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    Bad experience with Xotic PC

    Discussion in 'Reseller Feedback Forum' started by hugheaves, Sep 9, 2015.

  1. hugheaves

    hugheaves Notebook Enthusiast

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    I just thought I'd post my Xotic PC experience here, in it helps someone make an informed decision when using this vendor. I wish I'd taken the other bad reviews seriously before I ordered, so maybe this will help someone.

    I placed an order for a Sager 8651 on 8/11/15, and at that time, Xotic PC was showing an 8/10/15 (i.e. the day before) availability date for this model. Xotic PC charged my credit card immediately for the laptop. After my laptop was still in "Phase 1" a week later (8/18), I contacted Xotic PC customer service via chat to see what was going on. (Note, I had to prompt them about a possible backorder before they acknowledged the product was actually backordered - so much for them keeping you up to date on order status)

    Chat Content:
    Trisha R.:
    Hello, How are you today Hugh? Thank you so much for visiting us today! I'm really looking forward to helping you with your Xotic PC! I appreciate your patience in replies to chat's, as long as this window is open I am diligently working to help you, for more immediate questions or concerns please feel free to call me at (402)302-0468. Likewise, you can always email me at [email protected].
    Hugh: Hi. My order (# XXXXXX ) has been in Phase 1 for a week. Shouldnt it at least be in Phase 2 by now? Thanks.
    Trisha R.: Good morning I hope you are doing well
    It looks like you have ordered a sager laptop
    With Sagers they don't move through our regular phases, It will stay in Phase 1 until it is ready to be shipped when it goes into Phase 2 it's about to ship
    Hugh: Ok. Thanks. I was just confused because I saw several other orders (for Sager) where they entered Phase 2 within 24-48 hours.
    And I saw that this laptop is currently backordered until 8/28 on Sager's website.
    Trisha R.: Let me check I know we received knew ETA's as this laptop did have one of 08/10/15
    You are correct the laptop is backordered until the 28th did you want to wait or maybe look at other options?
    Hugh: Yes, if my laptop is backordered when I would like to cancel my order.
    (sorry, when -> then)
    Trisha R.: I'm sorry to hear that, to do so you would need to fill out http://www.xoticpc.com/cancel_order_request_form.php
    Hugh: ok, I will do that. thanks.
    Trisha R.: No worries have a great day!

    As the ETA had now slipped 18 days from the original estimate, I needed to source a laptop somewhere else (before school started). I filled out the cancellation form on at http://www.xoticpc.com/cancel_order_request_form.php as suggested by the rep. I received no acknowledgement that the cancellation was received, and despite the "24-48 hours" cancellation timeframe claimed by Xotic PC I still hadn't received a refund a week later. (On the phone, Xotic PC claimed their cancellation department was busy - interesting, as it took them only a few hours to charge my card in the first place)

    My credit card company suggested I initiate a chargeback. To cut a long story short, Xotic PC finally granted a refund on 8/24/15, but minus a 3% order cancellation charge. Note there was no mention by customer service or on the cancellation form of this charge.

    So, basically, Xotic PC appears to be a company happy to take your money even for a backordered product, and won't give you a full refund for a product never shipped, even when the shipping estimate slips almost three weeks. My feelinh is that Xotic PC offers no benefit, unless you think that charging your credit card immeditely for a backorderd product, failing to notify you of an 18 day delay in fullfilment, and then refusing to refund the full amount when the order is cancelled is good customer service.

    As it turns out, I could have ordered my "no operating system" config straight from Sager for the same price (the "no os" option isn't listed on Sagers website, but is available by phone) and Sager says they don't charge your credit card until the order actually ships.

    My recommendation is to skip Xotic PC for Sager orders, and go directly to Sager instead.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2015
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  2. JMattes

    JMattes Notebook Consultant

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    Wow that really sucks!! I was actually going over the order process with Jason today and had it could be that bad is Sager just didn't build the laptop and how out of Xotic Pcs hands it is..

    Kinda shocked they didnt give you a full refund. But I guess that has to do with the 3% you save with a money order??

    I'll have to start reading other reviews before I order
     
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  3. Support.3@XOTIC PC

    Support.3@XOTIC PC Company Representative

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    I am sorry to hear about this experience. If you email me your order number I can take a look into it and see what I can get done about the 3% fee.

