Guest Editorial: Apple "MehBooks" and the Future of Macs

I think the new Macs have a place as a trendy notebook. Kind of like an expensive watch or a pair of overly priced sunglasses.

The reason I don't buy a Mac (other than that they are over priced) is that I hate getting locked into their closed software and closed sourced technology.

I'll stick with PC's and Linux where you get a lot more freedom to do what you want and not get locked down and forced to buy only certain products.

 

Just configured a XPS M1330 on the Dell site for $1200. It has 250GB vs 160GB on the MB, a slightly slower processor and an extra GB of ram. The Macbook has a faster GPU and DDR3 vs DDR2. The difference is $100. I would pay $100 for a 50% GPU as shown in the Macbook review. We should all bash the XPS as well then. Or I can drag the Sony Z into this. I was totally in love with the Z until I figured out the price tag.

 

I've spoken to a few macheads, both male and female. It seems to me like women like macs because of thier branding, and the pricetag. It's like a piece of jewelry in a way. They don't buy it because it's better in any way, they buy it because it's a status symbol of a sort, basically because it costs more, and is well known to be a trend setting brand. Same as the iPhone, or iPod, it's a trend amung highschool and colleage students to own apple products because of the brand. I understand that alot of people enjoy using thier apple products, namely mac computers, but the truth is that it's just like buying a VoodooPC. The kind of people who buy macs usually don't care about the specs, only that it's visually appealing, and expensive. The average mac user only uses thier computer for websurfing (youtube, facebook/myspace, that sort of thing), storing videos/picture/music and IM'ing, that's about it.

My end point is that the target audience of apple products, and this line of notebooks, are your typical colleage, highschool students and trendsetters.
These new notebooks just need to be visually appealing, have good battery life, and be expensive to be successful amung thier target consumers, and I'm sure thier stock wont fall because a few tech saavy people realize they cost too much.

 

Yes, but no one with an ounce of sense pays retail price for a Dell.

 

It may just be because I'm personally cheap lol, but I've always though the XPS line has been overpriced too.

But given it's small (13"), I think perhaps the small macbook is the most "close" to what it should be priced at.

However when you're talking about 15" and 17" macbook pro's, the price is much more difficult to justify given competition in those mainstream and desktop replacement sizes

 

And may I ask where apple said that they are targeting "average user" with their products?

Also,another comparison: why does "Joconde" cost $$$$$$$$$$$$?

 

in same way you can buy mb from ebay for much less

 

Lol are you saying that 90% of Dell customers have no ounce of sense? How arrogant of you... Not everyone buy notebooks when there are coupons out. Most people dont buy them often and when do buy they need it immediately. Not as if the XPS line has coupons often. Outlet coupons yes but that is a whole different story.

I agree that the MBP and the 2.4GHz MB are overpriced. All I am pointing out is that Apple do have their bang for buck moments. The lowest end MB is just that comparatively. However people here seems bent on proving that the 2GHz MB is a ripoff. If it is the 2.4GHz MB then be my guest, 400MHz, larger HDD and backlit is not worth $300. But the 2GHz MB is comparable to what other manufacturers are charging.

 

I don't agree, particularly when we're talking about aluminum.

Aluminum is one of the most unforgiving materials you could choose to encase any portable device. If it gets bumped, it bends, and it's not bending back. There are many Macbook Pro/Powerbook owners who can attest to this.

Plastic has give/bounce. It can take bumps and bounce back. Sure, if you bump it hard enough it will give, and crack. However, most laptops (including that crappy Inspiron 13) are built with strong enough plastics to take everyday bumps without breaking.

But, overall, if Apple can price these things at a premium, and make money doing it, I say, "more power to them". Apple's got a good thing going there. Their niche may be small, but at least they put Apple in the black.

Who cares why they sell? The point is, they sell.

 

I'm not the one this question was addressed to, but I'm fine if people want to pay a premium for aestehetics. However, I'd rather pay a premium for functionality, and in fact I do so every time I buy a new PC notebook (and yeah, I everytime look at a MBP when it's time to buy, but it's inferior to my needs).

