Fl90 VideoCard Trouble

Hello.
I have problem, and need help. So i have laptop FL90 - Config: T7700, 4gb DDR2, Nvidia GeForce 8600m GT. I buy it two years ago and now my video card is died. Light in monitor work but picture absent. In my country i cant find this cards. I want buy it from ebay. But i think maybe upgrade my lap? I read that ATI cards work on my model. HD3650 and HD4650 may work. So i want ask your opinion. What card will be work most successfully? And what memory size of card is better? One more question is how much does normal price of this cards? I look on ebay and prices of HD3650 is difference. And i cant find ATI HD4650 on ebay. Only cards for desktops... Help me find rite card and make good choose. Card need to me for games and for good working programs like Adobe Affter effects and Sony Vegas (i work with Full HD video).
Sorry if this is not first question in this forum but English not my mother language and i cant normal use search and write long texts. Help please. My all works stops when card died.

 

Well.
Welcome to the forum.
And sorry for the problem you have got with your laptop.
We would recommend you the HD3650 (it's easy to find). There are 3 kinds of it : 512Mb DDRII (the most common one), 1Gb DDRII (useless) and the 256Mb GDDRIII (the most powerful of this type).
The problem is the price, while you can get the 512Mb DDRII @ around 50-70€, the 256Mb GDDRIII costs about 110€. Why so much difference? Because, if we compare the 512DDRII one with our old 8600M GT, It may slightly have a better perfomance, so little that you can't almost notice. The 256Mb GDDRIII is better than the 512DDRII and quite more powerful. So it would be somethingg like " HD3650 256Mb GDRRIII > HD3650 512Mb DDRII > 8600M GT 512Mb "
I'm not sure about the difference between the GDDRIII and DDRII in terms of performance, maybe Dh or Ayle can explain it better to you.
Hope I could have helped you a bit.

 

Welcome to the forum.

Like henxu said, the Mobility Radeon HD3650 will propably be your safest bet. I'd go for the GDDR3 version though. The HD3650 DDR2 is not much of an upgrade compared to the 8600M GT DDR2. Memory size is does not really matter in most cases. DDR2 memory is considerable slower then GDDR3 memory. It does not matter that there is double the ammount of memory cause once the DDR2 memory is full it will take some while to empty it while the GDDR3 can be emptied and refilled at a much faster rate.

The HD3650 GDDR3 can also be undervolted and overclocked quite well so it runs cooler and then the 8600M GT but has more power.

Of course you could also go for a HD4650 1GB DDR2 - which has much more power then all the 3650s. Although it has relatively slow memory the card has nearly 3 times the amount of shader units (probably the most determining factor for a modern GPU) than the HD3650. You can find the HD4650 DDR2 version here, here or here.

The price is ranging from 105€ to 200€. MXM-Upgrade will be the most trustworthy shop but the shop offering the card for 105€ should be safe too.

I can also give you a small overview I created back when I was deciding on an upgrade for my FL90:

8600M GT DDR2 = ~4940 * / +0% / 0 €
HD3650 DDR2 = ~6034 * / +22% / 70 € = 3,18€ per 1% performance increase
HD3560 GDDR3 = 7543 /+52% / 110 € = 2,55€ per 1% performance increase
HD4650 DDR2 = ~10087 * /+204% / 200 € = 0,98€ per 1% performance increase
HD4670 GDDR3 = 12614 / +255% / ???

*80% of the 3DMark05 score of the respective GDDR3 version of the card.

So even though 200 euro seem like a lot of money it has the best price/performance ratio and you can always try to get the HD4650 for 105€ the worst thing that can happen is that they will say they cannot deliver the card (at that price) in which case you can decide to pay more or just cancel the order or order somewhere else.

 

So, thank you very much. Your information help me. Good support. I think, i will try to buy HD4650 Here.. There is my country wried, i see tax is fast and not so expensive.
I look in ebay.com card hd3650 with GDDR3 but not found... Only DDR2. If you can, give me pls link where sells HD3650 with GDDR3. If i have not 200 euro i buy cheaper card. It will be HD3650. And one more question. How strongly HD4650 heating? Will be standard cooler, cool this powerful card? Or i need include some more cooling devices?

