Apple Releases New MacBook Air with Intel Sandy Bridge Discussion

It was only a matter of time, but the team in Cupertino have announced an update to the 11-inch and 13-inch MacBook Air laptops. The new ultraportables feature the second-generation Intel Sandy Bridge processors, backlit keyboards and a Thunderbolt port.

Read the full content of this Article: Apple Releases New MacBook Air with Intel Sandy Bridge

Related Articles:

• Apple MacBook Air (11.6-inch) Review

 

Looks like these might be the processors:
1.6GHz i5 vs 1.7 GHz vs. 1.8 GHz i7

The 1.7 Ghz i5 and the 1.8 GHz i7 look pretty evenly matched in terms of GPU turbo clock speed and CPU turbo clock speed. I wonder if the extra $100 is worth it...

 

I shudder to think that a fully-loaded HP dm1z, at half the price of the base 11" Air, is a far better deal.

$999 in this day and age for a notebook that still has only 2GB RAM in it and no dedicated graphics just doesn't sound "magical" to me.

 

You're forgetting portability. Size and battery life comes at a price. That HP has far worse customer service, *probably* worse battery life, and *probably* bigger than the MBA.

Dedicated GPUs are only really useful if you plan on gaming; the Intel GPU with Sandy Bridge is good enough for anything non-gaming that you can throw at it. People really need to get off this high horse that they need a 30-300W GPU or it isn't a good computer .

That being said 2GB of RAM on the standard model is probably the only serious flaw in the hardware lineup. 4GB should have been the minimum.

 

Eh an 11inch can only get so portable. I seriously doubt an extremely weak nerd would not be able to lift a 4lb dmz, but be able to lift a 2/3lb mba. Not that I'm insinuating that anybody can't pick up a 4lb dmz, but that the weight and size difference is going to miniscule.

You're right though, you pay double for the better customer service, and asthetics. And using osx legally.

 

$1199 - 11" MBA 2.38 lbs and SB i5 and Intel GPU, 2GB RAM, 128GB SSD

vs

$710 - HP dm1z 3.46lbs with AMD E-350 with ATI 6310 GPU, 3GB RAM, 128GB SSD.

For almost $500 extra you get a better Intel CPU, a little over a pound lighter, Apple style (very slim), OS X, lighted keyboard.

Depending on whether you value the style and OS X will determine if the Macbook Air is worth the extra money. For some, no money in the world would get them to use a Windows based system. Still more people like the Apple cachet.

Hard to compare the 2.

Cheers,

 

I knew this MBA refresh was coming, and it was a strong contender in my recent laptop purchase decision. I have a serious lust for the size and weight of the 11.6", but it just comes up lacking for my needs -- as does the 13". I travel and do presentations a fair amount, and would be miffed if I needed to carry around a dongle every time so I can output to a projector, or connect to wired ethernet (which I happily choose over wireless). I ended up plenty delighted with the machine in my sig.

 

Yeah, for ulraportables, weight and build are very important. MBA is intended to compete with the likes of Samsung Series 9 and Vaio Z. 13.3 MBA (which is the better of MBAs, AFIAK) has price/spec similar to Series 9. New Vaio Z kills MBA, but it is at least 600$ more expensive. IMO, MBA is the most competitively priced of all Mac laptops.

In term of weight, DM1z is closer to Portage R850, Vaio S, or Thinkpad X220.

 

Heck, you could buy a 11.6" Acer C-50 notebook at Target for less than $200 this week. Is the Macbook Air worth 5 times more than an Acer?

You have to remember that you're not only paying the price for the higher quality hardware but for OS X. These days Apple can get an ever increasing premium due to the decline of the Windows brand. Yup, Mac buyers have always paid a premium.

So is the cheapest Macbook Air worth 5 times as much as the Acer? A year ago I'd say "no," 6 months ago I would have said "maybe" but with the premier of Lion I'll say "probably."

Dedicated graphics? In this form factor?

As far as the limited RAM, I do agree, but OS X isn't as resource intensive as Windows, and I can't imagine running Windows and OS X with only 64GB.

 

You forget that HP made the DM1 extremely easy for the user to do simple upgrades to ram, HD, and battery. The switch under battery allows the user to remove entire bottom for easy access. Most people are doing their own SSD upgrades for 200 dollars or less. So its more like 600 dollars for a new dm1 with SSD and 4 gigs of ram. At that price you can build 2 dm1's with SSD and 4 gigs of ram for the price of one air with half the ram.

