"Costco kills return anytime policy"

(I'm not sure this is the right forum for this. Apologies in advance.)

http://crave.cnet.com/8301-1_105-9691796-1.html?tag=cnetfd.mt

"We all knew it was too good to last. For several years now, one solid piece of advice to anyone buying a big-ticket item such as a plasma TV was to get it at Costco if possible, thanks to the big-box retailer's well-known return anytime policy. With the exception of desktop and laptop computers (limited to six months), a member could pretty much return any item at any time, including that $2,000 TV that suddenly stopped working two years later.

Of course, plenty of people abused the privilege, returning items when a cheaper model came out or using the return policy as a lifetime extended warranty. This, naturally, caused financial analysts to take a sour view of the overly generous company. (Note: I purchased my current plasma TV from Costco after being forced to wait almost five months while a third-party extended warranty company tried--and failed--to repair my old set.)

MSNBC reports that Costco's new policy is to allow customers only 90 days to return electronics--although they will extend the manufacturer's warranty to two years and set up a tech support hotline to help people with basic support issues.

The new Costco return policy states: "We guarantee your satisfaction on every product we sell, with a full refund. Exceptions: Televisions, computers, cameras, camcorders, iPod/MP3 players and cellular phones must be returned within 90 days of purchase for a refund."

 

It was being abused too much, like people buying a 50" HDTV for the Superbowl, then returning it.

But still, 90 days is almost 3x the time from the other stores like BB.

 

Still a much better policy than most stores, as cori said.
I'm sad to see it go, but good things never last.

Thanks for posting the story.

 

Wow, that's such a cheap move! I don't think I could have even thought of it.

 

Another example would be Christmas trees. Buy it, Christmas time yay, then return it.

 

Christmas trees! That's crazy.

Well, electronics go down in price so fast, I can see myself buying something expensive and returning it a year or two later to get the same thing for less... Probably... I don't know! Or what about, let's say your laptop broke and you need a new one ASAP, but some super awesome technology is about to come out in a month or two. Get one at Costco and return it when you can buy what you want, it's like a long-term free rental! Well, it's not like you can rent laptops, anyway.

Disclaimer: I've never been to Costco or returned used electronics or Christmas trees.

Malia

 

I've been to a CostCo, once, and it was just gross.

But I think that using the return period as a "trial period" is unethical. It isn't the intention of the manufacturer or the retailer to have a return period (which is for defective items and gifts you received that you already have) turned into a borrow-from-the-store-time. That's just my take on it.

 

I don't think there's anything unethical about returning something used that shows no signs of wear. (Otherwise though, it's not good, because someone else might buy it without noticing the damage first, and this someone did nothing wrong to deserve that.)

"The corporations" are winning the balance of power between us and them. They screw us every chance they get if it means more profit. Because business is not about being nice, it's about making money. Well, I don't like being walked all over! So if it happens to benefit me, I'll take some of that power back, thankyouverymuch. (Power = money.)

So that's why I'm not in business any more. Because I don't like calculation, and business = calculation. If we lived in a different world where businesses were about making the world a better place rather than making money, then yeah, it would be unethical. Until then, I'm on the lookout for loopholes.

Malia

 

Even at 90 days, that is a generous return policy!

If the policy is further abused, I'm afraid they might end up establishing the 5-15% penalty vendors like Best Buy or Circuit City have to combat the abuse.

r,
eagle

 

Actually HP & Dell (others too...) both have return for any reason policies for exactly that reason. HP seems to use the returns for replacement systems and spare parts and Dell, well, that is why there are so many Dell parts on the market.

Both companies even market the policy to encourage people who are just not sure about buying. So it is a double edged sword...they cannot claim foul then turn around and advertised "return for ANY REASON"...

Retial stores are on a much smaller margin then the mfg. I doubt Costco makes more the $200 on a laptop. It's likely under that by at least half.

It was their policy, then to turn around and cry abuse is just how people are these days...everyone who calls you to live up to your word is labeled an "abuser"...if ya don't want to let people return for any reason, then say it...otherwise live with the outcome!

