidence you have.

What does you tax invoice state about the specs anyway?

 

I remember your original topic about the GPU and responded to that. Here's the link:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=417889

 

Here is what I said earlier:

But now I realize metro has a copy of the final contract stating he should have gotten a GTX280M, when he really got a 9800GTX+. So I don't know if that is considered a major breach of contract or not but he has the option to either discharge the contract or seek equitable remedies. Metro has a contract saying he paid for something and got something else. At least thats what I have interpreted from his other post.

 

It is in violation of the consumer protection act, I went through this exact issue with Eurocom myself, as well as other legal matters which in the end were all resolved at Eurocom's expense.

 

its a violation of the agreed upon contract, but yea sure whatever I guess you were arguing quality/quantity of goods which is fair although I don't think it would hold up in court.

 

the violation of the consumer goods act will hold up well here .... I have had to claim damages from a wholesaler once for misrepresenting their product. I beieve most european nations have similar legislation

 

The consumer will always be the weakest part, so the law (atleast in my country) protects the consumer.

 

In my country the laws protect the business only. The consumer can't do anything.

- If I order a laptop with 280M GTX and get a GeForce 440MX I can't complain.

- If they first tell me I have to pay $2000 for the laptop, then later a bill saying $10,000 lands in my mailbox I have to pay it or I might risk going to jail.

 

If this thread gets stickied, it would pretty much be a favor to everyone who has been or will be mislead/mistreated by Eurocom in any way. Also it would be a reminder to Bialic that treating people that way upsets them, and that they will do something about it. If they have a nice group of people like NBR that can create consequences for the actions of shoddy business practices, then maybe Bialic will get the point. The only way people learn is by consequence, and some people need serious repercussions to learn anything.
I vote Sticky, I have seen at least 4 people with complaints about Eurocom here, and there are more, I'm sure of it.

 

...Dude, what country is that?

 

Well folks, I have some bad news. It looks like Bialic will get away with his dishonest practices again...I received news from the BBB that my case is already closed simply because Eurocom "corrected" the e-hem, assembly errors, and the "oops, we put in the wrong GPU" issue. They completely overlooked the intentions that were clear from the emails I had received from Bialic, as well as his breaking the terms of the sale, as well as his threatening or harassing me. So, in a way, it seems like defeat....but on the other hand if this gets stickied then maybe his pool of "end-user" sales will dry up. Honestly, he can sell all he wants to corporations but I think he should stop selling to individuals because he is obviously not a people person, and as a result his team will adopt the same attitude. Like attracts like.

So as it stands, Eurocom still has 0 complaints on file with BBB, thereby obtaining a score of A. Bravo BBB, great job at ignoring genuine complaints with supporting proof. What a waste of time! (Im sure Bialic is laughing of relief as he reads this!)

We NEED this to be stickied!

 

Well that's disappointing, but Bialic won't get away with anything if you don't let him. Who you should really be dealing with is the Consumer Protection Agency of Ontario, they have a set of guidelines for companies to follow when selling goods, which were indeed broken in their business with you on more than one occasion.

Hang on to your emails from M. Bialic, and keep the copies of the emails you sent him, as well as the receipt from your purchase, these will be needed in order to take action against Eurocom/M. Bialic. I suggest you read here and here and then here.

And again I ask for the moderators to please sticky this thread.

Thank you.

 

If the mistake was corrected and you eventually got the piece that was mentioned originally in the contract, there is nothing else that can be done by the agency for costumer protection. The rest is civil actions you against the company/MB.

PL

 

The reseller has also offered metro a full refund, for return of the product, which he rejected. It's going to be difficult to pursue civil action with that fact on record.

 

I purchased a GTX280M VGA from Eurocom and I am very satisfied. Mark B. and the others were really fast and helpfull and the TNT delivery was in time also. They have tested and packed the VGA really good. So A++ from me for Eurocom and TNT.

 

Try ordering a price matched computer from them...

Just ordering a VGA makes it impossible for him to rip you off because you can easily look at the chip on the card itself and see what model it is without having to really disassemble anything. With a computer, most people take it for granted that they get what they ordered, and don't actually look at the physical parts inside to verify it, and M Bialic/Eurocom relies on this, and preys on this. M Bialic/Eurocom make extra profit this way by not giving people what they ordered, but giving them less than what they ordered at the same cost when they are buying a whole laptop, not just the card, and this is the gripe most customers have with them and in turn why this thread exists.