The reason I don't care much for Apple is they will go out of their way to design a very weird screw on the airs case that keeps the end user out. There are no readily available drivers that can open it up. Once inside you will see traditional screws so its pretty obvious what Apple's intentions are here.... to keep you out and keep you tightly bound to their support repair centers. At least OSX allows some freedom for users but the Ipad/Iphone with the IOS is insane how locked down that OS is.

 

If price were no object I would love the thing. However, I find the base 64gb flash drive too small. The upgraded 128gb flash drive I could live with but I would end up connecting to a USB drive more often than not.

In all practical terms I would find it very hard to justify the MBA over the likes of the HP or my Thinkpad x120e. The Windows machines have far more HD space (if only as conventional drives vs flash). The battery life of the BMA is about equal. The touchpad of the MBA is great but the good keyboard is no better than those on the HP or x120e. The MBA is more portable because it's thinner but we are in the marginal range. Basically it is really cool and even though it's got more CPU I just can't see justifying it over a PC since I place basically no premium on the Apple OS.

 

I really wonder why people are comparing netbooks with the mba 11, the latter have a lot more punch, a lot more build quality, a poster said it right, the mba are to compete with the samsung 9

 

Am I the only one who is annoyed that Apple isn't putting USB 3.0 in the new MacBooks? Yes Thunderbolt is AMAZING technology, but there are MANY more USB devices on the market and if you want the fastest possible USB experience you need a USB 3.0 port.

I really wanted to buy a new MacBook Air, but I don't think I will now that it doesn't have a USB 3.0 port. That probably sounds stupid to some people, but I like the idea of using fast USB 3.0 flash drives or external hard drives on both a Mac and a PC without having to deal with multiple ports.

As great as Thunderbolt is, I think PC manufacturers are going to focus on USB 3.0 for high speed data ports. Likewise, although I'm sure there will be some Thunderbolt accessories on the market, we'll see far more USB 3.0 devices.

Of course, there are still plenty of other reasons to buy a Mac.

 

Jerry, time for you to embrace VAIO Z, then.

 

Id pay $500 extra to get rid of osx, apple style and the dreadful keyboard. Just saying.

 

Decline of Windows justifying an ever-increasing Apple price premium? What? Windows 7 is fantastic. I love it. "Decline of Windows" is what I said during the Vista era, not today. Three years ago, I was willing to pay a hefty premium to have OSX Leopard instead of Windows Vista. Today, I'd choose Windows 7 over OSX Lion for the same price.

It's Apple badge cachet (think BMW badge cachet) and stylish cases, not the "decline of Windows," that is causing an ever-increasing price premium for Apple products.

 

I completely agree with you.

 

No USB 3.0 in the MBAs and no Blu-Ray in the MBPs...I don't agree with either decision.

 

On the topic comparing netbooks to the MBA11. I think its a very valid comparison. Is the MBA11 worth the ~$450 over a dm1z or an X120e? Performance matters less since the both laptops are interesting to customers that are willing to compromise performance (or else they would be more interested in laptops like the Thinkpad X220 or the Toshiba R830 that use Standard Voltage chips). Unlike going from Atom to E-350, I don't think that the E-350 to ULV Corei is as large of a jump usability-wise, even if its possibly larger in raw numbers. Also, the dm1z/X120e configs we are talking about have 4GB RAM, which might possibly make it faster than the base MBA11 for certain things (though 2GB is really the "just enough" point for RAM like the E350 is the CPU "just enough" point imho). So what is really left is weight and thickness, and whether nearly doubling the price (and losing an easily replaceable battery and some RAM) is worth a few fractions of an inch and a pound or so.

So true. Though, if you eliminate the Apple style, it might just cost $500 less.

