ThinkPad T61 and R61 First Thoughts Review

What I want to know is what is this "added cooling device"... and all the improvements Lenovo has made for making it the "coolest" and "quietest" yet. Those vents dont look that much different than whats on my T60... unless perhaps the fan is bigger? I honestly dont understand.

 

Theres just more internal vents and the existing ones have been enlarged, it looks like. Its the quietest because the fans need to run less often. The cooling device seems to be a system of interlocked heatsinks to enhance the cooling capacity and reduce the CPU temps.

 

Well thats the thing I dont get though - the T60 also has two heatsinks as well. I can understand that the added vents and the *slightly* larger existing vents can improve, but they really should add figures or something... i mean all those vents can have a 1 degree improvement... nothing to be excited about. I want details!

Oh, and also I think its kind of dumb to put that firewire port right in the front...

 

I hate just one thing - nvidia is again messing with their products and product numbering. why they can't make say 3-4 different chips from low to high end? why make so many - we currently already have these: (and more are comming in Q3-Q4)

8600M GT, 8600M GS, 8400M G, 8400M GT, 8400M GS, NVS 510M,
NVS 320M, NVS 300M, NVS 140M, NVS 135M, NVS 130M, NVS 120M,
NVS 110M, FX 3500M, FX 2500M, FX 1600M, FX 1500M, FX 570M,
FX 360M, FX 350M...

not to mention integrated parts. damn. can anybody tell me which of NVS series are DX10? somehow I doubt, that NVS 140M, used in T61, is DX10.

 

The NVS 140m is based on the G86 chip architecture, and yes, it is DX10. It's most likely the same chip as the 8400m, but with business optimized drivers (and perhaps lower clocks).

Quadro NVS 320M, Quadro NVS 140M, Quadro NVS 135M, and Quadro NVS 130M are all DX10 parts, as far as I know.

 

Ouch! From the Anandtech review.

and regarding Intel Turbo Memory (which their tests showed to have next to no improvement and in some cases SLOWED things down):

Like they say in their conclusion -- if you're looking for a new laptop anyway and the prices are the same between a SR laptop and one without, you may as well. But ultimately there seems to be little if any improvement.

What a disappointment.

 

you have to remember whenever they come out with a new stuff the drivers are usually a big issue. Older drivers they've had a while to perfect while the new ones they are working on at the moment aren't perfect. it was the same thing when DDR2 first came out, there was little to know improvement in performance when compared to DDR but eventually it has surpassed DDR.

 

I don't think drivers are an issue when it comes to new chipsets, but it could be. Sure, drivers could be to blame for poor X3100 performance or bad performance from the 4965 wireless card, but the processor should still perform the same. I think the bigger picture is that it still uses the same processor (Merom), just with a new socket and higher FSB, which will maybe give about a 5% increase in performance. I don't know why Turbo Memory is having issues though.

 

I am new to Lenovo/Thinkpad. Does it come with glossy screen or non-glossy screen? What is the advantage/disadvantage of glossy screen and non-glossy. I am deciding between HP 6500,2500 and T61, any suggestion? Thank you .

 

I beleive Thinkpads are Matte (non-glossy), please correct if wrong. Advantage of Matte is less glare.


Question about this 800Mhz bus. It is my understanding that the FSB for the processer must run at the same speed as the memory. If that is true, then what benefit is there in increasing to 800Mhz FSB unless the memory is capable of 800Hmz? Right now only 667Mhz ram is available for notebooks, so it seems like a pointless upgrade in the short term, with potential performance gain when 800Mhz ram is available for notebooks. Am I wrong?

If this is the case, then I really see little reason to buy a Santa Rosa laptop. It seems like it will be a little better with power consumption, have a Turbo card (which sounds like isn't doing much), and 11N which was already available on non-Santa Rosa systems. I am glad that the cost of the platform is on par with what you get (not much more). Still I find I will probably be waiting for a Santa Rosa 15.4" laptop with a halfway-decent gaming card (570M?).

 

I'll quote myself again from a previous thread:

Basically, you get faster wireless, slightly faster CPU performance, Turbo Memory (which may or may not give much of a performance boost) and some power saving features. It's not a big jump (you'll have to wait for Penryn for that) but definitely a decent incremental upgrade.

 

Thanks for clarifying. Seems like the power saving is the biggest feature for me, plus other upgrades that come with the laptop like 8M GPU and other features that simply come with time.

 

Which Lenovo wireless mini-card is better?

1. Intel Wireless WiFi Link 4965AGN

2. Thinkpad 11a/b/g/n Wireless LAN Mini-PCI Expresser Adapter

 

Good question, I wondered the same thing. I would probably get the Intel if I were to buy one with absolutely no re-enforcing reason.

