Repaste those Razer Blade 2015's at your own risk!

I bet if he use something thick such as Arctic MX-4 or something similar he would get same as factory results.

I remember back when i owned a desktop that with my Xigmatek Aegir which also used direct heatpipe contact that i've needed "worse" paste to get better results. So in the end paste such as MX2 and MX4 provided much better results that ic7 diamond. Funny thing is that Aegir worked really well with direct heat pipe contact while being considerably cheaper that competition.

 

I used MX-4 on my 2014 Blade. CPU temp was slightly lower but GPU temp was 2-4 degrees higher. I tried with both a small amount of paste and large amount (but not quite as much as stock), got roughly the same temps with both methods. I'm almost thinking of using an excessively large amount of paste to mimic how much stock paste was originally on there, see if that makes any difference. Odds are though, after what they posted on Razer Insider, they used a specific paste because it performed the best given how Razer designed the thermal pipes.

 

Those threads are getting out of hand O_O

 

Possibly. After reading all the comments though I am quite disappointed in what the community has become. The CEO even had to go as far as to say the personal attacks need to stop. This is a gaming/enthusiast machine, unless you have no idea how to operate a computer the first thing you do to ANY machine is replace the thermal compound. It's just...normal...Had they flat out said they were using some custom paste I wouldn't have bothered. I repasted my Aorus and dropped temps by about 7c. In the end it is what it is.

 

Lol. They are trying to call me out saying I deleted this thread out of rage because...internet.

Anyway, had I known then what I know now. Would I do it? Nope. Was it a flaw on Razer's part? Probably not.

WOW.

"So cut him/her some slack - he/she wouldn't have been wrong 99% of the time."

Super nice comment

 

Lol most insider fans think of Razer as the second coming of Jesus. You will definitely get a lot of cr*p from them. It was an honest mistake because as the CEO said, you would have been right most of the time. However with extremely thin machines, I tend to get the warranty and be done with it. If it dies due to bad thermals, just exchange it for a new one.

 

Yeah, stay off that page -- it was looking caustic this morning. It won't do any good to read on there. I've done long term reliability tests for the IC representative here on NBR, re-pasted countless notebooks for myself, friends and coworkers -- always with stellar results. There's a reason why it's offered as a standard ~$30 upgrade option for most other notebooks through all the re-sellers.

This is the one time it might not work out, but I'm still hoping you take another crack or two at applying it and end up ahead. Don't forget to upload a pic when you take it apart! -- I'm eager to see what the paste looks like under there for the temps you're seeing.

 

I'll grab another pic when I get everything in to do the heat spreader (which they are recommending against but at this point I really have no choice except to continue with my tests)

 

Yep. High road. This is one of the reasons I bought it.

I still agree that if you can get an efficient shim in there you might drop temps like 5c at most. I don't think thermal epoxy on the shim to the chip is a good idea though, it should be fused to the heat pipe assembly somehow. That's just my opinion. It's going to take careful planning and execution.

The reason I say this is if the epoxy solution doesn't work, you're screwed. If the other solution doesn't work, the worst is that the CPU/GPU shuts down overheating and you live another day to get a $60 part from eBay.

That part is worth it just for the fans, they are like $50 each on aliexpress.

 

Something of a celeb there


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

No no no I wasn't going to put epoxy on the die to the shim! From the shim to the heatpipe was the plan

 

Ahh ok.. good.

I think I misunderstood a previous post.

 

I really don't think they use "custom" paste, designed specifically for them, RnD for such stuff is quite expensive. Biggest stretch they could have done is picking one that has characteristics that would suit them best in the long run by picking something available on the market.. Something greasy that does not dehydrate fast. And pretty much any can serve that purpose, like I previously stated, before you start adding extra pressure to the current mounting and flex motherboard which could cause cold solder faster in the long run - just try using any thermal grease you have at hand.

Heck you can even use tooth paste if you are careful just to check my theory it will transfer heat (and most likely electricity so be careful) for few hours just fine (at least till it dries out).

Trick with direct contact heat-pipes is that it requires extra paste due to heat-pipes not being finely brushed and polished as its the case with regular coolers.

Its not magic Razzer invented, nor new cooling standard but rather something that been available for quite some time.

Take a look at this.

 

All that is assuming the heatpipes don't have gaps between them where this actually does have gaps.

 

man I feel bad for ya for getting attacked by all these razertards. ming liang tan thinks he's a genius when all he could do is summon mob attacks.

 

Custom cooling paste or not, that is still bad design - leaving large, un-filed gaps between cooling pipes.

Min-Liang Tan says that the Blade was designed for themselves (gamers) - clearly, he doesn't know what others want.

 

I think 99% of the people reading his custom thermal solution explanation, only think higher of Razer's quality now. That's pretty genius to me

 

Please don't turn this into what the other threads turned into. I'm not trying to start a flame war.

 

Fair enough - but those are (relatively) mindless Razer fanboys. He doesn't choose to explain certain contradictory design concepts like leaving large pipe gaps that no one else with a decent knowledge of thermal transfer would think of.