 

Yeah, you are right here. Assuming the item was something you inadvertently bought or received as a gift.

I agree that many corporations are VERY unethical. In fact, so much so it's ridiculous how many of them exist, but they do. I am not convinced that ethics is an eye for an eye game, where if they are unethical we should retaliate with the same. Once again, my opinion on the matter.

How I wish that you were right. BUT, corporations won't exist if money wasn't at stake to be made. I agree with you that their interests need to be SPLIT in a more fair way between money earning and good service to society. It never hurts for the consumer to always be right, though.

 

If men were angels...

Eh, yeah. A kickass return policy like that couldn't last with consumers being the people they are. With corporations being the machines they are... One or the other had to screw it up for me.

 

What's unethical about returning something if it's in original condition? Even if you used it, there are no victims; the store has the same chance to sell it to someone after you returned it as it did before.

The only exception is if it's a small shop and the item you bought was something rare that they only had one copy of, so they probably ordered another one to replace it after you bought it, - because after you return yours, they have one more copy that will take half a year to sell. But, that's why stores like that usually only allow returns for store credit, or sometimes, no returns at all; otherwise, they are not learning from their mistakes.

Not so. Wal-Mart case in point. It's good for consumers that Wal-Mart has low prices, but it's wrong that Wal-Mart has sweatshops. If it paid higher wages, though, consumers would be hurt by having to pay more.

I don't understand why they had such a ridiculously long return policy to begin with. 3 months that they have now is more than enough time to figure out if the item you bought has any defects and whether it performs as well as you thought it would. Nothing wrong with having a 1 month return policy on anything, really, with the exception of stuff ordered by mail because shipping can take a long time. If you've had something for a month and didn't return it, it's either because you like what you bought or because you have priorities higher than returning the stuff. If you think about what's important to you before you decide on a course of action, you'll have no regrets about losing money by being unable to return something. Businesses lose money if they have to give you a refund on an item that's outdated/out of season/costs less now than it did when you bought it, and they shouldn't; you should be the one taking responsibility for your choices.

Malia

 

Something like this:


http://www.storyevent.com/outsmart-best-buy-circuit-city-save-hundreds-on-electronics

Summing up, the service reps can give discounts on big budget items, but not on service plans. If you talk them into giving a discount if you guy the large expensive service plan, then either, at the register, just buy the item without the plan or return the service plan.

 

I'm not sure I understand their policy.

Am I allowed to return the watch I purchased four years ago for a full refund?!

 

and the 6-month limit was because Costco once had a lifetime return policy. I do not buy the "...only unethical people use that policy to their advantage..." statements. Costco the corporation could care less about you the individual and decided the policy was the only way they could stay in business. It was Costco's response to the mfg's who had begun refusing warranty service of any kind on items purchased from Costco. That is the reason Costco began offering the unlimited refund period warranty.

So who was screwing who in that case? Costco did not care you were hurt if the warranty on something you bought from them was not honored by the mfg. They did not care because you the consumer were forced to pay cash and really had only the recourse of taking them to court. Not a worrisome issue for Costco. But to keep selling these sort of high end items Costco was forced to develop their own strategy. Hence the no-questions-asked policy. It was cheaper then creating a special support division or even partnering with an existing warranty program. The policy had nothing to do with "doing the right thing". Corporations do not care. There was even a period where Costco hired only attractive people (very true fact) and only in the past few years did they begin hiring the best person for the jobs. Costco was indeed guilty of discrimination based on looks. Personally I do not see a problem with it for the small business but when you being to look at hiring on the scale of Costco it can be an issue very fast.

But to ever shift the blame for stopping the policy or reducing the grace period has nothing to do with the consumer group itself. It was Costco who conceived and implemented their policy. It was to luring consumers to buy from them and provide the illusion of caring for the individual.

Like I said TS for Costco...there are still TVs, computers, whatever out there purchased under the old plan that they will be required to honor.

What Costco should have done it state that multiple returns for high priced items could result in termination of their membership. It's the only option that Costco would seem to have.

