Guest Editorial: Apple "MehBooks" and the Future of Macs

Nah. I need to use an "ugly" PC so as to offset my handsomeness. If I got a "sexy" Mac...well then, that wouldn't be fair to you guys, would it?

 

This thread is not going to change anything-nor apple will lower prices,nor people,who decided to buy a mac,will change their mind.

Conclusion-8 pages(I have 50 posts in 1 page) of "Mac sucks/is not good/overpriced/etc." and "no,they are good/well priced/go enjoy your crap PC/etc "

same arguments over and over again...

 

Yeah, even the guys with big cash doesn't prefer Apple laptops anymore

Let's go down with the sells, Apple, let's go straight down..! Feel the economic crisys and mostly your(most of them not any more) buyer's new choices cause of huge dissapointment.

 

Of course, you don't know that. Likely it will even if it's just one person. Mac ownership is not a religion nor a political affiliation. But even those things can change with dialogue.

That's a short term understanding of the company which does not take into account economics. Fact is, they have in the past when economic conditions warranted it. Should we find ourselves in a protracted global economic recession, Apple will change their business dynamic in order to survive. Even Daimler Benz had to adjust a few times in history by offering "budget" models in order to spur sales. Porsche also expanded their line offering more affordable models. Well since people seem to like using auto analogies when trying to decipher the Apple mystique.

Their pocketbook will determine that as well as a spouse or friends or family. Let alone their conscious. As with any purchase, we all have internal and external justifications for it. Someone reading this thread may indeed re-evalute their decision or the decision of someone else.

Yes, in part the less articulate and more fanboish on either side did devolve it into that at a few junctures. So your prediction was right. But there were also many well thought out and rational posts which properly weighed the pros and cons. Good thing the thread wasn't closed so early when you requested it to be.

And not for nothing, there is someone on this forum asking me for my opinion on Pystar's latest Apple clones and what I think is the relative value of them. (I would instantly recommend Apple over Pystar all things considered in total cost of ownership and detail why). So there are people looking for rational discourse to assist them in their buying decisions. Not everyone falls prey to advertising hype or is prone to fanboism. Some people do consider the economics of their purchases relative to their needs.

 

i'll have to add a little comment bout the im mac vs im pc
such advertisement looks like those apple guys brainwashed those who dont know a lot about computers....
even those company from china is much better on advertisement as the didnt judge competitor products like what apple does...instead of showing how good their products are

just question , are those apple guys out of words to tell whats the advantage of buying mac in less than a minute commercial?

 

I understand that thx,

How long is that crisis going?almost a year?so why are apple's sales growing ?

I haven't yet read any comment saying that "After I read tis thread,I decided not to go with Apple" I understand that lots of people don't post,buh...Hell,even the title of this thread is a "turn-off"

I didn't requested...I said "I think it should be closed or moved from homepage"

Also,btw,everyone I know in US live the same way as they lived before crisis-they buy cars,go to restaurants etc. yes,they whine a lot,but their living "style" is the same.

 

Despite my liking of Apple's computers, I have to agree with you on that part; Get a Mac advertisments? Psh, get a life Apple; insulting a PC won't get you nowhere, it will only make the brainwashed people look inexperienced when it comes to computers to the more computer experienced people.

Nevertheless, I don't believe this thread will really stop me from buying a new MacBook Pro.

 

Some don't. Hence the ardent defense of MACs without consideration to the merits of the thread and some of the erudite posts.

Read a bit of business news. The recession has only begun. The credit crisis is the catalyst.

Some of the posts in here suggest that this thread title isn't a turn off. So perhaps you might want to temper your statement with the phrase "to some."

And as you know, not everyone posts that they are making a decision to buy a certain computer based on a post pr a review. But later we do find that they did make a decision by weighing comments and reviews on this site. Some in this thread already attested to that in their defense of NBR's choice of posting this on the front page.

Not to nitpick, but you've made a lot of bold and unsubstantiated claims.

Here is what you said:

That's a request. You can find the original post on page 1 or 2 depending on how many posts per page you display.

As I said, we have just entered a recession. But you take a very narrowmined view of things. There are people suffering in the US because of the credit crisis already. It will get worse as the ramifications of the credit crisis spread worldwide. And the degree in which it protracts will be based on the next administration's fiscal, tax and monetary policy. We could potentiatlly enter a period of stagflation. That will critically hurt the tech industry. Many tech companies have already reported slowing sales forecasts for the fourth quarter and have scaled back production in anticipation of a global slowdown next year. ODMs report declining orders from OEMs with further declines forecast through 2009. Investors have beaten down Apple's stock (down ~45% from summer highs) in anticiaption of lower sales and/or lower margins going forward. Analyst have come out and gave negative guidance on Apple's computer segment but predict decent growth of the iphone through 2009.