 

I'd imagine the Thinkpad branded one is probably a Broadcom chipset. It seems like that's what most OEM branded draft-n cards are based on.

 

The Thinkpad 11a/b/g/n Wireless LAN Mini-PCI is an Atheros AR5008.

http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/ThinkPad_11a/b/g/n_Wireless_LAN_Mini_Express_Adapter

 

Which one gets better reception of a weak signal and is less likely to lose a weak signal?

Thank you for your help.

 

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,2127468,00.asp

 

If you're planning on running Linux, the Intel card is almost certainly the better choice. Intel's past support of the ipw2100, ipw2200, and ipw3945 suggest strongly that a driver for the ipw4965 will be showing up before long.

By contrast, the ThinkPad/Lenovo-branded card reportedly only works through the NDIS wrapper hack.

Schwab

 

Nice to see T61s are finally out.

 

4, 6 and 7-cells batteries now???

How is this working now.

Did they redesign the whole power supply for them and now all of cells are connected in parallel for a battery with 3.6V nominal. Otherwise I cannot explain how this is going to work.
Keep in mind this - maybe they did something very, very different.

Usually when you have a choice of 3, 6 an 9 cells - every three cells are connected in series (gives you 10.8V nominal voltage).

This may be the reason for Lenovo to claim that these are the strongest, COOLEST and quietest laptops, but how it will affect the battery life - it will be a different story that will need more investigation.

 

I've another question on batteries.

A number of pictures of the thinkpad showed the battery sticking out of the back. Can anyone verify which cell batteries will stick out, and which ones won't?

 

Will they release model with higher resolution such as WXUGA?

 

6 and 7 stick out, 4 does not.

Yes, they will release widescreen.

 

wll quadro NVS 140m is total crap,... if you want to play games on it, don't buy it,.

 

I agree that Thinkpad has never been game's notebook (an Asus A8Js or G1 or Dell 9400 are better gamers options)
But IMHOQuadroNVS140 is not "total crap". . In PCmag review get much better benchmark than X1300 or X1400. And in 14" how many notebooks (apart from Asus A8J and Zepto) have better graphics card than GF7400 or ATI X1400?

 

Yes, plus with the T61p having a quadro 570M, I think gaming on a thinkpad will be much better than it was in the past.

 

i can't wait to ditch my tank-like fujitsu n3530 for one of these babies. great for taking around college.

 

3DMark 06 seems to show ~1900 so even assuming the GeForce 8's slight advantage in 3DMark versus performance in games, I'd say it'll still be quite a decent card, for a 14.1" laptop. I don't think Lenovo's marketing these laptops to gamers anyways.

 

The T61 is number one on my current list of imminent purchases and I have been looking all over to get info of it. I found a slew of bad reviews at this site and would like someone with experience to comment about the Lenovo Thinkpads. I believe this site allows anonymous replies but not sure. Thanks.

http://www.engadget.com/2007/04/24/lenovos-thinkpad-t61-and-r61-santa-rosa-tops-leaked-due-in-may/

 

How's the R series and T series different if they're only .2" different in thickness, .2 lb. different in weight, fitted with the same type of chassis (roll cages, etc.), and the only missing feature in the R is WWAN?

 

It's possible there are other differences as well. The T4x and R5x have always used similar components and even shared mainboards, but the T series could run longer on batteries, but run hotter. The weight could be "starting weight" too. Systems that come with faster CPU's or discrete graphics have different heat sinks that weight more, and the R series use Ultrabay Enhanced devices that also weigh more.

EDIT: Hmm, I just noticed the leaked R61 image is likely the 15" model, so there are even less differences between the two series.

 

Yeah, there doesn't seem to be too many differences between the two models (Lenovo has been especially vocal in touting how close the R61's become to the T61) but on the other hand, pricing's not dissimilar either. From what I can tell, the R61 and T61 are about $100 off in price for the same configuration.

Actually in Canada, the T61 is cheaper than the R61 (mostly because Lenovo Canada only offers pre-configured models and it just so happened that there's a really nice deal on a couple of the T61 configs.)

 

Question about the info from this site:
http://www-306.ibm.com/common/ssi/O...&paneltext=Announcement+letter+search#@2h@78@

What exactly are machine types 6480 and 6481?

 

I fell in love with IBM ThinkPads several years ago. To me, the epitome of power and class was embodied solely in the T43p - unfortunately, I was never in any position to buy any ThinkPad until this year.

Unfortunately for me, I want to buy right when they start changing everything. I've spent two weeks on a quest for a 14.1" SXGA+ T60p that someone may have in stock, but the news here is promising.