 

http://cgi.ebay.es/ATI-HD3650-HD-3650-DDR3-256MB-M86-MXM-II-Vedio-VGA-Card_W0QQitemZ250580968426QQcmdZViewItemQQptZPCC_Video_TV_Cards?hash=item3a57ca23ea
Here you've got the GDDR3 version.
It's the only one you can buy from eBay.

If you want the 4650, If you apply AC5 or something on your heatpipes/GPU core, and you re-apply or buy new thermal pads, it will be OK. (I think).

Btw, dh, I think 4650 on mxmupgrade costs 200, or at least, it says that. =S quite expensive too. is it really compatible at all?

 

Somebody in a polish forum put a Mobility Radeon HD 4670 in the FL90 and it worked so the HD 4650 should work as well.

Just apply MX-2 or MX-3 to the GPU and CPU (you can apply AS5 but MX-2/3 is so much easier to apply and application is more important then the small quality difference between those high quality thermal pastes), I also bought new thermal pads from ebay.

However, what costs you nothing and what you should do in any case is undervolt both CPU and GPU. I could undervolt my T7500 from 1.25V to 1.0125V which made a difference of 20°C. You can undervolt the GPU from 1.1V to 1.0V which yields a reduction of 10°C in terms of heat. This does not influence the performance you are just not going to be able to oc the CPU or GPU anymore (well, maybe the GPU a bit) which is not necessary anyway.

On top of that you could always use a notebook cooler underneath your FL90.

I temps will be like they were with the 8600M GT as long as you take those measures but we can explain more detailed once you got the card. You also have to modify the heatsink a bit, but thats really no big problem.

Yeah, 200€ sounds much but in terms of € per performance increase it would be the best choice... although I'd try to get the HD4650 for €105 first or just try to bake the 8600M GT but that's no permanent solution anyway.

 

Okay. Exactly what card i can buy i will know at next week. It is depends on scholarships. If i get hight scholarship then buy HD4650. When i buy then will speak about undervolting and other ways for cooling GPU.
DH, sorry, but i dont understand this: "I'd try to get the HD4650 for €105 first or just try to bake the 8600M GT but that's no permanent solution anyway."
Can you explain, what do you mean? HD4650 is not permanent solution? Or you would try to break 8600? Or what? )))
So i wach shop ipc-computer, and there is different cards HD4650 like VG.M9606.005 VGA-Board - ATI Radeon HD 4650 and VG.M9606.006 VGA-Board and VGA693 VGA-Board and cards for difference model of Aser like Acer Aspire 6930ZG or Acer Aspire 8935 Serie... BUT all cards is same. And price is same... What differences between this cards? It is important what card i need to buy>?

 

There is the option to bake the 8600M GT, you understood right: Put the 8600M GT in the oven for about 10 - 15 mins a a certain °C and it might function again for a couple of month. After that period it will break again. So baking the 8600M GT is NO permanent solution. Buying a HD4650 IS a permanent solution.

What I meant was that I would contact the shop offering the HD4650 for 105 euro and aks them if they acutally have that card and can deliver it for that price. I think I will just do that for you, since they might reply faster in German, so I let you know when they reply.

Anyway, there should be no difference between the VG.M9606.005 and 006. This was dicussed in another thread. But if you cannot get the HD4650 for 105 euros at the German shop I suggest you buy the card from mxm-upgrade. It is cheaper as well since the card costs 195 at IPC but you have to pay an extra 13,90 to get the card to Estonia ( http://www.ipc-computer.eu/it-cm-s-Shipping.html).

With mxm-upgrade you pay 200 euro and that is everything included and the shop is trustworthy.

 

Thanks a lot Daniel for that. 105 euro instead 200 is good. Why prices might be so different? 90 euro is big discount. It is margin of IPC shop? What do you think, when they give answer?