 

Well said. It really is a shame that Apple has resorted to this sort of advertising campaign. What's more, they blatantly misrepresent Vista.

They have a number of benefits they could highlight that consumers would still find highly attractive over a PC loaded with Vista. They could even choose infomercial format to highlight the relative ease of use and innovative features. They should advertise the MAC like they advertize the iPhone.

 

I have to agree with lewdvig's post; it was very practical and down to earth. The fact is that Apple is charging far too much money and offering a mediocre product in exchange.

I don't understand how an unpleasant thread title has any significance on its truth. The OP made a claim and offered some very good reasons and evidence to back up that claim. Suddenly people begin crying foul, that this is a Mac flaming thread? Wouldn't you agree that Mac flaming threads usually consist of distasteful, unjustified attacks on Apple, contrary to what the OP has done? I would say that this thread offers some very valid criticism because it is the reason why I don't own a Mac; the prices are too f*cking expensive.

This attests to how financially irresponsible (and downright stupid) people are. The numbers on the stock market exchange speak for themselves, as does all the home foreclosures, job losses, and expert advice from every financial sector. The fact is that the economy is going down, and how your friends live offers no insight into America's problem - it also does nothing to the claims that the OP makes.

 

I actually encourage those who buy Macs to continue doing so. As far as I'm concerned, you guys are far better at driving the economy than I am. Sorry for being a poor college student. Sorry for not having enough disposable income where I can just toss an extra few hundred dollars on looks and brand. I apologize for not being cool enough to attend The Church of Jobs (just pokin' a little fun at you guys )

I'll reiterate my point about this article. The OP was talking about value. Are the NEW Macbooks good value? No. Are the old Macbooks good value? They are at least competitive.

Earlier, some silly person seemed to have misunderstood my first post since they thought that I was bashing Macs. No, I'm just bashing the new Mac for not improving much but costing a lot more money. Do PC companies do this too? YES. The Sony TT vs. TZ is a perfect example. You pay $1000 more for a slightly better product. I'm all for good looking products and "premium" products. I just don't like spending massive $$$ for those things.

At the end of the day what do I advocate? Being a responsible spender and trying to get the most of your money. If you've got so much money that Benjamins are flying out the window of your Bentley as you cruise down the highway, why not donate some to charity or the Red Cross?

 

I agree.

Your EEE PC is sexy.

But seriously... Why are you tarnishing it right next to that heap of wadded money? You could have bought something way nicer.

 

Does anyone know who actually builds this new MacBook? Here's a post from 2006 on the "then" MacBook contract manufacturers:

Apple is on the hunt for an additional factory to build MacBooks, and it looks like Foxconn Electronics - the same company that builds some iPod models - is on the short list. According to DigiTimes, Apple plans to contract Foxconn to produce a 15-inch version of the MacBook. If so, that will significantly blur the line between its pro and consumer portable Mac products.

Right now, Asustek is Apple's MacBook manufacturer, and Quanta Computer builds the MacBook Pro.

Practically everyone in the industry uses contract manufacturing, even some of the earlier lower-priced ThinkPads were manufactured by Acer.

 

Have you been on the Dell forum thread for the M1330 laptop delays? That one exploded just as fast as this one! I only look at the last page now-a-days for threads like these.

 

Oompa loompas in China. Jobs' real name is Willy Wonka.

 

Wow. Read through a bit of the thread and most people are complaining about the cost. Dunno why people here are b*****n about Apple but for myself, it's been worth the price. Having relatives not call me anymore to check why their they can't view email or why they have to install different software in order to use their new camera is a godsend.

Obviously people here are very computer savvy and can troubleshoot their computers to make it work properly. But there are still a good number who don't. Those buying macs are people who want to avoid that. Sure, there are software that can replicate what stuff a mac can do (I know, I used some before). But that will also add to the overall cost.

I have to second Lysander in saying that the OP is sort of a troll. Has he even used a mac? Not just for a day or two, but for a good few weeks at the very least. Comparing specs isn't a real representation of the true value of a computer. Every year we get better specs anyway. And yes, I am questioning the credibility of the OP here. Also I don't even know why NBR posted this on the home page. I've been going here before and this is the first time I've seen something like this. Grammar aside, it seems to be a very one sided view on macs without any actual review on usage.