BTW, even Nordstrom has dropped the full refund for returns for life of any item one bought there. They cried abuse too, but it was a tool they used to justify their prices...yet when called on it by those who bought with that policy in mind were called "abusers" and blamed for the cessation of the program. In reality as margins on items decreased the program became a significant black hole on the books...so they simply plugged the leak. Then to deflect criticism they pointed the finger at those who dared use the policy as it was marketed to them.

Basically, sure it might be wrong to make returns for fickle reasons, but when the return policy was used to make a person want to buy from a company, then it is not unethical to return items under the policy using the options in the policy. After all the return policy it part of the item purchased just like the item itself. One would not by a laptop just to set the box on the table never to be opened. Well, most people would not do that....

 

We don't know if the OEMs were also exerting pressure. Unless Costco throws most of it's returns away (unlikely), they are sending the stuff back to get credit. Companies like HP may be restructuring their reclamation procedures, forcing retailers to stop unneccesary returns because they will be limited or no longer accepted after a specific length of time.

I've worked retail for 20 years and this stuff happens all of the time. At my company we throw all returns that are not DSD (Direct Service Distribution) into the trash compactor. No credit is issued and the product is destroyed, with the store taking the loss.

If you send an "unauthorized" item back for credit for any reason, the store is actually charged by the OEM's reclamation center for having to handle an "unauthorized" item. Talk about getting double screwed.

 

R4000:

excellent point!! I would imagine that for systems Costco could not do anything with would either be donated to a charity for the deductions or as you say, into the recycle bin.

 

Part of the intent is to make you buy the item even if you don't know whether or not you want it in the hope that you'll never go through the trouble of returning it even if you decide you don't want it. Just think of all the infomercials giving you all these nice gifts even if you return the main product. They bank on you being too lazy to go through the trouble of the return, and they make good money doing it.

I wasn't referring to electronics specifically. For books, for instance, there's no box to open, so if it looks new, it is new. And for electronics, there are restocking fees to make back some of the money lost on that particular item. The rest of the money lost is more than made up by items people kept because they didn't want to go through the hassle. (And if it's not, there's something the store is doing wrong here.)

Yep, they should've done that a long time ago. "No questions asked" should last only long enough to allow you to evaluate the item and return it without having to rush.

If you want to buy a laptop directly from the mfr, for instance, but it's also sitting on the shelf at your local Best Buy, aren't you gonna go there to check it out? And what are the chances that an employee whom you already told you don't need help will ask you again a little bit later? Does that mean you shouldn't go to the store to play with the laptop before you buy? Even though BB etc doesn't make money off you buying the laptop, the laptop's mfr wants the laptop to be present in the BB to increase brand awareness, so part of mfr's reason for making their price to BB as low as it is, is to cover BB's opportunity cost of having you check out the laptop but actually make the purchase elsewhere. (Cause a BB customer can't be looking at the same laptop at the same time as you, that's the only cost.)

Then again, if you know nothing about computers at all and you go to check out a laptop, and the same BB employee answers all your questions and tells you that the one you are checking out is the best thing since sliced bread, what are the chances that you'll go and pick up that same model online for less? If you really needed the salesperson's time, you probably won't, and most people will also feel like they owe it to the salesperson to make the buy.

I agree with everything you said. That's a funny point though. There's just not enough people that are good looking AND qualified to fill up a Costco!

Malia

 

wow do you return once worn prom dress the very next day too? i'm glad they reduced the return policy to 90 days and even that seems to be outrageous unless theres a serious defect with the machine. all that catering to bunch of fickle shoppers must come out of someones pocket and i sure wouldn't want it to be exploited at my own expense. this return policy is as outrageous as nordstroms.

 

That's why prom dresses come with tags that stick out on the outside, that must be attached in order for you to return. That's not a fullproof method though, of course; real scammers will just get a $2 tag gun and reattach the tag after the date. Prom dress manufacturers need more ingenious methods for dealing with abuse. Like attaching these outside tags with COLORED plastic things, because as far as I know, they only sell them in white.

Malia

 

My point was not the ethics of returning a product but rather why is it any more unethical to use the return policy that was used to entice your purchase to begin with. Trust me the company is well aware of the down side on this sort of thing.