 

I personally don't see the e-350 powered computers as netbooks any more than I would see an ultra-low voltage pentium or C2D as a netbook. My x120e feels as fast as the Toughbook W8 I had for a bit. The W8 certainly wouldn't have been classed as a netbook. Either way, systems like the x120e are real competitors. Yes, they aren't as powerful and for the most part the MBA screen is nicer (though the x120e offers a matte screen). But the MBA has VERY limited storage options. Right now you can get the small MBA for $750 (Apple store refurb). Tempting (if I were still in the market) but for the tiny 64gb SSD. Sure SSDs are great but I want to have some space on here. The price for the 128gb drive (smaller than the smallest current netbooks by over half) is near $1000 even for a refurb. For me the lack of drive space represents a basic, fundamental limit. The 128gb is the smallest I could seriously consider for anything more than netbook money. Sure my x120e is slower to boot and thicker (by about 0.4") but in many ways it's not just more for the money but more period regardless of the huge savings.

 

The other problem is Apple's choice for the mini display port. I have a 25" HP 1080P monitor, a 42" and 55 inch Vizio 1080P TV's that all connect to my dm1 with a hdmi cable. But Apple always has to make things as proprietary as they can and use the mini display port requiring you to purchase the additional adapter and carry the adapter around to hook up to devices. The choice of using thunderbolt instead of USB 3.0 will also limit the user to far fewer choices for high speed storage devices as has been mentioned before.

 

It's interesting that people compare AMD E-350 netbooks to the Air with Core i5.

I haven't seen any accurate benchmarks yet but I'd guess the i5 may be more than 3 times as fast.

I'd say far better CPU, better touchpad and much better screen.

 

Numbers don't translate into experience. The E-350 isn't fast, but rather fast enough. I don't see many things where the ULV i5 would offer a real world benefit over the E-350 in performance that wouldn't benefit from an even faster Standard Voltage CPU. Performance reason to upgrade to the MBA 11 are pretty much non-existent in my point of view, since if you need performance, for 1kUSD there are ultraportables with standard voltage CPU's that are much faster than the ULV i5.

I don't really see the screen argument either, the MBA 11 is a glossy 16:9 TN panel, if screen quality is worth $500, then the Thinkpad X220 has an matte IPS panel, though still 16:9 and low resolution.

So its $500 for about a pound in weight, a better trackpad, a few fractions of an inch, and the ever annoying glowing logo of Apple.

 

The X220 is good to compare to the MBA. I also think the X220 wins. But HP DM1? The E-350 is a low end CPU with a decent GPU, it doesn't have hyper threading or turbo boost.

I've worked two weeks with a Sony Y 11" with E-350. Heavy webpages created 100% CPU spikes and lags. During installing updates or virus scans the system became noticeably less responsive. So in my experience the E-350 was often the bottleneck. Especially during multi tasking. And I'm not even a heavy user.

I've seen several benchmarks that put the E-350 at the level of dual core Atoms, which is not surprising to me,

TN panels come in all sorts of qualities. The MBA one happens to have tripple the contrast of the panel in HP DM1 and it's much less reflective. Here some measurements from Notebookjournal.de and Anandtech.

MBA
contrast: 667:1
brightness: 317 cd/m
gamut: 47,3 %

HP DM1
contrast: 189:1
brightness 208 cd/m
gamut: 40%

Anand calls the screen on the MBA 'very good', the one on the DM1 'mediocre'. I totally agree.

Contrast levels and brightness of the MBA screen are close to X220 levels. Brightness is actually higher on the MBA. X220 has the better colors and viewing angles of course.

 

The x120e and x220 can both be reasonably compared to the MBA. Sure the MBA's cpu is more powerful than the E-350 but as others have pointed out, does that really translate into an advantage? I mean are you really going to be doing things on that computer that need the extra power? For that mater would you be doing those things on a computer with HD space similar to what we would have found 4-6 years ago? I mean even netbooks seem to come with 160gb minimum. Yes, the MBA beats the x120e for pure computing power but fails when you factor in the ram and HD limits. Should we also mention the very limited connectivity options and the need to carry a converter to connect mini-display port to anything?

If you really want portable power the X220 is a far better choice. Now we are talking about similar money but more battery life, a better screen, more HD and RAM and, if you do presentations, a built in VGA port.

Don't get me wrong, I love the 11" MBA as a very cool toy. If I had money to burn I would love to have a windows version (or put up with Mac OS even... this is only my personal preference for W7, not a negative statement about OSX). The MBA screen really is very nice even though it's glossy. The thing looks really cool and is very light (though really no more portable than my x120e).

Yup, it's very cool but it isn't functionally better than the E-350 powered subnotebooks.

 

The E-350 will even bottleneck simple things like launching Word. So yes it translates into something that you can notice during everyday usage.

