3XS Carbon Extreme (P775DM3) from Scan UK

To be honest, I didn't think to ask which chassis. At this point a working machine would nice be it KM1, DM3 or DM2 lol

 

I'd ask them. If it is KM1, it would make waiting a bit easier

 

Update 16/03/17 -2: I have just received Scan's reply and they are basically saying that I should be thankful that CPU can run at 4.2 under sustain load. Again to quote them verbatim, ' s ystem is not overheating as such, but it's unlikely to sustain the turbo frequency at these temps, although fortunately the CPU did not throttle and maintained the 4.2GHz according to testing results.'

I am incensed. I think I again need to calm myself down before responding lest I say something rude.

 

That is a lame excuse. Like literally. They are just trying to get out doing actual replacement / work.

 

I couldn't agree more. I replied advising them not to insult my intelligence by suggesting that there is anything fortunate about 7700K barely maintaining 4.2 under sustained load with temperatures between 90C and 100C.

 

I just found @madeinholt review of the same machine, please do have a read as his experience closely resembles mine.

http://chillpcs.com/scan-3xs-carbon-extreme-17-gaming-laptop-clevo-p775dm3g/2017

 

Update 17/03/17: I just received another email from Scan. This time the tone is more polite and I cannot detect any condescension which is always a plus. Anyway, the engineer informed me that he hasn't been able to bring down temperatures but it seems CPU is holidng on to 4.2 and only drops below that in AIDA. They tell me that they don't usually use AIDA for testing their machines.

I have replied telling them that AIDA stability test more accurately reflects my usage scenario (some intensive rendering and simulation stuff plus games like Witcher 3 running at ultra for a couple of hours). I personally think that in its present state if we were to run one of our more intensive artificial neural network analysis program on the machine, CPU would go kaput! In any case, they seem to be implying that 4.2 is the magic figure I should be happy with and stop complaining. Interestingly enough, I have not received either an acknowledgement or an apology for their blunder (that is doing QC and stability test with multiplier set at 38)!

 

Yeah specially when using renderers like Vray and Mantra.
I actually have a RT scene setup for Maya and Max to make sure the machine wont temp throttle at a certain clock speed. Basically contains multiple Objects with the Emerald/Ember/Glass shaders and caustics enabled. Along with a few with the Car shader with multiple layers and a few objects with the SSS shader. Pushes the processor pretty hard with the sampling turned up.
In Houdini, i just give it a crazy VDB/Pyro/FLIP sim

 

Sidefx stuff can really stress a computer!

I hope some one at Scan reads this thread and picks on points that users like yourself ( @bloodhawk) are making. These machines should be able to handle programs like Houdini without going anywhere near their TjMax!


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True that, on the workstation at work i usually have 2 Simulations running in the background working on a 3rd shot at the same time. This is on a 40 Core 80T system. But even considering that, the temperatures dont go crazy even on my DM1/DM3.

 

That is a wicked system! We have some folks over in physic departments who work on qubits (those things grow at the rate of 2 raise to n!) I asked them what computer they are using for simulation etc and they looked at me really funny! They told me it all goes to HPCS at Cambridge as we don't have anything that can handle stuff like that!

I agree with you that temperatures should remain in manageable range.


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That is utter nonsense, I had a screen shot of Aida (Trial Version) in the test information folder that Scan put on the USB stick they include.

 

All i can say is wow, do they really think that their customers are stupid and wont find out the discrepancies?

 

Included in the folder 3XS Test Pictures - note they only test a 7700K at 4.2GHz.



Personally, I don't even think this was a photo of my own (former) system - I had 2400 RAM!

 

It is unfortunate that things turned out the way they did. Most unfortunate.

 

Scan, PC Specialist and CyberpowerUK all seem to be ill-equipped to deal with the issues created by putting a desktop 'K' processor and a high-end desktop rated GTX graphics card in a laptop.

 

I think more than being ill-equipped, they just do not wish to deal with issues. Calculation on their part is either customer would never stress the system where overheating becomes an issue or would fail to notice. I am not sure how many of us are out there who monitor how the system is behaving and then chase Scan to make sure we are not being...shafted.

I think how they deal with my case would be instructional in assessing their attitude towards customers who demand that their system perform to standards they advertise.