The thing here is that people are indeed fooled to think the Macbook is also functional superior by the hype, the fanboys and awkward reviews out there. Granted you can't compare apples with pies (Operating Systems and aesthetical preferences or whatnot), but you can very well compare PC hardware with PC hardware - and after all the Mac is a piece of PC hardware. Then the MBP looks bare naked, leaving just the aesthetics.

There is nothing wrong with that - the point is if that's really what you want it or expect. And if you are enabled by reviews and comparisons to your needs to make an informed decision. I therefore applause the take of NBR on that matter.

 

I agree with that to a degree however it can go both ways. Plastics can crack while aluminum does not. Aluminum does get dented. However I agree that aluminum is mostly for the look.

 

Still only TWO reasons to buy a Mac in my opinion.

1. OS X - If you hate Windows and can't tolerate Linux, this is your machine.
2. Final Cut Studio - Absolutely fantastic video suite. Better than any other pro-sumer software available.

Do these two factors justify the price to me... no.
Why are the only two reasons to buy hardware from a hardware company software related? lol. Good job Jobs

 

I agree with reviews before me....

this should NOT be on the front page.

MadEngineer

 

Excellent read and very informative with plenty of good points.

 

Are you talking about the Macbook or Macbook Pro? Or even which Macbook? Since in terms of PC hardware the 2GHz Macbook is priced reasonably.

 

The new "brick" unibody does however make the casing alot more durable. If you have tried out the new MacBook/Pro in person, they feel alot more durable with much less flex. The old MacBook Pro is constructed with a thin piece of aluminum with a skeleton inside, so there's much less support for the aluminum to protect it from being bent and twisted.

 

Agreed, buy-in, not to mention the lack of value for money (still 2 USB ports, still no card reader,STILL?! Cutting off FireWire on the low end New MacBook, ) pretty much kept me away when I was looking a year or two ago. I couldn't bring myself to spend hard earned money on a system so underspecced for the price, when I knew there were PC alternatives that gave me more for less. If there were more features at that price point, then yes, I probably would have made the move.

This was an excellent article, very well written

 

Nothing we say here will change Apple's business practices, so really this is all just opinion as people have said.

It's still an interesting debate though--how Apple uses its marketing/reputation/OS to sell a product which is (today anyway) basically identical hardware wise to other products in the market. They then charge a premium that would be difficult to pull off in other markets. Granted the premium varies depending on which Apple product we're talking about, but it's always there.

It's not like we're comparing a $15 000 Toyota to a $50 000 BMW though. This is Apple taking said Toyota, making it look really, really good on the outside, and charging BMW level prices. We all know Apple's laptops are made side by side with PC laptops in China. We all know they contain essentially the same hardware as their PC counterparts.

The only real difference is the outer body and the OS (and the Apple brand). But people really, really do love these things

As an aside...I'm sure this has been noticed before, but even the new body doesn't seem so unique anymore:

(MBP)


(Alienware M15x)

 

Admins,I need a clarification-

As from what I understand,NBR now officially "supports" this kind of things?

ok,let me give you an example-once,in AW,I was suggesting someone to go with Sager instead of m15x. then I was told(by a mod) not to comment on m15x since I don't have one and to go out of AW sub-forum.It was while back,but...

I don't see any difference in this 2 cases.If this is ok,let us start threads like this on other brands too.actually,there was one "why do people buy AW if sager exists"... that thread was closed,but people said that they are ok to go with worse build quality and much higher prices cos they get better design,lights,and the "name"....so,whats the difference?

 

It's their website. They can do as they please.

Or, should they be clearing these things with you first?

 

This is a notebook website, meant primarily to inform potential notebook buyers about various products. Apple has pervasive, stylish and trendy advertising all over the place, so what's wrong with informing potential buyers about a lack of value for money?

Comparing a macbook to luxury cars, or even to Alienware doesn't really hold up. An m15x might be costly and prone to problems, but it still packs a top end vid card. Bentley and Rolls Royce both put huge engines (and tons of features) in their cars. What exactly do you get for this premium other than a brand name? And if the brand name is all you get, why is it wrong to point that out? If people were buying Apple for the brand and not their specs, then why would this very spec oriented thread change any of their minds? This thread didn't trash apple. It didn't say Apple products suck, don't buy them. It showed several comparisons between Apple and competing products, then offered an opinion about the relative value.