    This model has been on short supply recently, that is the reason the date changes.
    Sager will get some in stock then fill the orders that have been placed, that would be when we charge your card then the computer goes into production at Sager. If all stock gets allocated to orders then the date gets moved to when Sager tells us they are expecting their next shipment. That would be why it showed Aug 10, they got a shipment in, then filled orders with those, then moved the date to Aug 28th when their next shipment was expected. As you'll see now its Sept 11 for the next shipment.

    Phase 1 usually last 7-12 business days as that is the standard build time for Sager computers. Once you hit Phase 2 it usually ships that day or the next. Since Sager builds these directly at their facility they do not provide us status updates except once its ready to ship out. You mentioned you placed the order on Aug 11th then requested to cancel Aug 18th which had only been 5 business days.

    There is a 3% cancel fee if the computer is in the production phase. So with the information above I would think yours did get filled with the 8-10 shipment. However I can't say for sure without the order number. If you would email me your order number I will be happy to look into what happened.
     
  4. hugheaves

    hugheaves Notebook Enthusiast

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    Actually, I paid with a credit card. I was charged $1289.00 on 8/11, and received a refund of only $1250.33 on 8/26.

    Here are some of the other reviews I wish I'd payed attention to:
    https://www.reddit.com/r/XoticPC/comments/3a67bl/xotic_makes_it_painful_to_buy_a_machine/
    https://www.reddit.com/r/SuggestALa..._dealing_with_xoticpc_my_nightmare_with_them/
    https://www.reddit.com/r/SuggestALa...xoticpc_changing_prices_after_the_order_went/

    There are many more out there. I would strongly suggest never doing business with this company, but YMMV.
     
  5. hugheaves

    hugheaves Notebook Enthusiast

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    If the order got filled with the 8/10 shipment, when why did your customer service rep (see chat transcript in original message) tell me it was backordered until 8/28? I'll email you my order #, but I've already talked to your customer service and they told me there was nothing they could do.
     
  6. Support.3@XOTIC PC

    Support.3@XOTIC PC Company Representative

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    Yes we do have some bad feedback out there. Every company eventually does. While we would love it if we had 100% satisfaction over the 15+yrs of selling computers, thats just the not the reality of being a business. When something does go wrong, which we know it will, we will do our best to take care of it. I'm sure you also read many reviews on how we have helped out and people have had a great experience with us.

    By reading the chat it sounds like she checked our website to verify what you had said about the new ETA of 8-28

    " Hugh: Ok. Thanks. I was just confused because I saw several other orders (for Sager) where they entered Phase 2 within 24-48 hours.
    And I saw that this laptop is currently backordered until 8/28 on Sager's website.
    Trisha R.: Let me check I know we received knew ETA's as this laptop did have one of 08/10/15
    You are correct the laptop is backordered until the 28th did you want to wait or maybe look at other options?"
    Hugh: Yes, if my laptop is backordered when I would like to cancel my order.
    (sorry, when -> then)

    It does not sound like she checked your order specifically to see if one was allocated to your order, she only verified that it's new ETA was on 8-28. Again that would have been for the next shipment after the one from Aug 10. What would have been best is that she offer to check with Sager to see if one was allocated to your order, then get back to you.

    I will take a look for your email and reply directly to it with the information I can find. You're welcome to continue to post on this tread as well of course.
     
  7. hugheaves

    hugheaves Notebook Enthusiast

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    I actually haven't seen any reviews of your company where something went wrong (as it sometimes does), but your company did the "right thing" and fixed it. For the most part, it appears that customers who have problems have been "hung out to dry" by your company. The measure of a business is not how things are handled when everything is "just right", but how things are handled when they go wrong.

    Well, that's very strange as I gave her my order number right at the start (so she knew I was talking about my order), and she then told me it was backordered and asked me if I "wanted to wait or look at other options". And certainly when I said "Yes, if my laptop is backordered I would like to cancel my order.", she not correct / object to my assertion.
     