 

Update 20/03/17: Just contacted their online support and here is the update I got,

" We are still working on getting the temperature down on the laptop and see if we can get an update this afternoon, temps for 4.2 where* about 90 to 95 and the CPU was not throttling"

I don't even know how to react to that kind of BS anymore. I am just tired of arguing with these folks who say these things with a straight face.

 

Just them tell to install a new heat sink and use a better paste like ICD/Gelid GCE or Kryonaut. Best solution would be to delid the processor, but I highly doubt they would do that.

 

I have already mentioned swapping heat sink, but apparently it 'maintains contact with CPU and GPU ' and there is no issue with that.

I am not sure about thermal paste. Maybe IC diamond will help but Scan really only uses Arctic MX5. I will mention it to them again.


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Jesus Christ, they really need to step up their thermal paste game if they even remotely want to bring the temperatures down. And i have a feeling they got rid of your undervolt, so they are pretty much running in blind. Only if they listened to you the first time and checked out the forums.

 

Update 20/03/17 -2: I have been contacted by the engineer working on the laptop. First of all, his tone is more measured than that of customer service and system support guys. He seems to understand how frustrating this whole experience has been for me. Anyway, he informed me that he has not been able to bring down temperatures. He will consult one of the senior technicians tomorrow and they are going to try a new CPU.

It is running latest BIOS which applies -100mV by default. I had another 40 running on top of that. I imagine they might have gotten rid of it.

 

They should really get you a new heatsink... And some good thermal paste... They have cooler master mastergel pro thermal paste which looks good in their store so should be able to try that!

https://www.scan.co.uk/products/coo...paste-8-w-mk-sraper-plus-alcohol-cleaner-grey

 

I have just sent them another email suggesting following,

1. Try a new heatsink (I had suggested it earlier as well but maybe they'd listen this time).
2. Try different thermal compound, including some of the liquid metal variety.
3. Try different chassis. It is possible that something might have gone wrong with the chassis.


We will see if they would take my suggestions onboard.

 

Blasphemy. How can a mere mortal customer be right ?

 

That indeed seems to be their approach to things so far. Hopefully the engineer would be more receptive to my suggestions.

 

Update 21/03/17: I was expecting a response from them by the afternoon about the state of the machine but did not get one. So I send them an email asking what is going on..and they just replied. Right off the bat they pissed me off by addressing me as 'Scott' which is as far from my name as possible. Usually I wouldn't give a flying toss about this but this whole experience has left me in rather unpleasant mood and that just ticked me off. So here is what they sent me,

'Hi Scott, Your system has run Witcher for a day and a half with no graphical issues, we can see the images you have sent appear to display graphical artefacts however - we will look in to this further.
The CPU temps reached the 90s on this testing, however did not throttle performance fortunately.
The CPU however has throttled in AIDA64, with or without FPU ticked according to the repair notes.
We can send this laptop to a repair centre that specialise in these chassis if you wish.'

At this point I don't really know what to do. I need the machine for my work and here they are proposing to send it back to Clevo (presumably). I bought this machine on 10/12/2016 and in three months of ownership, it has spend atleast a month in Scan's repair centre.

 

Sorry Scott, you are having one hell of an experience man.

Did they even try a different paste?

 

I do not know. And that is truly infuriating. They did not respond to my earlier suggestions about trying different thermal paste, swapping the heat sink or/and the chassis, and instead send me a recycled message from earlier in the process. It is a bloody nightmare. Mind you, this did not come from the engineer working on my system, but from one of their customer service champions. You compare these folks with @John@OBSIDIAN-PC , @XMG or @Donald@HIDevolution and you realise what a rotten sad excuse of a service I am getting here in blighty.

I can't believe I recommended Scan to other people on the forum.

 

If they are not able to sort this mess out, will they be able to give you a refund ?

 

I don't know. I am going to ask them about a refund now. I really like the machine and don't actually want to return it but cannot accept a subpar cooling performance. What I am apprehensive about is them coming back to me with some sort of mallarkey about restocking fee etc. That will put me in a really foul mood. Who knows what I would do then, I might start typing all my emails to them in all CAPs. That would show them, wouldn't it?