The bottleneck will become more apparent when you're installing updates and still want to use your computer.

So sure an E-350 can handle netbook usage but that doesn't mean it isn't often a bottleneck.

 

Why do these threads always turn into resentful whining sessions? Is it deep seated envy for products that they really want but outside their price range? I never see people complain about the Vaio Z, the upcoming Samsung Series 9 (more expensive, lower spec), or X220 in the same way. The Panasonic ultralight is also higher priced and lower spec, yet I see no one complaining.

To the whiners, believe it or not, every manufacturer makes machine for specific segments. A Vaio Z is not made for everyone. The Air is not made for everyone. Go be happy with your computer and let go of the resentment and envy. It's not healthy to keep it inside.

For the Air's targeted customers, 1440x900, core i7, aluminum body, 256Gb SSD, 4G ram, and backlit keyboard for $1700 is an amazing deal. Believe it or not, some people NEED more resolution than a 1280x800 or a battery that lasts more than 2hrs. Every user has a different need. For me, I can't find an alternative comparable to the Air for my needs. I originally had a fully spec'd X201 and sold it to get the Air because the X did not serve my needs. Not everyone use a computer just for email and web browsing.

 

Your post does beg the question, why does the air have a better screen than the 13" MBP?

 

The Macbook Pro display has the higher gamut (77% vs. 47%), the Air has the resolution.

 

No body complains about Panasonic being over priced because despite its incredible light weight when one got thrown at your head it's your skull that's more likely to fracture than what's inside Panasonic. X220 has very few complains for probably the same reason.

Samsung 9 and VAIO Z? I see a lot of whining, actually, but somehow they are all in Sony's section instead of here. There is even a dedicated whining thread for people that have VPC-Z1 to whine about VPC-Z2.

 

I find it ridiculous the HP and Dull users keep bringing up the DM1. The dm1 was made for their kind. Their kind don't appreciate the cost of aluminum, ultra lightweight, and long battery life. Their kind only want one thing. Bang for the buck. You see them in every tech forum, gadget blogs, review site whining about why companies just don't give them a diamond encrusted product for $1. HP and Dull caters to their kind, and they should stay over there.

Also, their kind talk about 8Gb of ram in a computer that has 1280x800 resolution because they need that much ram to surf the web and camp out on facebook. Maybe they need 8Gb of ram for Powerpoint since it's such a demanding software. Those people are jokes.

Speaking of weight, I had originally wanted to get the Z because of the resolution, but opted for the X201 for the sturdier build since I was going to do some extended traveling. I was never happy with the weight of the X201. The extra 1.5lbs makes a difference for travelers carrying other equipment. I was extra unhappy about its low resolution screen. I have the 2010 Air, and when that was announced, it was a godsend. Sturdy build and screen resolution. The work I do cannot be done on a low res "HD" 1280x800 screen. These new Air look very tempting, but I'll hold out for the Ivy Bridge version since my current one is fast enough for light post processing in the field and software development. I'm in no rush to get a Dm1 for their fast processor since my web browsing habits don't require an i7 like the whiners do. BTW, the Thinkpads do get very good battery life, but at extremely throttled performance. The Air gets 5-7hrs without sacrifice in performance. I've had 2 Airs, several MBP, several Thinkpads, one Dull (worst crap made on earth, same goes for HP), and two netbooks so I have a very good feel for these computers' true battery life.

If you thinking you should compare the Air to a netbook or a dm1, it wasn't made for you. Please go back to playing farmville. We grown ups have real work to do.

 

That's a kind of insulting post.
Made for their kind? Are you suggesting that deciding $1000 is too much to pay for Apple's equivalent is dumb? I love the MBA 11" but let's be realistic. The extra power doesn't translate into much usability vs the E-350. I like the build quality of the MBA but I'm not interested in paying $600 more for that build quality. Perhaps you are clueless for thinking that such superficial to the function of the computer things would appeal to everyone.

The light weight is great but it's not like we are talking 2.5 vs 7 lbs. The weight difference is rather small. The battery life difference doesn't exist. To suggest as much means that you don't even understand what you are comparing.

