Apple MacBook First Thoughts Review (pics, specs)

good point, i didn't consider that. it's an important point mentioning that many notebooks use the underside to vent heat, the MacBook has no such thing.

 

Yeah, I actually did this and set it to "battery life / energy saver" so the processor clocked down but same results.

I now think there's something more than just heat, the MacBook crashes within about 20 minutes of booting every time whether it's hot or not.

I bought it at a store in Ohio and will have to return it to a store in New York -- we'll see how that goes. My father actually returned an iPod to a different store than purchased from and had no problems doing so. But I'm guessing stock of the MacBook in NYC is going to be non-existent because of the sheer number of people here and this is a more expensive thing. Man, I hope I don't have to ship it back to Ohio and then wait for a replacement from there.

 

When buying a premium product this is certainly not something one should be forced to do, and the average user certainly would not want to do this. I think the better solution is just to take it back and demand a product that was manufactured properly and doesn't require "re-manufacturing" on the part of the the user.

 

Agreed. I wouldn't tolerate this from any manufacturer. I had been a consistent Mac user (although I've almost always had a desktop PC as well) for almost 17 years up until the day I purchased my N3530 and never seen quality control this bad from an Apple product, with the exception of the G3 iBook debacle a couple of years ago which they quickly moved to rectify (well, that and the stinker Performa from the dark Spindler days. That was just plain bad). They have typically always been very meticulous in their testing, design, and manufacturing. It's very dissapointing to see them almost blowing the opportunity to win a larger audience with the Intel switch by falling down on the quality of the end product. Hopefully these are just temporary growing pains from the platform switch. Perhaps they need to "think different" about how they design notebooks instead of trying to stick so closely to the old designs.

Whatever the reason, I hope they resolve it soon because my wife's birthday is quickly approaching and she is way overdue for a new Mac notebook.

 

And it looks like you're not alone with the heat issue, Andrew. Reviewer over at Ars Technica showed his running at 82C!

 

I just got the black Macbook from Apple today. I've only used it for 30 minutes after setup for just websurfing and already it is uncomfortably hot. Andrew, you are not the only one experiencing this issue. Also, some of the keys, especially the spacebar feels like it's getting stuck when you type with it and it's really starting to annoy me. I don't know if I'm the only one experiencing this problem.

The new glossy screen looks great and I'm surprised Apple hasn't done this sooner. It feels weird carrying around a notrbook that is slightly heavier than my Sony Vaio S460. I can actually feel the difference in the weight. I need to play around with this thing more and then install Windows XP on it next. Also need to do some benchmarking too.

I'll have a full review on this version of the MacBook sometime this week!

 

It doesn't have a glossy screen does it? doesn't look like it in the photos.

 

Yup, it has a glossy screen.

 

http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.php?t=295925

^^^ That's why everyone's macbook and macbook pro is getting so hot. There should be less than a pea size application of the stuff.

The question is, who dropped the ball? It doesn't look like a quality control issue on asustek's part. Apple made a minor error in their service manual. I wonder if someone meant to write a 2mm^3 application of thermal paste, but accidentally wrote 20mm^3.

Don't think about opening the computer unless you don't care about your warranty. It sucks some people are going to be out several days (maybe over a week), for a relatively simple 30 minute operation someone could totally do on their own. Shows how easily a perfect product can be nitpicked to death (rightfully so) over such a minor issue.

Of course, launch product buyers are guinny pigs...and should understand that.

 

So the issues are the exact same?

After the major heat issues with the early MacBook Pros one would think they had learned to check for this sort of thing...

EDIT:

Here's a link to those commercials for those who haven't seen them, right on Apple's site.

http://www.apple.com/getamac/ads/

 

The Apple mouse has a right click button, it just looks like one big button. It's actually pretty cool. It's got one of those cool scroll buttons that kinda works like a trackball for scrolling.

 

I am a long-time Mac user and do Mac/PC troubleshooting -- I have seen the kernel panic problem just a few times in OS X, and in each case it did not show up right away, but seemed to get worse, and in each case, the problem was a bad stick of memory.

In some cases, the hardware check CD that comes with Macs was able to find the bad RAM, but in a few cases, the only way to troubleshoot was to swap RAM sticks in and out and test.