So I'd like some opinions:

1) Will the T61p 14.1" SXGA+ (NOT widescreen) have the same chassis design as the T60p 14.1" SXGA+? Apart from the internal differences and ports, etc - they haven't rounded anything? I hate rounded edges!

2) The review mentions that the IBM logo will be available - and since this is extremely important to me from a sentimental perspective - has this been confirmed? I noticed that someone else also asked this question and was told that it wouldn't be... but then where was the review information from?

3) I haven't done much research on the nVidia line (traditional ATI fanboy), but now that AMD has ATI I think it's time I change my ways too. Maybe. The Quadro FX 570, do we know if it's in the same class as the FireGL V5250 was?

4) Should I keep trying to source a boxed T60p (14.1" 4:3) while it's more likely that they're around or should I wait for the T61p? Or should I start collecting T43s?

This is less of a performance / latest-technology-fad-obsession than it is a ThinkPad obsession. As a child I dreamt of a top of the line ThinkPad - such as the T43p, so in some respects just having that will bring more of a smile to my dial than the latest T61 (with a crappy widescreen that doesn't look ThinkPadish and rounded curves and a Lenovo logo)...

I know it seems superficial, but such irrationality can also be found when one looks at a car - would you buy the most powerful engine even if they had bastardised the design from the last series?

 

Quadro NVS 140 has simmilar bechmark to FireGL V5250, so Quadro FX 570 shuld be better

 

I think the T61P should be WSXGA+. I would pay over $2,000 for that.

 

You can buy those IBM stickers from ebay. Last time I checked it was $2.60 per sticker plus shipping and handling.

 

So has anyone actually done a worthwhile review yet?

 

I think Andrew here has a model and will be doing an indepth review of it shortly.

 

furrycute, there is a BIG BIG BIG difference between a proper IBM logo imprinted on the chasis and simply pasting cheap stickers on it.

 

QFT - does all this talk mean that getting one with the logo is improbable? GUYS? GUYS?!?!

/me cries like a little child.

I'm wondering if I should go for that T60p they have in stock over there - it's a bit of import though, as I'd have to import from a retailer I've had no dealins with. More info! We need more info!

 

I'd like to upgrade the battery life without changing the size of the laptop...

Do any of the upgraded batteries for the T61 jut out from the standard laptop dimensions like the Dell battery does?

 

Yes, the 6 and 7 cell batterys stick out the back.

 

I prefer batteries that extend from the front. It is not a large advantage, but it is nice to rest my hands.

 

From what I can tell, selection this option gets rid of the ExpressCard slot? That seems like a pretty big sacrifice.

How? I don't see this option when checking out.

Heard it wouldn't be available until mid-June. First HP with delaying discrete graphics for a month, now Lenovo with the webcam.

 

Here is a link I found to a University that has listed the T61P for sale:

http://www.clarkson.edu/oit/computerstore/files/ClarksonLaptopProgram2007.pdf

 

I just attempted to configure both a T61 and R61 with the same specs, and came up with the same exact price of $1500. I really can't discern a difference between the two models based on my configuration, aside from the aforementioned slight size/weight difference. Does the T61 include the Think Light while the R61 does not?

I would say that $1500 for my configuration is a pretty excellent price for a ThinkPad. The only additions I would potentially make would be the Intel Wireless WiFi Link 4965AGN card and the 3 yr Depot warranty for +$119. Quick question here: The ThinkPad draft-N card is a Mini-PCI Express Adapter. Does this mean it fills the PCMCIA slot or is it a chipset on the motherboard like the Intel variety?

Last question. When the T61P (15.4" widescreen) becomes available, and a similar mid-range GPU to the Quadro NVS 140M is an option, any idea if we can expect a similar price to the current 14.1" T61?

 

I expect the cost to be a little bit more for it to include the better GPU, and a little bit less because it is a 15.4" widescreen making more room to fit small parts in. For example, a T60p 15.4" costs less than a T60P 14", both with exact same specs. I still think the T61P will be more than a T61 though due to better GPU, but not a lot more (at least I hope!).

 

http://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/...-category-id=19C791A03AF24034A0011B825513BCED

Just compare prices between all the T60 and T60p models on Lenovo's site at base pricing:

T60 15" $1,108.50
T60 15.4" Widescreen 1,082.25

T60P 15.4" Widescreen $1,363.50

I'm guessing the base price increase for the T61p will be at least $200, maybe $250, than the T61 (regardless of monitor size difference) if it follows current trends.

I believe all ThinkPad line notebooks include the ThinkLight.

PCMCIA is not the same as Mini-PCI Express.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI_Express_Mini_Card