 

Excerpt from the editorial (near the end of the 3rd paragraph):
"I base this on ownership of about five different aluminum and six plastic Apple notebooks since 2000."

That's how things are supposed to work. If we didn't the tech sector would be in trouble. Not all companies charge you hundreds of dollars more for better specs.

An editorial does not have to review anything. It is in fact a pure expression of opinion. It can be as one sided as the author wants.

Reproduced from Dictionary.com
ed⋅i⋅to⋅ri⋅al
   /ˌɛdɪˈtɔriəl, -ˈtoʊr-/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [ed-i-tawr-ee-uhl, -tohr-] Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. an article in a newspaper or other periodical presenting the opinion of the publisher, editor, or editors.
2. a statement broadcast on radio or television that presents the opinion of the owner, manager, or the like, of the station or channel.
3. something regarded as resembling such an article or statement, as a lengthy, dogmatic utterance.

Reading the article before criticizing it would help. The goal of the article is to express his negative opinion. Of course there's BIAS. Isn't that the point of an opinion? Geez, stop expecting objectivity in an opinionated article.

No flames were intended .

 

Like I said before, bias is emphasizing information that agrees with you and omitting information that disagrees with you, and this article is a classic example.

His only "evidence" to support the claims are that the new MacBook costs a lot more and has about the same specs (CPU/RAM/HDD/etc.) He very conveniently forgets to mention the numerous innovative features that I've not seen in any other 13" laptop ever (all glass screen, tough machined aluminum chassis, class "clickable" touchpad), among others.

The fact is, many people are more than willing to pay a few hundred dollars extra for these features, and this article ignores that, making the bold (and incorrect) claim that there is no real reason to buy the new MacBooks.

This is bias to the point of flaimbaiting.

But as the definition above says, an editorial is just an opinion, so technically it's "ok" to be biased, but that doesn't make it right. Personally I still view it as an embarrassment to NBR that they would endorse these misleading and potentially harmful views.

If you don't think many people agree with me, just read some posts in this thread. I'll just say if I made a list of quotes that agree this article doesn't belong on NBR's homepage, it would be big.

 

Not to mention the GPU is in a completely different class.

 

Uhm zoogle, I did read it. Sorry if I missed that part. I'm looking more into the newer one in his editorial. But you're right, it is an opinion. I'm not saying that specs are unimportant, but they're to be expected to update every year so I find that common in updates. Dunno if you're trying to flame me though hehehe . I do understand english. Just couldn't help posting about it. FYI, I am in the tech sector also. Computer engineering.

 

The new Macs look good and do have some good software options. However I feel like most of the people that buy them are just sheep.

For example: One of my buddies (a girl) bought a new Mac. I asked her why she decided on that particular computer. She said because it looks "pretty". I also asked her why shes using itunes when you can use Amazon to buy DRM free music cheaper. She couldn't answer why. Its people like this that are getting ripped off.

I'll never buy any Mac product because:

1. Too expensive
2. The whole Mac "mentality"
3. Closed source. Much worse than M$ at this point.
4. On principle because Mac rips non technical people off (see example above)
5. Why use Mac when their are much better free options out there. Linux!

Again. Most normal non tech people that buy Macs are mostly sheep! And don't know any better.

 

This falls into reason #1 of my only two reasons to ever buy a Mac.

1. OS X
2. Final Cut Studio

Explain to me why the only reason to buy hardware from a hardware company is software? And on a store shelf OS X is about $130 compared to the $200+ for Vista. So why then is the hardware so expensive? It's the same stuff you can find in many other PCs? Blah blah touchpad, glass screen aside. Feature to feature the current MB and MBP are lacking the stuff people typically need to use on a daily basis (numerous USB ports, Firewire, DVI, HDMI). Clickable touckpad, so what? Most of the time I use a mouse anyways. And I can't say I am worse off for having buttons below my touchpad, instead of being integrated into it.

Edit: Oh and I STILL need to press the Control key to get a context menu with the one button Jobs gives us, bah!

 

^Yeah, probably nowadays. I love the macs my relatives are using because it keeps them off my back most of the time. "Sheep"? I thought mac people were clones. The music isn't apple's though, won't try to defend iTunes music store since I don't use it too, but they have a bigger library than Amazon. Uhm, what is "mac mentality"?

@ thund3rball:
You have to ask Apple about why the hardware is so expensive. I agree it's expensive (I bought my own mac refurb). But as I said for the purpose it does, it's worth it. I did say that it's for my relatives who aren't tech savvy. You may want a lot of extras but for my relatives, they don't need all those bells and whistles. To each their own.