Your MacBook should have come with a hardware test CD or DVD - it has a short and a long memory test procedure. Better would be if you had a pair extra. But, since it is doubtful both of the stock 256 sticks are bad, you should try just taking them out one at a time and running the computer.

Apple recommends keeping them in matched pairs for best performance, and this particularly applies to the integrated graphics iBooks, but it will run with only 256, and it will actually run pretty well. I would give it a half hour test with each stick one at a time and see what happens. If you can document your test and present it to an Apple store, they'll be quite likely to just give you the replacement DIMM instead of sending the MacBook off to repair.

That's my recommendation. Good luck.

P.S. to whomever-- all desktop Macs have come with a "mighty mouse" for a year or so now. It looks like a single-button mouse and works that way by default, but the user can enable a sort of virtual right-mouse button-- it senses your finger 'clicking' there and works as a right button. Pretty amazing. Not as reliable as a true multi-button mouse, but quite versatile. Single-button mice are better for new users and young users (I have spent the past few years teaching K-8 computers). And, to those of you who've wondered, you can plug any old multi-button USB scroll mouse into a Mac with OS X, and it just works. No need to use a driver unless you want to. The buttons are recognized and the scroll works great.

 

Yeah, it baffles me how their mice and two finger touch pads are such a huge secret. Esp. the touchpad, it's crazy intuitive.

 

It seems like these people aren't too fond of your preview Abax, I registered and posted hoping to clear some of the issues they had with it, I'm awaiting to see how much of an impact I made..

http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.php?t=296034

 

I guess I just don't like anything that places fashion over functionality. if it has 2 buttons, then make them 2 buttons.

 

Not sure what you're referring to-- the two finger on the trackpad click to get the contextual menu or the so-called mighty mouse and its flexible configuration. But in either case, I don't believe it's "fashion." Good UI design, Apple believes, and I concur, makes all functions accessible to the left-button (or standard click). The right-click is a contextual menu, shortcuts to items, but not items not reachable through menus.

Good UI design also grows with the user. I have also taught old folks how to use computers through Seniornet at one of their learning centers. Most will never grow to understand the use for, or need the use of, the right button. It's just a barrier to their comfort with a computer, because when they accidentally click it, something pops up which they don't expect. In their effort to correct the action, they often end up actually clicking a contextual menu item. Sometimes that means a file is deleted.

Apple's might mouse actually has four buttons and a omni-directional scroll ball. In its standard configuration, it's a one-button mouse and can have functions enabled to do whatever the user understands and prefers. That is good design, and good function, but not necessarily 'fashion.'

Same goes for the setting to enable the contextual menu by holding two fingers on trackpad and clicking. Not set that way by default, but easily configurable by those who care to use it.

 

Exactly, ToeKnee. I actually find the two finger touch pad on my Mac EASIER than moving my thumb/finger over/down to hit the right button on my Asus, and that's not even including how cool the 2 finger scrolling is. The Apple Mighty Mouse is also one of the most comfortable mice I've ever used and it's not at all strange or fashion oriented as far as the right click goes. It just needs a longer cord.

I wonder if people are ever going to start trying things before they trash them.

 

If you activate the Finder, then select Help -> Mac Help from the menu, that will launch the help application. If you enter "screenshot", that will bring up links on how to take screen shots in OS X.
Here's the info for non-Mac users who are interested:

Take a picture of the whole screen
⌘-Shift-3

Take a picture of part of the screen
⌘-Shift-4, then drag to select the area you want in the picture.

Take a picture of a window, a menu, the menu bar, or the Dock.
Press ⌘-Shift-4, then press the Space bar. Move the pointer over the area you want so that it's highlighted, then click. To drag to select the area instead, press the Space bar again. To cancel, press Escape.

 

Huh? You're kidding, right?

They do not compete. Neither of those models has the feature set of the MacBook. Neither of them can run both Windows and Mac OS X like the MacBook.

Why not? It can run Windows natively if you really feel that's somehow a necessity...

You apparently didn't notice that the moment you drag a volume, the Trash icon is replaced by an eject symbol...

The built-in Mac Help has a whole, easily accessed page on that. As you've seen in this discussion, there are many ways. One that hasn't been mentioned is to use the included Preview application to provide very flexible options including timed screenshots and extensive file format
selection.

Unlikely. You may need to hold the button down for 5 seconds or more.