What is bothering me is how the corporation is trying to spin this to the effect where anyone who dares make a return is somehow unethical. Spin that another way and one could say how unethical is a company who complains that customers dare use all of the options purchased with a product. The company sold you the privilege to return that product as part of the price for that product. It was factored into their overall pricing. And even though the policy has changed we will not see a pricing adjustment to reflect the changes. In otherwords Costco is going to see an increase in the profit margin for these products without raising their prices regardless of the return rate.

So it is a matter of perspective here...each protecting their own interests and in reality neither/or both are unethical. I guess I am trying to suggest this is not a black & white issue. And the consumer is sure not the sole reason for the policy change either.

 

I avoid buying electronics at the store anyway. Usually I go directly to the manufacturer. I made the mistake of going thru Best Buy once and their service plan is really useless. Anyway if you want a computer you look at it at a retail store and then you go buy online. That's what I do.

 

I returned a notebook I purchased at Costco. One of the reasons I bought there was the return policy. I knew after a month or so that I wasn't going to keep it as I disliked the low res screen, my battery was loose and I had the touchpad issue. I waited to return it until I got my new notebook, the R60. I think I would have been within 90 days. Did it rise to the level of defective, perhaps not. I did feel a little guilty. I didn't save any money. My ThinkPad cost a little more.

I had planned on getting my TV there as well as soon as a suitable deal came long, but I got such a phenomenal deal at BestBuy, I opted to buy there. Wouldn't you know it, as soon as I got my TV from BestBuy, a great deal came along at Costco, but since I already had my TV, I decided to keep it. As for the TV, a large appliance like that should last a long time. I wouldn't hesitate to return within the first year. After that I had planned to get an extended warranty as I plan on with my BestBuy purchase.

When you see someone crowing over at FatWallet or Slick deals how they returned a TV after a few years for a minor defect or to save some money, I wonder how the return policy lasted as long as it did.

 

Some retailers match the prices of competitors, and in the case of retailers like Macy's if the product you buy goes on sale within a week they give you the difference back.

 

grumpy is absolutely right. i don't even know why some people are debting the ethics, or perhaps the morals of this. business is business. we live in a cutthroat capitalist society. the united states is the epitome of making money. if a company advertises something they know what they are doing. a bunch of rich persons high up in some skyscraper in some big city discussed their business model thoroughly. the hunter of money baited their trap with an unlimited warranty. prey comes in eats the bait which fills their stomach customer gets full then decides to poop at the customer service counter for another meal. it's a trap with a hole in it. how are you going to point the finger at the consumer? you advertised the hole in the trap and stoop to blaming the consumer for evading the trap?

i can sum this up in one sentence to bridge the gap in opinons for the abuser, the consumer, costco, the readers of this thread and our favorite, the capitalist.

"it is too costly to lease plasma tvs, laptops, computers, cameras and even christmas trees at a fixed one time payment and/or 100% instant rebates redeemable when convenient for the buyer."

 

I think that the discussion of ethics is now moot, because people who have posted already know if they feel (personally) if returning a certain item is ethical to do or not. Maybe it's easier to declare one action unethical from another (say, returning a prom dress v. returning an LCD).

Interesting you point this out. I was hearing about this on CNET's podcast. It about being a savvy consumer - I guess - but it's sad at one level, because if everyone does it, we aren't going to have any electronics stores surviving. I'd rather have PITA sellers at CompUSA than NO CompUSA at all, for example. There's still a certain immediate pleasure of buying at your local store and supporting the local economy (vis-a-vis paying sales tax).

 

Of course computer manufacturers can always go the proprietary retail route like Sony and Apple. As far as I know, I really love the Apple Store and SonyStyle showrooms. The guys at the Apple Store don't bug you until you ask to be bugged, the products are displayed in an attractive manner and the sales consultants actually know something about the product (UNLIKE the guys at Best Buy....iPods can't do voice recording...uh what? are you out of your mind?). Yes, it costs more to do retail distribution inhouse, but there's more control over the point of sale.

 

Well...Dell needs to stay away from that approach..their products are hideous. No one that remotely cared about aesthetics would actually buy a Dell.