  8. Support.3@XOTIC PC

    Support.3@XOTIC PC Company Representative

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    There are several of them here on this feedback forum where we have gone to bat with Sager for the customer where we pushed to get RMA/Service work done that would normally not happen when you go through Sager directly. Thats the benefit of buying from a reseller as we have much more pull with Sager
    There are several pages here and you will see many where we do really try to help out
    http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/negative-experience-with-xoticpc.737337/

    She wouldn't have been able to check for allocation with your order number alone. We do not have access to Sagers system like that. We have to contact Sager then wait for them to get back to us which usually takes a few hours as Status inquiries is by email only. She did tell you it was back ordered as that is what the new ETA said. I did check my email history and saw Sager let us know on Aug 7th that they got the Aug 10th ETA in stock. Then on the 12th they provided a new ETA of Aug 25. That explains why you saw that new date after you placed your order.
     
  9. JMattes

    JMattes Notebook Consultant

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    As a potential customer this is what I am learning from these experiences (customer reviews);

    1) With stock on current gen getting harder to come by with Skylake coming soon it is in your best interest to ask the rep to do a stock check with sager before placing the order.
    2) Hope nothing goes wrong and your laptop comes in 100% working condition, but in the back of your mind plan to wait an entire month before you will have your laptop. 2 Weeks from date ordered and 2 weeks if something happens to be wrong with it.

    Sadly, for me patience is not something I have and when I finally decide to place the order I will be counting the days before it arrives. :-(

    I have read both the horror stories and the positive feedback from previous customers dating back until July (fell asleep before reading more). It does seem that all the transactions do get resolved. Some got hit with refund fees due to fear of the 30 day return policy closing, but if its a technical problem or defect wouldn't that fall under the year long policy that they would eventually have to fix or replace if they cant fix it? I can understand not having time within 30 days to see if you actually like the laptop, but most people are educated buyers and know what they are getting. Hell I've spent days looking over the Sager line and researching it and probably a few hours chatting with Jason.. When I push the button I know what I am getting.
     
  10. hugheaves

    hugheaves Notebook Enthusiast

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    Ok, so your customer service rep did tell me my laptop was backordered. If she failed to actually check the status, how was I supposed to know that? And why am I being penalized for Xotic PC's lack diligence in communication? The appropriate response, if there was no way to actually check the status, would have been to let me know that there was no status update available on my order, and (hopefully) offer to get back to me after checking with Sager.

    I fail to understand why (as you indicated in private email) that you are checking with Sager to see if my laptop was actually in production. Regardless of what happened between Xotic PC and Sager, your rep told me that the product wasn't available so I cancelled my order. Apparently, I'm now supposed to eat a 3% fee because of it.
     
  11. Support.3@XOTIC PC

    Support.3@XOTIC PC Company Representative

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    The 3% fee would be in effect if the computer was in production, that is why I have sent an inquiry to Sager to see if it were. When an order has been placed and the computer is on back order and we do not have the order in production there is no fee for canceling an order. That is why its important to know if it were or not.

    Our rep did verify that there was a new ETA of Aug 25th from the previous 10th. However it does not appear that she checked to see if your order specifically got pushed back or if Sager was able to get one.

    This part of the chat:

    Hugh: Yes, if my laptop is backordered when I would like to cancel my order.
    (sorry, when -> then)
    Trisha R.: I'm sorry to hear that, to do so you would need to fill out http://www.xoticpc.com/cancel_order_request_form.php
    Hugh: ok, I will do that. thanks.

    Looks to me that she did not check on your order but just went off the new ETA, but should have let you know at that time that she would check and once we heard back from Sager then cancel or proceed accordingly.
     
  12. Support.3@XOTIC PC

    Support.3@XOTIC PC Company Representative

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    Glad to hear Jason has been getting you taken care of.

    For your question: "Some got hit with refund fees due to fear of the 30 day return policy closing, but if its a technical problem or defect wouldn't that fall under the year long policy that they would eventually have to fix or replace if they cant fix it?"

    Yes after the 30 day return period you are still covered under the 1yr parts warranty if something does happen to fail.
     
  13. hugheaves

    hugheaves Notebook Enthusiast

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    This is ridiculous. Even if the laptop was in production, your rep told me that is wasn't. So, you're checking because you're only going to refund me 3% if the rep was actually correct? But if your rep gave me the wrong information, I have to eat the 3% cancellation charge?
     