As for why Apply is singled out for the front page, again, this is a notebook website. While I'm sure people have made similar comparisons regarding AW/Sager, the potential buyer pool for super high end gaming notebooks is far smaller than for more mainstream notebooks like Macbooks.

When everywhere we look we see an ad by Apple, why is it wrong for a website dedicated to notebook information to post information about Apple products?

 

I appreciate their support for "these" kind of things. It enables people to make an informed decision. That's what a good review site should be about, even if that means that not everybody is happy with everything that is said, written or drooled.

 

While I do like the designs of the new MacBooks, I agree that they are still too expensive compared to what can be had with other manufacturers. My next laptop in a few years will not be another MBP due to this factor. They are great machines, don't get me wrong. It's just the buy-in price is too steep and the upkeep price is too costly as well.

By "upkeep", I'm referring to the cost of staying in the Mac-world down the line when in need of getting a new MacBook. It seems as if it's gotten more expensive with the new MacBook line. So, in two-years time when I decide to change out my MBP I'll choose someone else unless Apple changes it's tune. Maybe a tablet PC, something that Apple should get into in my view.

 

It is about time that someone says what everyone else has been thinking. This refresh was trap, Editorials like this that goes against the grain, is outside the traditionally Apple centric blogging community are far and few. It takes guts to write an editorial like this considering the controversy it will garner.

It would have been easy to write another ran of the mill review praising the "brick" or "under $1000" Macbook.

A refreshing original editorial. If we censor this stuff, we are truly socialistic monotonous robots.

 

I knew it!!!!!!!

 

Don't you see how flawed that statement is? It blatantly assumes that specs are the only measure of a laptop's value, which is very wrong (and biased).

Like I said before, there's a lot more to a laptop than the CPU, hard drive, RAM, motherboard, etc. As it's been stated before these are all manufactured the same as any other PC anyway.

So what sets one laptop apart from another? Not the hard drive, not the CPU, not the RAM, etc. It's the case, the keyboard, the touchpad, the screen, the weight, the durability, the battery life, and sometimes the GPU.

It has nothing to do with Apple vs. PC. It has to do with biased and subjective content in the article. For example I could write a similarly biased article stating how nobody should buy Dell laptops because they are nowhere near the quality of Sony's $2000 - $4000 carbon fiber laptops.

Obviously, such an article would be biased, because it would point out that Sony is superior in one way (quality), without acknowledging Dell's advantage (low prices).

Similarly this article is biased because it points out that Dell is cheaper, without acknowledging that Apple's MacBook is really quite superior in many ways, and some people really do want to pay for this.

I'm a PC user (never used a Mac really), but I still hate to see such bias in a supposedly neutral website like this. Being able to be neutral and unbiased doesn't come naturally, since it's not human nature, but honestly I'm disappointed that the admins of this site aren't better than that.

 

Certainly. Their commercials do. By comparing a PC which has an average cost that is less and in some cases significantly less with similiar specifications to a MAC, they are making the case that a MAC is better than a PC. They don't bother to compare, say, a premium PC brand like XPS, HDX, or Sony Vaio with a MAC. They blanket with PC in general. More specifically, a PC running Vista. And since the gamut of PC's from high end to low can run Vista, and since the average user buys a PC of any kind running Vista, AND since they don't mention price in their "I'm a MAc , I'm a PC" ads, they are in no uncertain terms targeting the average user.

And they will talk up (aka suggestive sell) the average user who walks into a Apple store to buy their kit and justfiy the higher price. It's up to the consumer to decide if it really is worth the higher price to him or not. But there has been much disinformation especially concerning Vista and its early issues. So average "joe" computer user may think he's getting something better rather than know if he is or isn't. And that's Apple's game as of late. And it's paid off to a degree based on that advertising methodology. I view that as unethical since, IMHO, Apple has strengths that they can promote without resorting to disinformation which in some cases for certain users do justify the higher price tag.

Ackeron answered this somewhat logical misstep (I didn't say fallacy) in a prior post.

 

everyone thats saying you can get a better pc, show me a 5.5lb core 2 duo laptop with an LED screen thats UNDER 1 inch thick.

some people are mac lovers. others enjoy form over function... there's a reason macs look better than plastic pc junkers just like there's a reason a ferrari looks better than a ford fiesta. i have enough disposable income to "splurge" on a good looking laptop that aligns with all of my computing needs. i still dont see a point for this discussion. apple isn't going to be changing their business model to cater to those who can't afford macs.

