Lenovo ThinkPad T410 Review Discussion

The ThinkPad T410 is the latest revision of the popular T-series ThinkPad from Lenovo. This model brings a new line of dedicated and integrated graphics cards, the Intel Core-series processor line, and a completely redesigned chassis. We took an in-depth look at the highly anticipated T410 to see how well it stacks up against all the prior T-series ThinkPads. Does it live up to our expectations? Read on to find out.

Read the full content of this Article: Lenovo ThinkPad T410 Review

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Whoa.

Very nice!

I am curious though ... it looks like they changed the shape of the batteries again. Can a battery from a T400 fit in a T410?

 

What was your subjective impression? Our ears are not flat and we are much more sensitive to high pitches. The A-weighting scale tries to account for this, but is merely an approximation. I would trust your ears in this case...despite measuring lower sound levels, how did it compare subjectively?

 

Oh this was all ears with the sound. Compared to my T60 it is quieter but the higher pitched sound is more annoying to my ears. You can also pick it out at a greater distance above background noise.

 

Is the fan noise always high-frequency, or only when the fan is in high speeds?

 

As I suspected, the replacement of magnesium alloy with plastic results in a weaker machine!

 

This is minor, but the on-board graphics is a GMA 5700MHD. The 4500 is the last generation which is half as fast.

edit: Great review, by the way.

 

Nice review. Now we just need one or the T410s!

 

Great review, thanks!

Anyone got a chance to look at the displays of both the T410 as well as the HP 8440w? I wonder which of those two has the better LCD...

Just by looking at today's review of the T410 and the recent review of the 8440w, it seems NBR is more enthusiastic about the screen of the latter.

 

No, it won't. 6-cell is flush in T410, while in T400 it's not. More empty space inside T410 because of the redesign.

Consult tabook.pdf http://www.lenovo.com/psref/pdf/tabook.pdf The batteries for T400 and T410 have different part numbers.

 

I will be posting some internal shots this weekend. The roll-cage is still alive and kicking inside the T410. The screen change came from the removal of that alloy structure with a thicker plastic cover. The main portion of the notebook is still very solid.

 

Ah shucks, I just bought a Thinkpad T61 a few days ago! Nice review on the Thinkpad T410, bit concerned on the few losses of build strength in some areas though I can't really judge until I actually have one in my hand.

Does the Thinkpad T410 come with an ATI discreet graphics options instead of the NVIDIA Quadro option?

 

Well, considering that there is no GMA 5700MHD, and only the "Intel GMA HD Graphics" built into the Arrandale Chips, your half right.

Nope, Intel or nVidia only.

 

What is the config. of the T400 that the T410's are compared to in the benchmark?

 

* Screen: 14.1-inch WXGA (1280 x 800) High Brightness LED Backlit (678 nit, Matte finish)
* Operating System: Windows Vista Business (32bit, SP1)
* Processor: Intel Core 2 Duo P8600 (2.4GHz, 1066MHz FSB, 3MB Cache)
* Memory: 3GB DDR3 RAM
* Storage: 160GB Hitachi HDD (7200rpm)
* Optical Drive: DVD+/-RW
* Wireless: Intel 5100 802.11AGN, Bluetooth 2.0
* Graphics: Intel X4500 Integrated Graphics
* Power: 56Wh 6-cell, 90W 20V AC adapter
* Dimensions: 13.2" x 9.4" x 1.47/1.12"
* Weight: 5lbs 7.6oz with 6-cell, 4lbs 11.8oz without battery, 6lbs 5.3oz travel weight
* Retail Price: $1,734

 

Great review Kevin.
One thing, compared to the T400, how much bigger is this one? Is it slimmer?

 

I thought as much ... thank you for the link!

 

It's nearly the same dimensions (also uses 16:10 screens), but it's slightly thicker I believe (mostly from the increased port number, which doesn't allow for as much of a wedge shape).

Wow, the 94 Wh in the 9-cell is quite impressive - haven't seen any other 9-cell batteries that can hold as much charge.

I thought the "owl fan blades" were in the T400 as well? That seemed to be what the designers said on their blog.

Pretty nice machine overall, I'm disappointed that the switchable graphics didn't carry over from the T400, but it's still quite impressive that you can get more than 7 hours from the discrete graphics model.

 

That's really surprising to me that they dropped switchable graphics. That was one of the things that really separated the '09 ThinkPads from the '09 Latitudes in my mind.

 

It's possibly an Intel chipset problem.

 

In all fairness, Lenovo appears to be the one referring to the integrated graphics as "GMA 5700MHD" in the configuration screen for the T410- LINK

Notebookcheck also shows it as " Intel Graphics Media Accelerator HD Graphics, Intel HD Graphics or GMA HD (or GMA 5700MHD)" ( LINK)

So there are a few sources spreading the confusion. But you are correct, Intel has never used the '5700' designation for this (or any) graphics chip.