 

Eurocom's prices are laughable, and this isn't the first time they "accidentally" put in the wrong VGA.... I thought they would go out of business a few years ago.

When taking a look at any other resellers prices I can't see how anyone can rationally purchase from them unless they do a price match. But after seeing how they tried to rip you off initially, and their shady business practices. I wouldn't go with them.

I prefer R & J Tech, just buy the barebones and learn to install the components yourself.

 

Before I ordered my d900f I emailed a number of vendors in the US and Canada, and since in Canada there are only two Clevo resellers, Eurocom and buydirectpc, I seriously considered buying from Eurocom.
The prize for the system however, according to eurocom's website, was more than 5000 Canadian, and rjtech and xotic's prize for the same specs was somewhere like 3600 (converted to Canadian$). So asked them for a new quote, mentioning eurocoms somewhat high prizes and mentioning other resellers by name.
A guy called Mark mailed me back right away, giving me no quote but saying their prizes are justified, because they only use high quality parts and only have higly trained staffs etc. He also suggested not to buy from US resellers, making it sound like they wouldn't have the same high quality standards and because it'd be complicated in the event I have to send the machine back etc.
I was very taken aback by the tone of his email, which was kind of short or bossy and made me feel not listened too. Also I wondered what business he has saying things about other resellers, when IMHO he should offer me what I want so I'd become a costumer.
My gut feeling told me not to buy from them.
A month later however, Mark emailed me again asking if I was still looking to purchase. I was, but I said eurocom's prize was too high for me, since my upper limit was 4000 CAD. He immediately emailed me back saying that if I order right now I'd get the complete for 4000 inclusive shipping and everything. I was tempted.
I had read about them taking your old computer for a discount, so I inquired about giving my them my old laptop for an additional lowering of prize. Instead of giving an additional discount, Mark just said I could totally give them my old laptop to take off 20% of the website prize.

I listened to my gut feeling. I didn't order from Eurocom.

Here's some quotes from the emails: Note the part about "cutting corners".

"we will offer you super special trade in allowance for your notebook of 20% - normally would be 10% max

you can deduct 20% off our web pricing when placing your order. I will email you instructions how to ship your old notebook to us once you confirm your order."

"If you place your order today we will offer you special special pricing so your configuration with taxes and shipping will be under $4,000 CAD."

"shipping from US to Canada require you to pay customs fees each time product goes across the border - and it takes time, shipping to California is at least 7 days from your location, so if you have problem and you need to ship back to your low cost vendor is USA - good luck - your notebook would be out of your hands for 3 weeks (2 weeks transit + 1 week repair time).

All of our HDDs are with free fall sensors - they are more expensive; all of our RAM is grade 1 (not 3) much more expensive; we have standard 48 hours stress test of all components and special 72 hours on super high end configurations.

we pay people well here, we hire engineers, we create jobs in Canada and this costs too - we don't hire kids to sell our products

so, yes we are more expensive BUT we do not cut corners and we offer top quality product, service and support."

Well, as I said, I got a bad feeling from all of it,
so I ordered my rig somewhere else.

 

Yep good job Brato, you did yourself one hell of a favor buying from someone else, good job!

 

What I want to know is why a Canadian company selling Asian laptops is called EUROcom? Do they have a main office in Europe?

 

Nah, owners european I think

 

No idea .. wants to annoy 3 continents?

 

I remember commenting on this a while ago, before it happened: http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=403895

can't say I'm happy it did, but at least we have a sticky now so others don't make the same mistake (considering I almost bought from them myself).

 

Hey,

I will never ever buy anything from Eurocom again, they are way way too sketchy of a company! I truly and uterly believe that their techs must be kids with screwdrivers. Check out how my laptop arrived -- http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=295807

When i found out that the reason why my laptop had not worked since day 1 was because of an installed hard drive that had been dropped this immediately in my mind cancels out any BS they are feeding you about testing laptops before shipping. Then to top it off, when i told their tech that i was dealing with, he was accusing me of dropping it. EVEN THOUGH IT DID NOT WORK FROM DAY 1(When i originally called in the issue). Finally i had to get the sales rep to sort out the problem. Not to mention, shortly after replacing the hard drive i noticed the screen had a huge cluster of dead pixels, had to send it back to get replaced which they did, good on them. However when i got it back, the bottom panel of the laptop was not even assembled correctly, one of the tabls was popping out/twisted so that it was not under the plastic lip.... how do you miss that seriously...