 

I have no idea, but the actuall price for the HD4650 should be near 105 euro without making a loss. But no company that does not actually produce those cards would sell the card for this price. That's why I'm doubting the 105 euro... but we'll find out what they say soon. However, we should be prepared that they simply will not answer at all.

 

Sorry to jump in, but I have a question. What was the problem again with the HD4650 GDDR3 models? Was that the model that was only available from MSI notebooks? Or was that the 4670?

In any case, what's the status on this?

 

Compal has some notebooks with the HD 4650 GDDR3 but they don't use MXM anymore, so you cannot put that card into the FL90. It's the same with most other manufacturers. Acer uses MXM but their HD 4650 DDR3 (not GDDR3) models are all MXM 3.0. The FL90 only has MXM 2.1 II.

MSI produced HD 4670 with GDDR3 (which is considerable faster than DDR3) in MXM 2.1 II but they don't sell them.

The link you posted seems legit.

 

Ok i will prepare for buying. Now i watch image of HD4650 and see that GPU in HD4650 placed in other position. GPU is turned for 45 degrees. What about thermal pads? I need buy new thermal pad for new card?? Or no?

 

Hello there!

I`v been reading this forum for a wild and now decided to jump in.
I have FT00 with dead fVIDIA 8600M GT. I baked it in SMD reflow owen and got it work. It works 2 month and now it`s dead again. If I install any drivers I got blue screen (you know, memory dump..) and nothing I can do about it. I can only use it in basic VGA without any drivers.
As I understude from some previous posts FT00 is same configuration as (I)FL90 and hacks for IFL90 I can use on my FT00?
So it means I can upgrade my graphic to HD 3650 (DDR2 or GDDR3) without any problems? Or even to 4650.
I`m quit price sencitive and HD 3650 is pretty good to my but problem is to get it here. Are you Eugeni descided what to buy and where? Maybe we can cooperate with this issue together?

 

If any of you buys the HD4650 from MXM-Upgrade you don't need to worry about thermal pads, they come with the card. You would, however, have to buy thermal paste.

I just got an E-Mail from the shop offering the HD 4650 DDR2 for 105 € and they assured me that the price is correct. But they have to reorder the cards, they are not in stock right now which could take time and maybe they would even increase the price then... they are not bound by the price on their site.

To sum it up. Safest bet: MXM-Upgrade. Lowest price: Vilotec ( http://www.laptop-ersatzteile.de/index.php?a=201346&ref=Elmar.com)

The GPU is turned but that should not be a problem since the copper part of the heatsink is big enough to cover the chip. It's like 2cm².

 

Urmas, it may be good idea, where you live? I meen city. I decided what i will buy. It will be HD4650. Want try PayPal sysem for paying. Now i registered in PayPal.
So. First i want buy card from IPC-computers.eu. But Daniel say now that MXM-upgrate is very safe shop and they give me all what i need. I do not know, but MXM-upgrate have very strange interface. I mean not friendly. It may be not irrelevant, but i use this way for buying first time, and i worry about shipping safety, i dont know how to pay normally. In the IPC writed all. There i can pay with PayPal, there is cost of shipping writed, and how long this shipping will be, and interface is offical. But in mxm-upgrate is not writed anything. I dont find even prices. All fotos maked handly... I dont know... Vilotec in Deutsch. I dont understand this lang and cant read all what i wnat know about this shop. So what we gonna do...? Daniel maybe tell about MXM something more? Where is this shop? How they deliver card in Estonia? It is very important questions. But do not writed in the site... At least i dont find answers in site...

 

MXM-Upgrade is a Belgium shop so no problem with tax or anything since it's within the EU. But that would be the same with IPC or Vilotec whichare both situated in Germany.

However, I just realized that you are right. There is no buying option... They seem to sell the cards only for laptops which they find compatible with the cards. There is no link for the Compal FL90 and I did not find an E-Mail adress. So propably your best place to buy the card is IPC or Vilotec after all.