Perhaps they should have called it the 5500MHD or 5700MHD rather than simply "GMA HD"??? The next revision will probably be named something very clever like, much like the "Intel Extreme Graphics 2" that preceded the original GMA 900.....

 

Well, I was going by both the tabook and intel's spec sheets.

 

Is the lid composite of Fiber Carbon and ABS or just pure ABS? Because that would be a disappointment.
I wish they would done the lid like the old T60.

 

The PM55 chipset doesn't support switchable graphics. Kevin, do you have a CPU-Z shot of the chipset? If it's HM/QM55/57 then there is a chance via BIOS update of support, else you're SOL.

 

iirc it's a qm57

 

That's excellent news. Then I wouldn't doubt that the laptop will have switchable graphics eventually.

 

Tabook says the T410 has a 2.5" HDD, can anyone confirm that?

 

Lenovo is clearly cheaping out with every new generation of ThinkPads now. The T4x series had a full magnesium cover, T6x/T400 had what was essentially an incomplete magnesium cover covered with plastic and now the T410 is entirely plastic. That's not good.

I don't recall reading about what the bottom of the laptop is made of now. The TP's before were full, thick magnesium bottoms. So now has the bottom been reduced to a magnesium skeleton with plastic covering it? If so, that's REALLY not good.

 

Yes, it's a 2.5" drive. The only Thinkpads that use 1.8" drives are the X301 and T400s (and presumably the T410s).

And how much did the T4x machines cost? How much does the T410 cost? The era of $3000+ laptops is over, for the vast majority of people. Heck, if the price didn't drop, I wouldn't be typing this up on a Thinkpad right now.

I can't speak for the T410 as I have never handled one, but the T400 can actually hold more weight piled on top of it without damage than either the T4x generation Thinkpads or the T60.

 

Kevin O´Brien:
Can you tell me which display belongs to which model on the pictures of the screens in your review? thanks

 

Yea, price is a very good point you make. There was a huge drop between the T4x series and the T61 series, which is why I found myself an owner of the latter a couple years ago. But there hasn't been enough a price drop between the T61 to the T410 to justify the increasing presence of plastic.

And even that being said, you act like the $3000 was merely because of the extra magnesium alloy used in the laptop. I doubt anyone here would disagree that that had more to do with the fact that laptop hardware was simply more expensive back then, and there was a larger gap in performance between what IBM offered and what the mainstream brands offered, justifying the cost.

If anything, it seems like Lenovo is trying to cut costs on the normal T series and position what a true T series successor should be, at least quality-wise, as a "premium" T series (ie. T4xxs). The T410s still retains the same high quality materials and is thinner, which is what laptops should be aiming towards. The T410s is the worthy successor, not the T410.

 

Just as you wouldn't have a Civic engine inside a Ferrari, cost reduction means cuts in all areas.

While you might want be willing to pay extra for the extra mag alloy someone else might be willing to pay extra for say the display or keyboard or some other component. If Lenovo were to update evething pretty soon the cost would double.

Lenovo is probably following consumer wish. People are now willing to pay extra for thinner machines. So they also have T410s which supposedly has the same build strength in a thinner chassis and not T420 with a stronger chassis.

 

You are overlooking a few key aspects. The older models didn't actually hold up that well over time. Andrew's T43 destroyed its motherboard from too much flex at the palmrest and would have intermittent PATA connection troubles.

The T60 solved that... and each model there after has become more rigid. Plastic ain't such a bad thing when it has the support it needs

Also another area most of you are overlooking with the plastic screen covers. As more models turn to various forms of wireless connections you need to realize that the older method of slapping an external antenna on won't work. Full alloy lids make for poor wireless reception. To overcome this Lenovo had to attach external antennas for WWAN and make plastic cutouts for the Wi-Fi antenna patches. Going to an all plastic lid allows them to get better wireless performance without any chance of shielding from a metal lid.

 

the nvidia gpu scores nearly the same as the geforce 8600m gt. Quite nice for a gpu. The price is a bit on the expensive side though.

 

Kevin - Can you confirm that Lenovo removed the Charge Threshold feature in Power Manager of the new Thinkpads? If so, this (to me) is a serious CON and should be put as such.

 

About battery life - so does it mean that with 9 cell and integrated graphics one could get 8-9 hours of battery life with real world usage or not?
And about screen cover and its flex/ripples - how is it compared to SL510? Less or more, the same?

 

Excellent review! One would hope with reviews like this and customer feedback Lenovo would figure out that people who buy ThinkPads don't care (much) about weight, and like the dull, businesslike style. I think anyone buying a ThinkPad expects its survival capability to be just ever so slightly under "rugged" notebooks.