I like how @LVNeptune conceded defeat at Reddit but continues battling on here - he knows where the smart people are.

Razer has great quality, undeniably - but notebook thermal design is not one of them. Clevo engineers have more idea of what they're doing than do Razer's.

EDIT: To not turn this into a flame war, I'd like to ask a legitimate question: can anyone reason why Razer chose to use such a strange method of cooling contact - large gaps between pipes and even more thermal interface material to plug it up. This severely reduces efficiency of heat transfer.

 

Official explanation from Razer staff:
"Historically a copper slug (or “heat spreader”) has been the point of contact between the largest point sources of heat (CPU and GPU) in order to ensure that hot spots from the package did not miss contact with the heat pipe.

Today, CPUs and GPUs are much better at evenly distributing heat across the entire surface of the package. Our thermal analysis has shown that the application of a heat spreader does not substantially improve the spreading of heat, and other factors such as heat pipe thickness can have a much greater impact on thermal efficiency and capacity within a constrained product thickness.

In fact, in some cases (such as the Blade) having a heat spreader located between the CPU/GPU and the heat pipes can act as additional thermal resistance and can lower the efficiency of the overall system. Though it is less conventional to do so, Razer chose to eliminate this inefficiency.

For the 2015 Razer Blade we redesigned the thermal architecture by modifying and improving the efficiency of the thermal assembly. As part of the redesign, we removed the heat spreaders while substantially increasing the TDP of the system. As such, the 2015 Razer Blade has the same form factor of the earlier 2014 Razer Blade but is able to contain a much higher TDP without an increase in skin temperatures."

You can read the whole thing here:
https://insider.razerzone.com/index.php?threads/razer-blade-engineering-design-and-thermals.4515/

Although when they were asked what specifically was changed between 2014 and 2015 model, they have not answered.

To me, the whole explanation is somewhat vague, but maybe they are trying to keep their secrets.

Anyway, I hope LVNeptune can figure out what's going on.

 

"Although when they were asked what specifically was changed between 2014 and 2015 model, they have not answered."

That's their choice. I just want to know what is different because there is no heat spreader on the 2014 model as far as I know. It's the same one..? Maybe not.

EDIT: Yes, I just looked at a 2014 disassembly, it's the same physical design.
http://www.myfixguide.com/manual/razer-blade-2014-disassembly/

 

It doesn't look like there is any difference between the 2014 and 2015 aside from the differences in CPU and GPU TDP. 37+100 vs 47+75?

EDIT: just got to the last page in tapatalk.. LVNep found the pics.. HTWingNut also had a thread he started with pics as well.. I think I linked it earlier

 

I just looked at pictures of the 2014 disassembly on ifixit and it looks different....different in that its not just the pipes that are touching the chips but rather it is shimmed with copper.

EDIT: its a 2013 blade

 

This is wierd...I looked at lvneptunes link. The heatsink looks the same contact wise as 2015. Look at this one on ifixit for 2014. It looks different with the contacts...much cleaner like the aorus x3+. https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Razer Blade 14 (2013) Teardown/22591 step 8: middle picture

Edit: ifixit is a 2013

 

That's a ridiculous explanation they have there, and the commenters there also have no idea what they're talking about.

Granted, a heat spreader might reduce transfer efficiency, and Razer chose to directly contact the silicon with the heat pipes.

But then, Razer didn't even sand down the pipes and left them as-is, instead choosing to fill the gaps with something even less effective than a heat spreader - thermal paste.

The probable reason why @LVNeptune got worse thermal performance was because he spread the thermal paste perfectly and smoothly, which is not optimal for such large air gaps.

I don't buy the Razer engineer's explanation of their using custom thermal paste, and at any rate, the most effective thermal paste only provides a 5°C improvement in temperatures over stock. It's all in the application and not the paste itself.

I also don't buy his explanation of modern CPUs and GPUs being 'far more effective' at spreading heat over their surfaces - if not, why do desktop GPU manufacturers still strap two large fans and a half kilogram of metal to the card?

Finally, I detest the fact that Razer parades its systems as 'custom' and advises against opening them up. We have another Apple-esque OEM here.

 

I took it apart to check the cure status of ic7. It turns into a putty when it cures which is kind of what the stock stuff was, I used a little spatula that came with it to move it back into the air gaps and reassembled. I added some thermal transfer pads on the heatsink as well and with the bottom panel off i was getting 87c and 93c with cover on when fans are at full. If I can get it a couple degrees lower I can remove thermal throttling all together. Which would bring it slightly better than stock.

 

Are you still using XTU to test?

 

I applaud you LVNeptune. Don't let the flaming from the less considerate burn you.
I'm glad to have seen this "blow up" on so many different channels with so many readers. It could be said that thousands of eyes have now (or will have) seen this conversation, and that means even more pressure for Razer to continue to make quality, well planned products, and hopefully improve their QC (i personally went through 3 RA'd 2014 Blade Pros).