I would do this: Send IPC an E-Mail and ask them if they really have the HD4650 in stock. If they do, you can order there. If they do not have the card in stock and have to reorder them, I can help you ordering at Vilotec because that would be cheaper then.

Shipping fee for IPC is 13,90 to estonia so propably it's cheaper for you two to just order 2 cards and then one of you sends them to the other as inner-Estonia shipping fees should be much lower.

 

Okay if it no so problem for you, ask IPC about availability cards. And if they have in stock, i will buy. If not, will be try buy on Vilotec.

 

So the 4650 I linked to is MXM 3.0, correct? If so, then it makes sense as to why it wouldn't work. I'm considering upgrading, but I want to avoid DDR2 if at all possible. (Even though it's a big leap over the 3650 GDDR3, and an even bigger leap over our 8600s).

 

The card you linked to is MXM 2.1 vII and would therefore fit into the FL90's MXM slot. The seller also claims it is a DDR3 version, he seems trustworthy but I would make sure that it is indeed a DDR3 version. Also: DDR3 is obviously faster than DDR2 but not comparable to GDDR3.

 

Oh woops, didn't pay attention enough to see it was DDR3. Nevertheless, it still has more bandwidth than the DDR2 model, so it's an improvement. Good to hear that it is MXM 2.1, however it is over twice as much as a 3650, so I'm not sure if it's worth the premium.

Thanks for the clarification.

+Rep

 

The price for 4670 is way too much for me, specially if the computer is not used much for gaming anymore (my son is looking for girls already ).
So my choice is 3650 512 DDR2 and best option for me is then ebay.
Price is around 80$, and I have to look for Paypal and trustful seller now.

Eugeni, you can find my Skype username under the profile.

 

Urmas you can also buy 3650 from ebay. I listen that now in ebay is very expensive shiping if goods ordered from US. Something with taxing... So. will speak with skype.
Daniel, what about IPC? You send e-mail? )

 

I'm pretty sure they have the card on stock since they have an exact indication of how many cards are left unlike Vilotec which had no clear indication of how many cards they have in which case it can never hurt to ask. But with IPC it's differen, seems like we can trust their system. Yesterday they had 3 cards left, now there are 2 cards left. So if you want you can just order one card there, should not be a problem.

Thanks for the rep. You can calculate if it's worth the upgrade. The HD4650 DDR3 would be ~221 euro. It will get like 12k 3DMark06 score (the GDDR3 version would actually get more then I indicated, but it's just a rough value anyway). So that would be like 242% improvement over the 8600M GT (HD3650 GDDR3 would be +52%). Therefore with the HD4650 DDR3 you would pay 0,91 € per 1% performance increase. With the HD3650 GDDR3 you pay 2,11 € with the HD3650 DDR2 even 3,18 € per 1% performance increase.

Of course you pay more in total but in proportion to the performance you pay less.

 

Okay i buy card now from ipc-computer.

 

I presume you mean 3DMark05, correct? I believe the 3DMark06 socres are in the 6000s. I figured the 4650 would win out in price/performance, but the problem is that I'm not sure if I want to drop that much money on this laptop. It'll be another 4-5 months before I upgrade anyway, so maybe prices will go down then. Have to say though, looking at benchmarks, the 4650 does seem signifcantly faster.

 

Yeah, sorry, my bad. 3DMark05 of course... Problem is that older MXM cards tend to get more expensive in time... weird but seems true. Look at MXM-Upgrade MXM 2.1 GTX 280M is 450/500 € while MXM 3.0b HD 4870 is 330 €. Even though ATI is cheaper anyway the difference would not be that high. The price for the HD4650s has been increasing a lot as well. But I know what you mean, it's a lot of money... I wanted to upgrade to the HD4670 but then my laptop died on me... what can you do, so in the end I bought a new laptop. Even though it costed me a lot of money the performance increase is that big that it would propably even beat the update to the HD4650. Therefore unless you really can't afford a new laptop at the moment but still want to increase performance a bit or your GPU died, upgrading does not really make sense. However, it's a nice feeling to have a custom laptop ;-) I'm already planning on upgrading the GPU in my current laptop which is why I went for the GTX 260M instead of the GTX 280/285M.