 

It's a nice review, I'll admit.

One thing that needs to be stressed out in my opinion is the screen quality. If it 'changed very little compared to the T400' how the heck are the color reproduction and contrast above average? The T400's panel is bottom-of-the-barrel in my opinion (and yes, I'm typing this on one). The screen quality is dreadful and yet every professional review I've read for a ThinkPad in the last few years gives them the thumbs up. What gives?

 

Comparing the screen pictures from this review, to the updated T400 review, the T400 seems to look much better in terms of LCD quality and viewing angles.

 

Just curious, is that an objective statement? Or just your opinion? I am eager to see any numbers publicly available on the strength of the top.

 

I really don't buy the argument about the lid previously being an issue with signal interference. There are many other brands of computers out there with magnesium lids that don't have this problem, and seeing how you review most computers for this site, I'm surprised you subscribe to Lenovo's argument with this one. Acer Timelines have magnesium lids, HP dm3's have magnesium lids, Macbook Pros have magnesium lids, and so on. I am NOT saying those computers have overall better build quality or anything like that, but they can have perfectly acceptable wi-fi performance with magnesium lids. The "super elastic polycarbonate" on the T6x and T400 was quite possibly the worst, cheapest material they could've used. Now, they've removed all trace of magnesium from the lid, and we're now just stuck with think plastic. Still think they only use plastic for the wireless reception?

I just don't see any legitimate reason, other than cost-cutting, for Lenovo to make the entire bottom half of the ThinkPad plastic now. There is no way that that makes the computer any stronger. If you look at the T61, which already has the roll cage improvement, the bottom half of the chassis is VERY strong because it is fully magnesium alloy and thick. To change this into a plastic cover with a patchwork shell of magnesium under is a downgrade, hands down.

I'm not one of those IBM-homers who think Lenovo screwed up the ThinkPad brand. I do like the roll-cage and believe that they did as good as job as they could to lower the price but maintain quality - in the T61. I just think their newest changes don't fit into that philosophy.

 

I can't speak for Acer and HP dm3 but the Macbook Pro has OK wireless reception from my perspective.

 

It all comes back to the lid acting as a Faraday cage. You mention "perfectly acceptable" wireless performance but you also need to understand that most consumer notebooks dont hold a candle to business notebooks when it comes to radio design. You see form over function with compromises leaning towards good looks, not performance. The same could be said about cooling systems and keyboards.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...acbook+wireless+reception+metal&aq=f&aqi=&oq=

My T60 has an entirely metal lid and border except where the wireless antenna patches are. In those spots the metal is cut out and you have a plastic strip so the metal doesnt interfere with the wireless signal. You can see the same principle applied to the back of any iphone or ipod touch, where the antenna gets it own plastic panel on the otherwise all metal back cover.

For a laugh you might want to check this forum post out:

http://forums.macrumors.com/archive/index.php/t...</index.php/t-597843.html

Most notebooks go for metal lids for style or strength with some compromises in wireless reception. The T60 I have did it for strength, then they switched to plastic covering metal, then they switched the entirely plastic. Out of all those stages I firmly believe the plastic covering metal was the strongest of them all. The change between the T400 to T410 was probably for cost but I still couldn't say that it is weaker in the event of a fall or accidentally stepping on it.

Since we are going down this road... would you guys feel better about the T410 if I dissected the top half of the notebook and showed its internal construction?

 

Are you allowed to do that with notebooks you get for review?

But sure, I would like to know how it looks like!

 

Never stopped me before. I think most places dont mind (or even know) since I am surgical with my laptop repair skills.

 

Waiting for those gut shots

 

I really appreciate your review of the T410 as well as your wisdom regarding the build quality. I was having much trouble choosing between the T410 and the Sager NP7652. A few days before your review, I decided that ultimately the Thinkpad would make be the better choice due to the keyboard. your analysis of the notebook has really been comforting. Like some others, the only concern I have now is the high pitch of the fan.

I tend to use CPU-intense applications a lot, so I will have to get used to this. Hopefully it just becomes something that I learn to love...like the airplanes that fly a few hundred feet over my apartment every so often...

This is perhaps a silly question, but does Lenovo generally use good thermal pads/gels/metals? Would it ever be worth it to put on some Arctic Silver 5?

Thanks much,
Ryan

 

Hi sgogeta4! So you have hopes that there will be some bios update which would eventually enable the switchable graphics mode?! What is it exactly that makes you think that?!
Kind Regards,
hUmanns

 

Are we getting a review of the W510 with the 95% gamut LCD? It be interesting to see some pics of that next your FlexView. Nice job on the review.

 

Kevin O´Brien:
Can you tell me which display belongs to which model on the pictures of the screens in your review? thanks