With the CEO's involvement, this also makes me confident that this conversation will be of consideration or topic during a company meeting of some form or another. I wouldn't be surprised if next year's blade, and it's promotion, focus heavily (or MORE heavily) on its cooling. Not to say that the current cooling design isn't already heavily engineered and well thought out, but perhaps we could see Razer promote the sustainable temperatures of its future laptops (we all understand what heat does over time to electronic components). How nice would it be to own the nicest looking, best build quality, one of the fastest, and one of the cooler (compared to its competition) laptops out there, rather than the bedside heater that it is labeled as these days.

I'd happily purchase a Razer notebook that was a couple millimeters thicker, with the same build quality, but with improved thermals. Just for the peace of mind
LVNeptune, is it possible to re-title these threads? Perhaps your title "Repaste Those Razer Blade 2015's the Stock Paste is APPALLING" was a bit premature. If it can be altered it might make more sense to simply call it "Repasting The Razer Blade 2015". It's definitely less "flame-worthy", but still speaks to your goals while respecting the possible correct steps Razer took in their thermal design.

Keep tinkering though. Because if you are right, then Razer is out in the open about a DIY'er designing better thermals than they could. And if you're wrong, then good too, because that means Razer is quite possibly the company we hope they are, and undoubtedly will continue to try to improve and win us over with each iteration.

I love this forum community. Keep gettin after it.

 

To be fair people exaggerate how hot the blade gets. I did another 15 minutes stress test today and it averaged 86. The top of the PC, even around the power button was only slightly warm (palmrest was cool to the touch) and that is the same as my P650SE , a much bigger machine. Granted that the video card runs much cooler in the Clevo (less than 60 at load) but these new cards are so cool that it's almost irrelevant.

 

The 2014 model must be running cooler due to the lower TDP. The 2015 is running mid 90's for everyone
Yes using XTU. Interested in permanently stopping thermal throttling but that's the only program that shows thermal throttle percentage

 

My XTU definitely doesn't show throttling. I guess it hits mid-90s but it definitely averages 86. That thermal throttling percentage stays at 0% though. At least during the 15 minutes.

 

Isnt the tdp lower for 2015? I mean the cpu marginally higher in tdp but the card (970m) is substantially lower than the 870m (110w tdp vs 970m with 75w tdp). If anything I would expect temps on 2015 to be lower...right?

 

We are talking about cpu specifically not total w/ GPU. GPU definitely should be better

 

Thanks!

I would actually change the thread but after the forum's upgrade I have no earthly idea how to see what moderators are in each subforum anymore.

 

Thanks for clarifying. Makes sense now

 

I've been seeing a heck load of flaming posts from Razer fans directed at you; I've long left these forums due to workload but thought I'd come back to say this since I remembered your name from the Alienware forums back in the days. Don't be discouraged by all of the insults thrown at you; I think those of us who've seen the work you've done know the contributions you've made. So keep it up and don't let it get you down!

 

Thank you very much for those kind words

 

Pic is with it flat. Elevated it goes as low as 85c. Also while elevated it goes a minute without the fans being at 100%, more like 75%.

 

15 min! I can send an hours worth tomorrow morning.

 

@RazerCS @Razer I'm thinking that we all need to forgive and forget. Perhaps Min-Lian could reach out directly to @LVNeptune and swap this out and call it "lesson learned".

 

You can do it yourself.

 

It's better than it was at this point and I'm getting no thermal throttling so I'm happy.

 

How? Some forums you can edit your first post and there's an option to change the thread title. That's not the case here.

 

Pathetic!

 

I just noticed the new edit of the OP. So much for Razer's claims of custom-engineering their laptops for maximum performance and for themselves and gamers. A laptop that thermal-throttles in completely stock, off-the-shelf conditions has poor thermal management design - end of story, full stop. Razer fans can applaud Min-Liang Tan all they want for his superfluous explanation and claim that it's very enlightening, but the numbers prove that he's wrong, dead wrong.

95°C at stock conditions is ridiculous - I think Razer engineers have a really bad sense of what are safe operating temperatures. 95°C may be a little less than the maximum thermal limit of 100-102°C, but not a lot less. Continuous gaming sessions several times a day at such temperatures can quickly wear down components.

@LVNeptune, keep posting those updates - I'm looking forward to see if you can thumb your nose at Razer by properly modifying the internals to improve cooling. Have you considered using a large press to flatten the heat pipes, and then sanding them down?

 

I have not. I have some ideas when all my stuff gets here within the next few days I am going to run a test using a 1mm thermal pad sheet over the cpu/gpu and heat pipes. I am thinking I will get temps down to another 3-5c doing this.

 

It's in "Thread Tools" if you're looking at your Original Post on the thread you started

 

does the new RB really get that hot that this was all something that had to be done? asking since, i'm still considering the 1080p version, but if it does get really hot after a bit of gaming that you can't even touch certain parts of the notebook, then i think i will just have to hold off.

 

It was to prevent thermal throttling when running XTU/Prime95. I have accomplished this.

 

oh ok. how hot does it get when watching videos, web surfing? would i be able to use it for say an hour without a lap desk? i have the Alienware 15 now, and it gets warm while doing those. just trying to get an idea of how much hotter the Blade would be. still torn if i should stick with the AW15, or re-consider the RB.