Apple MacBook Pro 15" with Intel Santa Rosa Review Discussion

Cost probably wouldn't be a major factor. As far as reasons why they wouldn't use it, it's hard to say. If it helps, this article explains HP's reasons for not using it:

http://news.com.com/HP+says+no+to+Intels+Turbo+Memory/2100-1004_3-6188531.html?tag=nefd.top

Mac OS X also doesn't currently have any features that would use it anyway (whether Leopard will is another question).

With as fast as OS X boots up now, I don't think it would be really that necessary anyway.

And I don't think it's so vital for app launching either; I was playing around with the new model at the Apple Store yesterday, and apps like Photoshop CS3 loaded up and were ready to use in like a second, so I don't know how much more it would make a difference anyway.

 

You forgot another advantage the MBP has over Asus, battery life. One of the reviewers of the MBP got 3 hours of use.

 

ahmm... did they ask you for any special paper to give you the student discount price?

 

They asked me for either a student ID or to have me log in to my school e-mail account. I did the latter, and presented a driver's license.

 

The dude got the ASUS G1S 3DMark06 wrong. It should be 4746.

 

I think it came from the NBR review of the G1S:

http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=3728&review=Asus+G1S

Notebook 3DMark 06 Results
Asus G1S (Core 2 Duo T7500 2.20GHz, NVidia 8600M) 3,816 3D Marks

 

Can we get some gaming benchmarks with the reviewed 128MB version?

Preferrably in Windows?

I would like to see the gaming difference between the 128MB vs 256MB 8600m GT.

This would be the only reason to pay the difference in my opinion, otherwise the cheaper version makes more sense considering only minor difference at such a huge cost! This is my only gripe with Apple, taking advantage of the customer "$$$$"

Great looking laptops though! They have that part down.

 

To be fair, I don't think Apple is taking advantage of the customer with the higher priced model. Adding up the difference in cost between a 2.4GHz C2D and 2.2GHz C2D, 256MB VRAM 8600M GT vs 128MB VRAM 8600MGT and 160GB HD vs. 120GB HD, the difference isn't that unreasonable...... the CPU is probably the biggest extra cost, since typically the most powerful CPU's have a significant cost premium.

 

First off, great review - except for one major caveat.

The 3dmark06 scores you quoted were run at 1024x768 (786432 pixels). The benchmarks you used for comparison seemed mostly to be run at the default resolution of 1280x1024 (1310720 pixels). So, the 4674 points it got was in fact comparable to the 4746 points which the G1s recieves at 1024x768. Don't get me wrong, I respect Apple, but it just irks me when reviews quote 3dmark scores which are set at different resolutions - it happens all the time.

 

It seems like it would be best if there was more of a standard agreed upon size then.

Either way, I don't see how the reviewer can be blamed...... the Asus G1S score quoted is from the NBR review. And the only scores they could provide by comparison were run by others, since they couldn't install Windows themselves.

Seems like the Asus G1S review should be updated, or they should post the MBP scores it gets at a similar resolution.

-Zadillo

 

Exactly my point... thats why i said he got the score of the G1s Wrong. so i just told him that the right score at 1024 x 768 is 4746.

 

Eek, we must read! I did NOT do the 3DMark scores, they came from someone else over the Apple & OS X forum, Andrew added them in.

So, until I boot camp this (weeks from now at the earliest) no 3dMark scores are reflective from my MBP.

 

Yeah, although again, someone should update the Asus G1S review then here, or NBR should come up with some standard for which res 3DMark06 scores are going to be run at.

The reviewer here isn't to blame; they simply quoted the score in the Asus G1S review. This seems to be the common practice in every NBR review I've read; the benchmark scores seem to be taken from the NBR reviews posted for the respective laptops.

But if I understand it correctly then, at 1024x768, the Asus G1S and MBP get almost identical scores. Honestly I think that is pretty remarkable, especially given the weight and thickness differences between the two.

 

Yeah!! the new MBP is indeed a beauty, specially with the new 8600 GT 256MB and the LED screen. I would totally get one if it fully supported vista and had 2 buttons on the touchpad.

 

I know, I'm not blaming anybody. And I wholly agree that NBR should have a standard Res for 3dmark.

The problem is, is that the trial version of 06 can only be run at 1280x1024, and many reviewers do not want to spend money to upgrade to the pro version. With such a high res, many laptops, including the MBP, cannot run 3dmark(06) at native. They have to scale down the results to something such as 1280x854, or, in this case, 1024x768. Therefore, rather than a standard, perhaps it could just be mandatory that reviewers state what resolution 3dmark was run at.

 

Yeah. There might not be a good solution to this though; the problem would lie in those comparison charts; they are designed to compare the marks for different machines, but there wouldn't be an easy way to put in there the different resolutions they were run at too.

Would probably be best to only include machines with 3DMark06 run at the same res, in that case.

 

Fair enough.