You're right. That is absolutely not expected. Kernal panics are most commonly caused by bad RAM, but you may have just been unlucky enough to acquire a defective machine.

Thank you for the quick preview. I look forward to your full review.

 

Actually, they can run OS X, that is the SZ and S6000, though it's not entirely legal due to Apple's EULA on their operating system.

He said the Mac OS itself wouldn't, not that the macbook wouldn't, he knows he can run windows natively.

It's still a little silly when a physical eject button would not have been hard to add.

 

As someone pointed out, there is an eject button. All Apple portables have had one for many years. It's always the upper right button on the keyboard. Has the eject symbol on it. I think he just hasn't found it for some reason.

See his own pic at http://www.notebookreview.com/assets/12241.jpg

 

I have never in my life seen so much uninformed opinion (no eject key, no right click, no way to resize windows etc) in one place. Either these people have never used a Mac (in which case, they should comment with circumspection) or they are deliberately spreading disinformation.

The wisdom of publishing a review of a system the day you receive it, especially when you don't know how to use the OS, is questionable. Once you've learned how to use OSX you may be embarrassed by some of the comments you've made here.

Peter

 

My mistake, I've used a Mac for maybe 3 hours in my life total, my uncle's PowerBook, and that must have slipped my mind.

It was not a review, it was a first thoughts preview, when he wrote the review he had only had 24 hours of experience with it and said that several times. The actual review will come in a few weeks, this was mainly a showcase of how it looks and some critique on the design. Andrew posted it because many people wanted to know more about the new MacBook.

 

fair enough... one thing to note, too, is that Macs use different types of drives than many/most other notebooks. It's a slot loading drive, nothing pops out but the disk.

As have you & others. It's important to keep that in mind. There are hotheads on both ends of the spectrum getting their undies in a bundle about this. It was a "first look" and that first look encountered some problems.

I do wish he'd post back to let us know any progress. But, as I have said, I am sure this is a hardware issue, not a software issue.

T

 

Kernel Panics are OSX's bluescreen, same outcome, same hard, dirty restart with system errors ("orphaned nodes" in OSX speak) needing cleaning up (very DOS-like: typing "fsck -f" repeatedly in a console screen). I've seen far too many OSX kernel panics, not a single one caused only by bad RAM.

Just by inserting an empty PCMCIA card would trigger one, 9 out of 10 attempts from OS10.2.3 all the way through 10.3.9, 14 updates totalling 18 months, a known issue still unresolved, then I quit Macs entirely. Wouldn't be suprised if it still happens in Tiger. I required reliable PCMCIA functionality and finally just gave up.

I've even witnessed a kernel panic happen when the (Apple puck) USB mouse was plugged into a brand new iMac (with factory default RAM).

Heat absolutely can and will cause a kernel panic running the CPU close to boiling temperature, just like XP will bluescreen. At least either are better than literally melting down.

I suggest any potential Mac switcher simply visit MacFixIt.com daily for any one single week to read the ongoing stream of new Tiger issues continously popping up no Mac fanboy will ever acknowledge. Is there an equal XP new problems daily reporting web site anywhere? Do XP updates consistently cause hardware or function problems for enough users to immediately get reported and discussed in similar fashion? None of the dozens of XP updates in the past two years have caused a single issue for me. Certainly never dead firewire or USB or sound or video that I've ever read about.

Next visit dealmac.com or MacNN.com user forums to observe the common levels of help one can expect when the problems do occur. Remember, with a Mac you will be solving problems alone without much guidance besides the "genius bar" or via the web.

Unfortunately, I've found the Windows-side of user-to-user support far more expert, civil and less shrill. And, don't dare ever mention anything related to Windows unless prepared for a verbal assault equaled only by rabid Linux fans.

 

everyone was waiting for apple to stumble on this one. did anyone notice that apple didn't have as many hardware issues before this craptel hardware migration. this macbook crashed (like more probably will) because it got hot. it had nothing to do with os x. it was just the middle man. now I do think it is somewhat apples fault for rushing these things out with all new hardware. they weren't indestructable before, but with the other hardware they were alot better than whats out at the moment. heat issues have nothing to do with os x. come on guys.

 

when it came to xp updates and adobe programs the answer was yes they do cause crazy problems just like the mac guys are going though. video editing, constant night mare of new plugins and patches almost nightly at school. we had to scap cameras entirely because they just never worked on a new xp build. also, your on your own with support and windows too. your ignorant. all platforms are fine in their respects. if all you do is ms office windows would be your gig.