 

as a owner of a Dell Inspiron E1505 (6400), i must say that no, it does not looks a nice as the new Hp line of notebooks which i was dying to buy, or even the new macs. but i have grown acustomed to my notebook, and i like it just fine. i accually perfer mine the Hp's because it was a.)cheaper for what i got, b.) felt more textured, not just all smooth like the Hps (including the touchpad).

 

There will always be B&M stores because there'll always be people who'd rather pay more to buy in person. Undoubtedly, there will be fewer and fewer B&M stores around, and you'll have to drive farther to get to one. So?

How often do you buy a piece of electronics that you must experience in person? Look at the screen, see if the mouse is comfortable, hear the speakers, whatever. It's inconvenient to drive further, but it's a rare inconvenience.

Oh, and you don't have to actually buy from that one gigantic store in the middle of nowhere. There's a lot more people per AV store in the area, so there will still be enough purchases for the store to make money.

So, bottomline: sucks for people who like to buy in person, but the savings are worth it for those that don't care. I actually prefer shopping online for just about everything so I don't have to be in crowded places, wait in lines, be polite to people I don't like, and spend time going from store to store which makes shopping a whole affair. And I actually like shopping.

Malia

 

Sounds like we are related...we buy almost everything but food online anymore. The big box stores drove mom 'n pop out now the web is killing the B&M's big retail stores for the most part. In one way I love the karma of that but in another way I don't see where people are going to work in another 10-years.

 

No arguments there. However, the only thing that you're losing is the time it takes to drive to a store. There's many ways to look at it. One of them is, since fewer people are going shopping physically, maybe there's less av-shopping-related driving and associated CO2 emissions. In other words, it's not all negative for one group, and the negative part isn't so bad anyway.

Actually, I don't know if you specifically are losing anything since you like high end stuff, and if it was all over the place, it wouldn't be high end, - so when CompUSA closes half its stores, I would guess you're not affected.

I wish FreshDirect delivered to where I live! I wouldn't so mind if the supermarkets here weren't so bad though. Well, as is, I guess my arms are getting some exercise carrying groceries home or something - cause I like a lot of juice and juice is heavy!

A friend of mine's family used to own a hardware store. Then, Home Depot came to town, forced my friend's family's store out of business, and now my friend's dad is working at Home Depot himself. Boo hoo, right? Well, he's making something like $20 an hour, so I don't feel sad. So he can't waste money on Betamaxes of today just for the hell of it, so what. Mom & pop shops are inefficient and can't possibly have the selection of Home Depots. It's kind of the same thing with online. Yeah, there's not a lot of stores with gigantic selection like Amazon. However, all online stores are equally accessible; the main difference that consolidation would make is combined shipping, but it's no big deal when you compare it to sales tax. I hate sales tax with passion! It's a regressive tax against poor people. Arg.

Re where (unskilled) people will work in 10 years - Well, I guess a bit fewer teenagers will have jobs. On average though, the population is becoming more and more educated, which will offset some of the demand for unskilled jobs. However, this discussion pertains mostly to electronics. Most clothes will still be sold in stores because Americans like to try things on, most food - in supermarkets since most are quite nice and sane, stationery - in drugstores and office supply stores 'coz they aren't that pricy per item to begin with which makes the convenience worth it, and so on. The remainder will work in warehouses created by more online stores

Malia

 

You have a good point zx10guy, but it is the nature of technology is to eliminate the need for unskilled labor. A good example would be the checkout lines at supermarkets. Five years ago, you couldn't find a store with an automated checkout line. Three years ago, you start seeing one or two of those auto-checkout lanes in the occasional supermarket. Nowadays, most brand name stores in my area use automated checkout lines, and it's hard to find a cashier line in service at an off hour. How much longer before the role of the supermarket cashier becomes as obsolete as the Pony Express? How much longer before machines will be able to do the work of our farmers, soldiers, doctors, etc...?

The only profession that has always withstood the test of time and technology is that of the lawyer. So come 2055, my prediction is we'll have 3 billion lawyers and 9 billion unemployed on welfare.