 

I liked how some aspects of the Mac OSX interface were presented. The dock was cool, the system preferences window had everything in one location for system management, the dashboard concept, spaces, etc. The presentation was very well delivered in those aspects, yet I eventually felt limited in the level of customization beyond that.

With Windows, I could get some of those features. One big thing is I could use Object Dock to simulate the OSX dock, and I'm sure there are utilities that make system customization a breeze rather than fiddling with the nooks and crannies of the Control Panel (here's hoping Windows 7 resolves that). There are other tools out there that can simulate spaces and other things as well.

The bottom line here is that, with a little time and energy a person can setup Windows XP or Vista to achieve the "this is an awesome setup" feeling. Mac OSX in my view limits this level of customization, even though there are many tools out there that can be had to try to customize it.

 

^^ That's not what I meant. Yes you can make Windows look like OS X, but it is still Windows.

 

The Mac "Mentality": Closed mindedness with an overall smug attitude for no apparent reason that can be explained.

Case in point. When you see cars with apple bumper stickers showing you are a Mac owner. Stupid!

And when Mac commercials that have been running for the past few years bashing M$, make fun of M$ for making a commercial. Stupid!

 

To you, these features are "blah". To others, they can be very useful. Just because you personally agree with the article doesn't mean it's unbiased.

I already explained the advantages of the glass screen, touchpad, aluminum shell, etc. What don't you understand about their advantages?

 

We re not talking here only about the looks but as I can see u re not very good with reading so I would try that first If I were u.

English is not my first language so unless u re gonna answer this post in some other language then inglés I m gonna call u a moron. Also u re sure they were women?? maybe it was dark and u couldn't even see, cause no women likes to save money

Good for u cause so far u not impressing me one bit.

 

$700 for an ipod ... yeah I can see that pc-bots are really well informed. Instead of trolling here, how about u start posting something logical ... if your brain can handle it ofcourse

 

Yes there are advantages but there are also disadvantages to these features. The glass screen is more susceptible to scratches and cracks. Aluminum chassis have been known to affect WiFi signals. The slimmer body design is not as conducive for heat. And the touchpad, well it's just what it is. I don't see it as an advantage, more just a different way of presenting an input device. Tomato-Tomahto.

 

Putting glass on a screen has both negative and positive points. People are already complaining about getting dust behind their screens and i do wonder about the durability of these screens. There have been a number of people that have complained that these screens are just to glossy also because of the glass sheet that has been put over their LCD. A number of people seem to prefer the old glossy screens that were used.

Aluminium might sure look nice but as been said AL is less durable than Magnesium alloy or carbon fibre and AL probably costs less as well. It does not necessarily help a laptop stay cool as some people in the past have complained about their MBP's heating up to much so apart from a visual thing what else is a cert?

Because of new hardware these current batch of AL Mac notebooks seem to be cooler than those that have gone before but there are other PC notebooks that run cool as well.

 

yes, very nice immature response. Macs are build worse with fewer features? build worse then what?? Bently? I do hope u re not talking about that $599 dell again cause u re gonna be in for a big shock. Where Does more?? where? ... no final cut??? wait ... yes u dont even know how to use it probably. I m so sorry, not every redneck from texas will appreciate macs. I do feel sorry for u, Jealousity is a sin of this world.

 

What you said is true. The wifi issue is my complaint on my 'book. The glass screen is too reflective when I used the new ones. But the trackpad might be of some use with all the gestures. But it's not yet customizable though.

 

Other PC's that are 1' thick and pack in a 9600GT?? cause I d like to see dell doing that.

 

kudos go to u sir, very nice post.

 

Perry owns a PowerBook, you can see pictures he took of his PowerBook next to an LG he reviewed a couple of years ago:

http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=18298

He also wrote a Pro-Apple editorial 3-years ago saying there was a value proposition for a $2,000 MBP:

http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?p=1227748

Back when MacBook Pro prices were more in line with equivalent PC prices.

So I think he's qualified. He feels that Apple needs to lower prices similar to how PC prices have fallen, and that's why he wrote this.

 

I agree with the closing arguments about the economic downturn and Apple's higher prices. With the advent of EXTREMELY competent netbooks and the higher performance of notebooks costing half of what Apple charges it's no longer much of a deal.