 

valiant effort, Reize. you get props.
and excellent preliminary overview abaxter. your ethos remains untarnished in my eyes. i hope you get your problem cleared up.

 

Okay, well I did get the MacBook exchanged which is good. The folks at the Apple Store were very good about it. I'm using the new one right now and no crashes (Kernel panic).

It does however run hot. My girlfriend is a Mac user and has verified it runs hotter than her PowerBook G4. I know the manual says this should not be used on the lap, but to me that's silly since I use a ThinkPad on my lap often and when in a crunch, say at the airport, there's no other option but to place it in your lap. Sitting on the couch with a laptop is a favorite past time as well, I couldn't do it with the MacBook -- too hot.

Sorry if I offended any Mac users, it's not my aim. We have two more people that are longtime Mac users submitting reviews next week so maybe their opinion will be taken better. Again, I only published this since I wanted to get a first impression out there and focused on the design -- not the OS. I stated I don't know the OS and only implied I need to learn and thanks to many helpful posts and emails all those little things I'm used to doing in Windows I am now learning.

 

I haven't used a Mac in 6 years, I stated that.

I hope I am embarassed, that would be a positive thing.

 

For someone who claims such experience with Macs, I'd think you'd know the OS is "OS X" not "OSX". In any case, kernel panics do sometimes cause disk errors, but not always. Booting into single user mode (not a "console screen") to run fsck is not something regular users ever need do. If they desire, booting from the software restore DVD and running the Disk Utility is quite a bit simpler and accomplishes the same thing. Kernel panics in later versions of OS X, just like BSODs in XP, are much less frequent than with older OS versions.

I've had two different Powerbooks since OS X came out and have used PCMCIA cards extensively, and while it's true the few kernel panics I've had have all been related to inserted or ejecting them, it's more on the line of 1 in a 100 than 9 out of 10. And I don't believe I've had one since I upgraded to Tiger.

Since Powerbooks were the only Macs that ever came with PCMCIA slots, and Powerbooks are now extinct, there is no Mac for you anyway. The MacBook Pros use a new type of slot. Neither the MacBook in question nor the iBook line it replaced have PCMCIA slots. So what's the point?

Well, then you're dating yourself here. The last iMac that came with a puck mouse was the iMac G3, and that was replaced by the iMac G4 and "pro" mouse about four years ago. At that time, if OS X came on the iMac G3 at all, it was not booted by default (OS 9 was), it was OS X 10.1, and really only on the HD for adventuresome to try out. I'll admit, OS X was not ready for prime-time until 10.3 Panther. 10.2 Jaguar was pretty stable but lacked critical features and capabilities.

Yes, perhaps, but he said the kernel panics were then starting to happen shortly after starting up the computer, before it was really hot.

I have found that anyone using the derogatory term "fanboy" is a partisan themselves. It's really unnecessary in polite conversation. No regular user of any OS would claim they never have problems worthy of posting in a forum somewhere. MacFixit has a lot of great people willing to help others with their problems. Big deal.

I'm not sure you want to go down that road. I'll bet we could find many times the number of daily postings in various forums for Windows problems. But it proves nothing anyway, as there are many times the number of Windows computers out there. And there are a number of examples in the past few years of Windows updates raising havoc for some users, to the point where enterprise admins disable automatic updating and will only push out updates after they've been thoroughly tested with critical apps. Updates causing problems for *some* users is a problem of all operating systems. Again, your point will prove nothing.

That's really untrue and misguided. The Mac forums at MacFixit and Apple.com are quite well 'staffed' by helpful people, and the "genius bar" at Apple Stores is a service you don't get from Dell, HP, eMachines, etc. To say a Mac user has to solve problems alone is hyperbolic.

yes, that is surely something unfortunate. funny one.

Rabid fans of any platform can be a pain. Mac fans are no worse. Simplistic chants like "Get a Mac!" are no worse than something like "Remember, with a Mac you will be solving problems alone without much guidance besides the "genius bar" or via the web."

 

Well, in regards to security there's no biometrics like there is on my ThinkPad and the control I have with the ThinkPad Active Protection System for the hard drive data protection is extremely robust and a mature software package. Apple isn't for enterprise users, they'd be wasting their time to supply biometrics and the same level of data proteciton security software. I agree that virus / trojan wise the Apple is of course more safe. I was vague on what I meant there.