 

Know your pain - 4 of the last 5 weeks my machine has been at Scan and currently at Clevo (presumably), getting the screen replaced, which had got damaged during the last repair/delivery. Have no idea when it will get back

 

It most definitely would lol.

 

Sad to hear all the problems you are having with your laptop.

Question to others: Which is the nearest Clevo service center in the EU ? I assume it's in Germany close to where CEG is also located ?

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Don't really know. I think they meant back to Clevo, rather than a service centre. I have asked them for more clarity on the issue.

I cannot continue without my machine for much longer. I am working on a serious timeline (I need to finish before June 30th) and need the machine to sort through a ton of data and finish all the rendering jobs.

If scan cannot fix it for me by the end of the week, I'll want a refund asap so that I can look at other options.




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I think they send to Goldenstar, based in Earley, Reading, UK.

 

I think it would be best if I just post the entire chat here. It is most enlightening, particularly the idea that 95C in Witcher 3 is not overheating. I think I'd develop high blood pressure if I were to have more conversations with Scan customer reps.

Scan: Hi, how can I help?
DM: Could you please ask the engineer working on my system to get back to me with an update today?
DM: I need to know if issues with the machine can be resolved anytime soon. I cannot do without it any longer, my work is taking a hit and it has gone beyond just a nuisance.
Scan: I'm just looking through your notes for the most recent update
DM: Please don't give me the same recycled responses which you colleagues have already done. I made a set of suggestions to Ben. He had also informed me, day before yesterday, that he was going to discuss the issue with one of his senior engineers. I want to know what is happening on that front.
Scan: No problem I'm just looking into it. As I understand it the system came back for overheating. We have tested the system in games and 3dmark etc. and it isn't thermal throttling however we can see it does when running a stress test in AIDA 64
Scan: This isn't considered a fault because the laptop is designed for gaming and performs as expected in games. However we tried re-pasting it with different types of thermal paste to see if we can improve the temperatures for you however it hasn't made a difference
Scan: So we can either return the system to you as is, as we haven't found a fault. Or we could send the chassis back to it's manufacturer to see if there's anything further they can suggest to improve temperatures
Scan: I'll just double check the engineer was using the performance fan profile as well, there isn't a note to specifically state either way
Scan: He's on his lunch break so I'll check that with him later today
DM: So let me get this straight, you are telling me that you have done all that you can and you cannot resolve the issue and can either return the laptop in the same state as it is, or send it back to manufacturer?
Scan: Not quite, I'm saying there isn't an issue. The laptop is designed for gaming and works normally in games. Even in stress tests it isn't having faults, it is just getting hot so it needs to reduce performance to compensate
Scan: All modern computers do this when they get too hot
DM: So you are telling me that there is not any issue with the machine other than overheating which is part and parcel of modern day computers?
Scan: I'm saying it isn't overheating when being used for it's intended purpose
Scan: Only in extreme synthetic tests
DM: And you are going to decide its intended purpose, would you? What you call extreme synthetic tests best replicate my usage scenario. Anyway, indulging in verbal acrobatics is rather beside the point and I can see this conversation is not going anywhere. You have made your position quite clear on the matter. Could you please ask your manage to get in touch with me? I'd like to know if they hold the same position as you and your colleagues do with respect to synthetic tests, intended purposes, and overheating etc.
DM: *manager
Scan: I can confirm this is Scan's stance, not just me personally. I've checked with my manager already. When I say intended purpose I mean that we sold it as a gaming laptop so you'd expect it to work normally in games
DM: Wonderful. Nonetheless, I'd like to interact with him/her personally. Would that be acceptable or is it too much of an inconvenience?
Scan: No that's fine I can arrange that if you'd like. he's on a half day today so that will most likely be tomorrow now. Is that OK?
Scan: Also would you prefer a phone call or e-mail?
DM: Thank you. I prefer email.
DM: Thank you James. Have a good day.
Scan: No problem, you should hear back before 5:30pm tomorrow
Scan: Take care

 

Meanwhile, here's an interesting read about 7700K that I found - http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/intel-kaby-lake-core-i7-7700k-i7-7700-i5-7600k-i5-7600,4870.html

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Thats BS on Scan's part. It's a bloody computer not an Xbox.