The "Apple Tax" made sense when people had money to burn, and the price premium was only like 10-20%. Yes the notebook's constructed better, yes people like Macs having a high resale value, and yes OSX is a beautiful OS to use that only legally works on Macs; but at the same time is it really worth that much more for some better construction when technology moves so quickly forward? I mean, soon we'll be laughing at how slow NVIDIA's integrated graphics move compared to the competition's faster dedicated cards. Even the 9600GT will probably stay too long in the Pro and be outdated by the time they finally refresh it.

I'm sure the most faithful of Mac users could chalk up the criticism to jealousy, but I'd prefer good construction, blinding speed, and many ports.

 

I do not own a Mac, and have never owned one. However, I really like the new MacBook and MacBook Pro.

There is a big difference between using using Magnesium Alloy (or Carbon Fiber) panels and machined aluminum block. The latter looks nicer (completely seemless) and is more sturdy because it is a single piece, as opposed to many pieces held together with screws/hooks/etc.

To say Thinkpads and other business class notebooks have better build quality is just wrong. I have a Thinkpad T60 (14inch) and it is not nearly as good as MacBook's build quality. Thinkpad's inside pieces are all plastic, etc. There ARE some rugged notebooks that have stronger build, but they are generally not practical and extremely expensive.

There are very few light notebooks that has equal/better build quality as MacBook: Panasonic Let's Notes is the only one I can think of

 

The LGP310 is 13.3'' <4lbs, 9600GT.

 

its not 1' thick though. Saving weight is easy but being light and thin is not.

 

And? Its a far lighter and smaller than the MBP is it not? If it is so easy then why dont I see 5 other 13.3'' notebooks with the 9600GT? And what does a thinner notebook do? more portable? I'd rather take a lighter notebook thanks.

 

thats a nice achievement but I was talking about weight. U ve pointed out that the LGP312 was under 4lbs and had a 9600GT. I m talking about the thickness here. Sure apple can use bad quality plastics and get the weight under 4lbs but thats not the point here. I m talking about making a 1' thick notebook work with a 9600GT

 

And the necessity of have a thin notebook is? Nice looking? Oh and if you are trying to question the P310's build quality, have a look in the LG section and think again.

Oh wait, apple did use cheap quality plastics for the old Macbook, and guess what? It weighted 5.2lbs.

 

Well thats a matter of opinion. Apparently some people buy macs. Now what we all should do is write editorials and bash them for that cause we are very grown up pc-bots

 

Macbook was not the best product in apple's line-up but since this editorial talks about new ones lets stay on focus here.

 

Nice one, thats what you resort to when you can't think of anything else to say? I asked a question, I didn't make a statement. And am I bashing macs? No I am not. I am proving a point that there are other smaller and lighter notebooks that have powerful GPUs other than the MBP.

 

@ 2.0: This thread should consist of 2 posts-

1)macs are good bc of ...
2)macs are bad bc of ...

and should contain a pool.all other posts are just clones.

1)I want to apologize for my posts if they sounded rude.Lets continue this in more intelligent way

2)As a very happy apple customer,I am just angry with this post.Yes,I know that it costs more then a PC,but I things that I get from apple justify the price-at last for me.Let me explain.
a)The looks-It is one of the best looking notebooks one the market.Everyone ,after seeing it, says that it is very cool!And new one looks even better.
b)I got it from outlet,for a good price.I received a new machine,so I was very satisfied.
c)OC mac os it does everything I want and does it good,w/o viruses,BSODs,defragment,maintenance,etc.
d)Touchpad-I love big touchpad,and you can't find such big touchpad on other notebooks.+Love 2 finger scrolling,so I guess multi-touch is even better.
e)loots of small things like little white light on the front,iSight,etc.

oc.there are things that i don't like like "sharp palmrest" and scratching plastic,but I can live with that.

Apple has something special that I can't explain...and I am ok with paying premium for it.

 

Well u ve asked what the point of a thin notebook. So I m using mac users to prove it to ya. There are some people that like thin, light and sexy products. Please dont turn into sauron now or what ever is his nick name and tell me that looks are the only thing that apple can offer. Your point is proven, it was proven ages ago, even before that editorial existed so what is the point of it?

 

Fair enough if you want a thin and light product. The P310 is a thicker but lighter product that some people might prefer. Just as some might prefer a mac. At no point did it say thin was an unimportant factor, just went compared to other equally if not more important factors such as weight.........

Yes Xirrurg, you bought one for a good price, but most people dont, or dont get the chance to unfortunately.

 

^you know,you can buy from eBay for much cheaper-that is what I am planing to do 1800 +(or - )M$ cashback+ lack of tax=very attractive price for macbook pro


P.S. I have 1 "r" in my name