P.S. Does Costco sell food? Cause I'm looking forward to sampling some canned caviar, then sending back the can for a refund.

 

It's very hard, especially in a free capital society with a laissez fair political outlook, for outsourcing not to happen. The only thing that most big businesses really need to care about in such a society is the color of the ink that goes into the accountants' books, and outsourcing jobs to countries where the workers are willing to work for a fraction of the labor costs provides a quick and dirty way of getting black ink into the books instead of red.

Sure, the quality of work may not be as good, and the long term socioeconomic prospects of the businesses' home country may be damaged, but most business executives won't care as long as they triple the company's earnings while they're in charge and get that $20 million dollar bonus.

Not saying it's right, and not saying companies doing charity work and donating funding to community projects shouldn't be applauded, but at the end of the day if they are for-profit organizations then their only real objective is to make a profit and live to see another quarterly earnings report.

But hey, I'm with you on how this trend of outsourcing tech jobs is damaging to the homeland economy. Maybe a big, 1930's era recession will force politicians to start reigning in their business partners and put some New Deals onto the table.

 

I once returned a notebook to costco after about 2 month because it was just not living up to my standards. I felt bad and told them so. The return guy said its no problem since this is my first computer return, and that there are many people who return their computer system every 5 month. He told me that Costco is loosing money in their computer sector, and I guess their unlimited return policy did the same to the rest of electronics.

On the other hand that is one of the apeals of buying stuff there, right? I feel less inhibited of buying that $5000 TV if I know I can return it if I don't like it. And if I like it, I will keep it. WIthout the return policy I would have probably not bought it because I would feel the danger of not liking it and regretting the purchase is too high. They are in effect getting rid of the "buyers remorse" danger by offering unlimited return policy. I am not sure if a 3 month return policy will make me feel comfortable enough to buy big ticket items. And what is the difference now of buying from Costco vs. Best Buy, or some online retailer if the prices are the same?

 

hehehehe...no argument there! Besides if I did eventually someone might sue me for defaming the profession.

As for food as Costco, yup they sell everything from industial sized drums of joke itch powder to china peas. Funny is they give away free samples during the day for the most part. Year ago the a bunch of use guys from the office would hit Costco for "lunch" a couple times/month. Got to where we knew the sample gals by first name.

For those who mentioned the issue of the jobs leaving being "unskilled" think again. When I started college in the late 70s the push was to get degrees in technology fields. Well, there are so many software engineers working at the hardware store because their jobs were not just outsourced but off-shored.

I have to agree that large corporations do have a responsibility to the communities. People deserve loyalty if they are themselves hard working and loyal to a business.

And as ZX mentioned this is outside the scope of the thread but I thought I would fire it off anyway...sorry...it's just not possible to read such a discussion when some opinions do not really seem to understand that if a person spends a lifetime doing the right thing only to have someone say "it's just business...good luck on your next career" is simply not right. Maybe it's more that it became the in-thing for corporations to do. And with all the cookie cutter CEO's and talk head VP's around with business, ahem, "degrees", cough, laugh, cough, who never were taught what ethics means in terms of people, it's a scary thing to see in the short period it has happened.

I happened to read an interesting article in the LA Times last week about just this issue. They were researching today's college students and they seem to have become very ME oriented and over ambitious sorts with little in the way of compassion for their fellow humans. They care more about getting big $$$ then about quality of life. Maybe it's a reflection of the materialistic bent people have anymore. Gawd I sound like an old geezer...d'oh!!

All I know is I got out of that part of life almost 15 years back and it was the smartest thing I ever did...if I had not I would have been on of those guys coding for $15/hr just to pay the bills.

again sorry for contributing to the thread-jack...

 

You may be very close to right...given the house markets and how many people got coaxed into some pretty spooky mortgages that are now coming due, only time will tell.

 

I bought my laptop from Costco in december under their old 6 month return policy, so are they required to still honor this return policy or do I get screwed over with not having the option of returning it now?

 

so you are saying that you purposly bought it and knew you would want to return it later?...

 

Hmm What the hell = me trying to understand your point. Confused = me