Can it run Windows 10 - Yes - Computer
Can it run Office - Yes - Computer
Can it run Maya - Yes - Computer
Can it run Photoshop - Yes - Computer
Can it run Games - Yes - Computer

Etc etc...

If you get a chance to speak to a manager get them to replace the chassis and make sure they only swap over your gfx, cpu, ram and storage and use the new heatsinks from the new chassis as a last ditch chance to get the thermals under control, I still think theres a bad heatpipe.

Hopefully you'll get to talk with Adam Payseno (3XS Systems Support Manager), he at least did seem to have his head screwed on

 

Oooh the Great Kaby Lake Potato Lottery

Delidding is really the only option with most Kaby's by the looks of

 

Yes I am aware of that. The engineer working on my system was supposed to try a new CPU but he hasn't gotten back to me. Maybe the new CPU would show better thermals. Or maybe they just do not waste their time on it as there isn't really any 'issue' with the bloody thing.

Couldn't agree more (about the BS part). I am looking forward to hearing from Adam. And it would be a good start if he would begin by apologizing about the cock up with CPU multipliers instead of recycling his colleagues' email responses.

I am looking into legal situation with regards to return etc. It seems they are going to be difficult and as a matter of principle, I am going to be equally difficult. There is no point in being considerate if the other side is very much inclined to evade responsibility, patronize, and in general be unpleasant.

 

Who's your engineer ?

 

Just PM'ed you. I do not want to violate any forum rule and it is always best to respect individuals' privacy.

 

same here Scan are really not good. p670hs-g went back on the 6th of March. still not got it or refund. Apparently it is fine.. Never mind booting in to windows temp over 90 degrees witcher within 2 minutes up to 100. yeah all is well..

I shall do a proper review of them and the experience I had with them in short time. I will not let them behave like this and if I save even only one person from them and their CS I will be happy.

 

Update 23/03/17: So I did not receive any emails from them. It is a bit of a pattern, they don't really respond till you chase them. Anyway I logged into their chat and had the following conversation.

DM: Query XXXXXXX
*** Scan joined the chat ***
Scan: Hi, You are through to systems support. How can I help you today?
DM: Hello, I had a conversation with one of your colleagues yesterday, XXXXXX. I asked him if it would be possible to get in touch with your manager, and I was told that it is and I should expect an email from your manager before 1700 (on 23/03/17).
DM: I have not received anything, so I am just wondering if he or she would be able to contact me?
Scan: Okay apologies for that, I can see the request was passed over although the manager hasnt been able to make it into the office today. I believe he will be back in tomorrow although cannot confirm this. I can put in a request for tomorrow and Email you myself if he isnt available?
DM: I guess so. That seems to be the only option anyway. Also, there is the matter of the engineer working on my system. He mentioned in his email on Tuesday that he was going to try a different CPU to check if it helped with the temperatures. Any news from him?
Scan: Ill take a look into that for you, Bear with me one moment.
DM: Okay, I can wait.
Scan: Okay apologies for the delay, We are waiting for the manager to confirm as the component isn't faulty.
DM: Could you please elaborate? Do you mean to say that your manager would only email me if component is faulty?
Scan: No, apologies for he confusion, We can only swap out faulty components, For us to swap out a working component, The manager would have to authorize this.
DM: I see.
DM: Scan thank you for your help and have a lovely evening. I am looking forward to receiving your manager's email tomorrow.
Scan: No problem, I will keep your Query here on my desk and contact you in the event of him not being available, Please do get back in touch if you need any further help. Thankyou for your time and have a nice evening too.
DM: Thanks

I am sure you can see where this is going. It is so disappointing how Scan has behaved. Feel free to correct me if you think I am over-reacting to the whole situation. Because otherwise I just cannot believe that they are behaving this way.

 

Now that's really bad temps on a mobile 35w-45w cpu and thought us with desktop cpu's had it bad

 

At this point i would just tell them to get it fixed by XX date or give you a refund otherwise.

 

I 'd like to but I don't think it is going to be that straight forward.

First, I am out of the thirty days return window so that complicates things. Second, as you can see, they are refusing to even entertain the notion that there is any fault with the machine.

But I am definitely going to push for a refund at this stage. I am sorely disappointed in them.


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They said there is no issue AT ALL from what I gather?