By the way my laptop was a price-match ROFLCOPTER what a company they are, i am so happy that i did not get extended warranty, if something ever does go wrong i will never send it back to them, ill fix it myself.

Finally just cuz i can: i would like to mention that i am a graduate programmer with computer industry friends that have wanted a gaming notebook like mine, i have detered every single one of them away from Eurocom and have recommended to go with different alternatives, nor will i ever recommend anyone to Eurocom.

Count yourself lucky that you did not have to deal with this company!

Cheers,
-Mike

 

Ok, I know how this looks, since a first time post on a board with a positive response to a generally negative review is typically a shill.

I purchased my D900C from Eurocom a little over a year ago after looking at Sager and Falcon NorthWest.

I had planned from the very beginning to have nothing but the best in there (fastest processor, SLI video, etc.)

I had no problems in mentioning that their prices were very high, and they price matched and beat all prices by 10%. I did tell them that I travel to the States for business all the time and in fact have an executive apartment. So ordering from the US or Canada was simply a matter of keeping business "at home" for me.

I paid for the purchase and received my order in around 2-3 days. I did remove items I was not interested in (TV Tuner, USB Video Camera, Biometrics).

My laptop arrived, OS installed, everything working just the way it should be, and with a bit of a shock... it was loaded. I ordered a standard DVD Writer and they sent BluRay. I informed them of this, and they said that it was ok.

In the time since, I have asked about upgrades, etc and upgraded the memory to 8GB. They have been professional and courteous to me, and I have no problems ordering from them again.

In fact I had no problems with price shopping them. I find that many of these transactions depend on how you work with them. I am in the process of purchasing another high end portable system and Eurocom will very likely get this business.

Sorry to hear about the others out there that have not been so fortuitous, but I thought I should share my experience.

 

No it doesn't depend how you work with them, it depends if you give them tons of $$. I'm sorry, but most of the good experiences with eurocom I have seen on this forum are with people buying 3k+$ laptops. But thanks for sharing. Always good to hear some people not having issues

Btw, did you still receive the fingerprint reader and webcam even though you didn't get them?

 

FYI - I also opted out of the bluetooth, fingerprint scanner and webcam as i do not need them. However what do u know, the laptop came with all 3 and i got the discounted price as if i did not order thoes 3 parts. LOL.... thats how bad they are rooking you. If you decide to not order them, they know that they are suspose to come with the laptop and they just leave them in HAHAHAH.

 

Well, I'm very surprised about this thread and all those negative reviews towards Eurocom.


I bought my latptop 2 years ago. It is an EUROCOM M570RU DIVINE-X; 17-inch.

I didn't try to match others prices because I thought it was fair considering I almost ordered a 17 inch DELL that was way lower spec than the M570RU but was the same price (2550$) approx.

I however asked for the student discount of 5% and the saleperson, who always been very courteous, just asked me to send him a copy of my student card.

My laptop had everything I asked for and what I didnt asked for such as the webcam and finger thing.

I never got any trouble with the laptop, it always worked fine. I'm very satisfied and was thinking about ordering a new one in a year or two from Eurocom again.

HOWEVER, I have no idea what happened with them since I bought my notebook. Maybe they became corrupted and dishonest? I remember in that time, Eurocom was getting good reviews. /shrug

But now with all those bad reviews, I might reconsider it.

Also, now that I look at the xopic price, I have to admit that it is a few hundreads dollars cheaper than Eurocom. It wasn't that way when I was looking to buy 2 years ago with the US-can$ change. (the only bad thing is that xopic doesnt own the orange trim laptop *sob*)

I guess it is a good exemple of a good company becoming bad with times....?

 

Just 'cause I love to stick my nose into other peoples' finished business: what courts wouldn't uphold a claim for breach of contract?