The Sony SZ has dedicated graphics, a lot of people in our forums bought it for that reason. If you're saying that they don't compete due to the OS not being the same, well, then nothing can compete with a Mac I guess.

I can't use a MacBook fulltime mostly because I'm programming using Microsoft technologies (.NET, SQL Server etc.) which I could do by booting to Windows but it wouldn't be as convenient (I don't think). The main reason I couldn't though is because I also use a Verizon EVDO wireless card and depend on it very much for accessing this website I run (like right now) and the MacBook and MacBook Pro don't offer a PCMCIA slot or Verizon EVDO support (and vice versa, Verizon offers no software or such a solution for a Mac). A lot of business users (such as field sales people) and other highly mobile workers really do need the EVDO card solution and this therefore makes a Mac unviable for them.

thanks for the comments.

 

I'm blind as a bat

I kept looking for an eject button next to the optical drive and missed the fact that 2 inches a way was a keyboard button. I did remember the dragging and dropping the cd icon to the trash was eject from my time using Macs back in college so that's the route that I took.

 

On behalf of all Mac users, I apologize for the idiotic posters like Peter here who did not read your "first look" report. You have nothing to be embarassed about. I respect your humility.

 

Run, don't walk to the Parallels website http://www.parallels.com/en/products/workstation/mac and download the beta of their fantastic software to run Windows virtually is OS X-- I installed an earlier beta on my niece's MacBook Pro, and it was astonishingly fast and cool. You may need more than the 512 MB stock memory to run this "well" though.

That's exactly why I will not get a MacBook but will get a MBP this year. I do not use EDVO, but I will soon, and EDVO is coming to the ExpressCard/34 that MBP uses-- see this site:
http://www.evdoinfo.com/Tips/PC_5220/MacBook_Pro_and_EVDO_20060111671/

Regards, T

 

I'm with ToeKnee. Abaxter, you are a true gentleman. I'm sorry to see you've had to suffer slings and arrows for writing about your experience. Some Mac users are so conditioned by baseless Apple attacks that occur at other websites (the kind that never get retracted after being proven wrong), that they fire back without reading carefully or considering the source.

I'm glad to see you've updated the preview with the news of your successful exchange, and am looking forward to hear about your experience with OS X in due time. BTW, and I'm sure you've thought about this as well, you should consider a Core 2 Duo-based MacBook Pro when they come out (maybe next month!). As a 15" full-featured laptop with an Express Card slot at the same weight as the MacBook Pro, that may be a better fit for you in the long run. And hopefully by then Apple would have worked out a better compromise between using the fan and letting the computer get hot. A MBP will cost more than the MacBook, but it could possibly be the only computer you ever need, for OSX or Windows.

 

The Sony Puppy will solve that:

http://www.mobileplanet.com/product.asp?code=120944

Check out the MacBook's Sudden Motion Sensor system:

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=300781

http://www.evdoinfo.com/Tips/PC_5220/MacBook_Pro_and_EVDO_20060111671/

 

I agree. It was a well written review (preview...). I think all the mistakes made by Abaxter during the review process made the review much more legitimate to the average consumer than someone who has used Mac's all their lives.

It's obvious Apple is trying to pull over as many Windows consumers as possible. Seeing as the Macbook is consumer grade, many of the buyers are going to be fresh converts. I think people would like to know how intuitive OS X really is. It's one thing for a Mac guru to tell you how fluid the environment is, but to be faced with simple dilemmas like trying to eject a cd can really put some people off. There definately are some people who really don't care about Mac's or its unique operating system enough to take the time and learn the nuances that make OS X a completely different world.

Whether it was intentional or not, Abaxter did an excellent first step in giving an honest, laymans review of what really is a fisherprice, mainstream laptop. The macbook was designed for the average joe...in some ways, the review and expectations of the laptop should be treated that way...imo.

 

The iMac that kernel panic'd was actually a G5 model less than a year ago.

When I bought my Mac I literally knew no one else using one. CompUSA (pre Apple stores) was less than useless. Everything I learned and all problem solving was via web forums. With a3% user base something one should keep in mind if in similar situation.