 

Well actually the Sony Vaio Z still beats the MacBook by a quite a bit in terms of weight, build materials, screen quality, keyboard, battery life, etc. It's 13", 3.3 pounds, has an incredible screen, 6 hour battery life, etc.

But the new MacBook, even though heavier (4.5 pounds), has a few innovations like the glass clickable touchpad, glass screen, strong aluminum body, etc. that gives it a little edge over the competition in those areas (even though it's inferior in weight, and some other things).

Personally if I was to choose between the two I'd probably get the Vaio Z because of it's weight, but like I said the new MacBook's touchpad, etc. is pretty appealing. It all depends on your own personal preference.

 

I have always thought the Apple (all of their products) are more fation statments than for the power user. like the Mini Cooper.

note: I know graphics design people like them more because there a little faster for photo editing but I do not think that justifies the price and other short commings.

 

But, what if you're a careful owner... does case come into play?

Or if you don't have a need for an illuminated keyboard?

Or if a multitouch touchpad isn't relative because you use a Logitech multi functional mouse?

Screen? Weight by a few ounces, etc... and so on and so forth.

do any of these things really add up to the disparity of price considering that the manufacture cost of these components is but a fraction of the premium charged? It alL depends on preference at that point which is a subjective measure.

Internal specs is an objective baseline measure. It's just a starting point for discussion. And it does necessarily call into question value. Especially intrinsic value. That doesn't make Macs bad or evil. It's just a fact that needs to be considered. And if at the end of the day, all things considered, (or not), a MAC may be a better fit. That's cool. And that's real the point of the thread.

The OP is not saying, "if you buy a MAC you're an idiot wasting money and God hates you." He's saying, "hey, have you considered this...?"

Sure there's some personal commentary and prediction. But really so what? Those are his conclusions and anyone is free to disagree. I don't agree entirely with them. Apple is cash rich and can weather a downturn better than say DELL. And there's always sales and bundling to attract new customers. So I believe Apple will be OK should a protracted global recession hit. They've been through one before and they came out better than ever.

 

i think you're definitely right. i appreciate having a laptop that looks good while performing all the tasks i need it to perform.

 

5.5lbs = macbook pro. sorry, i failed to clarify. 15.4" laptop under 1 inch thick.... is there one?

 

1. Something tells me that the XPS line does not comprise 90% of Dell's sales.
2. Dell quite frequently runs promotions for their entire product lines, be they a fixed-price discount, free or discounted upgrades (RAM, HDD, processor), or limited-quantity specials.
3. These discounts are circulated not just through hidden coupon codes, but through emails, banner advertising, and even on good-old-fashioned newsprint in your Sunday paper.

Now then, on to the rest of this argument.

Editorials are, by their nature, biased. They're biased toward the opinion of the person writing them. If you think it's just a "professional troll" hard at work (while he's not lurking beneath a bridge handing out business cards) then feel free to ignore it - or better yet, submit a counterpoint article on why you believe that the price premium is worth it.

 

Well that's your opinion. I'd say it's all that + CPU, RAM and whatnot that together sets a notebook apart from another. Whether you choose it or not is your decision, and I still like the Macbooks even though they are not for my usage pattern - and not because of the prize.

So since you can have all of that with other notebooks as well, a comparison what you can get for your money elsewhere and a take on the value is a refreshing breeze to the hype the Macs get everywhere. The alternatives are manifold, yet the voices against any of such a value check seem monotonous.

 

There isn't one that I can think of that is under 1-inch thick. That is a factor in my opinion in why the MBP costs much more that others.

All the other 15.4-inch laptops provide more USB ports, memory card readers, and above all better cooling with a slightly thicker chassis. In this light, it doesn't make sense to have a chassis so thin for a high-powered laptop as it becomes more prone to over-heating. This is probably why Apple chooses mid-range graphics options for the MBP line rather than higher-grade ones. The bottom line is you pay more for less with an MBP.

Again, not saying that the MB/MBP is a bad machine. They are awesome rigs. It's just too pricey for what you get. Apple needs to seriously re-evaluate their pricing if they want to nab more market share from Microsoft.