I don't recall people saying these computers needed 8gb of ram. I'm not sure if I would notice if my x120e had only 2 vs it's 4gb (the upgrade cost me $15 so why not). BTW, which computer has 1280x800 pixels anymore? Well aside from the MBP 13"

Now if you are going to talk about something like the X220 which does have enough CPU to do some heavy lifting then yes, the ram can mater. A coworker of mine uses an X210 with an external display for CAD work as well as Matlab jobs. The extra memory (vs the 2 in the MBA) does mater.

I think your "very good feel" for battery life is only in your head. The Air is Apple's answer to the ultraportable market. It's a neat machine but realistically it's just a nicer version of the DM1z or x120e type machine. It does have more CPU but so much less HD space. The battery life is a wash but some of the fan boys are clueless

 

Are you trying to insult people who don't think the upgrade to the MBA11 from an X120e or dm1z is worth it? Everyone has their needs, and some people find that the MBA11 doesn't meet their needs any better than a dm1z or an X120e does.

I would rather the X120e over the dm1z personally. The MBA13 is nearly 3 pounds, I'm pretty sure this is the same weight as the X201s with 6 cell and half a pound lighter than the X201s with 9 cell.

I don't see that many people complain about not being able to have 8GB of RAM. Only a few people that really need that much RAM and fanboys looking for things to insult Apple with.

The X201s has a 1440x900 screen option. It's also about the same weight as the Air. I think it also gets into 10+ hours of battery with the extended battery I heard, though that puts it at .5 pounds over the Air. Though how much is half a pound really worth? And aren't you sacrificing performance anyways since the Air uses a Core 2 instead of the Core i?

I can agree with this somewhat. If your needs are met by a dm1z or X120e, you have no need for an Air. I still think its a valid comparison though, as some may or may not benefit from going to an MBA11.

 

I saw the new airs, I'm actually impressed.
The price has taken a nosedive. I remember $1800 for original base lol

-Get the $50 student discount
-Skip the 2GB 64GB
-$1150+tax for 4GB / 128GB 11.6"
-$1250+tax for 4GB / 128GB 13"

Lets compare to what I just order:
X220- i5 2520m, IPS, 2GB, HDD
$780+ tax (including 1year next day on-site warranty upgrade)

So far, MBA seems good since it has 128gb SSD and 2GB more RAM

Now add these to X220
8GB ram - $60+ tax
128GB Corsair M4 - 210+ tax

So $1050+tax for X220 including CPU,RAM,SSD upgrades.

X220 wins but MBA is not too far behind.

The new airs are well priced imho, considering i5, 4GB, 128GB SSD, high resolution are In the base price (excluding the lowest 11")

 

True facts. In person, the MBA 13 screen underwhelms. It's bright, it has decent resolution (though doesn't hold a candle to my Z with 1600x900, much less 1080p. Color gamut (95% on Z, 77% on MBP 13, 47% on MBA 13) really separates the pack. MBA is fine for anyone who doesn't care much about screen quality. MBP is in the top 10% of all consumer displays. Color gamut trumps resolution all the way. But neither approaches the tear-inducing beauty of the VPC-Z1X displays. Whatever the tradeoffs, if screen really matters (and, oh, by the way, performance while we're on the subject) there is no comparison between any Mac 13 to the Sony Z11-13. Buy one used or refurbished and kiss the Macs goodbye. No gloss, no 50% colors, 30% brighter, entirely NO CONTEST whatsoever.

Apples have their virtues - gotta love OSX (which I don't) and gotta plan to beat the crap out of the screen/lid (Sony Z is more fragile, but only if you feel the need to bend the lid, lol). Otherwise, you are either an Apple fanboy or you want the best ultraportable you can buy - price no object, get the new Z2; price very much an object, buy the shinking but still available new Z1s on eBay, or an excellent Z1 refurb from Sony, or even a gently used Z1 from eBay or NBR.

Impossible that one seeking the best ultrportable would even look at an MBA when Zs exist in the world. Equally impossible that on OSX devotee would look at anything but the MBA if an ultraportable is the need. Just don't call it the "best ultraportable," just call it "the best Apple ultraportable. Vaio still reigns!!!

 

The screen on the HP sucks miserably. Horrible viewing angles. A friend of mine has one, plus it's not terribly fast. Sorry not a good comparison to the Air.

 

Short of the Thunderbolt port, the new Air 13" has identical specs to all Intel Ultrabook platform designs And there are a strangely gathering number of those The one exception is the Sony Z2 line, which uses full speed i5/i7 CPU, instead of the ULV variants.