 

I might be the lucky one. Our company have also business in Hong Kong and we have a representative there. I e-mailed the guy and he promised to help me with this. Anyway he told me that he already ordered the card and by the end of the month he will get it. We just have to arrange the transportation then.
Little early to yell YEEESS.. but lets wait fingers crossed.

 

Urmas
http://shop.ebay.co.uk/i.html?_kw=HD 3650&_fcid=66&_localstpos=&_sc=1&_sop=15&_stpos=&gbr=1 here you can order card. Here writed price of card with shipping price to EST. You can order by PayPal. I buy from this ebay MX-2 Now wait when card and MX-2 come to me.

 

Daniel, help. IPC emailed me after my ordering this:

So it really will be work?

 

Of course nobody can give you a guarantee. Check out this thread. It links to a Polish forum were somebody managed to get the 4670 to work in the FL90. However, there is always a risk and you have to decide if you are willing to take that risk. It would be interesting to know if Vilotec gives any kind of warranty.

I can only say that I would have tried the upgrade myself and would have been pretty much 100% sure that it would have worked. Only problem beeing heat but that can be handled by applying better thermal pads / thermal paste and undervolting the GPU and the CPU. You would need to undertake those steps with the HD3650 as well if you want to use it for gaming. With those steps the temperature should stay at 88 - 91°C which is high but acceptable.

Like I said, I would have done the upgrade, I was so damn close to getting a HD4670 when my FL90 crashed. I got it back to work, but just after I bought a new laptop - maybe if the components become cheaper I will upgrade the FL90 just for the fun of it.

That said, I still cannot guarantee you anything... there is a risk but people already installed the HD4670 and the HD3650 in the FL90. The HD4650 is a lower clocked HD4670, no other big differences, so it should work. The steps I listed above need to be done in any case.

 

Thank you Daniel for helping, respect for you. So, die is cast, no way back. I thing all will be right. Next waiting one more test ))) It is assembly of my lap ) Disassemble i can do, but assemble is more difficulty, i think. ) Main problem of all assembling is extra parts that place not found =D (when i assemble my car, there is many pats and i dont know where this pards may be placed. Wery funny.)
So, can you, give me manual, how to clear CPU out of old thermal paste? I know that static will kill CPU. And if i will rub CPU by some rag, it may create static electrical effects. It is no good for processor. So what i can use for this action? Also i want know how much thermal paste must be injected between processor and thermal pad? I buy 4g of Arctic cooling MX-2. They emailed me that goods was sent. I think paste will delivery not so long time. I buy that from UK. And say me please, undervolting doing in bios?

 

Thanks! I'm in Vienna right now and a bit busy but I'll get back to you once I have a bit more free time during the week.

 

Okay i wait

 

Now i got a card and ready to assemble my lap. But. One problem... In my old card was special places where i can conneсt termal pad by screws.
This is screen


it is screw that connect termal pad and video card



But...

In new car was only holes





And this metal frame.



I dont know, how to connect termal pad wihtout connectors, like in old card, and how to gule metal frame to card... Do you have any thingk about this?

 

Are the holes on the same place of both cards?
if so, maybe you can remove it from the old card.
Or maybe use thos copper spacers used to install a motherboard.

 

i remove from old card. lap alredy assembled. Now will be turn on computer... I hope all will be okay...

 

So first turn on goes well. Everything work. Temperature of ifle run 68 - 75. I try games later. Picture is beauty than was in nvidia. So i try some tests later, and now i happy. HD4650 really work in fl90 ) When i try all posibility of card then i write here results. Thank you for all.

 

Good news for you ,

I have 2 questions:
Where exactly did you order your card ?

How did you get the metal plate from your old card (I know it has somekind of glue on it, how did you get it of ?)