Most Windows users would be shocked that single user mode (about as friendly as DOS) would ever need to be invoked running OS X. After every kernel panic I ever experienced there were system errors that single user mode detected and ran the system repair. Occasionally several passes were required to complete the task. I wouldn't want to run OS X with those level errors unaddressed, personally.

I was/am one of the tireless helpers at the great MacFixIt forums with over 300 hundred posts. I never engaged in any discussions other than helping out. My +100 posts here have always been with the same approach. Another great OS X site is MacOSXHints.com, although quite technical for new users. Just don't mention Windows.

The whole reason for my cautionary points about OS X was to add a little balance to the notions that OS X would end all Windows users problems they may have had by getting drawn into the "it just works" mantra. Its really more marketing than literal reality. OS X can be devilish to resolve issues.

The "repair permissions" myth is a perfect example of the cloudy situation users will find themselves in. And Apple Support (either in-store or on phone) will predictably advise a full reinstall as the typical "solution." Again, hardly the infallible operating system promise.

Mac "fanboys" can be exactly that, blindly perpetuating the rock solid OS without issues notion while ignoring the obvious contradictory problems one can actually encounter. Particularly when anything Windows gets brought up. They will always proclaim that all Windows users are morons without common sense. Windows to them equates to weekly reinstalls. They certainly have never heard of XP installs with six months uptime or a Windows server with four years running without a restart. They would claim its impossible to maintain their position, facts be damned. That to me is a fanboy, one will find large numbers at the Mac forums originally mentioned. The help can be great, its just best to "drink the KoolAid" (inside reference to the Steve Jobs true hyperbole, like a large press conference rollout for a $300 boombox and $100 pouch recently).

I actually like both OS X and XP, neither has been particularly problematic for me. But the constant, emphatic declaration of OS X superiority and the issue-free expectations promise needs a little balance. The reality isn't very hard to uncover just with some healthy skepticism.

With the total hardware control Apple has their laptops should run COOLER than equal Windows competition, not so hot that actually using one on a lap is out of the question.

And this heat issue has been plaguing Apple laptops far longer than the recent hardware switch. The PowerBook G4 has since 2002 run hot also, sizzling in the last releases. So much so that several patches were released to address the heat. I wouldn't bet against similar fixes for the MacBooks coming.

Staying up-to-date runnng OS X is a good idea. The updates are frequent and usually fix something important for some users, sometimes all. Security updates have been very regular lately, some addressing gigantic vunerabilities. For example, any file with the .jpg extension added would have been just opened in OS X without the patch recently fixing that hole. Better to know than assume or be blindly told otherwise.

Its ironic that a two year old major update to XP (not bad for a five year old OS getting just two) gets cited for the example of OS problems when in the same five year period OS X had four complete overhauls (each at $130). And the transition from one cat to the next was not pretty for more than a few users. The Panther firewire debacle for example.

Then there's the arbitrary hardware minimums with each new OS X version. Very annoying if your Mac model gets the cutoff without complicated shareware workarounds. Imagine the howls if XP SP2 had shutout permanently older hardware still running original XP fine.

Macs are great when shiny and new with the latest software. Two years later, one is expected to buy newest hardware loaded with newest OS. Four years later, forget it, use what you have. There's no such thing as six year old legacy hardware still getting any OS support including all current updates. Hardware life cycles can be breathtakingly short.

This being primarily a Windows based forum there's little need to state the obvious that Windows has its share of problems. But so does every OS available. And the hardware running it.

 

To be clear, the first paragraph of my post was not aimed at you but at opinions appearing in the replies.

Good luck on your journey.

Peter

 

Kindly explain what is 'idiotic' about my post. I read his 'first look' shortly after it was posted.

Characterising someone as an idiot on the basis of one post smacks of emotionalism.

Apologising on my behalf is presumptious and not required. I doubt you're a spokesman for all Mac users.

Peter

 

Thanks T, you're being extremely helpful here. I will certainly try out the parallels software.

 

I see. Well, you wrote it had the "puck" mouse, and those have been gone for a number of years now. The iMac G4s came with the optical pro mouse, the iMac G5s started out with the optical pro and migrated to the "mighty mouse" (dumb name, cool mouse).

Can't help you with the first part. I guess in your shoes I might have purchased what everyone else was using if I needed a support system. CompUSSR's Apple section is often terrible, I agree.