 

Holy cow, I clicked on this thread expecting just discussion of a review of a new laptop, not the Thirty Years War.

On one hand, we have people making absurd statements about "their kind" and machines that were "made for their kind." Criminy sakes, we're talking about different brands of consumer goods, not religions or races here.

On the other hand, we've got a comparison between the $2000-$4500 Vaio Z and the $1000-$1800 MacBook Air. Lo and behold, the vastly-more-expensive machine is nicer when you ignore price. But who can really do that?

 

Would you like some popcorn? We should sit back and just watch the fireworks, LOL. It is HONESTLY hilarious watching them bicker back and forth, don't you agree? Ahahaha

 

LoL yeah. I dont mind the apple style as much as I hate the terrbile OS and feel of using the laptop.

Tough times make people reconsider budgets.

As far as throttled performance is concerned thats a load of crap. My thinkpads perform as well as any other similar hardware laptop on the market. In fact I would say that my wifes macbook performs almost as good as my x200s and hers is a 2009 model. Its no comparison to my t400 which its closer in size to and the build quality well it pales in comparison.

Why am I comparing the macbook to my thinkpads? Because its in the same price point. People really need to lay off the "mac is superior to all" mentality because it just isnt true.

The screen resolution debate has gone on forever, but for those of us that have work to do (as you stated) the 1366x768 is not as effective as 1280x800 for most users. Plus you could be lucky like me and have a 1440x900 screen in a 12in thinkpad. On top of the screen the keyboard is atrocious (more of an opinion).

You like your mac and thats fine. But you have to remember there are alot and I mean alot of people that can say similar things you stated but about the macbook air. Kinda like how I did. Now I can admit apple is onto something with the air, but an option for higher resolution and change the darn chicklet keyboard and I would even consider it.

 

Interesting info about pricing of competitors:

Asustek rebuts Intel forecast on low cost of Ultrabooks series - Taipei Times

 

Maybe they are using full voltage cpu instead of the ULV in the MBA?

 

Hands On: Asus UX21 Laptop Takes On the MacBook Air | News & Opinion | PCMag.com

 

Odd that the pricing is coming out that way.

 

Yup, I was trying to insult idiots. If the DM1 is fine for your needs, be happy and move on. Instead, these low-end, farmville playing folks keep coming in and camping in threads for products not targeted at them. The Air, Z, Thinkpads, toughbook ultra lights are all designed for a different category of users.

I came into this thread looking for a real discussion about the new Air. Instead, I see a whine session from basic web browsing users complaining the Air was not a good value. It's like going to the BMW or Lexus show room to get info on their cars and having a crowd of Ford Pintos owners shouting those luxury cars are bad value. It's annoying! You don't see Air or Z owners going into the dm1 threads heckling them do you?

I enjoy both Macs and PCs. Currently, I am using only Macs because my work calls for them. I'm a fan but no fanboy. I dislike seeing haters trolling where they're not invited. The Dull and HP forums exist for these haters. They should stay there. It's a matter of manners, but then haters don't know anything about this "manners" concept.

 

Oh boy, I have an idea which forums these haters will be camping out next. Asus forums, put up the fortifications! They're coming.

 

Hey if Asus can't compete with Apple's Macbook Air on price, considering the substantial profit margins that Apple holds on just about every product, it really makes me wonder if there's a future for the "ultrabook." I see the same recipe for failure that we've seen with
Android 3.0 tablets. If the "knockoff" isn't all that much cheaper than the genuine Apple product, what's the point in buying the knockoff? This is why nothing can touch the iPad in sales. Oh, that, and the fact that I have tried every iPad knockoff I can get my hands on and nothing measures up to the real thing. Maybe something will compete this fall or in the spring of 2012, but nothing so far.

And yes, if an "ultrabook" has the same CPU and the same form factor as the MacBook Air, what is it other than a Windows PC knockoff of a Macbook Air? At least in the eyes of consumers, it's hard not to see it any other way, since absolutely everyone has forgotten about the failed CULV "subnotebook" PCs of 2009 and even forgotten that the Macbook Air wasn't a sales success until the last year.

Good luck to Asus with the UX21/UX31. However, if they can't undercut Apple while making a profit, they shouldn't even bother.

 

Go back to your MySpace.