Thanks in advance and good luck

 

Great news! Did you modify the heatsink a bit? The HD3650 did not made perfect contract unless you dremmeled some of the heatsink away.

Here is what I mean:
http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/9967/06052009210.jpg
http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/8615/06052009211.jpg
http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/324/06052009214z.jpg
(Thanks to my Turkish neighbour Liberty for the pictures)

Also, depending on how skilled you are, replacing the aluminium heatsink with a copper heatsink (which you would need to manufacture yourselve) would help decrease the temperatures considerably.

Undervolting of both CPU and GPU can also be done easily and helps to keep the temps low.

Btw, you re-used the old thermal pads and applied MX-2 on both CPU and GPU, correct?

 

Jurian89
I buy card here http://www.ipc-computer.eu/
I heat the old card and remove frame. Then i take handsaw ans saw this frame. Remove the mouting screw and insert to holes of new frame. I fix mouting screws by supergule. And gasket between frame and card i take old too. I cut gasket to small pieces and connect for new fame forms. It was very strange construction, but it work.
Daniel
You terrebled me. I assemble lap at night and dont remeber all details but something with not prefect connection was. I moved heatsink and i see that he sit in gpu but dont sure that good. Before inserting mx-2 i clean CPU and copper. Dont know. I dont modify heatsink. I want sleep and dont look good. Maybe there all arigt maybe not. But work all good.
So i have some problem when all was assebled. For this card drivers only for Win 7. I install Win 7 and temperature goes down. Now Normal tem is 50 - 55. I play on Counter-Strike Source and temp up to 70. I think it is normal. But what do you think does makes sense disasseble lap and look how stay heatsink?

 

Absolutely not. Temps of 70°C's sound perfect! I expected high 80s. How do you check the temperatures anyway? Maybe you could run Furmark in max settings once just to check how high the temperatures will rise although FurMark puts more stress on the GPU than any game will ever do.

 

I install everest and this programs show GPU Temp and CPU temp. I think, maybe if there not all good heatsink may make pressure on other elements of card...

 

Finally received my 3650 today. Yesterday evening disassembled my IFT00 and took my old card and heat sink to work in case there is need to dremel the heat sink. I took away all thermal pads and begged from our IT guy for some extra thermal pads because of double qty of memory chips. I have thermal paste at home so it`s OK. I took metal frame from old card - it`s fixed to card with double sided glue tape - and glue on tape was good enough after removing to use it again. Now I putted heat sink to card and inspected it. Heat sink is sitting nicely on GPU and little gaps between memory chips and heat sink. This is normal, because thermal pads will be putted there. No need to dremel heat sink because this heat sink seems to be made for both cards I think. No problems with this big angular component on the PCB. BTW, it seems to be some 1 ohm power resistor chip what causes the need of dremeling in some cases.
So I will assemble my laptop tomorrow and pray to get it work.
It`s our company bowling championship tonight and I hope my hands are not too shake tomorrow

 

Good luck with the assembly tomorrow, you did great so far, I'm sure it will work!

 

Morning, or is it.... what ever.
Anybody ever meets behavior like this: I can see with new card picture in the screen for 15-20 sec and that`s it. Nothing after that whatever I boot- Win or from CD whatever. I swich it off and on again - 15 sec boot screen and then blank.
Very strange - anybody..?????

 

Looks like your video card is overheating and shutdown to avoid further damage.

 

SuperKoe may be right.

You did not install the card without any thermal pads between memory and heatsink, correct? At first I also thought the heatsink would fit the HD3650 without the need to modify it, but when I started the laptop for the first time, the card was way too hot.

 

So you think it can be overheated within 15 sek?

 

The boot clocks are the same as the high performance clocks and if there is no direct connection between heatsink and GPU or memory and heatsink it could happen. But it is more likely that the error lies somewhere else. However, this is easy to find out. Go into bios and wait for a couple of minutes.

Also: Can describe once again in detail what happens exactly?