What's wrong with that? It's a great way to learn. Most of what I learn new about troubleshooting both Macs and Windows are from web sites and web forums.

The actual home user share is larger than that. The 3% number that is bandied about counts all the Windows computers bought for corporate setting workstations, cash registers, hospital nurse stations (6-7 PCs per station) and Windows-based manufacturing and inventory control systems, etc. etc. etc. While I don't know what the home installed base number is, it's certainly larger than the overall market share.

That's not true. As I wrote before, you need never invoke single user mode. Booting from the CD or DVD that comes with the Mac and running Disk Utility in a GUI accomplishes the same thing.

OK, whatever. I would submit they cause far fewer problems than you're insinuating. The journaled file system is very efficient at maintaining order.

I was with you until the last there-- I have never encountered any Windows hostility at MacOSXHints.com.

I use and troubleshoot both OSes on a daily basis. I have never seen 'it just works' as anything but marketing or a general statement. If someone is high on any OS, who cares? It's mindless bashing of other OSes I don't like (and I suppose if you're hypersensitive, you might take 'it just works' to imply that Windows doesn't and by extension be offended, but come on, let's be adults, even if others cannot be).

What's the myth? It sometimes works as a method of troubleshooting.

That is also the standard response in Windows troubleshooting, only an "archive and install" on OS X will save all your preferences and settings and move them back in after your re-install, so you're pretty much back where you started. Reinstalling Windows means having to reinstall almost all your applications. It's a royal pain. And I'm sorry if you disagree, but many of my clients come to me because they've been told to do that. In most cases, I am able to find a way to fix the problem without reinstalling, but it takes often several hours of work. Sometimes it's very quick. But I am amazed at how Dell, in particular, shoots out the "reinstall Windows" recommendation so quickly. They don't want to spend the time to troubleshoot with you. And I understand that to some extent-- they don't make the OS. I have NOT had that problem with Apple, but I'll believe you if you say that's your experience.

Yeah, you have an axe to grind. Just get it out. Fanboys are fanboys, be they Mac, Windows, Linux, gamers, non-gamers, etc. I tried to set that aside before.

I haven't seen any in this forum. Just folks trying to help Abaxter with his first foray into MacBook. His unit had a hardware issue. If MacBooks were all having kernel panics due to heat, we'd be hearing about it. I saw six of them lined up at an Apple Store last night. They were getting heavy use and no sign of a kernel panic.

They don't make many of the components, including the processor, so "total hardware control" is again hyperbolic. Making laptops more powerful while keeping heat down is an issue for all manufacturers. It's inherent in the form factor. It doesn't bother me. I have a nice USB laptop cooler that cost me $10 at geeks.com.

yes yes, not a stretch. Though I think the word "plaguing" is a bit extreme. I know a lot of people with Apple laptops. Not many complain about heat. They might get hot in heavy use, but the users expect that of a powerful machine, perhaps.

Staying up to date on any OS is a good idea.

It's important to note that these vulnerabilities are repaired before there are exploits discovered in the wild. Yes, always try to improve and look for exploits. There always will be with any OS. I am trying to see your point.

Go forth an prosper...

 

I love how passionate mac people are. It is great to see such an active topic!

These heat issues are quite alarming. They are not that new. Even my old G4 TiBook was uncomfortably hot.

 

you mean ignorant? with any other laptop brand "overheating" would be considered a faulty machine, and would replaced under warranty.

you would think that for the "apple premium" one pays pays for apple hardware, you wouldn't be getting a flimsy-feeling, overheating, piece of junk.

neverind the operating system that treats like you're a total moron. i guess that just comes down to personal preference.

 

There's a difference between 'hot' and 'overheating.' It was not determined that this MacBook was overheating. It was just replaced. It might still run hot, but with a 2 Ghz dual core processor, I think it's worth the power.

which one was flimsy?

 

OK, I apologize about the word idiotic. I had a few Mike's Hard Lemonades under my belt. Your post was nothing more than absurd and hyperbolic ("I have never in my life seen so much uninformed opinion.")

Well, in my defense, I did not characterize you as an idiot, rather just the adjective 'idiotic.' The difference can be difficult to discern, I understand, but there is a difference. See above. But I was intrigued by your use of the word "emotionalism." I didn't understand what you meant, so I googled the word ( http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=define:+emotionalism&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8). Nope, still don't understand what you meant.