  14. hugheaves

    hugheaves Notebook Enthusiast

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    I just hope that they do a better job checking stock status with your order, than they did with mine.
     
  15. JMattes

    JMattes Notebook Consultant

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    Based on your experience I would make sure they tell me directly they checked with Sager on the parts I am looking to have.. Honestly, if it wasn't for reading everyone's reviews (especially yours) I would be in the dark and if anything did happen I would be complaining just like you..

    I was thinking about wiring money when I do purchase to save the 3%, but from what I read it is better to pay by CC in case something does happen so the CC company can battle for you if your unhappy.

    I've also read that wiring money cost up to $30 or even $45?? I don't know if that is true as I wired money to my landlord who has Wellsfargo and it cost me $3 for next day wire so I am not sure if I am missing something. I also saw that those buying in Cali needed to ship it to Xotic PC first to avoid Cali sales tax and they got hit with another shipping fee? I see that they advertise free shipping promo.. Would I get hit with any tax or fees for New York? I mean these are all questions I now have to ask that I wouldn't of really thought twice about to confirm if I didn't read all the horror stores.

    Xotic PC is not like dealing with Amazon or another big company and since they sell directly through Sager it becomes even harder.. and unless you dug deep and did your homework you wouldn't know that..

    I've read the posts between you and Xotic PC and it seems like a huge misunderstanding. I would of understood it the same way you did. There was no way of knowing she couldn't give an update without checking with Sager unless you had a similar situation in the past. If she offered to change your order I would assume it wasn't produced yet so why get hit with the 3%. I would make the same claim as you. I hope you and Xotic can work it out.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2015
  16. Support.3@XOTIC PC

    Support.3@XOTIC PC Company Representative

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    I replied directly to your email as there was some information that may not belong on the public forum. You're free to post that if you'd like.
     
  17. Support.3@XOTIC PC

    Support.3@XOTIC PC Company Representative

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    Wiring money can cost, you'll want to check with your bank to see what any fees are. We do not charge for them though. Depending on the fee's your savings may not be worth it.

    We do not charge a second shipping fee when we ship from Cali to us. We eat the cost of that, the only difference is the added ship time, shipping is still totally free with Ground service. There are no other fees and we do not collect for sales tax when shipping to NY.

    Feel free to ask us any questions you have ahead of time, we're happy to answer them. You can do so here, or our live chat works really well too, or go old school and give us a call :)
     
  18. hugheaves

    hugheaves Notebook Enthusiast

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    So I heard back from Hutsady. Apparently, despite the Xotic PC customer service rep telling me that my laptop was backordered, it was in fact in production. So, I will not be receiving a refund on the 3% cancellation charge. I guess it's a lesson learned for me about being more careful when ordering online, and another +1 in the "customers screwed by Xotic PC" count. So much for fixing problems..
     
  19. hugheaves

    hugheaves Notebook Enthusiast

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    It sounds like you've done your homework. I wish I had been more careful. I guess when I saw the positive reviews, i convinced myself that the negative reviews were the exception, and wouldn't happen to me. :)

    In the end, I bought an inexpensive laptop locally to hold me over until I place a new order for a Sager. As the Clevo Skylake laptops appear to be already available through some resellers, I'm assuming Sager will have them soon too. At this point, it doesn't seem to make much sense for me to buy a Haswell system as I have an interim solution.

    As the Sager direct prices (without cash discount, of course) are the same as Xotic PC, I plan to order directly through Sager. A sager sales rep provided me with his direct phone number / email so I presume (unlike Xotic PC) that I can order and if, needed, call to obtain an order status update. I guess in that regard, I have more pull than Xotic PC, which only appears to be able to check stock status by email. :)
     
  20. JMattes

    JMattes Notebook Consultant

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    Glad to hear that you have some plans on motion! Can you pm me links to who already sells the Skylake models? Does anyone offer the 6820hk? I know some sellers had the 6700k in laptops.. Ill double check with Xotic and Sager as I thought they still had a bit more savings..
     
  21. Support.3@XOTIC PC

    Support.3@XOTIC PC Company Representative

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    Unfortunately as hughheaves has mentioned we were not able to get his 3% fee waived.

    I think the main issue here was seeing the computer was back ordered, but his particular order had one allocated for it as it was placed before they went back on back order. The posted back order date was for orders placed after Aug 12th.