 

I wouldnt classify myself as a Mac fanboy because I dont own any Apple products, but threads like these are just asinine and annoying. There may be a slight premium on Apple products, but it isn't nearly as significant as people make it seem, and for the most part you get what you pay for (top of the line LED screen, 9600M GT GPU, unparalleled build quality and design, light and portable)

In my case I want a laptop that is capable of playing games, but don't want the trade-off of having a nine pound behemoth decked out with obnoxious shiny orange accents and the stereotypical gamer aesthetics that virtually every other company uses. Only one other laptop besides the MBP fit my criteria, and it isn't available in America yet. The point is that the people that do buy them probably have legitimate reasons for doing so.

So if you don't want a Macbook then don't buy one, because frankly your just beating a dead horse at this point, and you could honestly find a more productive way of spending your time. Virtually everyone is in agreement that the new Macbooks are garbage, so threads like these are really just gigantic circle jerk of Apple-bashing, which became played out a while ago.

 

while macbooks are rather expensive, there's no way apple will be lowering their prices. they are gaining market share with their current price points. just to point out, my macbooks processor hasnt gone over 50C, even in processor intensive applications. i think any overheating issues are a bit overstated.

 

No,but rules must be equal for all...read my last post again.

you didn't get my point-I compared AW to Sager,and said that Sager gives you same performance and much better built quality/support,I didn't compared apple to AW.

It is not an information about apple products.I am a relatively long time member here,but I never sow a thread like this on any other notebook...why?

^see my response on last quote.this shouldn't be on homepage...it is like direct saying "NBR is saying "Don't buy apple" " .In best case,it should be a thread in WNSIB and be a little "rephrased".

 

I think this article is out of context here too.

 

What rules?

 

Maybe there should be a separate forum section specifically to the "forever-war" between Macs and PCs on NBR's forums...

 

I gave an example in one of my last posts

doesn't sound fair,right?

 

The Macbook is not even in the same league as the Z. But to be fair, they are targeted at two totally different kinds of markets.

 

Sorry you feel so jilted. I can't speak for the mod that told you that.

Apparently, NBR holds the writer of this editorial in pretty high regard. They presented this as them asking for this guy's opinion on the matter. Did they ask for your opinion on the Sager?

 

Apple does not want to license OSX to other computer OEMs because their Apple hardware sales will drop sharply. Why buy overpriced Apple hardware when there is a cheaper, same quality alternative? That is why Apple sues anybody or any company that make Mac clones.

For a desktop, I build my own custom made to my own specifications. Why blow money on a MacPro when I can get everything the way I want it? I can get a higher quality aluminum case with better airflow and cooling than a stupid MacPro. All for cheaper and higher quality.

The only reason I have a MBP was because my relatives got me one. Typical of Apple's quality control, mine had improperly applied thermal paste which overheated the MBP.

Apple = money down the drain. Apple throws away old tech like no tomorrow. Good luck getting support on older products from Apple. Apple's tech support solution to older tech is to buy more and new Apple products.

Apple = bad for Business organizations.

 

These are all your opinions. There aren't many notebooks that exceed or even match the build quality of a macbook. If macbooks are so horribly awful, why didn't you just sell your macbook pro in order to buy a pc??

 

^what do you mean by "Apple = bad for Business organizations."?

 

he means that apple is screwing everyone over because they are making money by charging a lot, when everyone else is trying to make money by selling laptops cheap.

 

You know exactly what I meant but just in case you don't let me explain it to you: Apple went out and made a decision that they'll build a bunch of computers using a selected number of components (which you were so kind to list above) and now they have to worry that their OS runs best with only those components. As you're probably aware they don't support EVERY SINGLE combination of RAM/HDD/CPU/GPU/etc but only those that they stick into the shell (made by someone else as well) with bitten apple on. And that my friend is far less of a task than to try and support all those PCs out there... Maybe that's why they had more time to focus on stuff like user-experience, ease of use and so on...

Now, if they released OS X for the masses and let it run on all PCs suddenly people would start complaining that the mighty MAC OS is not so mighty cause it crashes or runs slow or both (just as the other OS on the market which name I shall not bring here to prevent ad-linking).

Really, this should go without saying...