I do take a lot on myself, but you're right on that point. I don't speak for all Mac users. I just think it's easier to apologize on your behalf than to wait for you to do it yourself. My apologies to you for presuming you might be apologetic.

 

ToeKnee,

The fairly serious OS X security issues yet addressed have been mentioned at O'Grady's Powerpage web site (IIRC). Its a good site for digging below the boiler plate Apple news. Yes, he's the one Apple is suing over leaked information (about a music accessory never marketed).

I was very disappointed reading the Windows related discussions around last year or so at MacOSXHints. The level of dialogue seemed particularly biased and misinformed at such high level forums.

"Fsck" was the system cure all two or three years back. I thought Disk Utility didn't fix the kernel panic node errors, that's news to me.

All Power PC hardware was basically exclusive for Apple. They designed the laptops with the poor heat transfer, no one else did. The obsession with 1" thickness carried through while CPU mhz soared seemed the root cause to me.

My trigger hotbutton use of "fanboy" gutter talk was very intentional to address the several such posts prior.

I hope your passionate dialogue with me won't be the end of your new arrival here. There's endless support questions needing answers here and experts are greatly appreciated in the other forums.

In the two years I've been around here there always has been near reverence (or at the least intense curiosity) about Macs. I've always kept my opinion quiet until this discussion. Nothing I've stated isn't true (at least factually), all the prior history (some hopefully not to be repeated) needs sharing for informed users to digest as chosen. At the least, the original subject (kernel panics) has been well addressed.

I'll still run fsck after one always (sorry, couldn't resist .

 

There you see, you can express an opinion without resorting to personal abuse (from behind the cloak of anonimity) if you put your mind to it. Yes, I concede there was hyperbole but I won't hide behind the excuse of lemonade.

Ho humm word games. Might have been better if you'd tried a dictionary, but I'm sure you knew that: "...a tendency to respond emotionally as opposed to rationally" as in: 'idiotic posters like Peter here'. I concede I was also guilty of it in my post.

Once again, you presume too much. No one appointed you to presume on my behalf. That's arrogant, don't do it.

For what it's worth, as I wrote earler, I read 'Apple MacBook First Thoughts Review' (twice) shortly after it was posted. I think there were 3 or 4 replies at the time. I didn't post myself because of the reviewer's disclaimers about not having used a Mac for years and being unfamiliar with OS X. However, I had my doubts about the wisdom of posting such a review until he was familiar with the OS because it was bound to lead to red herrings. Because the MacBook is a hot topic, these red herrings were bound to become issues in the review thread.

When I returned to this thread last night my doubts were confirmed. Posters who obviously had never used a Mac or OS X were chasing the red herrings with vigour. Hence my post.

Apologies accepted, backhand and all.

Peter

 

Huh? Apart from the many errors of emphasis made in your postings and plenty of innuendo, many things you stated are factually untrue:

Since October 2003 with the release of Mac OS X 10.3, Mac OS X has had a journaled file system by default. That type of file system obviates errors of the type you mentioned.

First, because of the journaled file system, no manual "cleaning up" should be necessary. Second, single user mode and the use of the fsck command in that environment have been deprecated. Most abnormal system halts will result in automatic check and repair during restart. The recommended way of performaing this manually is to simply trigger a Safe Mode start up, i.e. simply hold down the shift key during restart.

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=107392
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=107393
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=107394

Obviously not, as this very thread in a primarily Windows-oriented site shows...

So would most Mac users. See above.

What "myth?" It is a usefuil--and quick--troubleshooting step.

If they recommend any such thing, it will generally be an Archive and Install, a predefined option in the Mac OS X Installer. The system's settings, preferences, applications, and user files will be preserved.

You more than once stated that you've encountered multiple kernel panics. Such a situation is neither expected nor common. If that had happened to me, I would definitely characterize that as "particularly problematic."

From both personal experience with many recent PowerBooks and MacBooks, as well as observations of other users of the same computers, that is untrue, or at the least, an exaggeration.

I am typing this on a stock G4/400--a desktop machine introduced in September 1999, i.e. almost 7 years ago. It is running fully updated Mac OS X 10.4.6--the latest version of Mac OS X--smoothly and with complete reliability.

I hope your responses in the MacFixit forum were better informed than those you made here.