As far as Vista support, I know Apple did just release Boot Camp 1.3 with updated drivers; it seems like people are running Vista OK now.

Re: 2 buttons on the touchpad; yeah, I don't know if or when Apple will ever do this (at best they might do a similar multitouch thing where it's still one big button but can detect the "right click" when just touching the right portion or something).

For what it's worth, I've actually come to really like the two-finger right-clicking method, specifically because I've come to find it to be fairly natural to just hold two fingers down on the touchpad and then not have to move my thumb, but the click acts as a right click anyway. Going back to PC laptops now, I actually sometimes find it more inconvenient to shift my thumb to the right to right click.

 

Might be my eyes or the camera but the viewing angles actually seem to be pretty poor imo. Not as good as the nc8430 or t60 series. But everything else seems brilliant. Shame it'll cost about >£1400 over here.

Congrats on your first review though

 

Very nice notebook!

I never realised the MBP was now fitted with a nVidia 8M series card. It sure is a competitor to a lot of rival notebook manafacturers.

 

I think "switching" will be the new trend in the notebook world...lol, i just switched and couldnt be happier.

 

I think it's more the camera; when I was testing out viewing angles at the store they seemed just fine. Compared to a T60 I've played around with at MicroCenter, I'd say they seemed a little better in fact (not to mention that the screen was much brighter and more vibrant, I think thanks to the LED-backlighting).

 

Pretty good deal if you are a student. You can get the 2.2 ghz 15" for $1800 and a free 4gb ipod nano.

 

Nice review!

When you get a chance to run your Vista/XP benchmarks if it's not to much trouble, would you mind checking to see what the battery life in Windows is like? The reason I ask is that on Napa based MBP's battery life in Windows is/was horrible (as atleast when I had a MBP, Apple hadn't gotten around to enabling PowerPlay on the X1600 and battery life suffered badly, around 1-2 hours in XP). Would be interesting to see if they've resolved that with the new revision of the MBP and BootCamp.

 

Wow, what a powerhouse.

 

Great review! Although deceiving giving benchmarks about a laptop that costs $500 more (for those who couldn't read.)

Anyhow Rep points for you!

 

I think even for non-students(if u cant get a friendly student to buy for you) can buy it from macmall with $150 rebate. So low end(if u can call that) will cost $1850. Not bad for the specs. I am seriously considering high end 15" Macbook pro (through a friendly student ).Only reason I have not bought is that Leopard would release in 2-3 months and might make MBP even more attractive.

 

I don't suppose anyone has the knowledge right now to comment on the value of getting the 256 model versus the 128mb model? I don't game a lot but I am intensley interested in Shadowrun that is coming out soon, that looks to be Vista/Direct X 10 only, and I want to know if the 128mb 8600GT is going to be enough to run Vista and games like shadowrun well. I can probably save up for the 256mb model if I need to but if 128mb is going to be more than enough for anything I'm going to want to do (which is basically WoW (via bootcamp as my copy is PC) and maybe a few newer games like Shadow run, then I'd rather save the money and get the 128 model (as I have no need for the extra CPU power and can upgrade the HD for what 80$?)

Thanks!

 

Does this mean that the iMac has an upgradable video card?

 

Well, the iMac uses MXM graphics cards, so technically speaking at least the GPU in it could be upgraded.

 

Well, Leopard is still 6 months away (October 2007 release).

Thanks for the tip about MacMall. Between the $150 MIR and no sales tax, that's not bad at all. You'd actually get a slightly better price than $1799 plus typical sales tax (here in Virginia it would cost a student $1888.95 for example).

The $70 in MIR's that MacMall offers on Parallels is pretty nice too for people who would want to buy Parallels too; lets you get it essentially for $10.

-Zadillo

 

nice review!

I really like that wallpaper you have with the fish, the one on the iPhone. Where can i get it?

I really like the keyboard. I hope Sony adds something similar in their future model.

Ch28Kid

 

Got my MBP today. 2.4Ghz Glossy. Jeez this is a huge improvement over my old TiBook. I'm in love.

 

I went to an Apple store after work yesterday to check out the new macbook pros, but they didn't have any on display yet - and didn't know when they would. They said they didn't have any new 17" mbp's - only 15" mbp's - and were old to wait until they had both in stock to put them out. So I didn't get to see the new LED screens in person yet.

I was wondering if anyone thinks that there might be a surprise announcement of Leopard at WWDC. Some of the rumor sites are posting the end-of-life release dates and new version release dates for the previous versions of OSX. It looked like there was only a couple weeks between releasing the last iteration of an OSX version (say jaguar or panther) and the next version. It looks like the last version of Tiger just came out in 10.4.9, so perhaps we'll see Leopard sooner than October?

Also, I'm new to the Mac scene and don't even own one yet - although I'm looking to pick up a mbp in the near future. Would mac be likely to offer the new 200GB 7200rpm HDs in the near future? I've seen them on offer elsewhere and would be interested in one with that config, but don't want to void the warranty by adding it myself.