    I do apologize about the confusion with all those dates and can understand how things got mixed up.
     
  22. JMattes

    JMattes Notebook Consultant

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    I understand the reason behind it.. however here is a conversation I had with Jason that confuses me on your verdict

    Jason B Yeah Sager sets all the pricing for them
    James Mattes Do you guys offer like a 30 day price guarantee?
    Jason B We can always have you re-submit the order if you see the price change during the order process and we can honor the new price, but it would start your build process over again. It's doable and I've done it before but it typically delays things as we have to have a new order in the system for Sager's new pricing.

    If my order is already in process and the price changes and I place another order to honor the price wouldn't I almost be subject to a cancellation fee or that same 3% hughheaves got hit with? I know Xotic would be doing me a favor I guess in honoring the price, but wouldn't they be cancelling the original order because I made a new one with the new price?

    Do you guys call up Sager and use the same build? He made it sound like it starts all over again so what happened to the original order?
     
  23. hugheaves

    hugheaves Notebook Enthusiast

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    No, the main issue here is that Xotic PC told me my laptop was backordered so I cancelled. Afterwards, they told me "oops, it actually wasn't backordered so we're going to hit you up with a 3% cancellation charge".

    I get that "Any laptop order cancelled after moving to production status is subject to a 3% cancel fee." However, backordered != in production.

    Unbelievable.
     
  24. Support.3@XOTIC PC

    Support.3@XOTIC PC Company Representative

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    There is no cancel fee if you are replacing an order, only if there is a cancel for a refund.

    And to clarify the question to your 30 day price guarantee. There is not one once it has shiped out, but if the price drops before it ships out then we can do that for the lower price.
     
  25. hugheaves

    hugheaves Notebook Enthusiast

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    Apparently, "Aftershock PC" is selling the new versions:

    http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/442525-clevo-skylake-laptops/

    There's a review here:

    http://www.cnet.com/products/aftershock-sm-15/

    I didn't bother to check which market they are in. I was assuming as they got them first, that it wasn't in the US. :) However, it's a good sign that Clevo Skylake laptops are on the way. It's just a matter of how long you can stand to wait. :)
     
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  26. JMattes

    JMattes Notebook Consultant

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    Thanks for the post the Aftershock S-15 seems to be what I am looking for an after the conversion is $1550 ish. Needs a bigger SSD and more ram, but he has an IPS display, IC Tim, Screen Calibration, and an extended warranty.. So I am hoping prices remain the same. Maybe even take 8gb ram on the ddr4 for now until better rams becomes cheaper than upgrade.
     
  27. Bullrun

    Bullrun Notebook Deity

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    Certainly, I understand why Sager wouldn't waive the fee. They got the order from XoticPC. They allocated a machine for the build. All systems go on their end.

    I don't understand why XoticPC won't eat the fee. In chat, XoticPC, through their rep., gave erroneous information to hughheaves. He acted upon that information, cancelling his order. It seems that if he was given the correct information he wouldn't have cancelled the order. Unfortunately, mistakes happen. This was XoticPC's mistake not hughheaves'.
     
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  28. Support.3@XOTIC PC

    Support.3@XOTIC PC Company Representative

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    Unfortunately this order didn't end up well for either party. We really do try to help out. Whether its good or bad, or its here on NBR or things that never make it to the forum we do want to take care of everyone the best of our limits.
     

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  29. Bullrun

    Bullrun Notebook Deity

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    There's no doubt, if I ordered from XoticPC, I would have you involved from the start. I see you always trying to help here on NBR.
     
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  30. Support.3@XOTIC PC

    Support.3@XOTIC PC Company Representative

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    Thank you for that :)
     
  31. SIartibartfast

    SIartibartfast Notebook Enthusiast

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    Wow this is quite an awful attitude from xoticpc. Make a mistake, acknowledge that, and still have the customer pay for it. I thought this would be the company's responsibility to take care of the fee.
     
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  32. hugheaves

    hugheaves Notebook Enthusiast

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    You would think so. :) I've got a case opened with the BBB, but so far, they've given the BBB the same response. They acknowledge that they made a mistake when they told me the laptop was on backorder, but have refused to provide a refund of the 3% "in production" charge.
     
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