Thanks!
Nikolaus

 

great review, i think there is going to be a very large jump in Mac users with Apples latest release.

 

that is a wallpaper built int OSX, i'm sure you could get it from a friend with a Mac. or have someone post it up.

 

I doubt that Leopard is going to come out in final form any time soon.

Remember, WWDC is going to be the first time ANYONE has seen the full featureset of Leopard; part of the point of WWDC is to give developers their preview copies of it and give them time to start developing for it and updating apps for it. It would be almost impossible if they try and push Leopard out in final form any time soon.

Having said that, there are some rumors that it could come out sooner than October..... like maybe in September; the idea there would be that the October date was picked so that they could release it earlier and generate some good will. I don't know if there's anything to it.

So much of Leopard is a question mark right now; what are the "secret features" that Jobs hinted at when Leopard was first announced last year? Will they include things like a major revision of the Finder or other new abilities? Or was it just hype?

We should have a clearer picture next week after the WWDC presentation.

 

Im not sure I agree that it is worth a $500 premium, Maybe a $200-300 dollar premium. But Mac markets there laptops as more high end, intern demanding more of a premium for it. I just wish pricing was a little closer to PC pricing. Like the $2,500 should really be worth around $2,000 and so on for the lower models.

Anyway off topic, I really would like to purcahse one of these!
Can anyone give some gaming benchmarks on this (128MB) vs (256MB)????
Maybe some Open GL or Direct X 9 gaming?
Any Gamers at all out there?

If not the lower model is fine for the everyone else in regard to performance if you dont game.

Game benchmarks please!

 

I don't know. Spec-wise, the closest comparable machine right now to the $2499 MBP is the $1999 Asus G1S.

I would agree with your point that the MBP is $500 too expensive, except that the weight difference and thickness and LED backlighting I think do account for this difference - even Asus charges a premium for their thinner and lighter high-end machines.

I just don't think the pricing is that far off.

 

My only problem like was already stated was that you can't create a more custom build, I'd love a 2.0Ghz santa rosa CPU with a 256mb graphics card, it would cut the cost down and give me exactly what I want in a Mac, instead I have to pay several hundred extra for a 2.4ghz processor I don't need or want, or get a 128mb graphics card I don't want (and may not be able to do what I need it to do in a year or more) to keep the price down. I know this fits into the Mac "it just works" ethos, but I think it probably kills some of their sales too, I'd have bought one already, but right now I'm fighting with myself over how to get the extra money or to suffer with the worse gpu (though someone mentioned it might be upgradeable so once the warranty is void and the gpu is outdated you could upgrade it for a few hundred and bring some extra life to your machine)

 

LOL, You got your 15min of Tech Fame.

GREAT REVIEW. My next notebook will be a MAC, but I'm waiting until Leopard comes out OR this Holiday Season.

 

Fair enough.

It isn't so much about the "it just works" philosophy as Apple's attempt to keep their product lines fairly simple, and not have dozens of different possible configurations.

Items like the CPU and GPU are "static"; Apple just isn't in the business of making completely customizable configs (although heck, there's only one Asus G1S config I'm aware of too; it's not like I can custom order a cheaper Asus G1S with only a 2.0 GHz CPU and a 512MB 8600M GT if I wanted to).

-Zadillo

 

Also, the ability of running both MacOS and Windows is a feature that is not usually included when analyzing the cost/benefit of purchasing Apple hardware. Further, the inclusion of a set of default and additional apps that one can and is happy to actually use (versus the default apps on a Windows computer) also is a value+add for the Mac. Features like these don't necessarily trump hardware differences, however, they should not be overlooked.

 

Yeah, I didn't want to get into the software side of things, since to some degree that becomes more subjective - for people who like OS X, OS X alone makes any price premiums worth it.

I'm trying to focus more on arguing about the merits of the hardware itself, outside of software capabilities.

 

Great review! Just dress up for the picture next time. lol.

 

I was going for that ... ya know ... switcher look.


:grampa voice: Ya darn Mac hippies!

 

nice of endgadget to basically rip off the review, at least you almost got proper credit, haha.

notebookreview.com>endgadget

 

Bah no hate to Engadget, they just did what they do best! That of course being somewhat sarcastic journalism couped with poor coverage of other people's material to make there own look better.

I still like em.

 

4 hours on battery life at Half brightness for such a powerful notebook, how is that possible?

My W3J can get to 2.5 hours, with Brightness down to 20%, cpu performance down to 25%, and just wifi on, and no optical drive attached!

 

Maybe the LED backlight for the screen does make a big difference.

 

It is kinda crazy I must admit. I calibrated my battery and even saw a small performance increase to boot. I'm on half brightness, 1 tick of the backlit keyboard, with firefox/adium/(random apps i'm testing) and 79% battery shows me with 3 hours and 49 minutes remaining.